Open 633: Near Vanilla-GAME OVER

[Nosferatu]

why would you be worried about being lynched rn lol

I said I wasn't.

why'd you even mention it tho

[OceanWind]

Hey

Ocean

– why is it that you’ve read everyone’s ISO at 143 and yet I don’t see any mention of me at all in your reads list?

I seem to have missed you. I liked the early attack on Nosferatu + the rest of this post. Probably town.

[OceanWind]

I didn't actually really read anything between my earlier posts and 91. I skimmed since I had a minute to jump on at night (which I rarely do. Feel free to check my entire posting history and see how many times I post >5PM if you're curious) and wasn't about to read a bunch of back and forth but was willing to respond to a direct question.

Ugh I want to vote you very badly, but I fear you may just be overeager town.

Assuming this is true, did you really expect anyone to check your entire posting history, realize that you don't post after 5PM, and therefore that you skimmed and answered a direct question? The fact that you don't see that the suspicion of you is reasonable is more scummy than your play up to that point.

[acryon]

He actually seems to be jumping on low-hanging fruit and seems overly concerned with his standing amongst the town.

Hey it's put up or shut up time! In your next post you need to provide a quote that shows me being "overly concerned with his standing amongst the town".

GO!

Oh I didn't see this but that's easy:

Magna is going to be annoying as hell, but, unfortunately, is town.

that was quick.

So what do you think that means then?

Indirectly about you, but still about you.

Hey

Ocean

– why is it that you’ve read everyone’s ISO at 143 and yet I don’t see any mention of me at all in your reads list?

Your KT policy lynch thing was fine. I don't agree with it, but it never really pinged me.

Hmm then what do you got buddy?

why would you be worried about being lynched rn lol

I said I wasn't.

why'd you even mention it tho

Because I had a couple votes and words of suspicion from several of the most active players.

I didn't actually really read anything between my earlier posts and 91. I skimmed since I had a minute to jump on at night (which I rarely do. Feel free to check my entire posting history and see how many times I post >5PM if you're curious) and wasn't about to read a bunch of back and forth but was willing to respond to a direct question.

Ugh I want to vote you very badly, but I fear you may just be overeager town.

Assuming this is true, did you really expect anyone to check your entire posting history, realize that you don't post after 5PM, and therefore that you skimmed and answered a direct question? The fact that you don't see that the suspicion of you is reasonable is more scummy than your play up to that point.

No of course not, but I will continue to stand by the idea that looking at my 6-post ISO and being suspicious is very stupid. There are real things to talk about and be suspicious of in the game of mafia; someone who has literally only posted 6 times and within a period of 12 hours is not one of them.

[acryon]

I didn't actually really read anything between my earlier posts and 91. I skimmed since I had a minute to jump on at night (which I rarely do. Feel free to check my entire posting history and see how many times I post >5PM if you're curious) and wasn't about to read a bunch of back and forth but was willing to respond to a direct question.

Ugh I want to vote you very badly, but I fear you may just be overeager town.

Assuming this is true, did you really expect anyone to check your entire posting history, realize that you don't post after 5PM, and therefore that you skimmed and answered a direct question? The fact that you don't see that the suspicion of you is reasonable is more scummy than your play up to that point.

My response re: the 5 PM was more for the sake of offering fairly definitive proof of the theory being stupid, but it was and is stupid all on its own.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh I didn't see this but that's easy:

Magna is going to be annoying as hell, but, unfortunately, is town.

that was quick.

So what do you think that means then?

Indirectly about you, but still about you.

Hey

Ocean

– why is it that you’ve read everyone’s ISO at 143 and yet I don’t see any mention of me at all in your reads list?

That's interesting. Explain in more detail how you draw that conclusion - the first is quote where I'm asking jmolla for his conclusion on the matter. The second quote is a direct question to Ocean as to why he excluded me from a reads list. Both of which are clearly looking to assess other players by their analysis / lack of analysis as it were.

I like that you also gloss over my discussion with Imp where I make it clear that I don't think Lowell's Town read on me is reasonable. Which is exactly the opposite.

Vote absolutely stays.

[jmo16mla]

Acronym and Jmoe ping me very early on. ISOing now

I'm not sure about you, but when im scum, i typically give out town cards pretty easily. do you?

[acryon]

That's interesting. Explain in more detail how you draw that conclusion - the first is quote where I'm asking jmolla for his conclusion on the matter. The second quote is a direct question to Ocean as to why he excluded me from a reads list. Both of which are clearly looking to assess other players by their analysis / lack of analysis as it were.

I like that you also gloss over my discussion with Imp where I make it clear that I don't think Lowell's Town read on me is reasonable. Which is exactly the opposite.

Vote absolutely stays.

You're still prodding for information regarding someone's view of you. jmo clearly took some issue with Lowell said you were town, and you questioned him on it. Regardless of your stated motive, this is you being concerned with someone's having an issue with a townread on you. As for your discussion with Imp, what else were you going to say? Saying the townread is reasonable would just make you look ignorant and/or scummy. Only reason you had anything to say was because someone asked you directly about it. See 55 of yours which was after Lowell's but made no mention of you feeling Lowell's read was unreasonable.

In the case of Ocean, there were plenty of things in his readslist you could have asked about, but instead were only interested in where you stood on it. If your goal was just to assess his analysis, why not start with what he did do and not what he didn't do? (which also happens to be about you)

What else you got? Oh and you don't have to keep telling me the vote is staying. I'll know when you take it off

[MagnaofIllusion]

What else you got? Oh and you don't have to keep telling me the vote is staying. I'll know when you take it off

What else do you think I need again? Your play has been suspect enough so far I'm satisfied you are a good place to vote scume. Lol, you act as if scum can't be caught purely because you only had 6 posts and it was in your first 24 hours of posting. Hint - scum can and do get caught early on. I can show you a game where I caught scum in their very first post of the game.

You fluffed through your posts until I called you out on it. Suddenly - WHAM - active Acryon. Scum reaction IMO.

[acryon]

What else you got? Oh and you don't have to keep telling me the vote is staying. I'll know when you take it off

What else do you think I need again? Your play has been suspect enough so far I'm satisfied you are a good place to vote scume. Lol, you act as if scum can't be caught purely because you only had 6 posts and it was in your first 24 hours of posting. Hint - scum can and do get caught early on. I can show you a game where I caught scum in their very first post of the game.

You fluffed through your posts until I called you out on it. Suddenly - WHAM - active Acryon. Scum reaction IMO.

lol "you fluffed through your first 6 posts of the game and then once the game actually got going, BAM you are active. Scum. Got em." It's almost as if I contribute more when there is more to talk about and it isn't the literal first 24 hours of the game.

Now let's get back to actually finding scum.

[acryon]

You fluffed through your posts until I called you out on it. Suddenly - WHAM - active Acryon. Scum reaction IMO.

Also it may be worth pointing out that there is no winning in this scenario. If I continued to fluff (which I never would) or lurked (which I also never would), then I would be called scum for that. Starting to post more in my second day of the game is NAI at all.

[MagnaofIllusion]

lol "you fluffed through your first 6 posts of the game and then once the game actually got going, BAM you are active. Scum. Got em." It's almost as if I contribute more when there is more to talk about and it isn't the literal first 24 hours of the game.

Now let's get back to actually finding scum.

You keep suggesting it was the first 24 hours of the game when I called you out. It clearly isn't. The game started on Saturday so it is at least 48 hours old when you made your first post. It may be your first 24 hours but there was 2 full days of dayplay to discuss when you first posted.

But once again - you act as if scum aren't caught right off the bat. It happens so blindly dismissing it isn't going to make you look less like scum.

[acryon]

lol "you fluffed through your first 6 posts of the game and then once the game actually got going, BAM you are active. Scum. Got em." It's almost as if I contribute more when there is more to talk about and it isn't the literal first 24 hours of the game.

Now let's get back to actually finding scum.

You keep suggesting it was the first 24 hours of the game when I called you out. It clearly isn't. The game started on Saturday so it is at least 48 hours old when you made your first post. It may be your first 24 hours but there was 2 full days of dayplay to discuss when you first posted.

"2 full days of dayplay to discuss" is I think giving far too much credit to the content created up to the point of my first post and even for a while after. The game was essentially in RVS, and maybe we disagree on that, but I'd rather not clog up this thread going over it.

Your play this game reads overeager. That can be helpful for town, but if you're not scum, learn when to reign it in or you'll tunnel us straight to hell.

[Imperium]

KT is town.

This was my initial reaction as well, but I've played with him before and his play as town was a lot different although he wasn't under pressure then. I also followed a game where he was mafia and he did very well emulating the lost, confused townie act. So, I'm waiting to see how he actually pushes his reads.

By the way, I think we played together briefly. You're the same Nachomamma8 that was in that multiball game offsite where you were a governor?

While I don't think KT's scum game is weak per se, I do think that it is very one-dimensional. I think that KT is a very reactive player in general, hence a play like this as town makes sense; he's been getting wagoned and mislynched as town a bunch, he's frustrated, he's trying to approach being pressured differently. Whereas as scum, it requires him to take initiative by purposefully overreacting to a meaningless push on him and backing up that overreaction with past experience which is something that I think is pretty uncharacteristic of his scum play. The emotion displayed (feeling uneasy and frustrated early) also lines up pretty solidly with his commentary in the History Mafia PT where he comments that he is less comfortable playing as town than as scum.

It's possible that he's scum, of course; it's not likely that I will have solid solid town reads before the end of the day. But, as of this moment, he's the person that I feel is the least likely to be scum. Reasonable?

And yes, that's me! Good to see you again.

@Ollie:

Why did you wait for an hour to vote?

24/25 <--- who states suspicion only to come back literally an hour later to put a vote down?

Why is it scummy that he came back an hour later to vote?

For the record, I don't think that it's scummy he came back an hour later to vote, just worthy of observation.

[Ollie]

@Ollie:

Why did you wait for an hour to vote?

...

I forgot I found it scummy or something?

I reread the thread later & thought I'd put some pressure on.

[Imperium]

I reread the thread later & thought I'd put some pressure on.

Whoops. Computer is acting a little weird and it's easier to post in chunks as opposed to big walls, so sorry in advance if I ask a question that is answered two posts later

jmo16mla is probably town. From the few posts he made, he picked up on the same things about Lowell that I wanted to ask about (that quick townread on MagnaOfIllusion) and I agree with his perspective of Lowell's case as well.

Is this a significant read if Lowell is town?

So do you find anything suspect about Lowell’s push on KT then? Because I find his summary of how things progressed to be at best a very slanted interpretation of Creeper’s response.

I don't really mind heavily slanted posts in early game; I find that some people push pretty strongly on things that they don't feel so strongly about in an effort to get the game moving, and Lowell's subsequent play (aka notice how he's dropped the read and moved on) supports that's how he was probably playing.

See this is where you lose me. Because the most damning of the exchange at 22-25 between Bella and Ollie is not that it took him an hour after posting 24 to vote in 25. It’s that he only voted for Creeper at all because Bella repeatedly badgered him about his read. And Nosferatu doesn’t address that element in his 73 at all.

Why is the time delay more damning then what I pointed out?

I don't think it's fair to say that the only reason that Ollie voted for Creeper is because Bella badgered him about the read; I feel like it'd be more fair to say that Bella forced him to look seriously at KT. After all, the only commentary Ollie offered on KT when Bella asked him to play seriously was "he's creepy", which was obviously a joke: he could have said that he didn't have a read, and that would have been reasonable, or he could have offered a weak lean one way or another and done nothing about it and it still would have been reasonable. The reason that I thought that the observation about Ollie coming back and voting KT later was the best line of thought to follow in game because it meant that Ollie left the game, came back to the game, and noticed something that he didn't before. The reasoning that he offered (that he decided that adding pressure was better than not) makes sense; the possible scum motivation that I had in mind when pursuing was that he possible looked at the exchange between him and Bella and thought it looked a bit weak and added the vote to make his play line up with his words.

Does that make sense?

-OceanWind is scum. Felt like jumping on the coat-tails of Ollie.

I don't really understand where you're coming from here.
How was OceanWind riding Ollie's coattails? And why would he ride Ollie's coattails?
What do you think of his other points?

Also, why are you reading KTS as town?

As for Church I just really appreciated the support at that time, you know.

This is a natural human tendency, which is probably why Church would make a move like this. Is there a reason you think that he'd be less likely to do this as scum than town?

Acronym and Jmoe ping me very early on. ISOing now

I'm not sure about you, but when im scum, i typically give out town cards pretty easily. do you?

Your play has been fairly one-dimensional up to this point; I find it hard to believe that the only thing that you look for in others is "town reading too early". What do you think about OceanWind's early town reads? What do you think of CoM's post supporting Ollie? What do you think of my early town reads?

You're still prodding for information regarding someone's view of you.

I don't think this means that he's worried about his standing in town.
Would it be suspicious if I asked OceanWind why he left Magna off his reads list?

[Imperium]

You fluffed through your posts until I called you out on it. Suddenly - WHAM - active Acryon. Scum reaction IMO.

I've found that certain players (*cough* Tammy *cough*) tend to get invested in the game when their name is called, and I do think that it's possible acyron found the last few pages more interesting than the first few (which is a view I'd certainly share!).

[Imperium]

ChurchOfMercy is probably my best bet for mafia right now. Very minimal posting with no serious content. I've followed I think two or three games by now containing Albert B. Rampage and he always has more passion as town.

I agree with this.

Vote: ChurchOfMercy

I also disliked their blatant Lowell sheep + attacking you for offering a different viewpoint; it seems more likely to me that Klingon was just taking sides than actually reading Lowell's case as super-duper solid and your defense as scum defending scum; ABR's "I support Ollie and think he's town" also felt a little slimy to me, but that's far less significant than their lack of engagement in general.

[Nosferatu]

Did you think Ollie was scum when you voted him?

[Imperium]

I thought there was a decent chance he could be, yes.

[Ollie]

This is a natural human tendency, which is probably why Church would make a move like this. Is there a reason you think that he'd be less likely to do this as scum than town?

The last day 1 I had on this site I only just survived being the lynch after a mafia hydra went after me & got their buddies who usually play with them to team up. They killed me night 1, fooled their 'town block' & won. The start of this game had a similar feel so I was happy to see Church pop up & say I'm town at that point. But yeah it doesn't make Church town. I suppose that slot is null for me on reflection because there are lots of people who've handed out easy town credit in this game. I need to see more from them.

[kelbris]

vote count 1.02

Bellaphant (0): none
SeshatX (0): none
KainTepes (0): none
jmo16mla (2): Ollie, killthestory
MagnaofIllusion (0): none
Imperium (0): none
Killthestory (0): none
ChurchOfMercy (hydra, Klingoncelt and Albert B Rampage) (3): Oceanwind, Lowell, Imperium
Lowell (1): jmo16mla
Nosferatu (0): none
acryon (2): MagnaofIllusion, killthestory
OceanWind (2): KTthecreeper, acryon
KTthecreeper (0): none
Ollie (1): Nosferatu
With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.
day 1 has begun, it will end in (expired on 2016-04-16 19:01:46)

[kelbris]

Can people please find a way to differentiate between KTthecreeper and KainTepes when making votes? I just want to be sure I am puting the votes where they belong, rather then mixing the ones meant for Kain with the ones meant for KT. Thanks

[Bellaphant]

Yo,

Sorry, I'm rusty at this so I was maybe not being as definite as I could've been. I did initially think Ollie's response to the vote was iffy,as if he'd come back to back his point up, in order to look more 'town', but I can accept that it was an after thought. His recent posting has also been better, although I dunno if he's confident enough as scum to make the voting joke he just made. Like, it's super cheeky.

@ollie, can you link me to a recent scum game?

In terms of votes on KT, iirc he was a day 1 mislynch the game I played with him, although I'm glad to say he's settled in a bit. I wasn't trying to be vague, 'one of the votes on him is scum and I'm not saying which', but 'due to my past experience with KT, I can easily see scum pushing a mislynch and with four votes, it's probable that one may be'.

However, I'm also super dissapointed with the hydra.

VOTE: CoM

@killthestory, your reads list wasn't half bad, can you come chat to me?
@ocean, I'm curious as to your responses to 215. Also, do you have any questions for me?

[kelbris]

prodding KainTepes and SeshatX. If they do not respond within 24 hours in-thread, then I shall replace them. Thanks to Ollie for bringing this to my attention.