Open 627: Mexican Standoff [endgame]

[Aneninen]

MAD KING why are you so afraid of getting lynched??? And you say we are trying to LYNCH you for being TOO GOOD??

That was a strange question considering they had had mere two votes on them at that time.

@Ash if we sheep you on tex today will you sheep us on K tomorrow?

Badpost.

VOTE: Anenien
Scum flail 101 Anen.

OMGUS 101, Burning Crystal.
Besides, what sort of flail are you talking about? Earlier Today there had been a bigger wagon on me. Did I flail?

Compare his recent posting to 223 in his YCBA ISO. Both call out those for what he thinks are shitty pushes, but Anen talks about and analyzes the Gamestate as a whole. Here is posting is much more defensive, much like Klingon's. In YCBA he didn't ignore the other wagons forming at all. In fact, he voted wagons of players who weren't suspecting him.

Compare this to Klingon's ISO that game. Klingon responded to nothing but just tried to tear down her attackers and make herself look good. that's what Anen looks to be doing here. He'd have something to say about the substance of MKA's posts if he was town most likely.

~Titus

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!

@aneninen @ash let's go here and get Titus tomorrow when this flips scum

Erm... there was something similar happening before with different names. Also quoted in this post.
What are you doing, Eagle??!

Alright, I felt kinda bad about asking you to change anyways. Sorry.

@mod please replace me

Need

Should not have done so.

Oh and EAGLE. I HAVE voted BURNING CRYSTAL earlier this game.

I AM KUROIXHF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I AM A PIGEON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I have more exclamation marks than you do.

I point out why neither of Almost50's claims can be true and that's useless and not scum hunting?
I ask questions to try to sort people and just because you can't see where I am going with it, it's entirely worthless. Do I have to be "going somewhere" to ask questions?

Is the process bar of your readlist moving?
As it gets ready, I'm all ears.

Less than two days till deadline and fluff is a thing?
I guess it's important to have fun.

We are the Mycon. We respond.

This time, I'm not going to get blinded by thinking that someone who comes around to me easily is town.Comparing Aneninen who is willing to let me live but still uncertain about my alignment to Burning Crystal who is willing to call me obvtown after I say the bodyguard needs to live, I'm more inclined to trust Aneninen. I'm also quite worried about BC's horse trading. It's almost like they're talking up a compromise in thread so as to appear like it isn't coordinated off thread, but I have seen Titus plan a manipulation and this looks similar.

^^
Parrot.

ok i change my mind... this POST by dave is actually very TOWNLIKE,,
MAD KING is still suspicious though, VOTE: MAD KING TEPES

But why?

That said, I have mislynched Titus an awfully large amount of times so I'm wary of voting her at this time and would prefer we vote Texcat.
So, will switch back if necessary since she's not a townread but there's stuff I'd rather do that would be just as informative about her alignment; I really don't think that this is white knighting here considering that she'd lose all potential town cred she'd get for it after having voted him. If Titus is scum, I'd near guarantee that Texcat is scum as well.
So, VOTE: Tex

Whut?

[chilledtea]

I am around 70% through reading everything. My feelings in brief :

Town :

Anenien
Kuroi
Kain
FireStarter
Acroyn (?spelling)
xtoxm (fence)

Difficult read :

Burning Crystal
Mad King

Scum :

Davesaz
Kop
almost50 (fence)

I haven't read much of texcat since where I am he just replaced in but I like him as town for the moment.

[davesaz]

Sorting your slot is going to take you producing a bit more than just a reads list.

[chilledtea]

and my perpetual thorn in my side

Eh, I've definitely said worse about you.
As it happens I'm not scumreading Adenine, though Raskol is, so we're probably not going to vote that unless nothing else can happen.
I greatly agree with Raskol's choice in Tex. What's your read on the slot?

Can someone tell me who this is?

[chilledtea]

After some small research, I am going to assume that is RadiantSomething from Mad King? Yeah hydrae need to stay in hydrae they started the game in otherwise it is difficult.

[chilledtea]

Allright. I have somewhat completely read throught the thread to the best of my capability.

I believe that Kop would be the best person to lynch today. He is my biggest scumread but only because of the way he posted. Some people who I consider town (Anenien, etc) believe he is town because of some posts in which he advises my previous slot owner. Unfortunately I don't consider advice as a town read.

However very few people seem to be on him.

The next best is burning crystal. This is because of the fact that largely she was very difficult to read through the thread, and at the end she changed her mind very quickly during the convo with MKA. I don't like that.

Texcat is also good choice in my opinion, I don't agree with anenien that there is some planned wagon on her.

Dave's convo with almost was very important. I don't consider him town (rather neutral - fence scum) but I am ready to give him space on this Day.
Almost50 went from fence-scum to obv town very quickly in my eyes. Not willing to lynch him.

Mad King Ashnard has picked up and I feel good about them. Between them and BurningCrystal, I would go for BurningCrystal (for lynching).

I get townie vibes from Kuroi but he could be a very good scum player, regardless I see no reason at the moment to go for his lynch.

I got town vibes from acryon earlier in the game and I maintain it. I also got town vibes from xtoxm.

If it wasn't for the exchange between almost and dave, I would have gone for dave lynch. I am not so confident of it now.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Kop

[Xtoxm]

Quick note:

Anen scumread is growing weaker.
I've had Titus as town and I think I still do, but her recent posts are making me sad b/c I can't follow the thought: Calling Dave obvtown when he's objectively scummy, flipping to scumread on Anen based on posts that are having the opposite effect on me
Liking chilled's entrance.
People who have failed to make an impact since the Dave/50 events are becoming more attractive lynch options (kop/kuroi/kt/fs)

I'll find a better vote after sleep.

[Burning Crystal]

Yes. Was there something in particular that you wanted me to comment on?

Yes, what do you think about Kuroi's recent (loss of brain cells / trolling KT)?

As far as I can see in your ISO, you were pushing KT a little bit early game, but then veered away from it. You haven't pushed the case hard enough or interacted with him a great deal to convince others that KT is a good lynch, or got them to agree with you. Similarly I've done the same thing and not pushed a case as hard as I should have, but to be honest, saying KT will be a good lynch, but nobody is agreeing, is all because you may or may not have provided a case for people to go on.

There's one thing saying it, there's another thing doing it.

I'm the one that was for a KT lynch earlier on in the game, not Titus. Nothing ended up happening because I haven't been here much to push for it, and he is no longer the only person I want to go after.

because that is how i always play in TOS becauase people dont listen to me otherwise!!!!!

also I THINK IT MAKES ME UNIQUE...

Some fair advide, it would be wise of you to use proper capitalization and punctuation here. This is a rather more serious community than Town of Salem will ever be. You don't need to shout to get anyone's attention.

The next best is burning crystal. This is because of the fact that largely she was very difficult to read through the thread, and at the end she changed her mind very quickly during the convo with MKA. I don't like that.

I think Titus is overcompensating for how much she usually jumps down RC's throat.

~tn5421

[KainTepes]

WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT ME ANYMORE...

[Burning Crystal]

Because we, as a group, are ignoring you until you type properly.

~tn5421

[Kop]

@Chilled Tea

Could you care to elaborate more on your scum read of me, because the way I posted doesn't give me much of a mean to defend my self too.


[Quote=Chilled Tea]I get townie vibes from Kuroi but he could be a very good scum player, regardless I see no reason at the moment to go for his lynch.[/quote]

You get town vibes, but could be a very good scum player. Is this a fence sitting read? I'm not sure what your trying to achieve with this comment.

[Quote=Chilled Tea]The next best is burning crystal. This is because of the fact that largely she was very difficult to read through the thread, and at the end she changed her mind very quickly during the convo with MKA. I don't like that.[/quote]

Something we agree on.

Burning Crystal is the best option for this day. I don't like this peace keeping offering offer. Yeah (titus head) may have jumped on RC of MKA regularly in the past, but you can't shy away from it in a game where you feel that there is traction, because of previous games. Whatever has happened in previous games, you are following your reads at the end of the day and playing a game.

Is it your fault that he could be giving you a reason to push it? Or something you sense is wrong, you aren't going to push it further? I'm not sure what Titus is trying to achieve, the hachet should be buried after the game is finished, not during another one where she could be possibly correctly guessing her reads. I understand the motive, but not during the process of a game.

She has turned away from the whole thing too softly for my liking.

[Kop]

@Chilled Tea

Could you care to elaborate more on your scum read of me, because the way I posted doesn't give me much of a mean to defend my self too.

I get townie vibes from Kuroi but he could be a very good scum player, regardless I see no reason at the moment to go for his lynch.

You get town vibes, but could be a very good scum player. Is this a fence sitting read? I'm not sure what your trying to achieve with this comment.

The next best is burning crystal. This is because of the fact that largely she was very difficult to read through the thread, and at the end she changed her mind very quickly during the convo with MKA. I don't like that.

Something we agree on.

Burning Crystal is the best option for this day. I don't like this peace keeping offering offer. Yeah (titus head) may have jumped on RC of MKA regularly in the past, but you can't shy away from it in a game where you feel that there is traction, because of previous games. Whatever has happened in previous games, you are following your reads at the end of the day and playing a game.

Is it your fault that he could be giving you a reason to push it? Or something you sense is wrong, you aren't going to push it further? I'm not sure what Titus is trying to achieve, the hachet should be buried after the game is finished, not during another one where she could be possibly correctly guessing her reads. I understand the motive, but not during the process of a game.

She has turned away from the whole thing too softly for my liking.

Fixed quote tags.

[chilledtea]

@Chilled Tea

Could you care to elaborate more on your scum read of me, because the way I posted doesn't give me much of a mean to defend my self too.

I agree that my post was a bit vague regarding you. It is regarding some stuff that happened some time back, and eagle made a case on you.

I got the feeling that he was right. It felt a lot like your posts were empty, some advice to KTepes, to eagle, some possibility regarding theories. To put it simply it didn't feel like as if your contribution to this game is something more than common sense. I am fairly certain that you were also on the wagon on KTepes early on, and to me that feels a bit scummy. That is also the reason for my distrust in dave. Like aneninen put it, "going for the low hanging fruit".

[KainTepes]

WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN PEOPLE CALL ME A LOW HANGING FRUIT THOUGH...

[chilledtea]

The post that I am talking about, where eagle made a case on you is 359

[Kop]

@Chilled Tea

Could you care to elaborate more on your scum read of me, because the way I posted doesn't give me much of a mean to defend my self too.

I agree that my post was a bit vague regarding you. It is regarding some stuff that happened some time back, and eagle made a case on you.

I got the feeling that he was right. It felt a lot like your posts were empty, some advice to KTepes, to eagle, some possibility regarding theories. To put it simply it didn't feel like as if your contribution to this game is something more than common sense. I am fairly certain that you were also on the wagon on KTepes early on, and to me that feels a bit scummy. That is also the reason for my distrust in dave. Like aneninen put it, "going for the low hanging fruit".

I don't think I've ever voted KT, I was suspicious off him, but I've suspected people who have played in the same manner, and it's become an distraction because those have always flipped town. I'd not lynch him for the way he is playing, unless he gives off a tell that he is scum.

There are much better options right now, over KT.

[chilledtea]

As far as kuroi is concerned, I have, for the most part in the game considered him town and he has given me little reason to consider him otherwise. But some people are mentioning that he plays differently according to his meta if he is town, and that was the reason why I said that he could be a really good scum player.

[Kop]

I could but my obvtown reads are pushing Anenenien. Tex is not likely to give us reaction, so he's more of a lynch if there's nothing better to do.

~Titus

So your obvious town reads are pushing a scum read, so that makes you inclined to follow?

And tex is a policy lynch for you if there's nothing better to do?

The judgement that I'm getting from this post, is that Titus does not want to push Texcat, when someone asked her what was her read on Texcat.

[chilledtea]

@Chilled Tea

Could you care to elaborate more on your scum read of me, because the way I posted doesn't give me much of a mean to defend my self too.

I agree that my post was a bit vague regarding you. It is regarding some stuff that happened some time back, and eagle made a case on you.

I got the feeling that he was right. It felt a lot like your posts were empty, some advice to KTepes, to eagle, some possibility regarding theories. To put it simply it didn't feel like as if your contribution to this game is something more than common sense. I am fairly certain that you were also on the wagon on KTepes early on, and to me that feels a bit scummy. That is also the reason for my distrust in dave. Like aneninen put it, "going for the low hanging fruit".

I don't think I've ever voted KT, I was suspicious off him, but I've suspected people who have played in the same manner, and it's become an distraction because those have always flipped town. I'd not lynch him for the way he is playing, unless he gives off a tell that he is scum.

There are much better options right now, over KT.

Actually, the fact that you weren't voting for KT but pushing for him, is exactly what irked eagle. And I agree with him on this case. There was no fear of lynching KT at that point. So voting him/not voting him didn't really matter.
Like I said, it felt like you were trying to manipulate the town into starting the wagon while looking innocent in the process. I am not sure how to put it. I still think you are scum.

[Kop]

As far as kuroi is concerned, I have, for the most part in the game considered him town and he has given me little reason to consider him otherwise. But some people are mentioning that he plays differently according to his meta if he is town, and that was the reason why I said that he could be a really good scum player.

Fair enough. I just felt from that comment, you were withholding a stance, towards that slot.

I've said similar things to that in previous games when I've been scum, when trying to give reads out without really asserting myself to give the impression that I know too much.

I'd like either Burning Crystal, or a Texcat lynch in this scenario. Because there are posts in them slots that I don't agree with, or screams town to me.

[Kop]

@Chilled Tea

Could you care to elaborate more on your scum read of me, because the way I posted doesn't give me much of a mean to defend my self too.

I agree that my post was a bit vague regarding you. It is regarding some stuff that happened some time back, and eagle made a case on you.

I got the feeling that he was right. It felt a lot like your posts were empty, some advice to KTepes, to eagle, some possibility regarding theories. To put it simply it didn't feel like as if your contribution to this game is something more than common sense. I am fairly certain that you were also on the wagon on KTepes early on, and to me that feels a bit scummy. That is also the reason for my distrust in dave. Like aneninen put it, "going for the low hanging fruit".

I don't think I've ever voted KT, I was suspicious off him, but I've suspected people who have played in the same manner, and it's become an distraction because those have always flipped town. I'd not lynch him for the way he is playing, unless he gives off a tell that he is scum.

There are much better options right now, over KT.

Actually, the fact that you weren't voting for KT but pushing for him, is exactly what irked eagle. And I agree with him on this case. There was no fear of lynching KT at that point. So voting him/not voting him didn't really matter.
Like I said, it felt like you were trying to manipulate the town into starting the wagon while looking innocent in the process. I am not sure how to put it. I still think you are scum.

I was pushing him to try get him to open up more, to play the game and actually post with people, rather than explaining himself several times on how he likes to play. It's quite hard to get reads, when someone becomes a distraction because they are playing in a manner where they start playing with ATE. I've already specifically KT isn't going to become a policy lynch because of there game style.

[KuroiXHF]

As far as kuroi is concerned, I have, for the most part in the game considered him town and he has given me little reason to consider him otherwise. But some people are mentioning that he plays differently according to his meta if he is town, and that was the reason why I said that he could be a really good scum player.

I'm probably an amazing scum player, but unfortunately, I don't have a game as scum that I can provide you with. By the way, I'll have an in depth analysis later tonight. I'm at a computer but it's too busy to do it as I'd like.

[acryon]

The following is my stream of consciousness read-through post.

OK, I double checked to verify the result. I'm convinced you ARE a WW, but also a 3 Mafia (GF + 2Goons) would know there's no PGO.
Either way:

VOTE: Mad King Ashnard

Oh goodness...

Ok, someone please explain why we are WW hunting? I am tired and half brain dead.

~Titus

We aren't. Almost50 is almost out of his mind.

I think Almost is actually just really really bad.

I mean I know Almost is just really really bad but I think this is an instance of him being bad rather than scum.

Davesaz is scummier.

Ugh I am worried this might be the case. So many of my games have me torn on people who are just town playing very badly.

Spoiler:

This is why we should restrict fake claims to scum. How are we supposed to sort out whether this is the worst fake claim ever from a townie or a scum claim? Did you consider that you were much more likely to catch a town pr than a werewolf with this claim?

OK. It looks like most of you don't know me well enough, so I did mess it up. But since this is the case there is nothing more I could do wrong, so here it is:

The ONLY PR that could've been outed here would be the PGO themselves. I'm a Weak Bodygaurd. We thus are in scenarios 5, 10 or 12. ALL 12 scenarios have Jailers and Cops, so these would not be outed by my false claim. Furthermore, I know we don't have a Tracker, a BulletProof or a Vig.

I considered claiming a Vig, a Fruit Vendor, a BP & a PGO (note that I didn't specify whether I'm 1 or 2 shots in my clain). This was to take the SK from the picture (SK would know 1-shot PGO doesn't exist but a 2-shot may do).

Now combine the knowledge I had with my chances of survival.

My chances of dying are: 4/12 (targeting a scum randomly) + 2*1/8 (my protected target being targeted for a night kill by either faction) + 2*1/9 (me being targeted for a night kill myself).= 70 % (actually 69.444 %).

So, do I go down silently or do I go down leaving "some" pointers?? I chose the latter. If I'm only 30.56% likely to see the next day I would rather leave you guys with some better knowledge about the setup and who the more likely suspects to flip scum are.

Now lynch away if you will. I've had it with people suspecting me just because I think differently. "More likely to come from scum" is a horrible reason all in and by itself, simply because scum do NOT want or need to (a) put themselves in the spot light, and (b) do as much speculation about the setup this early. The night kills will give them what they need to know.

The spoiler above is just horrible. Any WW would just sit quietly and pretend your claim was real, knowing it wasn't. Why in the world would a WW ever call you out based on your claim not matching the setup?

At this point I am feeling bad-town for Almost and scum for Dave. His post re: not killing the bodyguard reads very bad.

[Kop]

Allright. I have somewhat completely read throught the thread to the best of my capability.

I believe that Kop would be the best person to lynch today. He is my biggest scumread but only because of the way he posted.

Here are some of my scum games.

Open 621
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=64668

Open 614
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=63821

Blitz 6
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=64249

You can go through them, and tell me how my posting is different here in this game, to those games.

[Kop]

The following is my stream of consciousness read-through post.

OK, I double checked to verify the result. I'm convinced you ARE a WW, but also a 3 Mafia (GF + 2Goons) would know there's no PGO.
Either way:

VOTE: Mad King Ashnard

Oh goodness...

Ok, someone please explain why we are WW hunting? I am tired and half brain dead.

~Titus

We aren't. Almost50 is almost out of his mind.

I think Almost is actually just really really bad.

I mean I know Almost is just really really bad but I think this is an instance of him being bad rather than scum.

Davesaz is scummier.

Ugh I am worried this might be the case. So many of my games have me torn on people who are just town playing very badly.

Spoiler:

This is why we should restrict fake claims to scum. How are we supposed to sort out whether this is the worst fake claim ever from a townie or a scum claim? Did you consider that you were much more likely to catch a town pr than a werewolf with this claim?

OK. It looks like most of you don't know me well enough, so I did mess it up. But since this is the case there is nothing more I could do wrong, so here it is:

The ONLY PR that could've been outed here would be the PGO themselves. I'm a Weak Bodygaurd. We thus are in scenarios 5, 10 or 12. ALL 12 scenarios have Jailers and Cops, so these would not be outed by my false claim. Furthermore, I know we don't have a Tracker, a BulletProof or a Vig.

I considered claiming a Vig, a Fruit Vendor, a BP & a PGO (note that I didn't specify whether I'm 1 or 2 shots in my clain). This was to take the SK from the picture (SK would know 1-shot PGO doesn't exist but a 2-shot may do).

Now combine the knowledge I had with my chances of survival.

My chances of dying are: 4/12 (targeting a scum randomly) + 2*1/8 (my protected target being targeted for a night kill by either faction) + 2*1/9 (me being targeted for a night kill myself).= 70 % (actually 69.444 %).

So, do I go down silently or do I go down leaving "some" pointers?? I chose the latter. If I'm only 30.56% likely to see the next day I would rather leave you guys with some better knowledge about the setup and who the more likely suspects to flip scum are.

Now lynch away if you will. I've had it with people suspecting me just because I think differently. "More likely to come from scum" is a horrible reason all in and by itself, simply because scum do NOT want or need to (a) put themselves in the spot light, and (b) do as much speculation about the setup this early. The night kills will give them what they need to know.

The spoiler above is just horrible. Any WW would just sit quietly and pretend your claim was real, knowing it wasn't. Why in the world would a WW ever call you out based on your claim not matching the setup?

At this point I am feeling bad-town for Almost and scum for Dave. His post re: not killing the bodyguard reads very bad.

Well to be fair, WW coming out countering it, is scum claiming the set up wasn't matching.

That's strikingly worrying that he'd call it down that route, but important points to remember. If Almost flips scum further down the game, then surely that would put Dave in a bad light?