Mini 1780 - camn's apartment 2 - Finale

[Marquis]

go back to the wiki

self-meta is necessary because if nobody else is going to draw attention to a glaring flaw in playstyle analysis then you'd better buck up and do it yourself

I don't need the wiki to tell me how unreliable metas are, especially when the player is aware of their meta.

- Xk

awareness and the initiative to change it are two vastly different things

[Aiden Stark]

go back to the wiki

self-meta is necessary because if nobody else is going to draw attention to a glaring flaw in playstyle analysis then you'd better buck up and do it yourself

I don't need the wiki to tell me how unreliable metas are, especially when the player is aware of their meta.

- Xk

awareness and the initiative to change it are two vastly different things

That's true, but only one of them is provable.

- Xk

[Davsto]

Yeah, I think that's the problem with self-meta. It's not scummy, just unreliable; as true as the meta may be, the fact that the player is aware of their own meta in a certain area makes it immediately unreliable.

I'm not sure if I'd be able to count the number of times I brought up me being crap as scum in Paint Mafia as a point.

I don't scumread people for self-meta, but I ignore any advice it gives

[Marquis]

so i have proved my awareness but not that i have the time and dedication to change my meta over a prolonged period of time?

no. tell me what your aim is here. are you just making dissatisfied comments because some people once told you self-meta is bad and that's the level of theory you're comfortable with?

or are you trying to lead into a scumread on me? because if that's the case, i want to know now and so does everyone else.

[Davsto]

Is 778 at me or Xk?

[Marquis]

^ @ xkfyu.

@ dav, i agree that it's unreliable. HOWEVER, self-meta is good in the sense that it can force people to reconcile a read on someone with what they know of them outside of this one game. because a lot of the time, people are content with sticking to stupid arguments when they aren't held accountable for something they know already. performer doesn't know me, but i brought it up for people like pisskop and you who should know by now that scum!me is not [always] just some lame duck, or it should at least make you take the time to re-evaluate based on the meta dimension brought into the discussion.

[Aiden Stark]

so i have proved my awareness but not that i have the time and dedication to change my meta over a prolonged period of time?

Yes.

no. tell me what your aim is here. are you just making dissatisfied comments because some people once told you self-meta is bad and that's the level of theory you're comfortable with?

My opinion of metas, and self metas, are my own, and it stems from my awareness of how utterly unreliable trying to read me, based on meta, would be. It would be incredibly arrogant for me to believe that no one else is capable of manipulating their own meta to fit their needs.

or are you trying to lead into a scumread on me? because if that's the case, i want to know now and so does everyone else.

I haven't decided yet. I certainly don't think you're town just because you say that you are acting like your old town self, though.

- Xk

[pisskop]

Hi, can we rope a thing?

Day 1 should be wrapping up by now.

Look o.o
a Kitty Kat Bar

[Tiresias]

As it stands, my strong townreads are {Antihero, Fate, Pisskop,

DNTTU

},

any particular reason for this?

I thought that the push on pisskop from DRK was townier than not. The substance in the read isn't bad (pisskop bringing up that they weren't scum reading him if they were voting RVS instead while DRK had already expressed suspicion), DRK's emotion when responding to pisskop seemed genuine/in line with what I expect from him as town (#246 felt like genuine excitement at catching scum), and his YGS evaluation felt pretty genuine in and of itself (in particular, assuming that YGS meant that Fate's jump off Davesto was scummy and then reevaluating later; the reasons they gave for them being scum were also pretty solid in and of itself).

yeas

im willing to entertai n it but find it relatively unlikely.

time will sort you guts though, so

This makes sense.

Ugh, bbt did thiiings.

Our kill goes through automatically, so I'm not sure how we prove our role.

I don't have much experiences with psychiatrists, but if true it suggests a pretty strong scum team.

Can I take this as a yes you are an SK and willing to shoot within {Kahlan, Prohawk} then?

Uh yes I'm sure those things happened regarding Fate & Davsto.

Regarding your question on Kahlan: The meta helped improve my read on her - I wasn't just looking at how much she put into there, I was looking at how those games were similar to this one. If she keeps up her excuses about not contributing though, my townread of her will slide like any reasonable person's read should.

Also, how come your head now sounds so much different than the other one? It's a little confusing and very disturbing .

Could you point out a couple of the similarities between the other games you've seen Kahlan play and this one?

Dude, Tire. Why did you claim without any good reason to? I obv don't have as much exp as many players in this game itself , so am I missing something here??

I checked up your role specifics, and it stated you're pro-town...ok. I have a hypothesis on why you claimed like that, but I want to hear your answer first.

My role makes it extremely likely for there to be a Serial Killer in the setup instead of a big, which meant that me outing my role was a very strong piece of evidence in outing YGS as SK and not vig. I also outed it because directing YGS's shot and healing them during the night is much better than just plain lynching them and the former isn't possible without us outing first. Does that make sense?

[Tiresias]

-Doesn't Psych have to live, in order to convert an SK to VT? Yet it's being talked about that if Tire died from YGS, then Tire would successfully convert him. That doesn't sound realistic
-In a 12-person game, there somehow exists an SK and/or Vig? To be honest , I find this laughable . Maybe I'm more sheltered but the numbers don't add up. I thought I was coming into a balanced game...camn, this isn't a balanced game either??

Psychiatrist does have to live in order to convert SK to VT, hence why I want the promise from YGS to shoot in {Prohawk, Kahlan} before we move on. If they don't shoot in that group of people and we die, they get lynched automatically. If they do shoot in that group, then they survive and become town (and we will have the advantage at that point).

The 12 player game balance is likely balanced towards old balance theory (aka before 13p), which means yep, SK is possible.

@Tire if you're town you need to seriously reanalyze. Call me the most insane scumhunter ever, but people who put in effort and try their best to consistently put in substance , should not be prioritized as lynches over lurkers. This is incredibly scummy what you're doing, and it's not made me townread you.

I prioritize lynching scum by how likely I find that they are scum; whether they are posting or not doesn't matter much to me.
However, I'll acknowledge that your latest posting at least looks like genuine effort, and would be willing to give you a little room as a result. I think that we're probably having trouble understanding each other here, so I'll try to make an effort in fixing that after I'm done catching up.

I'm all for leaving YGS alive to convert, even if it means my death

Well, unless Bella can talk some sense into that slot.

Unvote:
Vote: Performer

YGS shoots in {Prohawk, Kahlan} or the slot can't live; otherwise, they could shoot me and then say that the scumkill was theirs, hence no confirmed town.

So Tire is a Psychaiatrist who can turn YGS town? Why are ppl trying to lynch YGS again?

We aren't.

I'm all for leaving YGS alive to convert, even if it means my death

I nominate Kahlan and Performer Prohawk to get SK'd

This is kinda weird.

Why?

[Tiresias]

Day 1 should be wrapping up by now.

Patience.

There's no reason why Day can't run for a little while longer to allow people time to catch up and do things, especially considering that we've already found one scum today and we have a lynch + an SK kill to figure out. We also need YGS's word that they will shoot one of {Kahlan, Prohawk} and that they are an SK before we end the day no matter what.

[Tiresias]

i agree with anti but i don't want to vote either of them today

i'm not rereading i'm just assuming anti's posts capture the gist of what's important

anti vote someone else and i'll sheep you

I'm not really sure I understand where you're coming from re: your read on us.
Do you think that we are scum because of things we've posted or because of Anti's setup spec?

[Tiresias]

Performer, I have two questions that I'd like you to focus on when you get the chance:

I have a great respect for the heads of YGS, but I'm starting to see good points I can agree with regarding YGS.

What points are you referring to here?

Secondly, what similarities did you see in Kahlan's other completed games versus her game here?

[ProHawk]

Willing to die but then trying to direct the kill? Maybe I'm reading it wrong...

Also, I'm just going to come out and say this because I have had my name floated as a kill candidate. You prob shouldn't kill me.

[Tiresias]

Oh and still no wagons forming.

Scum paradise this is. But y'all just chugga along, doing what ya gotta do, and when you wanna actually start progressing the game.

Come find me.

Can I ask why you're complaining about the lack of wagons and the lack of progression without any attempt to, you know, actually do either of those things in your post.

If you're gonna bitch about a problem, don't be the one helping to cause it.

Plus, we

do

have over a week left. Don't sweat it.

Why didn't you vote YGS here?

So YGS probably is an SK because I doubt camn would pull the same "psych but no sk" twice

Or Tire isn't a psych but that seems a bizarre fakeclaim with little prompting

What is your read on us?

Yeah, I think that's the problem with self-meta. It's not scummy, just unreliable; as true as the meta may be, the fact that the player is aware of their own meta in a certain area makes it immediately unreliable.

I'm not sure if I'd be able to count the number of times I brought up me being crap as scum in Paint Mafia as a point.

I don't scumread people for self-meta, but I ignore any advice it gives

What is your read on Marquis?

[Tiresias]

Willing to die but then trying to direct the kill? Maybe I'm reading it wrong...

Also, I'm just going to come out and say this because I have had my name floated as a kill candidate. You prob shouldn't kill me.

If you're willing to soft claim, you might as well full claim.

[Tiresias]

Willing to die but then trying to direct the kill?

The acknowledgement was that YGS being healed was worth it for town even if YGS decided to vig Fate as town, but it'd be far better if YGS let their kill be directed and didn't just vig a townie.

[pisskop]

If ygs is going to be town they should be allowed to play to their new wincon.

Directing their kill is unnescessary as they wouldnt be a threat.



somebody tell me how they would be obligated to play to an SK wincon tonight.

[pisskop]

If ygs is going to be town they should be allowed to play to their new wincon.

Directing their kill is unnescessary as they wouldnt be a threat.



somebody tell me how they would be obligated to play to an SK wincon tonight.

[Tiresias]

If ygs is going to be town they should be allowed to play to their new wincon.

Directing their kill is unnescessary as they wouldnt be a threat.



somebody tell me how they would be obligated to play to an SK wincon tonight.

YGS isn't town until I heal them and I receive confirmation that they are healed.
If I die tonight (aka scum kills me, YGS shoots Fate), then YGS remains a SK.

[Tiresias]

Willing to die but then trying to direct the kill? Maybe I'm reading it wrong...

Also, I'm just going to come out and say this because I have had my name floated as a kill candidate. You prob shouldn't kill me.

If you're willing to soft claim, you might as well full claim.

Not interested, ProHawk?

[pisskop]

No?

Theyd have to RB you.

[pisskop]

Well, if the action occurs after shooting, which is something I might just ask via pm, then sure.

[Tiresias]

YGS isn't town until I heal them and I receive confirmation that they are healed.
If I die tonight (aka scum kills me, YGS shoots Fate), then YGS remains a SK.

The extension of this thought is that it's to our best interest to force YGS to townside regardless of whether they want to or not since there is a legitimate strategy in attempting to make a pro-scum kill and still attempt to win as an SK.

[Tiresias]

Well, if the action occurs after shooting, which is something I might just ask via pm, then sure.

The action does occur after shooting.