Mini 1773 : Symphonic Metal Mafia (Game Over?!)

[Frozen Angel]

Vote Count 1.7

Maestro (3) : SnarkySnowman , Jeanne11 , a plain farmer
Killthestory (3) : KuroiXHF , Aristophanes , Dierfire
Masquerade (1) : Shiro
a plain farmer (1) : nnn_thekushmountains
Jake from State Farm (1) : Wisdom

Not Voting (4) : Jake from State Farm , Killthestory , Masquerade , Maestro

With 13 players alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2016-03-21 20:00:00)

Delain: Stardust

Spoiler: lyrics

Dreamscape in a blanket silver grey
Homesick for a memory washed away
All light in hollow eyes is stardust stardust
Once you learned there is no return to lies
Haven't cried as we left the earth to die
Homesick for a memory in silencing eternally
Bring me to life
Bring me the starlight
Bring me the sun and moon
Release this star tonight
Bring me to life
Bring me the starlight
Bring me the sun and moon
Release this star tonight
Far away in a distant memory
There is lush
There is beat in you and me
Now all blood in a hollow heart is stardust stardust
Washed away
Like your face drawn in the sand
At the edge of the sea is how we end
Painful is the memory
We did it to ourselves!
Awaken me
Bring back my heartbeat
Bring back the warmth of skin
The world we're living in
Bring me to life
Bring me the starlight
Bring me the sun and moon
Release this star tonight
Bring me to life
Bring me the starlight
Bring me the sun and moon
Release this star tonight
Bring me to life
Bring me the starlight
Bring me the sun and moon
Release this star tonight
Bring me to life
Bring me the starlight
Bring me the sun and moon
Release this star tonight

[Wisdom]

Not at all. That's what he said.

[nnn_thekushmountains]

Not at all. That's what he said.

he was talking about reading people due to their stubborness. that's something very specific. you generalized it to scumhunting of all kinds.

[Wisdom]

I don't see how stubbornness is special. It can be read like everything else.

[SnarkySnowman]

L-1 right now. Fastest pre-game wagon and honestly I don't feel like it's undeserved.

Yo, mountains. This is what makes me think votes are serious.

@Snark: Tell me why I deserve L-1, preferably in ten words or less.

Most of the time people who claim Town in RVS/Pre-game turn out to be scum. It's a pattern I've noticed and I like to press it hard when I can.

That said,

Question for those with potentially serious votes: where is the Scum motivation for me / my posts so far?

Why would you assume any of those votes are serious?

This vibed badly, after a vote on a wagon that went to L-1

Downplaying something like that a bit, eh?

Maestro, has scum voted you yet?

Masquerade has not voted me, no.
Other than that, I dunno.

Why masq?

I don't like that Jeanne and Maestro "claimed" VT, even in a for-the-lulz kind of way.

I don't like that you're assuming or implying that I was claiming "for-the-lulz"
I don't think anything I've done so far implies I was claiming "for-the-lulz"

It was a serious claim, in my first post, made out of frustration and because I knew it would give me something to work with RIGHT out of the gate. Tell me where I'm wrong in my train of thought here, and tell me why claiming VT in a Closed Normal Setup is inherently scummy / something that you don't like.

Yeah I'm pretty sure this is scum.


Readlist for the moment:

Town {a plain farmer, killthestory}
Townlean {Kuroi, Masquerade}
Null {Aristo, Shiro, Wisdom, Dierfire, Jake from State Farm}
Scumlean {Jeanne11, nnn_thekushmountains}
Scum {Maestro}

[nnn_thekushmountains]

@snarky
it didn't go to L1.
and it only went to L2 because i put it there. So why would that mean it was serious? RVS votes to L3 aren't serious unless the voter says they are.

So Maestro is scum just because of the vt claim?

[Wisdom]

Maestro is town, so is nnn. Why the townlean on Masquerade?

pedit: @Snarky

[Masquerade]

Ok I feel the need to comment now.

@Maestro: Ok so you claimed for reactions. Please list those reactions (postlinks, quotes, idrc) and tell me what they mean to you. I don't really feel like going through your iso rn to look for scraps.

@Wisdom: I was writing my post when I was reading page 3, then I read 4 and 5 and saw the stuff I said had already been said. I didn't feel like deleting everything again so I decided to post it anyway. And I would do it again because it shows where I stand. Had I not posted it, people might have asked me my opinion on it anyway.
What does faked stubborness look like to you?

Iirc Jeanne has a habit of (fake)claiming stuff as both alignments. I should maybe look into it but Jeanne is not really a priority for me rn.

And what is your priority right now ? Because you also said you would anylise the wagon, which means you found it suspicious, but never really did.

Also I find it quite weird that you have been writing a post for 2 pages as you say. Like worse excuse for repeating stuff ever.

Yeah, I told Aristo already I wasn't going into that rn.

I wasn't writing for 2 pages, I was reading up after sleep. Or do you stay glued at your screen to keep up with every single post that gets posted?

@Snarky: I hope you're not townleaning me because of pre-flip associations. Not really liking that.

Not getting any strong reads on a lot of people yet. Aristo looks towny to me, Jake and Dier as well. Wisdom looks towny as well but I know he's a good player so I don't want to trust him too much too soon. (I know how annoying it is, I'm sorry) Kuroi, had to look at his iso because I didn't remember anything from him, I kind of feel like he's trying to look town. At first it didn't stand out to me but reading his iso it's kinda ugh. So that's a scumlean, but at this time of the Day certainly vote-worthy. Snarky is a slight scumlean. Shiro is meh. Rest is null.

VOTE: Kuroi

[Jake from State Farm]

If that's the case you should roll dice to catch scum because nobody can tell the differences between town and scum things

Exactly, every town tell can be employed by both alignment and every scum tell can be committed by both town and scum. Yet you said you didn't think he was faking. I'm asking how YOU are able to tell the difference.

That's now 2 things you have avoided answering btw. The old me would death tunnel you into oblivion for this but I won't. I'll just add you to my prob scum pile for now.

I'm not voting anyone til I'm fully caught up.

[Wisdom]

You heard the guy, let's roll dices, scumhunting is impossible

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't see how stubbornness is special. It can be read like everything else.

It can't though. Also if you felt this was true you would have answered my question you didn't though.

[Masquerade]

Hi Wisdom.

[Jake from State Farm]

You heard the guy, let's roll dices, scumhunting is impossible

Aww cmon bro. You have played Mafia before this game. you have helped lynched somebody only to be wrong and probably let scum live to the end and lose. Without even going through your games I'm pretty sure almost every experienced player has had this happen to them. Mislynches happen because townies do things that get misinterpreted as scummy behavior. Scum win because scum have manipulated townies into thinking they are town. As much as it sucks yes it's basically a crap shoot most of the time.

My point is though, you say you think his stubbornness isn't faked and when asked how you can tell the difference you balk at the opportunity to explain how you can tell the difference. That's a huge red flag Imo because townoes shouldn't be afraid to communicate their thoughts, especially when asked directly for them. It seems you are afraid to answer for some reason.

[KuroiXHF]

he noticed how fast it was growing, and it was more out of joke than actually starting the wagon.

Maestro is town, at least one person who voted him was scum aligned, I don't expect scum to buss this early.

...eh, I don't buy it. A vote's a vote, especially on a bandwagon.

VOTE: Killthestory

@ Kuroi

Could you explain your vote on Killthestory? I'm not getting it.

Killthestory has found the actions found by some people scummy while others not scummy. When I asked him why, he said that some people aren't scummy if they do something scummy while "joking."

Can you explain this a little more kuroi? I don't understand how what you said explains your vote on maestro.

I'm not sure what you want from me.
Once you learned there is no return to lies
Haven't cried as we left the Earth to die

Keep in mind, it is day one. With that said, scummy is scummy.

[nnn_thekushmountains]

@kuroi
"a vote's a vote"
what isthat referring to?
what aren't you buying?

[Wisdom]

Kuroi you're still voting Killthestory, fix that please

[KuroiXHF]

@kuroi
"a vote's a vote"
what isthat referring to?
what aren't you buying?

If someone votes someone being bandwagonned, that's scummy. Why? Because a vote's a vote and all votes are instrumental in someone's lynch.

Kuroi you're still voting Killthestory, fix that please

Why should I unvote him?

[Wisdom]

Because he's town and there are people who are actually scummy

[nnn_thekushmountains]

ok kuroi i understand.

[a plain farmer]

Killthestory is mostly null for me. However, the way he hands out townreads in 161 pings my gut in a way I can't really articulate.

This from a plain farmer is interesting to me.

@Dierfire

What's behind your Wisdom vote? When I look at his posts, I see someone whose voting exhibits commendable discernment.

I need to make this response on a few levels.

@a plain farmer

1. What was behind my vote on Wisdom (40)? You may consider it RVS if you like. It wasn't fully random, because I didn't want to add my vote to Maestro for L-1, but I had no special reason to choose Wisdom over any other player.

2. What was behind this question? At first, I was going to say that this was a weird question for you to ask because obviously my vote so early in the game was unsupported by any tremendously persuasive reasoning (else I would have shared it). In light of the more recent activity from Wisdom, I was considering that this was an attempt to make my vote look bad retroactively. I then noticed that Wisdom had actually only one more post between my vote and the question (a vote for nnn_thekushmountains in 44). There's more here but actually I'll save myself a few paragraphs.

Could you describe for me your thought process behind asking me that question?

I asked because the reason behind the vote wasn't immediately clear. I suspected it was RVS, but even RVS votes can have a whole spectrum of reasons behind them. I hope this answer isn't too disappointing.

At the end of page 4, got to run but the 2 people I hate the most right now are kill and farmer. Posts just rub me the wrong way.

{Masquerade, Dierfire, Shiro, Jeanne, Jake} is my lynchpool right now, in that order of read strength

It's interesting that Jeanne is ranked higher than Jake here, considering she hasn't posted since confirmation. Is that why your read on her is stronger than that on him?

[Wisdom]

No, it's because she claims like that as scum

[Frozen Angel]

Jeanne11 has been prodded . she has 24 hours to post before I seek for a replacement.

[KuroiXHF]

Because he's town and there are people who are actually scummy

You know better than to assume people to simply take your word for the hell of it. However, I'll vote people if they're scummier. Now tell me, who

is

scummier?

[Dierfire]

In case someone was wondering about what I thought of my interaction with Killthestory...

Overall, my impression is that he is engaged in some form of "reaction test" that is probably not directed at me. I gathered the following facts.

1. He is claiming suspicion of me but not voting for me.
2. His arguments seem less interested in persuading others to vote for me than in expressing tone--that is, the tone is the message.
3. He declined an opportunity to prolong his interaction with me (presumably because he wasn't overly concerned with my reaction).

The best explanation that I have for his behavior from a Town perspective is that he is sorting for associative tells, although the exact method is unclear to me. As (almost) everyone had a chance to post since then, I believe that he will have obtained sufficient material to share with us.
The best explanation that I have for his behavior from a Mafia perspective is that he is trying to be perceived as an aggressive/impatient/confident Town player. That is, I do not feel that he is a Mafia player trying to get me (specifically) lynched.

[Frozen Angel]

It was not until 2001 that Within temptation became known to the general public, with the single "Ice Queen" from their second album Mother Earth, which reached No. 2 on the Dutch charts. This was followed by the band winning the Conamus Exportprijs, a Dutch music award, four years in a row. Their next albums The Silent Force (2004) and The Heart of Everything (2007) debuted at No. 1 on the Dutch charts. In 2008, they released a live DVD and CD, Black Symphony, recorded with the Metropole Orchestra. This was followed in 2009 by An Acoustic Night at the Theatre, another live album.