New York 194: Guns N' Roses Mafia! (Day 8)

[Fraggernaut]

Right now I would have to say Irao & Golden Robster are in my preliminary scum pool.

I'll ISO Ness & see what I can derive from the interactions with them & others. Originally I didn't want to address it cause I wanted to see if the interactions between Ness & KAAG were organic. It could very well be a instance of TvT.

[iraonavp]

Your posts contradict what you're saying compared to what you're actually doing. A pretty notable scum trait.

This doesn't make anyone scum-aligned, anyway. If anything, alongside your belief that this is a scumtell, it's an indicator of your own delusion.

[iraonavp]

Right now I would have to say Irao & Golden Robster are in my preliminary scum pool.

Why Golden Robster? I have felt a certain sincerity in his posts.

[Ozgin]

Ozgin, are you implying that a town Ness shouldn't reply to your post? I mean, I sense defensiveness in his tone but the simple fact that he replies to things directed at him being considered scummy feels off.

No, I understand replying to things directed at him. But the way he blew up over it (he never had any real pressure on him, but he still reacted to every post against him with great offense) is what makes him scummy. A town Ness shouldn't attack/take offense to every post thrown at him the way he does.

Now if he were to respond to my post, that would make sense, because now I am literally accusing him of playing bad/anti-town. Now is the time to actually try to reply and refute me. He does a lot of "refuting" points that aren't even strong against him, and his idea of "refuting" is to get into a war over it. It just rubbed me the wrong way, and his defensiveness (in my opinion) is entirely too strong on all fronts.

[Fraggernaut]

@Irao

Quote posts in which I make "a half-hearted attempt to make it look like I'm scum hunting".

Are you feeling the pressure, jam?

Upon what metric does the jam wagon suck?

I don't think Boonskiies has done anything alignment indicative so far, and the jam wagon has FIVE TIMES the number of voters

Quote posts in which I am "pushing hard for this wagon".

See above as well as you keep mentioning them here.

Furthermore, the jam wagon has Pressure.

Which to me shows that you're still fully interested & involved with the wagon, while most of everyone else that was on it either went AFK after their vote, or have tried to scum hunt elsewhere & progress the game further.

Quote posts in which I "call out Mafiaturtle".

Hey, Mafiaturtle. How are you going to Pressure jam if you aren't voting him?

You called Mafiaturtle out for not putting their vote on Jam if they were going to pressure, even though your vote at the time was freshly on me when you naked voted me. It seems like either A. You're trying to get town to do the dirty work for you in getting a mislynch or B. There's this odd & weird world that I'll have to wait to see interactions between you & Turtle, that you're scum buddies together.

Also Irao, if you weren't interested in the Jam wagon. Then why did you go out of your way to mention it so many times?

[Fraggernaut]

Right now I would have to say Irao & Golden Robster are in my preliminary scum pool.

Why Golden Robster? I have felt a certain sincerity in his posts.

Hasn't provided anything to town other then shit posts & naked votes. Gives me a slight scum lean on him currently.

[Fraggernaut]

Also combine that with the fact that I know Golden Robster (from my recently finished game I modded. that they were involved in) is more then capable of providing information to help town & being a town leader.

[Axl_Rose]

VC 1.6

V

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C

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1

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6

With 21 Alive, it's 11 to Lynch!

Mod Notes:

"It's So Easy"

• (0)
  Boonskiies
  —
  (0)
  Ozgin
  —
  (0)
  Kop
  —
  (0)
  Killthestory
  —
  
  (4)
  N e s s
  — Ilikebugs, Killthestory, KickAssAndGiggle, Ozgin
  (0)
  pisskop
  —
  (0)
  Performer
  —
  (0)
  Mafiaturtle
  —
  (0)
  Ilikebugs
  —
  
  (1)
  SirCakez
  — Creature
  
  (2)
  Creature
  — Egg, Kop
  (0)
  GuyFawkes
  —
  (0)
  Something_Smart
  —
  (0)
  Egg
  —
  
  (1)
  Slandaar
  — Golden Robster
  
  (3)
  jam
  — SirCakez, pisskop, GuyFawkes
  
  (1)
  iraonavp
  — Fraggernaut
  
  (3)
  Golden Robster
  — Boonskiies, SnarkySnowman, jam
  (0)
  KickAssAndGiggle
  —
  
  (1)
  Fraggernaut
  — iraonavp
  (0)
  SnarkySnowman
  —
  
  (5)
  [Not Voting]
  —
  Performer, Slandaar, N e s s, Something_Smart, Mafiaturtle

- (expired on 2016-04-12 23:00:32) -

[iraonavp]

Right now I would have to say Irao & Golden Robster are in my preliminary scum pool.

Why Golden Robster? I have felt a certain sincerity in his posts.

Hasn't provided anything to town other then shit posts & naked votes. Gives me a slight scum lean on him currently.

Scum-aligned players are no more likely to post "shit posts & naked votes" than town-aligned players. Surely you cannot disagree with this.

Also combine that with the fact that I know Golden Robster (from my recently finished game I modded. that they were involved in) is more then capable of providing information to help town & being a town leader.

But he still could be a town-aligned player who isn't making much of an effort, right? That's the conclusion I've reached, at least.

[Creature]

Creature do something. Even Snarky is being more useful then you.
Slandaar is a stinky wagon.

If Slandaar is a stinky wagon, then what is a good wagon for you? Slandaar has only asked questions so far, but I didn't see him bothering to even answer his own questions. I don't mind pushing him, even if there's a Golden Robster voting him.

Also, why were you referencing Snarky?

I think some votes may force the issue.

VOTE: Creature

What about you? Do you have your own opinions? If your only post is an opportunistic vote, then there's something wrong with you.

Creature, wanna answer my question? Also, any thoughts on the game? Reads on Jam and Ness? Thoughts on their wagons?

Do you think there's something wrong with post #9? I had no intention behind that post. I am waiting the game go on a bit, I'll slowly take a look.

So far:
Ness - Typical panicking. Well, so far his behavior matches with his scum play, but I need to take a look at his town behavior and see what matches more.
Jam - Newbscum for me. I see hesitation on his initial posts to accuse someone, I also think he's pretending to be stupid. His vote on Golden seems sheepy (sheeping Snarky).

Jam

How much experience do you have in Mafia?

[Creature]

Also combine that with the fact that I know Golden Robster (from my recently finished game I modded. that they were involved in) is more then capable of providing information to help town & being a town leader.

But he still could be a town-aligned player who isn't making much of an effort, right? That's the conclusion I've reached, at least.

Isn't that the same as saying someone could still be a town-aligned player who is being very scummy?

[iraonavp]

Also combine that with the fact that I know Golden Robster (from my recently finished game I modded. that they were involved in) is more then capable of providing information to help town & being a town leader.

But he still could be a town-aligned player who isn't making much of an effort, right? That's the conclusion I've reached, at least.

Isn't that the same as saying someone could still be a town-aligned player who is being very scummy?

No, because he isn't "scummy".

[Fraggernaut]

@Irao

Which is your opinion, it's not factual.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar,

What reason is there not to have an RVS vote on when it's 11 to lynch?

The point is: I see nothing wrong with unvoting when the vote is pointless. That said you didn't answer the question; What reason is there to have an RVS vote at the point he unvoted? (when it clearly achieved nothing).

Reactions to RVS votes, and the way the RVS reasons are phrased, is the way I see most games move into the proper nitty-gritty. How would you move the game forward, if you disagree?

Do I disagree that most games start with RVS? no.

RVS was short in this game. Jam effectively ended it with his post which did not contain a vote amusingly.

What has this got to do with anything?

but I didn't see him bothering to even answer his own questions.

Why would I do that?

@Irao

Quote posts in which I make "a half-hearted attempt to make it look like I'm scum hunting".

Are you feeling the pressure, jam?

Iraon, can you explain the pressure thing?
(I have my opinion on this but want to hear what you say)

Fragger:

Hey Slandaar. It's been explained by Boonskie (#75) & Egg (#99), & I think I get what they're trying to explain. I think I would compare it to say video mafia which I have more experience in, where a scum is more likely to say "what do you want from me" or something along them lines to appeal to town or to try to seem town after a possible slip or something weird that they've said.

I wanted to know your opinion now it has been explained. You somewhat agree?

[Golden Robster]

Creature do something. Even Snarky is being more useful then you.
Slandaar is a stinky wagon.

k then, i'm going to take the bait and ask, why is it a stinky wagon?

Killthestory because all of his reactions and comments feel super genuine and unfakeable.

Smart, you need to expand on this.

Right now I would have to say Irao & Golden Robster are in my preliminary scum pool.

I'll ISO Ness & see what I can derive from the interactions with them & others. Originally I didn't want to address it cause I wanted to see if the interactions between Ness & KAAG were organic. It could very well be a instance of TvT.

I really don't like this post. whenever im scum i like saying town vs town to skate around the instance of actually putting forward an opinion. and i dont want to be lynched so take me out thanks. some people haven't posted yet. why are you so eager to talk about scum pool? town are grappling at straws d1

[Golden Robster]

Slandaar why did you just answer those questions with more questions

i expected a clean town game like in ice cream

why do i not get a sense of that here?

talk to me

what do you think about fragger currently?

and who would you be comfortable with townreading right now?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Slandaar,

What reason is there not to have an RVS vote on when it's 11 to lynch?

The point is: I see nothing wrong with unvoting when the vote is pointless. That said you didn't answer the question; What reason is there to have an RVS vote at the point he unvoted? (when it clearly achieved nothing).

I don't mind the unvoting so much, but there were plenty of possible people who could have taken a vote. Pick a reason and commit. I think people should take positions early so they can be challenged on them. Town's job is to use their vote to sort.

Reactions to RVS votes, and the way the RVS reasons are phrased, is the way I see most games move into the proper nitty-gritty. How would you move the game forward, if you disagree?

Do I disagree that most games start with RVS? no.

RVS was short in this game. Jam effectively ended it with his post which did not contain a vote amusingly.

What has this got to do with anything?

I don't even remotely agree Jam ended it at that point. In no scenario is RVS over when multiple people haven't even posted.

When will you commit to a single read? Here's two for you from me:

Golden Robster: town-lean, doesn't care how he comes across, posting what he darn well chooses
Ness: scum-lean, way too defensive, quotes back the weakest attacks and picks at them

Your turn.

[Egg]

While I'm mostly uninterested in Iroa vs frag, I find myself agreeing with frag but that's mostly the theory discussion about contradictions. I wouldn't be shocked if either of them was scum.

Ozgin, ok we're on the same page then. Must have just been your phrasing that sounded weird or something.

Frag, have you seen Goldrob's scum game or just his town game? Also, have you seen him shit post before?

Creature, you said "here we go" on Page 1. I was mostly trying to figure out if that had to do with anything specific or if it was the game starting in general. And if it was general, was it meant with excitement for the game starting or was it more of a concern for something that may have been coming.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar why did you just answer those questions with more questions

I asked the questions and was not given actual answers hence the questions still stand and are repeated.

i expected a clean town game like in ice cream

why do i not get a sense of that here?

I will be playing differently here. Go and meta me properly if you find this concerning.

what do you think about fragger currently?

Don't Know.

I don't mind the unvoting so much, but there were plenty of possible people who could have taken a vote. Pick a reason and commit. I think people should take positions early so they can be challenged on them. Town's job is to use their vote to sort.

So, you made a bad word choice, it's easier if you just say so instead of going around the point.

I don't even remotely agree Jam ended it at that point. In no scenario is RVS over when multiple people haven't even posted.

This doesn't have anything to do with anything does it?

When will you commit to a single read? Here's two for you from me:

Your turn.

and who would you be comfortable with townreading right now?

I do things in my own time.

I am happy with how things are currently progressing though so will let you know soon.

[Something_Smart]

Killthestory because all of his reactions and comments feel super genuine and unfakeable.

Smart, you need to expand on this.

I like his reactions to Fragger in 80 and 86. After being called fake, he responds first with outrage at being misinterpreted, then with disdain toward Fragger, but he never tries to get Fragger to change his read and he insults Fragger's reaction test. I think scum would respond with either sidestepping the comment or trying to get Fragger to explain.

I also think his push on Ness gives the same "I'm pushing who I think is scummy regardless of what people think about it" feeling that I'm getting from KAAG.

[Creature]

Creature, you said "here we go" on Page 1. I was mostly trying to figure out if that had to do with anything specific or if it was the game starting in general. And if it was general, was it meant with excitement for the game starting or was it more of a concern for something that may have been coming.

Yeah, it was about the game starting in general. I wasn't that excited though.

[Ilikebugs]

Why are people bandwagoning this early?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Best way to get a discussion going.

Note: other opinions are available.

Vote Ness with us?

[Golden Robster]

Why are people bandwagoning this early?

listen,

And I shall have some peace there, for peace comes dropping slow,
Dropping from the veils of the morning to where the cricket sings;
There midnight's all a-glimmer, and noon a purple glow,
And evening full of the linnet's wings.

We bandwagon for a better future

Listen bugsie, who do you think is scum?

[Slandaar]

Creature, you said "here we go" on Page 1. I was mostly trying to figure out if that had to do with anything specific or if it was the game starting in general. And if it was general, was it meant with excitement for the game starting or was it more of a concern for something that may have been coming.

Yeah, it was about the game starting in general. I wasn't that excited though.

Hello Creature.

but I didn't see him bothering to even answer his own questions.

Why would I do that?