Mini 1774: Formation of America's Mafiascum - Perfect Town W

[Persivul]

P-edit, um Peri, why are you so worried.

I'm not at all worried. As noted, I welcome her pushing me on nothing, as I know how I'll flip if it gets to that. I think Ranger v. Pers wagons could do town a lot of good.

[Dierfire]

@itlepip

Wait what about the Window Attack wagon?

Was this for me? I am referring to this:

I still don't see a reason for SirCakez to avoid that wagon if they were planning on killing Window Attack anyway unless he had partners there.

[Ranger]

He isn't null. In my mind, which I've fully laid out the reasoning for, I am fairly certain that your slot is scum.

My question is more what makes beeboy different from the others. What makes beeboy a hard push? Because from what I picked up in this thread, it sounded like he was an easy push. This also fits with my experience with beeboy as a player. Town or scum, he is an easy push. So what makes him not an easy push?

What makes beeboy not a null slot? Same as above: general consensus seemed to have beeboy as null. This fits my impression of where beeboy typically is as both alignments. The point I'm making isn't that beeboy is town. I already know that by virtue of having inherited his role. The point I'm making is that you have no explanation separating why Klingoncelt is different from beeboy, why Klingoncelt is an easy null push, whereas beeboy isn't.

And you still don't, because the entirety of your response is, "because I said so". Which is why I asked in the first place. If you had made a case on beeboy, how hard would it have been to have just quoted it in front of me? To show me why beeboy is supposed to be scum, to show me why beeboy isn't an easy push, whereas Klingoncelt is?

What posts?

1051 does not come from scum. Period. End of discussion, it is not a scum post, ever. Let's humor you and say scum would potentially post something like that as a one-off for town credit, and then never follow through on it. Well, then, 1055 shows he's absolutely serious. That's not faked. Especially not given that I understood some of the sentiment behind it. I didn't quite get why he was so drastically opposed to me, but I had at least some clue, so I know he was not posting that for manipulation. He also would not think like that as scum. The only case for him thinking that way is if he's town, because I've only berated him as town. As town, he has reason to not want to go through that again. So he has reason to not want it again. 1097 gave exactly the right answer, too. He thinks I'm town, makes sense if my scum game wasn't the issue which it apparently wasn't. He gave the general idea of why. It's simply town.

Plus, reading through the early game phase: I have seen Firebringer troll as town before. He comes from a site where trolling in the RVS is the norm. This matches his town trolling perfectly. I'd have to double-check some past games to see what his scum trolling is like, but I'm fairly certain his scum trolling is inherently different from his town trolling, and his town trolling was...well,

town

.

Same as above.

I liked 1057. 1084 also looked town to me. 1085/1086 also gave me town vibes, but as I said: I don't know Alchemist21. They look town, but I don't know what he's like when scum, thus, why he's not a stronger townread.

Can you give concrete meta here?

Iso Suzune in Suikoden. (The link can be found near the top of my Game History, it was one of my first games on here.)

Kill has been a huge influence on this game, how in the hell did you forget about that slot?

Oh, you know...because I'm a

replacement

who

hasn't read the game

, especially not as of that point.

Also how have I improved in your readlist when I didn't join the game until day 2 and you are on page 7?

That wasn't you going up.

That was Persivul going

down

.

[Persivul]

You are my gut town read and you are making me worried and when I am worried reads change.

Really? I'm worried all the time. Doesn't mean my reads change all the time. I'm worried about your kinda sorta secret power that you won't explain...I'm worried because you weren't on ANY of the cakez, the WA CW, or the Shiro lynches...if you're still alive tomorrow after kinda claiming I'll be worried...

[Suzune]

You are my gut town read and you are making me worried and when I am worried reads change.

Really? I'm worried all the time. Doesn't mean my reads change all the time. I'm worried about your kinda sorta secret power that you won't explain...I'm worried because you weren't on ANY of the cakez, the WA CW, or the Shiro lynches...if you're still alive tomorrow after kinda claiming I'll be worried...

You are right I was not on the Shiro train. Remember in my dream Shiro was town when we quick lynched. So I felt hesitant as though my dream was trying to tell me that the pieces were being put together wrong. I think it would be fair for you to be worried. If I am still alive tomorrow, I will have to full claim. It will not be worth being sneaky anymore at that point.

[Ranger]

So, you haven't seen this behavior in me as scum before. You've seen my reads change over time and pages as scum.

No. It's the exact same behavior, just compacted into a shorter timeframe. Looking at my post, I can understand how it can be interpreted as me saying the sudden turnaround was a problem by virtue of being sudden, but that was not what I meant to say. I meant the sudden turnaround itself was the problem, yes, but not by virtue of being sudden (the word 'sudden' was a descriptor OF the turnaround, not part of the noun), by virtue of

how

the turnaround came about.

The WAY you turned around on my slot here is literally identical to your scum play, and how you've turned around on players (like me) before. The way your reads changed here is practically deja vu to the way your reads changed in Open 612. Timeframe is irrelevant.

Seems a little like OMGUS...

Dare you to, so much as once, find me OMGUS someone as scum.

DARE you.

I'll wait. I have ten scum games. Find one where I attack a player after they have attacked me, rather than vice-versa. (I always attack

first

as scum. Always. And can show it in post numbers, 100% of the time.) It shouldn't be that hard, should it? Ten games isn't much to search through, and they're all listed clearly on my game history.

I don't OMGUS as scum. People

accuse

me of OMGUSing, sure, but it never is. You'd be scum if it were a turnaround on any other slot, too. It just so happened to be a turnaround on my slot.

P-edit, um Peri, why are you so worried.

He's worried because he knows he's playing his scum game and that I can point out

why

he's playing his scum game. That's why his first post upon realizing I was beeboy was, quite literally, "oh, snap, Ranger's in the slot I was about to try and mislynch".

[Suzune]

I forewarned everyone but I feel pretty good about it. Although his reaction was weird to it. So something to watch. I do not believe I claimed inventor anywhere. Where are you puling information from?

Pip answer this

[Ranger]

I'm worried all the time.

This is absolute BS, by the way.

Persivul is

never

worried as town.

There's also how he's responding twice to the same post.

[Ranger]

Off of recent content,
{Firebringer, Nosferatu, Killthestory, Suzune}
{Alchemist21, Dierfire}
{Klingoncelt, BBMolla}
{itlepip}
{Persivul}

Reread page count hasn't changed because you've been posting too much for me to read.

[Ranger]

{Firebringer, Nosferatu, Killthestory, Suzune}
{Alchemist21, Dierfire}
{BBMolla}
{Klingoncelt}
{itlepip}
{Persivul}

Eight.

[Ranger]

Through 11.

{Firebringer, Nosferatu, Killthestory, Suzune}

I'm just going to reemphasize. My readslist hasn't changed. But I feel the need, right now, to comment on these names. They're all, 100%, town. I'm never lynching any of them, ever. They've all earned their spots for different reasons. (If necessary, I'll explain, but only after I'm fully caught up.) Basically, I'm firmly of the opinion that if we lynch outside these names, we can, 100%, win the game. With 10 alive, and two scum left, worst case scenario, there's still two of them alive come 6p mylo. If the game reaches that point, at least one lives to see 4p mylo. (

Absolutely no no-lynching!

They're town, they'll just die, and you'll be in the same situation, just without the voice of the conftown helping.)

We can basically win the game if we trust this.

It's also worth mentioning:

{Alchemist21, Dierfire}
{BBMolla}
{Klingoncelt}

These? These are all townreads. The only way I could see us losing this game is if I'm wrong on one of Alchemist21 or Dierfire. (Basically: mislynch me. Lynch itlepip and Persivul. If the game's not over, then I was wrong on one of my scumreads and at least one townread. Klingoncelt's the weakest townread, so lynch her. If the game's still not over and one scum lives, you've got a mylo of {one conftown player, Alchemist21, Dierfire, BBMolla}, in which I'd currently lynch BBMolla. We've got a

lot

of lynches right now, so being wrong there is the only way we could lose.)

I'm still reading the game. I'll let you know what changes as I read. By the time I'm done, hopefully I can add at least one if not two names to the top tier, turning an almost certain win into a guaranteed win. But this is already a solid start.

[Persivul]

Basically: mislynch me. Lynch itlepip and Persivul.

We agree on something. We three should be the lynch pool today.

[itlepip]

Ewww peri.

I want to make something absolutely clear here. Fire, Nos, Suzune, and Kill are all confirmed town and unless you get to 3p lylo don't ever ever ever lynch any of them. Those were exactly my towncircle and the fact that Ranger parroted them before Ranger got to my replacement catchup means that they are basically just confirmed. Fire and King are a tier above Nos and Suzune but it shouldn't matter. Ranger ignoring alignments for a second, because ftr Ranger right now is looking at the game through a town perspective, just keep in mind that is reasonably easy for scum to do just on a catchup, wuv woo cause those reads are fucking godlike.

[Ranger]

That's one scummy freakin' post.

This looks like scum, who knows that SirCakez is flipping scum, and prematurely painting Firebringer as scum for a fence-sit.

Speaking of reads on SirCakez: Alchemist21's read is really good, but I don't know how he treats scumbuddies when scum. I've got a similar issue from Dierfire, but I'm just about ready to move Dierfire up a tier, because 437 was good analysis around the SirCakez wagon, rather than just a reasonless push.

[Ranger]

Ranger ignoring alignments for a second, because ftr Ranger right now is looking at the game through a town perspective, just keep in mind that is reasonably easy for scum to do just on a catchup, wuv woo cause those reads are fucking godlike.

I'll take it as a compliment. <3

[Ranger]

*facepalm*

I just now realized itlepip

is

BBMolla. (It wasn't listed on the front page.)

{Firebringer, Nosferatu, Killthestory, Suzune}
{Alchemist21, Dierfire}
{itlepip, Klingoncelt}
{Persivul}

This is what I'm working from right now.

I need to work out which of {itlepip, Klingoncelt} is scum. I think one is, and the other isn't, but now I'm not as sure. I'm almost ready to promote Dierfire, and Alchemist remains a strong townread.

[Ranger]

Off of page 20, I

would

guess Molla's the town (it also helps that he was early on the Window wagon, whereas Klingoncelt voted when SirCakez already had a lot of votes and was helping strengthen the Window wagon), and itlepip's recent posting

does

remind me of our first game together where I scumread him and he was town (I think, anyway? Need to check which game it actually was), but it's not absolutely solid.

[Ranger]

489 and 491 are both bad posts from Persivul for the record.

[Ranger]

511 was a scum hammer, too.

[Ranger]

540 was a scum bandwagon vote as well, and, frankly, I'm surprised people didn't call out Persivul for making the same sort of vote that ended up getting SirCakez lynched.

[Ranger]

(A mental note to self is that I need to review Klingoncelt's play in Suikoden. This might be the same thing that happened there, her not looking like scum to me but her being the last scum anyway.)

[Ranger]

556 was also a scum-Persivul knowing why Window was taken out.

[Ranger]

(And before you ask, "But if he saw that, why would he point that out as scum?" The answer is: experience tells me he would.)

[Ranger]

Did I post the readslist?
{Firebringer, Nosferatu, Killthestory, Suzune, Dierfire}
{Alchemist21}
{itlepip}
{Klingoncelt}
{Persivul}

Because this is where I'm at, as of 23.

[Alchemist21]

Btw Ranger, at this point it's ok if you don't get an answer on what Beeboy voted, as at worst it would have tied the vote with Taxation and I would have had to assume Taxation won through RNG.

For people who were wondering why I was interested in the protest votes, I think No Quartering was something Town could have voted for but scum would have never voted for, and was hoping that scum players would claim voting for it for towncred. I was hoping that would lead to a discrepency between the claimed protests and what actually won, and we could have a greatly reduced lynchpool where we knew there was a false claim.

Unfortunately that didn't happen. In retrospect I probably should have suggested scum wouldn't vote no quartering when I first asked for claims to incentivize scum to lie. At least now I can reasonably say Pip is Town because of this.