Cyberpunk Mafia [Game Over!]

[DiamondSentinel]

In the mean time, I just gain a better lead on Varsoon.

[Varsoon]

[DiamondSentinel]

Nice job confirming Maxous as scum, guys. It's not a coincidence that games slow down when someone really catches a scum. I'd appreciate it if you townies would vote Maxous, and then we can work from there.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Got time to explain it yet?

[DiamondSentinel]

Yeah, give me a sec, yo.

[DiamondSentinel]

Well, I was reading your ISO looking for anything longer than 2 lines, but I couldn't find much. So that's a start. A distinct lack of extended content, beyond some less than stellar reads.

You keep saying "I'm going to catch up" which is NEVER a town mentality. "catching up" is never the same quality as actually posting and responding in same time, so that gets a "no" in my book.

You've give low-quality naked votes on terrible vote choices. Honestly, this is the only thing keeping me from voting you outright. You are probably my biggest choice for 3P because of this, tbh.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

They're awful reasons.

Like, you just made them up on the spot.

[DiamondSentinel]

Nah, it's taken straight from past games I've played, not site meta. Screw site meta. It's lost town every game I've played in. So if you think you're smart and I'm dumb just because you use site meta and I use my own logic, you're wrong. Or at least, you're not right.

[DrippingGoofball]

Aw, what the heck, why not.

VOTE: Maxous

[Dwlee99]

okay so why is maxous scum? I think I missed that

[DrippingGoofball]

okay so why is maxous scum? I think I missed that

POE? And why not? I'd like to see if he flinches when poked.

[Dwlee99]

okay so why is maxous scum? I think I missed that

POE? And why not? I'd like to see if he flinches when poked.

*boop*

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Maxous
If he's town, then DS has struck out and DGB is sure to follow, so I'm really good with this lynch.

[Rylai and Lina]

I am also ok with this

Vote:Maxous

He is the definition of taking no stances and never following up on anything they do.

~Lina

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Meh.

So it's just me who feels like Diamond presented reasons to scum read me that he made up on the spot? Like, even the way he wrote his post you can tell he was reading my ISO like 'Right, what can spin as scummy?'

[Tammy]

I'd have really really loved it if Maxous had done something in conjunction with voting me because otherwise it feels throwaway and weird

I would of..but then you went MIA on me and I got lazy afterwards

Your last post was a bit better though, it was the first time you had a bit of conviction going after somebody in the game.

..I think I might go just back on Muffin. I think he's getting away with murder here and the more claims we get the more i'm convinced he's fake-claiming this shit.
like, compare him to how dwlee, catdog and even BS handled their abilities on the first night and revealing them today and look at Muffin who a) didn't bother clearing someone when he had a chance and b) claimed in a really indirect manner to get the heat of a wagon off him.

A bit better than what? And if the previous wasn't good, then how come you didn't comment/push any of that. Literally the only reason you've listed for suspecting me is that I might be scum with half the people in my pocket, and if that's the case shouldn't you be talking to other people about why they're town reading me? I might not have posted for a couple of days, but they certainly are, so you just left that out there hanging but with nothing behind it and no real attempt to figure it out.

[DiamondSentinel]

Meh.

So it's just me who feels like Diamond presented reasons to scum read me that he made up on the spot? Like, even the way he wrote his post you can tell he was reading my ISO like 'Right, what can spin as scummy?'

I mean, that's sorta what scum hunting is when the person has next to no content.

[Tammy]

Tammy, a lot of your post boils down to "Yos has been playing for 11 years and I don't understand where a lot of his reads come from so that bothers me." That doesn't really make sense at all to me (why would my play become *simpler* and over time?), but I get it all the time. I always use a combination of logic and gut and intuition when scumhunting, especially when we don't have a lot of hard facts yet, because that works much better then trying to use pure logic 100% of the time. I can't always explain my reads very well, but I still share them so the rest of the town. And at least in the last several games I've played, my reads have turned out to be quite accurate for the most part (although not always of course), even when I can't explain them.

It's not that at all. I just reread my post and I don't know where you got this conclusion from, and considering that while I have not played with you I have read your posts and interactions with people in forums and you don't demonstrate an inability to understand where someone else is coming from, this reduction of my post to a very inaccurate interpretation is bothersome.

I never said your play should be simpler. I never said I don't understand where you're getting your reads. Your reads read extremely superficial to me. Like you're reading the surface of posts but not digging into the player motivations. It's not deep enough. It's *too* simplistic. It reads very robotic.

Using a combination of gut/logic/intuition/emotion while playing isn't confusing to me because that's how I play as well so it's something I do understand quite well. Which I use the most depends on what type of mood I'm in. I don't mind people not being able to explain reads very well or even weird reasonings for reads because that's almost everyone save people like regfan, and I'm not able to explain reads very well all the time either.

Absolutely none of that is my problem. My problem is that your reads and reasonings look like you pushing things that you can plausibly push. Like okay this person is exhibiting textbook scummy behavior A; I can push this and question this and scumread this with no retribution. This is what your previous Diamond Sentinel and Catdog scum reads feel like. I didn't like your reasoning for your BBT read, not that I didn't understand you. It was because it similarly felt weak. I'll look back at that muffin thing and if I have a chance reglance at team mafia game, but he was widely townread in that game because he did the very thing you're town reading him here for, and I will dig my heels in for this until he does something that actually looks town because everybody - including my team - told me I was wrong to suspect him because he was so obviously town.

(And again sorry if I'm being an unfair jackass and you are town here.)

During Rosarian's catch up he makes several comments on the claims that "Argh" sound so fake. But one thing that bugs me okay two. But one - I claimed VT. When Yosarian got to that post he made this post:

And then right after I agree with her, Tammy claims VT for basically no reason with one vote on her, or am i missing something? Really dislike that play.

Which makes absolutely no sense at all considering my claim post was:

Which I think very clearly identifies that I thought it was a vig threat I was responding to.

I saw that, but it didn't really make sense to me. Did you really think Varsoon was about to day-vig you or something and you had to hurry up and claim? For that matter, if you really thought you were going to get vigged, why would you think a VT claim would help avoid that?

Yeah this is the conversation that you should probably reread and it boggles my mind that you missed that whole conversation because you were catching up right there. You took the time to note that you hated my claim, thereafter ensued an entire conversation about it, and you completely missed it? It's on page 41.

But to summarize. Varsoon gave something to BadGirls. When Badgirls asked if there was a particular way that he wanted them to use it, Varsoon told them to go full ham as he intended. Three posts later BadGirls tells me to not hold back if there's anything I wanted to say that day and they had already voted me. It read as a vig-threat to me. You can say that was silly of me to think that and maybe it was but that's how it read to me.

I didn't claim to save myself, which I already said, and it's in my very claim post that I was explaining why I was town reading DiamondSentinel. I considered claiming day one so I could explain because a large part of my read after he claimed was based on how I approached and felt about my own role when I got it. If I were trying to save myself of course I'd claim a role, I'm not a moron. I was claiming because I wanted to explain my DiamondSentinel read.

Anyway, I have a general policy that the town should generally lynch people who claim VT, for tactical reasons. I mentioned that on day 1. The fact that all I did was grump about your VT claim and didn't actually vote you for it should actually indicate that I don't find you terribly suspicious.

My complaint had nothing to do with you maybe not finding me suspicious and not voting me there. You had gotten after me the day before for getting the context wrong, but I had in that very post that I thought it was a vig threat I was claiming for yet you just mentioned not liking it because of having one vote on me. It had nothing to do with the vote on me and I explained it in that post. You also complained about other claims and didn't comment on the actual stuff that was going on in the thread. IIRC one of the only things you actually did comment on that had to do with gameplay was liking BBT essentially because effort. The things you chose to comment on during your catchup felt fake and throwaway rather than commentary on the actual game.

It's harkening back to my earlier complaint that your play feels surface level.

Also, he clearly still suspects Diamond Sentinel so if you're going to continue suspecting someone I've explained my town read on, why not engage in that? That's where the superficial feels especially comes in. There's no insight, there's no digging deeper, there's no attempts to figure people out.

Actaully I'm not really suspecting DS at the moment. A lot of DS's recent play doesn't really make sense as scum. [/quote]

But you did in that moment because the very post after you posted your dislike of my claim, you quoted a post of DS's and said that he was still responding poorly to pressure which would suggest still suspicious of him because otherwise what was the point of the post?

And this is the overall trend of his game. He tries to sound too confident that people are scum. He's not digging to figure out alignments and is just overall phoning it in.

I certanly am not "phoning it in".[/quote]

Again if you're town, I'm sorry for being the jackass who's hounding you for not playing to certain expectations when you're just trying to do your thing, but it certainly feels like phoning it in. I don't really have time to meta these days but I'll try to at least find a game to skim through.

[BadGirls]

@Tammy, Talking about a read doesn't mean I magically deduce where you stand. The name Dwlee doesn't appear in 439. In 650, where you state basically Dwlee is weird without coming to a conclusion. 815, you have a lean town on Beeboy (don't know why) and no read on Dwlee. 822, you have Dwlee suspicions but that doesn't take a position as to whether he's town or scum. 941 also doesn't talk about Dwlee. 1159 is asking why I don't feel you've said anything. If I am supposed to divine your reads from that, please tell me where? All I got is a stale townread and Dwlee makes you squint.

You made a big deal about me working with people. If you're town, I can't do that without knowing where you stand. If you're scum, I want you on record.

What conclusion did you think I was supposed to draw? I don't do subtle well.

@All, I think this Maxous lynch is a load of shit and CatDog is getting away with modifying his result by throwing a pity party. My town reads are for it though, so it presents a rock in a hard place. I can keep insisting on scum lynches I don't think will happen or push for a counter I think is wrong because which appears to have no reason? Rock meet hard place. How can I work with people when I can't even understand what people are doing?

[BadGirls]

^^ ObvTitus

@Tammy Your last post has an f***ed up quote tag. Can you fix and spoiler?

~Titus

[Tammy]

They were posts where I was talking about one or the other, not both. You acted like I didn't have reads on either.

439 - leaning town on beeboy
815 - In a response to you, leaning town on beeboy, don't know what to do with dwlee
822 - Town on beeboy, would hammer dwlee as he's not a town read but wouldn't like to wagon
941 - beeboy still town. And it most certainly does talk about dwlee. I liked his read change on DGB, thought it more likely comes from town.

How can you not know where I stand. I'm not going to work or interact with you if you act obtuse. Is there a reason you're so fixated on dwlee and beeboy. Do you find beeboy suspicious and that's why you're trying to discredit my read as stale? Is there a reason it should have changed? Do you also suspect dwlee?

Here's one of my biggest problems with you Titus. You're using inflated language to try to make me look bad. I don't think this comes from town you. I realize that you like to say you don't use meta, but you have played with me enough to know how I operate with reads and reasonings. If you think back to mafiaception, just how long did it take me to decide on a read on you? I'm pretty sure I finally decided you were scum and voted you within 24 hours of the deadline. It similarly took me a good long time to be confident in a read on BBMolla. Now, that's just one of the more recent games you've played with me, but you're accusing me of dodging reads on players when that isn't even the case. And really I want you to explain why these two matter. They weren't the wagons most likely to go through yesterday but you've fixated on these two, which I didn't dodge at all. One of the ones you accuse me of dodging on was one of the people I actual leaned town on early on and said so. But now you're trying to discredit that read by calling it a stale town read. So at first you get after me for dodging it, but then when you're proved to be wrong, you can't bother to go oh I was wrong about that, you try to save face by calling it stale.

I can see not drawing the conclusion that I was leaning town on dwlee at the end of yesterday, but considering I had the line "It's something that I see more often come from town." that's an indication I'm leaning town there. I did include a caveat that if that was typical scum behavior for him specifically then I could be giving him too much credit but considering noone countered that it was, it doesn't matter.

[Tammy]

^^ ObvTitus

@Tammy Your last post has an f***ed up quote tag. Can you fix and spoiler?

~Titus

Nope!

[Tammy]

Titus - What do you think about Yosarian? Because you keep dodging giving a read on him.

[BadGirls]

@Tammy, I am pretty fucking town on Yoyo and I figured you'd be able to see that based on how I

think

you process the game. From what I understand, how to view working together is by propping up your townreads and giving them space to do their thing and helping them push their reads, especially if you don't disagree. I did never say Yoyo is town (fair question) but I have attacked at least indirectly your reasons for scumreading him because I have done the same I the past and given him wide berth to do his thing. Guess what, yoyo's read was right and I was wrong. So when I see you doing a burden of proficiency on yoyoyo I am rather perplexed here.

This is why I thought your read on Beeboy was stale. I don't see you reaching out to form groups of people who are working together and townreading each other. I am trying to figure out who you are "working with" and I am finding that difficult.

Now, I understand you made some deal about herd mentality and why I asked you about wagons that were "unlikely" to go through. To me, it's binary. Either a wagon went through or it didn't. I don't get herd mentality (which is evident from me usually saying a lynch is stupid and rallying against the crowd the whole time). So if you're wondering why I would act and ask about herd mentality in a different way, it's because I do not understand it.

[Tammy]

Titus please read that yosarian (one of my personal scumhunting heroes) post and tell me that is not fucking scum? Like I'm sorry but he would NEVER push that piece of shit as an actual case

I'm not sure on Yoyo. I've only played with him twice before and Mollie told me the warmest things about him, but I thought his cases were shit too there. Turns out ABR was sending major false positives and that fucked with all my reads (and is why we hydra). The other time we played I was dead D1 because trolololol everyone is roleblocking vig.

Plus one person's "shitty" is another man's gold mine.

Good

Why would I think you are pretty town on yoyo when this is the last thing you said about him?

Actually you know what Titus? I'm done with you. I don't think you're town here and I'm not going to interact with you or try to work with you this game. You aren't actually processing anything I'm saying and you feel fake as fuck. You reduce things to an incorrect level all the time and I'm so sick of it. My read on Yosarian has nothing to do with burden of proficiency and I never said it does. I'm astounded by your interpretations of things because I know you're a smart person, so why are you acting obtuse.

My problem with yosarian is the way he's reading the game. I've said that. If you want to talk to me about his reads or my issues with him talk about that but you're attacking me for piddling little shit like beeboy and dwlee who again why are you fixated on them?

Why are you getting after me for not reaching out to form groups of people to work together? Why are you expecting that's how I'm going to play the game?

I'm done here. Lynch me if you want because you can't understand me or how I play. I'm just done. Every single time. Every single game. You say you want to work together with people, but just as in machina mafia that means that you get to discredit, misinterpret other people and act all superior because you're all about your ego, but really all you want people to do is what you say for them to do.

But this game this feels intentional. You feel obtuse for the sake of it. And I don't negotiate with terrorists so step off.