Mini 1769: Ice Cream Mafia - Game over!

[SirCakez]

Votecount 1.11

Keyser Soze (4) - Thor665, GuyFawkes, BlueBloodedToffee, Boonskies
Ircher (3) - Titus, KainTepes, massive
BlueBloodedToffee (3) - Keyser Soze, Ircher, Aquanim
Titus (2) - popsofctown, TellTaleHeart
Boonskies (1) - Slandaar

Not voting (0)

(expired on 2016-03-13 08:31:00) remain until day end

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Prodge.

Will be here when I can.

[massive]

Why else would scum Ircher want to start a counterwagon?
Fear of BBT?
Belief that BBT is a PR and Keyser is not?
Belief that the Keyser wagon will go through regardless and will look bad if he's on it?
Not wanting to contradict a previous statement about Keyser= town?

I think that's about the list, do any of the, fit for you in a Ircher scum narrative?

I don't think he can toss away his Keyser Soze "STRONG townread" without losing any semblance of townread he may have generated. He was heavily resistant to the Keyser wagon initially, and he obviously isn't going to jump to the actual counterwagon (himself) -- so yes, the last one does fit Ircherscum. At some point, he may feel compelled to move onto Keyser just for self-preservation, but I think he has time to try out a third wagon.

[Slandaar]

Also, this is Town BBT....he's just not active. Like holy fuck.

Why are you so sure this is town BBT?

[KainTepes]

AQUANIM SUDDENLY SAY I AM TOWN???? I THOUGHT YOU WANTED TO LYNCH ME EARLIER,,

VOTE: AQUANIM

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll make this priority tomorrow.

[Ircher]

@BBT My vote stays til you give us a solid, town-motivated reason to be pushing Keyser, I have seen no town motives from you.

[Ircher]

Also, why am I a counterwagon to KS? Certainly, all the votes except Massive's were left over from OceanWind. I have yet to see anyone put together a case stating I'm scum, so it is rather strange I am still being voted.

Wait, Kein changed his vote, but @Titus -- Why is your vote still on me?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't care about your vote.

You're probably scum.

[KainTepes]

BBT why is IRCHER PROBABLY SCUM???

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ocean was scummy.

I haven't read any of Irchers posts, but still, probably scum.

[Aquanim]

So it's a case based on a matter of degrees then. That's always going to be a harder sell.

Nobody said the game was easy.

Outside of the opinion part "interesting"
I would note that "detailed" is a bit of a playstyle issue, and "few other" is a degree - how many pinions does he need to offer to be not scummy?

He is assuredly offering some on a fair slate of players, often unasked

- to my mind that is not a calculated plan to avoid giving reads, or if it is, then it's clever enough to fool me...and also obligated to still give reads to mask not giving...other...reads?

The few reads he has offered are not convincing me that BBT is seriously assessing this game in an effort to find scum.

Yes, except for mentioning the light of the sun, he did not mention the sun, and he could have talked about the heat of the sun, or the rotation of it but didn't.
This is nitpicky, isn't it?

There's a pattern between both Kain and the Masquerade slot of BBT sticking with a superficial argument to townread them and not discussing the meat of the cases being made against those players.

I also feel like you're trying to sell your case on associatives, correct me if I'm wrong, but if I conclusively proved that Kain was town (or maybe that Boon was) it would put a big hole in your case on BBT, yes?
Doesn't that concern you as far as your reason for pushing the slot?

No - I think that BBT might well not be comfortable talking about Kain even if Kain is town. Boonskiies' alignment isn't relevant to anything I've said about BBT, why do you think it is?

[Slandaar]

You know I shall respond to you Thor.

For #2 - do you think Pheonix as town always "does something" and, I would add, slots that replace out generally do nothing before they replace out - generally that's why they need replacement.
#3 - Is there meta attached to this, like, when scum he ignores you?

2. He did not replace for activity reasons. I would like to think he does something as town.
3. I see no town reason for it. I see some reasons for scum to.

Point 1 was the best though I assume you found said post and agree?

[Aquanim]

AQUANIM SUDDENLY SAY I AM TOWN???? I THOUGHT YOU WANTED TO LYNCH ME EARLIER,,

VOTE: AQUANIM

Where do you think I said this?

[KainTepes]

i was reading your ISO,, i saw you said TOWN KAIN many times, and you said IF I CAN PROVE TO YOU KAIN IS TOWN or something,,

VERY SUSPICIOUS THAT YOU CHANGED YOUR VIEW,,

[KainTepes]

you also STOPPED voting for me

[Ircher]

Ocean was scummy.

I haven't read any of Irchers posts, but still, probably scum.

This was part of my case against you -- On purposely not reading the thread. So, apparently, I'm scum cuz of my predecessor & not only have you not, but you are also unwilling to review my posts cuz I'm scum? That's a logically fallancy actually. Quite frankly, I think we should lynch BBT for stating this, there is ZERO town motive behind this post.

[Aquanim]

@Massive and Titus

: your thoughts on BBT?

[KainTepes]

dont IGNORE me......

[Ircher]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=ORLYScum

BBT is using this logically fallancy against me.

[KainTepes]

that wiki page is really WEIRD....

[popsofctown]

Yeah I'm not voting Tepes today, the cow is too cute.

[GuyFawkes]

I could see a keyser/ircher scum team. I'm fine with lynching either one

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Mini 1769 Thoughts - D1 #3

1. Noting that Boonskiies replaced Phoenix (740)

2. Boon expresses a townread of BBT for.... meta reasons(?) in 741. Proceeds to tht "you bumble bees will probably make up reasons to want to push him." -

Show me this "town BBT" read you have. Also, show me where the reasons presented against him have scum-motivation.

3.

I think I'm liking where 746 is headed.... Let's see... The counter against Thor's claim that BBT isn't tunneling is definitely valid.

4. My thoughts on Keyser & Thor - actively trying to scumhunt & get reads - as stated in third section of 748 -

Let's take a step back & review the 2 main cases worth noting: Keyser & BBT

The Keyser case is mainly about the fact that despite Keyser's heavy posting, his posts are empty and don't lead anywhere. A supplementary reason is the number of null reads Keyser has expressed.

The BBT case is mainly about BBT's tunnel on Keyser. Unlike other tunnels, etc. conducted on Keyser, the BBT tunnel seems scum-motivated. A supplementary element of the case is the intense skimming/lack of reading that is being done by BBT.

Now, that was as unbiased as I can I sum it up. So, tell me,

Is there a whole bunch different to the main reason of both cases? I think not. So, why then is the Keyser wagon not equally as great as the BBT wagon?

That's a question from an unbiased perspective. From a biased stance, I'd say the BBT wagon is better supported by the facts.

5. Keyser is using AtE and possibly Appeal to Majority (?) in 749 -

Not necessarily alignment indicative

6.

@Thor in 750

-

Do us all a favor and stop acting like you are omnipotent and omnifiscent -- YOU AREN'T THE GOD OF MAFIA -- And, I am not the only one who feels this way. Keyser obviously does. I'm pretty sure Aqua is getting annoyed by you. As is prob. everyone else in this game.

7. Also

@Thor in regards to 750 -

According to the wiki, tunneling = Confirmation Bias. Whether that is alignment indicative by itself is not important, what is is the underlying motives. Again, just please stop like your a know-it-all & everyone should play mafia YOUR way.

8. @GuyFawkes in 771 about the BBT case at least as good as the Keyser case -

It's all about motive. I will be honest and admit that both cases have some major flaws that no one has really addressed. That's why the comparison is made, based on the objective material, both cases are fairly equal. It's when we add in bias that makes the diff. between my thoughts on BBT versus my thoughts on Keyser. Also, I have town meta with Keyser, so that also affects my view.

9. In 776, BBT states "Prodge" (not a typo). -

That literally sounds like Prod+Dodge combined. Whether it was intention, I'm not sure. But prod-dodging is def. anti-town and possibly scum-motivated.

10.

Massive, you are making zero sense this game. Did you roll scum again, and since you know I am pretty easy to lynch early or pretty easy to lynch late, you're trying to use that to your advantage? What does a counterwagon have to do with my townread of Keyser? Also, you imply one thing in 777: I don't strongly townread Keyser like I say I do. That is false. My townread has been consistent. Start reading and stop bring up reasons that have no logic or evidence behind them to lynch me.

11. 785 - BBT admits he's not reading my spoilered stuff and is solely basing his read of me on his thoughts of my predecessor -

That alone could be a case against BBT -- I see zero town motivation in that post.

Yeah, still want the BBT lynch. Also like how Thor finally shut up -- he was acting as bad town.

[Ircher]

I could see a keyser/ircher scum team. I'm fine with lynching either one

Aside from the pre-flip association case with Keyser, what makes you think I'm scum?