Mini 1769: Ice Cream Mafia - Game over!

[SirCakez]

Votecount 1.12

Keyser Soze (4) - Thor665, GuyFawkes, BlueBloodedToffee, Boonskies
BlueBloodedToffee (3) - Keyser Soze, Ircher, Aquanim
Ircher (2) - Titus, massive
Titus (2) - popsofctown, TellTaleHeart
Boonskies (1) - Slandaar
Aquanim (1) - KainTepes

Not voting (0)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2016-03-13 08:31:00) remain until day end

[Slandaar]

Not sure how it indicates you are buddies. The argument is purely against Kain. He could just be scum trying to mislynch you and copied others reasoning.

I am intrigued now though. Lets assume you are town. You don't find it suspicious that he posted what he did, when he did?

[popsofctown]

Keyser, you should sheep me, I'm real gud at mafia.

[Keyser Söze]

Look at my extensive ISO on KainTepes.

If it isn't on there we can add it now.

"Unsupported/unexplained scum read #35"

[popsofctown]

I wouldn't mind seeing you lynched.

I haven't been super closely following everything this game, but man. Expressing that thought with that exact word choice seems scummy in like every context.

[popsofctown]

Mod: Can you do the traditional "with X players in the game it will take Y votes to lynch" thingamajigabob in your votecounts

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Too many vanity wagons.

Icky. Will catch up on this when I get home tonight.

[Keyser Söze]

Too many vanity wagons.

Icky. Will catch up on this when I get home tonight.

Look forward to it - I honestly think only you will be able to talk me off your wagon.

@Slandaar

@Slandaar

- yes or no to the

BBT

/Keyser lynch?

@Slandaar - what's your position on the

BBT

/Keyser slots?

What is your position on BBT?

One last try - your thoughts on BBT, please.


Moreover, your thoughts on these observations:

Spoiler: Any scum-alignment indicative points in here, or more empty waffle from me?

Boonskiies shares some town/scum reads. Don't know how he got them though: (post 481).

Calls me "holy Keyscum Soze" - I expect pressure/questions, which I never get.

Meh. Why not?

VOTE: Keyser

Another dissatisfying reason/vote on my wagon. I'm still not understanding his strong scum read on me ("holy Keyscum Soze") - but he's not trying to share his scum-read/reasons of me to anyone, why not? He should be proud of it, if his read is strong.

Looks like you've just gotten irritated that you are caught out as scum and really don't have many reasons why.

I would never had described the argument/reason on me as "caught out as scum".

And immediately after, you target GuyFawkes, who was just tied with 2nd biggest wagon a couple of pages back. Easy wagon to manipulate onto.

Boonskiies believes I am opportunistic wagon jumping. Does this mean Boonskiies town-reads GuyFawkes? Noted.

I have a paranoia of TTH, but I don't want to delve into that right now. Nothing she's doing is scummy to me or anything. I actually like her input. I'm just....aaah. I never know how to deal with her.

I don't know what this is saying - but let's keep our eyes on TTH(?)

Talks to KainTepes about the possible opportunistic scum on his wagon:

It's probably Keyser and TTH.

But then a moment later open to lynch KainTepes

with

TTH:

Nah, I'm down to lynch Kain with you if you want.

Nah, that's not right.

Boonskiies slips into the

'not feeling much town vibes'

pile.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Keyser, I don't plan on talking you out of anything.

I can't convince scum I'm town. You already know that.

[SirCakez]

Mod: Can you do the traditional "with X players in the game it will take Y votes to lynch" thingamajigabob in your votecounts

Will add them.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser, I don't plan on talking you out of anything.

I can't convince scum I'm town. You already know that.

You need to convince us you're town and not scum. That's the game, otherwise our votes will stay on you. There are 3 votes on you. Tell us where those 3 votes should be instead. Just make sure you do this "talking" before the weekend.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah, I'm good.

I'll just give my thoughts on the game and whoever is town on my wagon will realise I'm town, unvote, and then scum will follow suit.

Easy game.

[Thor665]

Well please move on from your bloody errors and corrections and state your Smurfing

current read of BBT and said reasons

. I don't want to waste time cleaning up your Smurf and wiping your Smurf thank you.

I'm just trying to understand why you aren't reading the game.
I don't need you to clean up my play, I'm trying to clean yours up enough to understand you.
Currently I'm understanding you're scum.

Show me "obvious"/strong" town-BBT and I will unvote.

It's as simple as that. I don't want to argue over Smurfing words.

When did I ever ask you to unvote anyone?
I don't care if you want to vote BBT - more power to you.

I don't see how it weakens anything. That could be how he plays normally but you can say that about anything without extensive meta which clearly isn't always feasible.

Yeah, but your call against him is hardly unique. I could list half the player list and apply the same tell to them, so why vote him and not them?

It's all about context.

Okay, what was the context of him not interacting with you that makes him scummy?

Didn't even look.

You are putting effort into finding scum I see.

Says the guy not doing meta research?
Meh - we all do effort in our own ways...well, some of us do effort in our own ways. I saw no reason to backtrack research a case as seemingly unsupported and uninteresting as yours. Get more votes on it and I'd pay it more mind. At the moment it is easy to ignore - the only reason it's being talked about currently is because I', poking you about it.

Too many vanity wagons.

I call vanity wagons 1 vote wagons - what do you mean when you say it?
Because to my mind we have three valid wagons and one vanity.

[popsofctown]

A "vanity wagon" is when people aren't sheeping me.

[Thor665]

I should steal that definition.

[Keyser Söze]

I'll just give my thoughts on the game

Deal

you aren't reading the game

I am reading. What you perceive as me not reading is me disagreeing with you.

I don't need you to clean up my play

Deal. Because I've got blisters and a sore back shoveling it all, and now I want to concentrate on my null/scum-reads.

Currently I'm understanding you're scum.

That is what I keep reading, but I do not see any scum-alignment indicative reasons to support that understanding. Nor do I expect to see any. Only KainTepes (post 465) and your predecessor, mn (post 187) has presented a logical argument.

I don't care if you want to vote BBT

If someone is scum-reading my town-read, I tell them why I am town-reading them. If someone is town-reading my scum-read, I tell them why I am scum-reading them. I.e you

should care

about where everybody puts their vote and unvote. I don't know what your game theory book says, but we lynch on the majority of votes. Every vote matters.

A "vanity wagon" is when people aren't sheeping me.

...and popsofctown scores a Hat-trick!

[Keyser Söze]

I wouldn't mind seeing you lynched.

I haven't been super closely following everything this game, but man. Expressing that thought with that exact word choice seems scummy in like every context.

I read it as

brutal town-honesty

. Not blatent scum-opportunism.

I see he scum-reads Boonskiies and KainTepes, but he keeps seeing my name popping around their ISO's, so I read this as healthy town-paranoia. I admittedly don't like him watching my wagon on the sidelines, chipping in with his support for it, but that's pure OMGUS on my part.

Thus, I think Slandaar thinks my flip will give some resolution or extra conviction with his Boonskiies/KainTepes scum-reads. It's short-sighted, but it's Day One. He won't realise it's short-sighted until I flip green.

Thoughts?

[Thor665]

If someone is scum-reading my town-read, I tell them why I am town-reading them. If someone is town-reading my scum-read, I tell them why I am scum-reading them. I.e you should care about where everybody puts their vote and unvote. I don't know what your game theory book says, but we lynch on the majority of votes. Every vote matters.

That is true, every vote matters.
But that BBT wagon doesn't, and negotiating with scum to unvote a slot I am not strong town reading is hardly in my top ten list of things to do this week.
You're blowing a lot of smoke trying to pick a fight about something I never indicated I cared about and then acting peeved that I don't care about it - it's weird.

[Keyser Söze]

negotiating with scum to unvote a slot

Here's your problem summed up in 3 words:

"negotiating with scum"

. You are a victim of confirmation bias. You need to realise that you could be wrong, and accpet the fact you need to talk/negotiate with both your town, null and scum reads. The self-conceit that runs through your veins and permeates your posts has been a delight to witness! Master Yoda wants to add one more thing... "negotiate with all players, try you must. Anti-town play leads to anger. Anger leads to bad town play. Bad town play leads to suffering.” Wise words.

trying to pick a fight about something I never indicated I cared about

I felt your defence/town-read of BBT was something you cared about. I cared about it especially because I scum-read BBT, and want you to explain in detail your thoughts. I could be totally wrong about BBT, so I'm open for others to discuss why I am wrong. But talking to you, I feel like I am up against a wall.

[Boonskiies]

What's the case on Ircher? I'm trying not to do pre-flip associations, but I'm putting all my thoughts together for tomorrow for both sides, depending if Keyser's flips scum or town. I'm leaning more towards the scum, but it's day 1. Large room for error. I despise day 1's, not my strongest day. I really have no clue what to try and analyze until after.

[popsofctown]

I don't think it's a dishonest statement. It's a statement that is true that does not originate from a townie most of the time. It's very rare when I draw town that there is any lynch, ever, that I "don't mind". I either crave or hate most lynches.

I guess that's empirical and personality wise someone might be different. If you don't play with conviction you'll have a scummy meta though.

[Keyser Söze]

What's the case on Ircher? I'm trying not to do pre-flip associations, but I'm putting all my thoughts together for tomorrow for both sides, depending if Keyser's flips scum or town. I'm leaning more towards the scum, but it's day 1. Large room for error. I despise day 1's, not my strongest day. I really have no clue what to try and analyze until after.

I think this post by massive made me 'moderately' paranoid regarding Ircher:

Ircher (his replacement) isn't catching up, except enough for a

STRONG townread

on Keyser,

is voting a null read

, but still wants

to make sure his ducks are in a row for when Keyser is ultimately lynched

.

VOTE: Ircher

In regard to "pre-flip associations" via my slot, yes, you'd need to lynch me before lynching Ircher IMO. But I do not support D1 pre-flip associations-lynches funnily enough

I will look at his posts later tonight.

[Boonskiies]

Mm...I believe Ircher's just generally inactive right now. He's a newer player who's just taking a stance.

[Keyser Söze]

I don't think it's a dishonest statement. It's a statement that is true that does not originate from a townie most of the time. It's very rare when I draw town that there is any lynch, ever, that I "don't mind". I either crave or hate most lynches.

I guess that's empirical and personality wise someone might be different. If you don't play with conviction you'll have a scummy meta though.

Hmm... I'd personally put info-lynches in the "I don't mind" category, but I agree that I personally work on the ''comfortable/uncomfortable" scale too.

Do you think it was a stupid comment to make (either alignment)?

Mm...I believe Ircher's just generally inactive right now. He's a newer player who's just taking a stance.

I agree with the sentiment of most of his oberservations, except for the 'scum-reading-BBT-for-posting "prodge"' - that was a bit reachy and funny. But I'll take a closer look later. In my last game together with him, his observations were very accurate and impressive, but the more experienced players ignored him.

[Boonskiies]

I should probably meta dive him. My last game with him he tended to sheep everywhere.