Newbie 1691 - Game Over

[Eggman]

Aw, man... Hope you might be able to dig yourself out of this, replacement.
(Well, it was a fun game, I have to admit! I just didn't know what to post, since it seemed we were all waiting on SiW...)

[Jackal711]

Due to the current gamestate, deadline and prod timers are suspended until the replacement is found.
Please do still remain active if possible.

[SummerInWonderland]

So sorry guys...
I moved out of res today so I was super busy.
Smith I wanted your thoughts on KAGGs post?

One thing I wanted to mention KAGG is the whole "I am really trying hard and want us to win" and "If I was scum I wouldn't have done all this work" Kinda stuff... Like it doesn't mean anything because there is so many possibilities. It isn't helping your case at all but then again its not making it worse. I totally get it either way I am just saying it doesn't help me see you as town I am having a really hard time finding out of the three (YA, KAAG and Egg) who the two scum are....
I am trying to understand why the best game approach for scum would be to bus your partner basically right off the bat? idk does this happen in other games? I don't see the benefit.
KAGG you have a lot in your post that I am just going over through rn

[mhsmith0]

I think the fundamental questions wrt kaag are:

1) has he actually accomplished anything in this game that wolf!kaag (I'm trying to get away from scum terminology btw) wouldn't have done?
2) was ya's push on egg truly just distancing,where egg was never really in danger?

I'm having a really hard time answering "yes" to either of these questions, much less both. Some of kaags other points are compelling, and I still need to go through his references. But I'm currently having a hard time seeing ya-egg. Not because of rng stuff, but because of the way the game has gone. If this wasn't a hammer game (I.e. It's just most voted at day end) my vote would be kaag. But I'm not 100% yet.

I'll also note that effort is not necessarily alignment indicative. Wolf!kaag would be as motivated to fight his correct lynch as town!kaag would be to fight his mislynch. I admire the work that kaag has but into this game. But that effort doesn't make him town.

That said, the reads list stuff was also interesting. I need specifically to mull that point over.

[mhsmith0]

@Jackal Am I allowed to hold off on posting my substantive case until Eggman's replacement? I have a case to make on KAAG/Eggman but obviously what they say makes a substantial difference.

How much of it depends on what they have to say? I would think that most of the case will revolve around what's already happened this game. If it's specific to what New Egg has to say, ok, but I'd generally prefer at least some of your content to come in ahead of time.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I usually work from home, but this week (and for the next few weeks) I'm going into the office every day to train a new starter.

Means I don't have the same amount of time to be as active as usual. But I will address further points this evening.

[YawningAngel]

@Jackal Am I allowed to hold off on posting my substantive case until Eggman's replacement? I have a case to make on KAAG/Eggman but obviously what they say makes a substantial difference.

How much of it depends on what they have to say? I would think that most of the case will revolve around what's already happened this game. If it's specific to what New Egg has to say, ok, but I'd generally prefer at least some of your content to come in ahead of time.

Well, I could certainly finish up KAAG pt. 2. I could attack old egg, but I don't really want to prime his replacement's defence.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I am trying to understand why the best game approach for scum would be to bus your partner basically right off the bat? idk does this happen in other games? I don't see the benefit.
KAGG you have a lot in your post that I am just going over through rn

My understanding of bussing (and as you could see if you looked in the 1684 scum-thread I posted...I don't like to bus as scum) is that it is best if done early and hard.

Which is exactly what YA did.

Why? Well, scum only need one player in LYLO to win, and the player who drove the scum lynch gets plenty of town cred.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

1) has he actually accomplished anything in this game that wolf!kaag (I'm trying to get away from scum terminology btw) wouldn't have done?
2) was ya's push on egg truly just distancing,where egg was never really in danger?

I'm having a really hard time answering "yes" to either of these questions, much less both. Some of kaags other points are compelling, and I still need to go through his references. But I'm currently having a hard time seeing ya-egg. Not because of rng stuff, but because of the way the game has gone. If this wasn't a hammer game (I.e. It's just most voted at day end) my vote would be kaag. But I'm not 100% yet.

I am curious if you think I have accomplished less than the other two townies. Both yourself and SIW have been voting for a towny at the end of D1/D2 (note that as I would have hammered Ircher, I am not saying I'm "better" in any way, just equal! )

If YA has really pushed Eggman, why is Eggman, the lurker, still alive? Surely a lurker of epic proportions is an easy lynch if someone is really trying. I'll tell you why: YA's effort on D1 was far less than my push on Radja, and on D2, far less than yours on Ircher.

The arguments you are making is exactly why bussing works. And if I had Eggman as a partner, it's what I'd have done too!

[KickAssAndGiggle]

@Jackal Am I allowed to hold off on posting my substantive case until Eggman's replacement? I have a case to make on KAAG/Eggman but obviously what they say makes a substantial difference.

How much of it depends on what they have to say? I would think that most of the case will revolve around what's already happened this game. If it's specific to what New Egg has to say, ok, but I'd generally prefer at least some of your content to come in ahead of time.

Well, I could certainly finish up KAAG pt. 2. I could attack old egg, but I don't really want to prime his replacement's defence.

Translation: I'm not getting any credit for bussing him so I may as well stop.

[YawningAngel]

Hardly. Whoever is play Eggman is gonna swing for me out of the gate. Why give them ammunition?

[mhsmith0]

[mhsmith0]

Hardly. Whoever is play Eggman is gonna swing for me out of the gate. Why give them ammunition?

Just to clarify, you're really playing this for the voting audience (me and Summer), so what ammunition you do or don't give Egg shouldn't particularly matter, since either way you'll be levelling accusations his replacement will need to address.

Unless you want to try and sell KAAG to us before the replacement comes in, and convince us to deal with you and New Egg on D4.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Considering his "push" on Eggman, I'm not too worried about YA's case.

[mhsmith0]

Considering his "push" on Eggman, I'm not too worried about YA's case.

OTOH, if Egg is his scum-buddy, maybe he'll be trying harder for you?

[mhsmith0]

As a side note, to the players still around (SIW/KAAG/YA), I will say that my first LYLO has been pretty entertaining. I'd happily play again with any or all of you three.

[mhsmith0]

And as an extreme side note, I'll share the best summary anyone has ever made of my first graveyard thread as wolf (wolf-buddy crunkus, who is awesome btw, lost in 2:1 LYLO but came OH SO CLOSE to pulling it out )

Spoiler: gif summary

[QUOTE=Cron;277123]

EVERYONE IN GRAVEYARD CHAT

(Soah)

(Trafficone)

(IAWY) (Cron)

(Lord)

(SMITH)

This was us for 3 days. Lol. Crunkus was howling.[/QUOTE]

I have no idea what is going on in graveyard right now. Hopefully someone there is having a fun time watching us all.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Considering his "push" on Eggman, I'm not too worried about YA's case.

OTOH, if Egg is his scum-buddy, maybe he'll be trying harder for you?

He can try, but to make a case one needs evidence. His D1 case was full of "examples" of me being defensive, with links to posts where I simply wasn't.

At this point, I want him to go all-out: if you're seriously thinking of voting me, ideally you will read YA's case (feel free to go back and read his KAAG On D1 case: post 1186) and see that it is totally made up and essentially reaching. At this stage, YA making a case on me will likely be my best defense and our best chance of catching him. I'd be more concerned if he just kept quiet!

If I wasn't so sure you were town, your case would have pinged me; it's the type of case that scum make on townies:

- no firm evidence (point 1: my reading people on their language early D1...or "playing Mafia" as it's also known )
- comparing meta from Open games with Newbie games
- ignoring the opinions of confirmed townies (although I give you credit for drawing attention to the fact it was explicit)
- points based on misreading (point 7 in your list)

I imagine YA's will be similar. My hope is that when you read it coming from someone else with a vested interest in my lynch, you will see how weak it is.

I mainly have PoE on YA, but unless I'm wrong on you, it's enough. Eggman is the nailed on scum. I've made the case three times and its the best case all game. His replacement can come in and town the place up all day long: it won't change those D2 "read lists".

[YawningAngel]

Why on earth would I omit compelling evidence from a case? Even if I were trying to fail, that would be an obvious error on my part. It's far more probable that I'm telling the truth and just disagree with you about the quality of the evidence.

[Jackal711]

VOTE COUNT 3.3

SummerInWonderland (0) -
YawningAngel (1) - Eggman
mhsmith0 (0) -
Eggman (1) - YawningAngel
KickAssAndGiggle (0) -

Not Voting: KickAssAndGiggle, SummerInWonderland, mhsmith0

With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch.

Activity: Replacing

Eggman

Day 3 deadline is frozen until replacement is found.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Why on earth would I omit compelling evidence from a case? Even if I were trying to fail, that would be an obvious error on my part. It's far more probable that I'm telling the truth and just disagree with you about the quality of the evidence.

Far more probable? I don't really understand what you mean when you say things like that (it's not the first time).

It is binary: unless smith is scum, one of us is. You get that, right? Probable has nothing to do with it. Either I'm scum and your case is correct, or you are and your case is fake. Probable doesn't come into it.

[mhsmith0]

Well, technically it's trinary (or whatever the real name is): YA-Egg, YA-KAAG, or KAAG-Egg. So it's not like you guys couldn't just be fake fighting right now.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

From your point of view I'd agree, but not from mine. I am waiting for the case that keeps being promised from YA but never appears.

I think he's hoping that Mother Theresa herself replaces Eggman...

[mhsmith0]

I'll agree that the case that never comes is somewhat concerning. I don't see the logic for waiting at this point. OTOH, I'm willing to wait and see if it justifies the wait.

[SummerInWonderland]

I am curious if you think I have accomplished less than the other two townies. Both yourself and SIW have been voting for a towny at the end of D1/D2 (note that as I would have hammered Ircher, I am not saying I'm "better" in any way, just equal! )

KAGG I dont think you have accomplished less!
The thing that I go back too is the UTL case- I saw it as scummy how she was acting and you could have saw the same if you were town. Idk theres a lot of things I don't know right now or feel super confident on.

I am wonder though why do think you are alive KAGG if you are town? maybe you have adressed this before, if you have let me know!
basically why do you think the 3 towniest people are still alive/werent NK'd if they are all town?

I have been trying to see possible motives in these things! but idk..