Scummer D&D

[FakeGod]

Just think about what would happen.

Bunch of wizards are walking around in a cave. Bunch of goblins jump out and surround them.

What can the wizards even do at that point?

[DiamondSentinel]

Enchanter takes a couple, illusionist does whatever they do, transmuter buffs up someone, etc. they just do whatever their school does.

[FakeGod]

Enchanter starts casting sleep. Illusionist casts color spray and disable couple. Transmuter looks around sadly for someone to cast enlarge person on and realize he needs a melee PC ally to be effective. Necromancer shoots ray of enfeeblement and weakens one. Evoker casts magic missile and damages 1. Abjurer casts shield. Conjurer casts grease to try and block off a side. Diviner can't do anything.

On goblin's turn, they all throw spears. 3 of the wizards die, and 2 of them are at 1 hp. TPK.

[DiamondSentinel]

Transmuter looks around sadly for someone to cast enlarge person on and realize he needs a melee PC ally to be effective.L.

Most true statement ever, lol

[Who]

Nah. You're assuming they all only do what they specialize in.

Everybody opens up with color spray, hopefully disables them all. If any are left conscious, GG no re. If they win initiative, GG no re. Wizards realize that they are now out of spells and go home. This repeats until any goblin makes their will save and massacres the party.

[Who]

Alternatively, meet an army of skeletons. Wizards run away screaming while the skeletons hunt them down and kill them.

[Who]

I mean, it might

not

be terrible as long as our abjuror is good enough.

Abjurers are suckers. You should never bar abjuration, but you also shouldn't specialize in it.

[FakeGod]

Oh, by the way guys, I decided to allow Favored Soul (from Complete Divine) as one of the playable classes.

[GuyInFreezer]

with correct feats I can have +14 will save as a LV 8 frenzy. I think that sounds plausible.

[Who]

Actually no, you'd need a precocious apprentice build. Actually probably 2 to be safe. Advance carefully, don't get surrounded, then back away while firing fireball things at the goblins.

They carry until normal evoker gets good, evoker carries until conjurer, conjurer carries until you get enough money for an army of golems, army of golems carries.

This would work, assuming that a) You always happen to be in a geographic location where this will work (You never get surrounded) and b) apprentice can carry until evocation gets good, which is doubtful, and c) You always win initiative (Not happening) and d) the golems can actually carry later, which is uncertain. They're immune to magic so transmuter can't help them.

[Who]

with correct feats I can have +14 will save as a LV 8 frenzy. I think that sounds plausible.

So you need to roll at least a 6. Start trying before you kill all the enemies and you'll be fine.

What will your ref save be like? If that's shit then also one of the magic people can learn bands of steel for in case you keep failing the will saves.

[Who]

Also how do you get 14? I'm going to end ups with like 0.

[GuyInFreezer]

22 con at lv 8 (+6), class feature (+3), rage bonus con (+2), rage will save (+2), cloak of resistance (+1)

[GuyInFreezer]

oh and steadfast determination

[GuyInFreezer]

oops I meant 13 not 14.

also ref save is +2.

[DiamondSentinel]

So, does dragon shaman play as poor as I thought it looked? It looks like it'd be good, if it weren't for the cleric BAB.

[FakeGod]

DS, your assessment is correct. It would be a decent class if it weren't for the cleric BAB.

It's early game is decent enough, but it falls off quickly as we progress through the levels.

[Who]

What class feature?

[GuyInFreezer]

the will save from classes which is actually +2 not +3.

With that said, this takes too much feat to actually get all the frenzie requirement and get steadfast determination at lv 6 unless I go human, which means my will save will end up at +12 which is meh.

[GuyInFreezer]

It will have to look like

Human lv 1: Destructive Rage, Intimidating Rage
Lv 2: PA from fighter
Lv 3: Cleave from fighter, Endurance
Lv 6: Steadfast Determination, start taking frenzied.

Which means if I'm going warforged it's impossible.

[Who]

You're going barb 3/fighter 2/FB 2, right?
You'll end up with 1 from barb, nothing from anything else.

[Who]

You could always go for no will save.

[GuyInFreezer]

I planned FB X, which means at lv 8 it gets another +1 will save.

[Who]

Oh you were talking about 8 not 7.

[GuyInFreezer]

no will save sounds nice but once I get dominated TPK