Mini 1763 - Game OV

[Ircher]

Makes most sense for scum to split & not all be on the same wagon. I wouldn't lynch someone on it alone tho

[MarioManiac4]

Makes most sense for scum to split & not all be on the same wagon. I wouldn't lynch someone on it alone tho

see, whenever i'm scum i don't think about being on wagons with my buddies.
And i've never seen anyone else do so either.

[Not_Mafia]

Votecount 2.03

MarioManiac4 (3) - KainTepes, Garmr, Boonskiies
Katsuki (2) - droog, Performer
Soapbar (1) - MarioManiac4
Performer (1) - Katsuki

Not Voting (4) - Soapbar, Ircher, Not_Mafia, Lapsa

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-03-21 21:40:38)

Current VC:

NotMafia (1) : Ircher
MM (4) : Kein, Gamr, Boon, Perf
Kat (1) : Droog
Soap (1) : Mario
Perf (1) : Kat

Not Voting (3) : Lapsa, Soap, !Mafia

Right now, I would say that 1 scum not voting, 1 scum voting mm, and 1 scum voting someone else:

{Kein, Gamr, Boon, Perf}
{Lapsa, Soap, Not Mafia}
{Ircher, Droog, Mario, Kat}

This is completely arbitrary guesswork

[Performer]

and 5th spot on mario wagon is quite juicy

I don't see why people think wagon spots are alignment indicative. Of the several tools we can use in scumhunting, the "when" isn't alignment indicative to me.

Mario's 714 logic for voting Soap was very odd. Boon’s 718 made sense from a town pov, in voting Mario. Mario’s 724 about Lapsa possibly fakeclaiming so that Soap is probably not scum, it sounds to me he's bending Lapsa's talk about the supposed guilty claim and PR claim. Lapsa, dude...lol. You are TWISTED for your fake claims. For a moment, I thought you were truth claiming a guilty on Soap but if that was the case, we'd have lynched him by now.
I bet you fake claim in your scum games too? Lol.
Then all this talk from Mario about an SK…which makes no sense in this game, based on 1 nk of the Town Vigilante and having 13 players.
VOTE: Mario
L-1

HOW WAS IT "VERY ODD"? If you're going to call my points "odd" and "horrible" you could at least try to explain why. And Boon just said "i dont like his push on soap." How is that in any way a point against me?
And what exactly in my 724 would you call incorrect?

714 - It was odd in that you stated if Soap flipped town, Lapsa would be scum. I find the latter hard to believe after seeing what I saw on d2 from Lapsa. Boon was thinking the same I was - that it looked scummy in your logic on Soap .
As for 724, it looked to be you were answering for Lapsa, before asking him about that weird move.

[Performer]

@Mario have you played with Lapsa before
It's not looking like you have..?

[Garmr]

@garm what are your reads?

to be honest I am having trouble with this game but

mario rings scummy to me just from gut feel.

performer seem pretty scummy espically how performer put katsuki to l-1 then posted some bullshit about me naked voting ira when I had shown I had a scum read on ira and I was the biggest factor to a ira lynch i will admit.


Ircher seems like a town but I pretty much disagree with everything he has being saying today. It's all extremely sloppy.


I thought kat and boon were masons but now they probably aren't I still don't think they are scummy through after reading.

I got a few null because I can't work some slots

but this

MarioManiac4- Confirmed town, by way of Role PM.

Performer- Mainly POE. There are too many people that are null-scum for me to consider this slot. And he tends to be more friendly as scum from my experience with being scum+town with him.
Ircher- After replacing in for RC (who I won't pretend to be able to read) he comes in with a decent catchup. His fustration at his reads being ignored is town; instead of just being like "Oh my reads are being ignored what a shame this means i'll be able to hide behind them lololol" he's like "OH, HOW ABOUT YOU READ MY POSTS BECAUSE I WANT SCUM TO GET LYNCHED." And unlike scum, he doesn't let it go.
KainTepes- i think I buy his playstyle, and he seems to play like this all the time. That being said I don't really like his persistence on my mislynch wagon...

KainTepes- i think I buy his playstyle, and he seems to play like this all the time. That being said I don't really like his persistence on my mislynch wagon...
Boonskiies- I think his turn on me was too blatant to be scum, really- with one scum outed scum would be a LOT more careful than he is. Again, I want him to explain what about the Soapbar push changed his mind.

Lapsa- This is outside the scope of a normal read.

If we do not lynch Soapbar today, I 100% refuse to take Lapsa as conf town.

Especially if scum don't kill him (even if he claims roleblocked.) Otherwise, he's probably up with Performer and Ircher.

Not_Mafia- Null, is going to be very hard to read.
droog- I didn't have an opinion on IL and this guy comes in and just defends Lapsa. I can see this as scum especially if Lapsa is town. Right now I'd like to see if he has an opinion on current events.
Katsuki- Null, is going to be very hard to read.

Garmr- Reacts in a weird and unprovoked way when attacked- "you can go fck yourself because im town" is a bit weird for a town who knows mislynches happen and is more likely from someone who has something to hide.

Soapbar- Basically a known mafioso who we refuse to lynch. There's probably scum influence in that and I'm not going to completely rule out a Soap!town Lapsa!scum scenario in which Lapsa refuses to lynch Soap intil LYLO to get a scum win.

I doubt that mario is actually so horrible at this game to actually think performer would be town. Even if he did he wouldn't rate performer so high in his reads list and he gives a bs reasoning. Heaps of null-scum reads would generally indicate that one is scum and that the fact it's hard to lynch them would do with scum intervention.

[MarioManiac4]

and 5th spot on mario wagon is quite juicy

I don't see why people think wagon spots are alignment indicative. Of the several tools we can use in scumhunting, the "when" isn't alignment indicative to me.

Mario's 714 logic for voting Soap was very odd. Boon’s 718 made sense from a town pov, in voting Mario. Mario’s 724 about Lapsa possibly fakeclaiming so that Soap is probably not scum, it sounds to me he's bending Lapsa's talk about the supposed guilty claim and PR claim. Lapsa, dude...lol. You are TWISTED for your fake claims. For a moment, I thought you were truth claiming a guilty on Soap but if that was the case, we'd have lynched him by now.
I bet you fake claim in your scum games too? Lol.
Then all this talk from Mario about an SK…which makes no sense in this game, based on 1 nk of the Town Vigilante and having 13 players.
VOTE: Mario
L-1

HOW WAS IT "VERY ODD"? If you're going to call my points "odd" and "horrible" you could at least try to explain why. And Boon just said "i dont like his push on soap." How is that in any way a point against me?
And what exactly in my 724 would you call incorrect?

714 - It was odd in that you stated if Soap flipped town, Lapsa would be scum. I find the latter hard to believe after seeing what I saw on d2 from Lapsa. Boon was thinking the same I was - that it looked scummy in your logic on Soap .
As for 724, it looked to be you were answering for Lapsa, before asking him about that weird move.

1. yes, i believe that if we lynch a player who A has claimed a guilty on, and they flip town, we should lynch A tomorrow.
2.WHATWHATWHATWHATWHAT
CONTEXT IS IMPORTANT
I was showing Boon the guilty. Are you just making up reasons to scumread me?
And no, this is my first time playing with Lapsa.

pedit: lol garmr lol

[Performer]

If we do not lynch Soapbar today, I 100% refuse to take Lapsa as conf town.

mario, why such stubborness?

don't you agree that's a viable path to take?

what exactly lies beneath 'i 100% refuse to take Lapsa as conf town' ?

is that == lapsa conf scum?

would you change your mind in case soap flips scum later on?

basically;
you are not conftown from my point of view. if we lynched two non-soapbars today and tommorow, and you were like "ok lol lylo i'm gonna lynch soapbar" I would powerlynch you with prejudice. It's certainly a new playstyle as scum but it makes sense. If you refuse to lynch your guilty, we can never know you are town. And if you don't get nightkilled...
well.

@ircher; why do you believe that, or were those numbers just pulled out of thin air?

Ok. The scum half of Mario's readslist, I'll get to in a bit.
But this post of Mario's, along with his readslist and seemingly reasonable engagement with Lapsa , I see where he's coming from in pushing on Soap and Lapsa now.
VOTE: Soapbar
Typically I'd call someone fake claiming to be scum but then there was talk about how Lapsa was kidding. I think Mario has an excellent point about Soap and that we can look at Lapsa more in the following day, if Soap flips town.
----
@Mario alright. Is this also your first time playing with Ircher?
I have meta on Lapsa as well as Ircher and I believe I can read them fairly well. Ircher has less experience than many folks and he has his own way of posting, which looks odd. Also, Ircher does something I did often back in the day - he wants to use up as much time as possible before lynching, and is adverse to putting people at L-2 or L-1. Fortunately after my recent game with him and something ongoing, it looks like he is improving.
-----
Note: catching up on older posts , then addressing newer ones

[Performer]

For the skeptics about wagoning Soap - take a look at his ISO. The only votes he made are on 3 Townies - FA, Ira, Perf.
I find it difficult to think he's town based on his ISO.

[Garmr]

For the skeptics about wagoning Soap - take a look at his ISO. The only votes he made are on 3 Townies - FA, Ira, Perf.
I find it difficult to think he's town based on his ISO.

Counting yourself as town on that list is pretty bad since that is most likely his bus vote it's like your trying to use his votes to make yourself look town instead of trying to find scum.

[Performer]

The Case of Soap

Voted ira in d1 on post 74

Soap lurked and posted only 44 times in this game (flying under the radar via lurking). Take a look at that one and you'll see it's resembling this one - he was scum in that game:

forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=64581&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select[]=27091&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go

He was also ok with lynching FA or me, two people who're making sense and responding to terrible votes against us (RC/Boon/Not Mafia/Katsuki) .

In d1, he mentioned people on my wagon, were reaching.
Then 4 days later out of nowhere, he made the opposite decision by voting me. He sheeped the same reason Katsuki gave. Along with an indecisive 325 and other unsubstantial posts like criticizing my post (without engaging me on it) and telling people to kiss in 348, I don't foresee moving my vote on d2. This is whopping evidence.
-----
On a related note, with further thought into the Soapbar subject - I see why Lapsa thought Mario could be bussing his buddy. I don't believe I'll be voting either of those 2 today though , as they're both townreads of mine now. And before anyone thinks the 3 of us are Masons, you've gotta be kidding me.

[MarioManiac4]

The Case of Soap

Voted ira in d1 on post 74

Soap lurked and posted only 44 times in this game (flying under the radar via lurking). Take a look at that one and you'll see it's resembling this one - he was scum in that game:

forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=64581&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select[]=27091&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go

He was also ok with lynching FA or me, two people who're making sense and responding to terrible votes against us (RC/Boon/Not Mafia/Katsuki) .

In d1, he mentioned people on my wagon, were reaching.
Then 4 days later out of nowhere, he made the opposite decision by voting me. He sheeped the same reason Katsuki gave. Along with an indecisive 325 and other unsubstantial posts like criticizing my post (without engaging me on it) and telling people to kiss in 348, I don't foresee moving my vote on d2. This is whopping evidence.

There's a claimed guilty.
-----
On a related note, with further thought into the Soapbar subject - I see why Lapsa thought Mario could be bussing his buddy. I don't believe I'll be voting either of those 2 today though , as they're both townreads of mine now. And before anyone thinks the 3 of us are Masons, you've gotta be kidding me.

FTFY

[Performer]

For the skeptics about wagoning Soap - take a look at his ISO. The only votes he made are on 3 Townies - FA, Ira, Perf.
I find it difficult to think he's town based on his ISO.

Counting yourself as town on that list is pretty bad since that is most likely his bus vote it's like your trying to use his votes to make yourself look town instead of trying to find scum.

No...Garmr, if you've played enough with me, you'll know I'm one of those folks who doesn't manipulate his meta easily. I will defend myself and can get tough against folks who scumread me when I'm town. Throw all the shade you want, but I want to see you scumhunt others too. You've been voting others who've voted others, and you've consistently scumread me from d1 to d2 - yes, I've been keeping track.

I

have

seen 2 of your town games before though and you seem to have potential. But from what I've been seeing in this game, I'm going to put you from townread to null, which is something that's very uncomfortable (null people are hard-to-read people in my book, which can mean they are scum).

I doubt that mario is actually so horrible at this game to actually think performer would be town. Even if he did he wouldn't rate performer so high in his reads list and he gives a bs reasoning.

Mario has even moderated a game of mine where I was 1-shot Town Neighborizer. He has extensive experience with my meta as town and we were scum in 1 game (interesting fact: that was my 2nd game on this site and I was terrible and never cared about improving my scum game LOL).

[Performer]

The Case of Soap

Voted ira in d1 on post 74

Soap lurked and posted only 44 times in this game (flying under the radar via lurking). Take a look at that one and you'll see it's resembling this one - he was scum in that game:

forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=64581&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&user_select[]=27091&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go

He was also ok with lynching FA or me, two people who're making sense and responding to terrible votes against us (RC/Boon/Not Mafia/Katsuki) .

In d1, he mentioned people on my wagon, were reaching.
Then 4 days later out of nowhere, he made the opposite decision by voting me. He sheeped the same reason Katsuki gave. Along with an indecisive 325 and other unsubstantial posts like criticizing my post (without engaging me on it) and telling people to kiss in 348, I don't foresee moving my vote on d2. This is whopping evidence.

There's a claimed guilty.
-----
On a related note, with further thought into the Soapbar subject - I see why Lapsa thought Mario could be bussing his buddy. I don't believe I'll be voting either of those 2 today though , as they're both townreads of mine now. And before anyone thinks the 3 of us are Masons, you've gotta be kidding me.

FTFY

Mario will you stay alive with me into LyLo this game? I was hoping FA would too
People typically kill me by night 3, at latest. They don't want to leave me alive because when I'm alive into later stages, we end up dwindling down the scum team to the point that I never lost in the last day of a game where I was town. Aka my game with implosion/I am Innocent/RadiantCowbells vs Firebringer/Xtoxm/Espeonage, and the game with Albert B. Rampage/Titus/SilverWolf/Vedith/Netherspite vs Shinobi/Shiro/The Silver Bard, and Firebringer (3p Survivor who we lynched on d1 LOL).

2 of my proudest games ever (as town of course).

[Performer]

Votecount Day 2 as of pg 32

MarioManiac4 (3) - KainTepes, Garmr, Boonskiies
Soapbar (2) - MarioManiac4, Performer
Katsuki (1) - droog
Performer (1) - Katsuki

Not Voting (4) - Soapbar, Ircher, Not_Mafia, Lapsa

11 alive, takes 6 to lynch
-----

Not_Mafia- Null, is going to be very hard to read.
droog- I didn't have an opinion on IL and this guy comes in and just defends Lapsa. I can see this as scum especially if Lapsa is town. Right now I'd like to see if he has an opinion on current events.
Katsuki- Null, is going to be very hard to read.
Garmr- Reacts in a weird and unprovoked way when attacked- "you can go fck yourself because im town" is a bit weird for a town who knows mislynches happen and is more likely from someone who has something to hide.
Soapbar- Basically a known mafioso who we refuse to lynch. There's probably scum influence in that and I'm not going to completely rule out a Soap!town Lapsa!scum scenario in which Lapsa refuses to lynch Soap intil LYLO to get a scum win.

@Mario this latter half is interesting. I agree with your reads overall, and there are 2 parts I haven't thought of so your perspective is very helpful here - especially toward Gar/droog. For instance, droog - from my memory, his towngame showed him being more engaged. In this game, he replaced in, posted, then has disappeared. I remember reading Insidious, his predecessor, as town based on ISO. I need to ISO droog and review his posts.

As for the 2 null folks in your reads - in my experience and from advice for town play, null slots should typically not be trusted. Doesn't mean we can't work with them or have them work with us, but null slots are there for a reason...whether they're being consistently vague, too brief, lurking, contradictory, misrepresenting, etc.

I'm at a different place toward Garmr than you. I have him as null as you may have seen from my previous post. Makes me rather other uncomfortable as I may have read him wrong on d1.

I definitely appreciate the reads list , as I haven't thought of droog and Garmr in those ways.

[Performer]

some asorted reads

town

irchir/rc -- mostly because of rc
he cut to the center of a few things i wanted said

kain -- leading obvtown newbtown
though i have fun imagining him as a thor alt

faq (shucks)

lapsa -- i like the cut of his jib this game

scum

boonskiies -- not suce why i find him scummier
he just seems different from ton boon ive seen before

I didn't give it much thought when I read his reads list a few days ago, but looking back at his ISO - his elaboration on his townreads of KT & Lapsa, are super mysterious. His scumread of Boon is him basing it 100% of meta.

VOTE: KainTepes
Capital letters oh boy

InsidiousLemons, are you satisfied with the current position of your vote?

Not really, no. Despite the fact that Kain is easily aggravated and seems not to have much idea what he's doing, I don't think he's scum. I don't really like the way that Boonskiies and Katsuki are interacting, but I feel like it's a bit ballsy as a scum move. Still though, I don't like Boon's general lack of activity, so I suppose I'll
VOTE: Boonskiies

-----
@Kain & Boon what do you guys think of the Insidious/droog slot
Also
@Lapsa what do you think of that slot

[Ircher]

@Droog

What are your reads?

[Ircher]

@Mod Isn't Droog due a prod? Its been 50 hrs

[Boonskiies]

Droog tends to hardcore WK me/buddy me if he's scum. His paranoia over me helped me kind of lean town for him.

[Boonskiies]

ALTHOUGH!!! He could just have been staying somewhat consistent with Insid, so I'm not sure. I understand scum reads on me early though. But that was an easy wagon to try and start. Idk.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Mini 1763 - D2 Garmr Iso

1. In 226, Garm expresses his scumread of Perf. Reasons include manipulating events and going for easy ML. -

For an extremely strong read ("incredibly scummy"), I think this case is a bit weak. The example that was provided for twisting events... I can see Town Perf making that possible assumption. And, going after easy lynches, while certainly could be a scum tactic, is rather dependent on the way a player plays. I am not extremely sure of Perf's meta though, so that could be a valid point. Overall, this part of the post does not quite have that "town motivated" vibe to it, but it is early in the thread and should merely be noted for future reference. -

Null-Indicative

2. 263, Garm gives a bit more detail about his scumread of Perf. -

The reasons here, esp. the double standard, seem a bit more reasonable than your earlier reasons. Still, this equates to about -

Null-Indicative

3. Unexplained Iran vote in [post]343[/vote] -

I'd like an explanation here. Still though -

Null-Indicative

4. Very sparse ISO and about 1/4 of it is full of RVS related stuff.

Hmmm.... That doesn't quite look right. I think I'd lean towards scum here.

[Garmr]

Spoiler: Mini 1763 - D2 Garmr Iso

1. In 226, Garm expresses his scumread of Perf. Reasons include manipulating events and going for easy ML. -

For an extremely strong read ("incredibly scummy"), I think this case is a bit weak. The example that was provided for twisting events... I can see Town Perf making that possible assumption. And, going after easy lynches, while certainly could be a scum tactic, is rather dependent on the way a player plays. I am not extremely sure of Perf's meta though, so that could be a valid point. Overall, this part of the post does not quite have that "town motivated" vibe to it, but it is early in the thread and should merely be noted for future reference. -

Null-Indicative

2. 263, Garm gives a bit more detail about his scumread of Perf. -

The reasons here, esp. the double standard, seem a bit more reasonable than your earlier reasons. Still, this equates to about -

Null-Indicative

3. Unexplained Iran vote in [post]343[/vote] -

I'd like an explanation here. Still though -

Null-Indicative

4. Very sparse ISO and about 1/4 of it is full of RVS related stuff.

Hmmm.... That doesn't quite look right. I think I'd lean towards scum here.

You just listed everything as null then called me scum because of it wow that's terrible.

[Ircher]

It's about -35% confidence. That's lean toward scum. Your exaggerating/misrepping what I said

[Garmr]

It's about -35% confidence. That's lean toward scum. Your exaggerating/misrepping what I said

How is that exaggerating/missrepping it seriously is all null things for a scum fuck you even had me as a top town read day 1 and you say everything in my iso is null wtf.

[Ircher]

Its called reevaluating stuff. Also, end result is altered by my general vibe of the entire thing.

As far as townread D1 -- 1) I was catching up 2) It seemed reasonable compared to some things at the time 3) I wasn't looking at you in ISO.

I think your exaggerating rather than misrepping in this case though.