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[monogarden]

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What's the difference between claiming day cop and claiming mafia role blocker?

One's a option in the game and the other isn't?

[PhantomCobalt]

What's the difference between claiming day cop and claiming mafia role blocker?

One's a option in the game and the other isn't?

I guess that's obvious

[Thor665]

Unvote: Col Mongoose
Vote: Grendel

You can respond to Post #40 also.

[Pants98]

Why would he have claimed scum then? It's either a townie who has no idea how to play this game. Or a noob scum. Noob scum is more likely.

He is provably not brand new at the site, so both of your theories seem to have a hole in them - does that concern you?

Not really. Why should it?

[Grendel]

So I'm talking about Pants then? Okay.

Why would he have claimed scum then? It's either a townie who has no idea how to play this game. Or a noob scum. Noob scum is more likely.

He is provably not brand new at the site, so both of your theories seem to have a hole in them - does that concern you?

No, I don't agree with either of pant's theories. Cobalt is in the SE slot so he isn't a newbie for sure. If anything I think pants would be the less experienced one, not just here but at mafia in general, to have made such a call. Though I can't say that the gives me any real reads as to Pant's aliment, as a newbie on either side could make poor arguments at this point of the game, (I think newb towns start making better arguments as the game goes on, but newb scum don't). I will say that It'd definitely be a cause for concern if Pants were to keep making calls of this caliber as the game goes on, and there are more facts to work with. Also, he has only posted twice, non of which provide much information other then that he put Cobalt to L-1. For what that's worth.

My own theory on Cobalt is that he, accidentally claimed scum b/c of his confusion with the role he was private messaged. Like he meant to message the Mod that as confirmation that he got his role. He was complaining about the game's set up after all.

[Grendel]

OH, HAI

Mark

PANTS! (I guess that's three posts now)

[Thor665]

Why would he have claimed scum then? It's either a townie who has no idea how to play this game. Or a noob scum. Noob scum is more likely.

He is provably not brand new at the site, so both of your theories seem to have a hole in them - does that concern you?

Not really. Why should it?

Unvote: Grendel
Vote: Pants98

Well, let me break this down, and my reasons for the vote change, which is a very real and meaningful vote, shall be explained therein.

Your claim is that, if he is town, he "has no idea how to play the game"
And if he is scum "he is n00b"

I have a few issues with this.

1. You are actually saying the same thing here - that he is too new to know what to do well, so you are presenting a situation "he is new" admitting it applies equally to his action regardless of his alignment "he is new scum or new town" and then are voting him over it. It would be like if I claimed scum would have a red avatar and town would have a crimson avatar and then voted someone with a scarlet avatar over it - even if I was right, I'm saying nothing (or intentionally faking saying something to look good). I don't buy the concept that "n00b" scum is somehow more likely, especially with the ability to research his other games.

2. I was able to present factual evidence that he is not actually new - attacking the basis of both of your cases. Now, I suppose you could argue he's still "new enough" but, y'know, we can look at his other games (did you?) and assess pretty quickly that, yes, he actually does understand basic game concepts, and is highly unlikely to have made a mistaken claim as scum or to think that is the only way to play as town.

3. You did *nothing* to change you views with this revelation - which suggests to me you're not thinking critically about your thoughts, but are just attacking something that, without thinking about it, looks scummy. It's a safe attack because, hey, he claimed scum! But you don't actually care to think why it's scummy or not scummy - you just care that it superficially looks scummy, and is easy to attack - which makes you look scummy.

[Thor665]

So I'm talking about Pants then? Okay.

I didn't want that actually, though I'm fine with seeing how you're good with what Pants is doing.
I was rather hoping for you to back up the stance that what PC did was scummy in any way at all.
Like, if it was scummy I'm utterly missing it - so you really need to paint the picture for me here.

Your claim seems to be that he messed up a PM to the mod, claimed scum by accident, and the mod decided to let that one slide along?
Walk me through that?

[Col Mongoose]

Unvote Phantom Cobalt

Vote Thor665

My reason for this is while PC may have claimed scrum. Thor has claimed he is a day cop and the set-ups that we have available to say the cop's ability is activated at night for investigation while this may be Metaing a little bit I can speculate that he is trying to draw the heat off of his scum associate by first claiming that I was scum and now has switched his vote to Grendel without much of a valid argument. So if one or both of them is scum we can quite quickly claim a victory for town.

[Col Mongoose]

And then switched his vote to pants. So I'm not quite sure at this point maybe he is playing scummy but it's still kinda of early to tell.

[Grendel]

So I'm talking about Pants then? Okay.

I didn't want that actually, though I'm fine with seeing how you're good with what Pants is doing.
I was rather hoping for you to back up the stance that what PC did was scummy in any way at all.
Like, if it was scummy I'm utterly missing it - so you really need to paint the picture for me here.

Your claim seems to be that he messed up a PM to the mod, claimed scum by accident, and the mod decided to let that one slide along?
Walk me through that?

I'm not good about him (Pants) exactly, I do think his argument was weak. I'm just not leaning towards either scum or town yet.

My thoughts toward Cobalt are a big "WHY", because saying he is mafia (even as a joke) isn't protown at all. It just seems like a bad Idea from a perspective of any aliment. So I couldn't really judge which he is because It wouldn't make sense for either. After thinking on it though I came to the conclusion that while claiming maf isn't a good tactic for a real maf it's also not helpful if a townie fake claimed maf, and that any reasonable town just wouldn't do that. So I decided that Cobalt was a Mafia since a townie would never screw around with other townies like that.

eeehehe, yeah, my claim that his post was accidental, and intended for the mod it does sound less and less realistic by the minute. It just seemed so out of the blue at the time that I thought their wouldn't be any other reason a mafia would do that.

So I guess you're of the impression it was a joke then- If you could I'd appreciate you'd tell me how joking about it so dryly was a good idea. Especially since he doesn't pull any cue's that it was a joke post. :/

[PhantomCobalt]

Grendel have you done any of the recommended reading?

[Pants98]

Why would he have claimed scum then? It's either a townie who has no idea how to play this game. Or a noob scum. Noob scum is more likely.

He is provably not brand new at the site, so both of your theories seem to have a hole in them - does that concern you?

Not really. Why should it?

Unvote: Grendel
Vote: Pants98

Well, let me break this down, and my reasons for the vote change, which is a very real and meaningful vote, shall be explained therein.

Your claim is that, if he is town, he "has no idea how to play the game"
And if he is scum "he is n00b"

I have a few issues with this.

1. You are actually saying the same thing here - that he is too new to know what to do well, so you are presenting a situation "he is new" admitting it applies equally to his action regardless of his alignment "he is new scum or new town" and then are voting him over it. It would be like if I claimed scum would have a red avatar and town would have a crimson avatar and then voted someone with a scarlet avatar over it - even if I was right, I'm saying nothing (or intentionally faking saying something to look good). I don't buy the concept that "n00b" scum is somehow more likely, especially with the ability to research his other games.

2. I was able to present factual evidence that he is not actually new - attacking the basis of both of your cases. Now, I suppose you could argue he's still "new enough" but, y'know, we can look at his other games (did you?) and assess pretty quickly that, yes, he actually does understand basic game concepts, and is highly unlikely to have made a mistaken claim as scum or to think that is the only way to play as town.

3. You did *nothing* to change you views with this revelation - which suggests to me you're not thinking critically about your thoughts, but are just attacking something that, without thinking about it, looks scummy. It's a safe attack because, hey, he claimed scum! But you don't actually care to think why it's scummy or not scummy - you just care that it superficially looks scummy, and is easy to attack - which makes you look scummy.

1. I don't know what you're point is here.
2. When I wrote that I didn't realize he was an SE. That was a mistake on my part.
3. I'm assuming that this "revelation" that you are referring to is that he isn't a newer player. I no longer believe he is scum. UNVOTE: CP I'm not attacking him. If I was my previous post probably would have attempted to convince you he is scum.

[Grendel]

Grendel have you done any of the recommended reading?

Ahh, no... I thought that was geared to players who hadn't played any mafia before. I've player forum mafia, (AL 'bit casual games), before.

I can read it now though. I'm not above getting educated.

[Thor665]

1. I don't know what you're point is here.
2. When I wrote that I didn't realize he was an SE. That was a mistake on my part.
3. I'm assuming that this "revelation" that you are referring to is that he isn't a newer player. I no longer believe he is scum. UNVOTE: CP I'm not attacking him. If I was my previous post probably would have attempted to convince you he is scum.

1. I'm pointing out that your logic for it being a scum tell is identical to your logic for it being a town tell, and vice versa. Like, i could literally flip around town and scum in your sentence, and it would make just as much (or little) sense as it did the other way around - which means I'm reading it as a fake tell.

2. Why did I need to repeat myself for you to realize this changed things? I feel like you're trying to appease me now that I have a valid case for your scumminess.

3. All you tried to do in your response was duck discussing the logic of your case until I forced you to. That's scum mentality to my mind, I think you knew your case was weak but didn't want to admit it.

[Thor665]

eeehehe, yeah, my claim that his post was accidental, and intended for the mod it does sound less and less realistic by the minute. It just seemed so out of the blue at the time that I thought their wouldn't be any other reason a mafia would do that.

I will agree that, beyond being a conversation starter, there isn't much point to it at all.
People also self vote as conversation starters - I don't see the difference besides that one is less often seen (and therefore, serves the purpose better).
Want to vote Pants?

So I guess you're of the impression it was a joke then- If you could I'd appreciate you'd tell me how joking about it so dryly was a good idea. Especially since he doesn't pull any cue's that it was a joke post. :/

He posted ample info for it to be a joke post in my opinion as soon as he noted that RVS was over (or that conversation had started, I forget his exact phrasing). That is pretty much a mic drop on a "I did this to start reactions" making it a reaction test. Now, we can debate whether it was a real or fake reaction test, I guess, but beyond that I really fail to see how people are still hung up on it now that we have reactions to the test, which are far more interesting.

[Pants98]

1. I don't know what you're point is here.
2. When I wrote that I didn't realize he was an SE. That was a mistake on my part.
3. I'm assuming that this "revelation" that you are referring to is that he isn't a newer player. I no longer believe he is scum. UNVOTE: CP I'm not attacking him. If I was my previous post probably would have attempted to convince you he is scum.

1. I'm pointing out that your logic for it being a scum tell is identical to your logic for it being a town tell, and vice versa. Like, i could literally flip around town and scum in your sentence, and it would make just as much (or little) sense as it did the other way around - which means I'm reading it as a fake tell.

2. Why did I need to repeat myself for you to realize this changed things? I feel like you're trying to appease me now that I have a valid case for your scumminess.

3. All you tried to do in your response was duck discussing the logic of your case until I forced you to. That's scum mentality to my mind, I think you knew your case was weak but didn't want to admit it.

1.I don't know the mafia lingo. What's a fake tell?
2. I realized the first time you said it. I was referring to the original post I wrote about PC, not my response to you're question.
3. I hate to do this again but what is duck discussing?

[Pants98]

1. I don't know what you're point is here.
2. When I wrote that I didn't realize he was an SE. That was a mistake on my part.
3. I'm assuming that this "revelation" that you are referring to is that he isn't a newer player. I no longer believe he is scum. UNVOTE: CP I'm not attacking him. If I was my previous post probably would have attempted to convince you he is scum.

1. I'm pointing out that your logic for it being a scum tell is identical to your logic for it being a town tell, and vice versa. Like, i could literally flip around town and scum in your sentence, and it would make just as much (or little) sense as it did the other way around - which means I'm reading it as a fake tell.

2. Why did I need to repeat myself for you to realize this changed things? I feel like you're trying to appease me now that I have a valid case for your scumminess.

3. All you tried to do in your response was duck discussing the logic of your case until I forced you to. That's scum mentality to my mind, I think you knew your case was weak but didn't want to admit it.

1.I don't know the mafia lingo. What's a fake tell?
2. I realized the first time you said it. I was referring to the original post I wrote about PC, not my response to you're question.
3. I hate to do this again but what is duck discussing?

[Pants98]

Sorry for the double post. I think it was a glitch with my phone. I should probably use my computer.

[Thor665]

1.I don't know the mafia lingo. What's a fake tell?
2. I realized the first time you said it. I was referring to the original post I wrote about PC, not my response to you're question.
3. I hate to do this again but what is duck discussing?

1. Seems like your question should be, what is 'a tell', in this instance I am using what is basically defined here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tell_%28poker%29
Except replace poker with Mafia.

A fake tell means I think you're faking belief in a tell you don't actually buy into.

2. If you realized it the first time I said it, and said it didn't change anything - then why did you unvote just now? My perception was you did so because of awareness of him not being a newbie - but now that doesn't seem to be the case.

3. Replace "duck" with "evade" and I feel my meaning will come across.

[Col Mongoose]

Unvote Thor665

[Pants98]

1.I don't know the mafia lingo. What's a fake tell?
2. I realized the first time you said it. I was referring to the original post I wrote about PC, not my response to you're question.
3. I hate to do this again but what is duck discussing?

1. Seems like your question should be, what is 'a tell', in this instance I am using what is basically defined here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tell_%28poker%29
Except replace poker with Mafia.

A fake tell means I think you're faking belief in a tell you don't actually buy into.

2. If you realized it the first time I said it, and said it didn't change anything - then why did you unvote just now? My perception was you did so because of awareness of him not being a newbie - but now that doesn't seem to be the case.

3. Replace "duck" with "evade" and I feel my meaning will come across.

1. I understand that I said the same thing twice. I guess I was being stupid when I wrote it.
2. I'll get to this in a minute.
3. I'll also get to this in a minute.



Now it's time for the fun part.





VOTE: Thor665
This is not an OMGUS. I will explain my reasons for this vote below.

A: In post 40 the question you asked and the question you seem to want me to have answered are different. The way you worded it ("does this concern you?") asks if I'm concerned. As in scared or worried. Of course it didn't scare me that two theories I made were wrong. Why would it? But what I see in you're newer posts implies you asked me "Does this change anything?". If you wanted me to answer that question then why didn't you ask it? Of course I didn't tell you that my opinion changed because the answer to "does this concern you?" is not "I don't think PC is scum anymore,". It's either "Yes it terrifies me." or "No it doesn't.". I think you asked me "does this concern you?" because you wanted me to give the answer I did. You tricked me. I gave an answer that didn't change my opinion. You made sure I wouldn't by giving a question that didn't warrant one. After that add a few mistakes I made like saying he is noob scum or noob town instead of just saying he is noob, and you have a pretty solid case that everyone will believe.

B: The vote hopping. First you voted col mongoose without providing any real evidence (and you claimed DayCop but I can't tell if that was a joke). Then you voted Grendel without providing any reason at all. Both of these times we were WAY out of RVS. Then you voted me with the evidence I explained in the A section. I'm not the person who's noticed this"

Unvote Phantom Cobalt

Vote Thor665

My reason for this is while PC may have claimed scrum. Thor has claimed he is a day cop and the set-ups that we have available to say the cop's ability is activated at night for investigation while this may be Metaing a little bit I can speculate that he is trying to draw the heat off of his scum associate by first claiming that I was scum and now has switched his vote to Grendel without much of a valid argument.[/b] So if one or both of them is scum we can quite quickly claim a victory for town.

[Pants98]

*I'm not the only person who's noticed this:

Typo

[Thor665]

Pants is now agreeing that I have pointed out issues with his play that are true and factual.

He is voting me because I moved my votes around (which is scummy...how? He doesn't say, apparently movement of votes is inherently scummy somehow).
He is also voting me because when I asked "does this concern you?" I wasn't clear enough that I wanted him to assess how it affects his read - and even though i was right in noting that it should affect his read, yet didn't, because I used the word "concerned" as opposed to "change" it's scummy because...it's unclear what I meant...even though I am correct in noticing it makes no sense that his vote remained.

Very happy with where my vote is right now.

[Thor665]

I guess there's also the 'claimed DayCop' aspect of the case - but I'm addressing that one with just as much attention as it deserves.