Mini 1782 Game Over

[Titus]

VOTE: Max

I think we might be voting scum v scum, but in case I am wrong, I want pressure on both wagons to force people to decide to pick one or push elsewhere. We got too many prod dodges.

[a plain farmer]

@ Maverick: so it wasn't the slot you didn't like, but the player (referring to Jake). That's understandable. But were you able to salvage anything alignment indicative from the slot?


@ Nos:

I only analyze the posts of my scum reads when I have one, and I tonally read everyone else.

Which of these levels are you at with mhsmith? (or are you still leaning scum on him)


And I realize I'm scumreading Clumsy more than shaddow now.
VOTE: Clumsy

[mhsmith0]

I'll +1 on the "Clumsy hasn't done much of anything at all" observations. I skimmed his ISO from prior newbie games
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=65431
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64996
and he was a lot more aggressive and talkative in each. One was town and one was scum, so it's hardly certain, but the difference here is jarring, and I suspect it's because he's been trying to keep his head down among what's been, let's just say, some aggressive personalities. He hasn't been scum reading anyone, he hasn't been getting into the fray, he's been keeping his head down as much as he can.
There's even been stuff like:

I have my own feelings on this, but I want to hear why you think it's scum first RC. I'll explain my side after.

that never actually got returned to. Debatably his strongest opinion so far this game was

I... think we need to wait Roshar. The intent and claim and whatever is fine, but with all these replacements I think we need to wait on everyone to get in here before a lynch.

or

I think it was about 828. I think the reasoning was that the mod wouldn't interfere if Jake were pressuring scum. I'm not entirely sure I agree with this, just because that really was just too much. It's a game. And I'm not really into this meta reading of the game. Breaks the spirit of the game in my opinion.

which really aren't what you want your major contributions to be.

I'm admittedly a bit nervous about backing a lurker lynch, but his meta doesn't seem lurky at all, which really makes me think that this is deliberate. And it's not just the low post count, it's the lack of content in the posts that he does make. VOTE: Clumsy
This is now L-2 by my count.

[Roshar]

VOTE: Clumsy

L-1

Let's get things moving.

[Clumsy]

Sorry, been busy. Catching up now, will have a response in a bit.

[Clumsy]

Whoa, come back to L-1. Well then. I'll make a bigger post, but real fast, @mh, if I'm going to be honest, I joined 3 games because I was excited and enjoying myself, and then work got busy at the same time. Lame, bad excuse, and doesn't make it okay. But yeah, that's why. Sincere apologies.

[mhsmith0]

I definitely understand busy-ness and over-joining as driving reduced content. But we're pretty well along into D1, and I'm not sure what your thoughts are, what your reads are, etc. It seems to go beyond just over-extension, tbh. But I could be wrong. Looking forward to your defense and your thoughts on the game.

[Clumsy]

Did anyone else read RC's 62 as him faking a town-slip?

lol what the fuck no

^^ this is how I reacted to that. It looked really bad.

I didn't like this either, and I'm still confused as to what the supposed fake town-slip was. It kind of seems like a stretch from APF.

My eyes are throbbing as I read the frst 8 pages.


RC is kund of floating around, and that indicative of him being scummy. But Titus I feel much better about reading.
APF is kind of naughty too. Didnt like much he did.

He has been kind of quiet, which is odd because from the games I've read, he's usually pretty talkative, right? (Not that I can say much on this. >_<)

Just for clarity, is this saying Titus is a town-lean for you?

@Clumsy, first time I read it I was talking to frozen and had my attention there for the most part. Second re-read it felt like you were giving yourself time to look for reason to jump on an existent wagon.

@Clumsy, could you reply to this please? Some of this was in response to your 561

The lipstick thing helped APF get my gender right. And I couldn't help but think of it everytime I read Nosferatu.
Decent vibes on Maverick or myself? Also, did you end up ISOing pregame APF and myself? If so, was there, "something there"?

Oh. I wasn't sure if the lipstick thing was a reference or something I wasn't getting. Nevermind on that then.

That post was about Maverick. But now I'm back to on the fence with him. It's almost exclusively gut though. Something is bothering me about him, and I can't figure it out.

As for the ISO, I did look into it, but didn't find as much as I had hoped. I like your side of it more, but I could see a scum team between you with this used as distancing. What is interesting is that while you're pushing him pretty hard, you stay near the middle of his readlist. He looks kind of passive while under pressure for you, which pings me as somewhat scummy from my (limited) experience.

[Clumsy]

And I realize I'm scumreading Clumsy more than shaddow now.
VOTE: Clumsy

Could you explain why exactly? I can understand, because of my inactivity and the fact that others are thinking the same as you, but I'm wary of the runner up wagon jumping onto the leading wagon.

[Clumsy]

I'll +1 on the "Clumsy hasn't done much of anything at all" observations. I skimmed his ISO from prior newbie games
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=65431
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64996
and he was a lot more aggressive and talkative in each. One was town and one was scum, so it's hardly certain, but the difference here is jarring, and I suspect it's because he's been trying to keep his head down among what's been, let's just say, some aggressive personalities. He hasn't been scum reading anyone, he hasn't been getting into the fray, he's been keeping his head down as much as he can.
There's even been stuff like:

I have my own feelings on this, but I want to hear why you think it's scum first RC. I'll explain my side after.

that never actually got returned to.

How do I explain this well... The best way I can think to explain my feelings here is that Shaddowez seems to be focused on beating people down than building up a case. It seems like a lot of discrediting is his priority. I don't know, maybe that's how he normally plays? It feels like if we're playing a game to get the highest stack of blocks, instead of building his up, he's toppling others down. That's why I have a big scum feeling from him. Make everyone discredited, and it's easier to sway others. I had this whole point better planned out in my head, but that was a week ago and not at 3 a.m.

[Clumsy]

If I'm hung, I want you guys to keep an eye on Maverick for me. Something really sits in the back of my mind with him. I could see a Roshar scum as well. It feels like she just wants a lynch. Could be wrong though, feels a little more genuine than usual.

A few things though. We still have like 6 days. That's a good chunk of time that discussion can happen, especially hearing from the replacements (but also from me and APF. >_<) I just don't want to rush through this lynch and put town behind headed into day 2. More can be done. If the consensus is still me after that, so be it. But I think at least waiting to hear from the replacements is a good idea.

I'll be on for just a little longer tonight, and I'll be on tomorrow morning (I'm gonna be real, probably gonna sleep in till 1 though). If I get an intent to hammer, I'll claim and all. Let me know of any questions you may have as well that I can answer for you.

[Maxous]

unvote

go on then

[Clumsy]

What would you like to know Max?

[Froot Loop]

I second Roshar's question to Huntress.

I feel good about smith's vote on Clumsy, it's not just for being a lurker. I still think Max is the better choice.

VOTE: Clumsy

L-1

Let's get things moving.

Do you mean to a lynch, or is this a pressure vote?

What is town arguing anyway?

it's a bunch of town-aligned players arguing amongst themsleves

[Lowell]

I had to do a double take here because it feels like I recognize none of the players anymore. Am I in the right thread?

[shaddowez]

Apparently I forgot to post here yesterday - will get to it today.

For now, UNVOTE: .

[Lowell]

Clumsy is still the way to go here, gang. Try reading his posts in ISO and determining what his opinions are. I dare you.

[Nosferatu]

@ Nos:

I only analyze the posts of my scum reads when I have one, and I tonally read everyone else.

Which of these levels are you at with mhsmith? (or are you still leaning scum on him)

I'm ignoring him atm

[Roshar]

VOTE: Clumsy

L-1

Let's get things moving.

Do you mean to a lynch, or is this a pressure vote?

Bottom of 958

I was willing to lynch. Still am. I don't buy him being busy. Every single post of his is a, "stay afloat" post. His scum reads are Mav is, "something is bothering me about him, and I can't figure it out". His read on myself is, "I could see a Roshar scum, seems like she just wants a lynch, but I could be wrong". Stop and look at the content he's actually provided in his recent posts. He has flung out a few, "I think these people may be scummy" but has zero content with which to back it up. My take? He's got nothing. It's really hard making cases at people when you know they're all town.

He looks kind of passive while under pressure for you, which pings me as somewhat scummy from my (limited) experience.

I was gonna say that passive swings both ways. But since you find it scummy to be passive under pressure, aren't you implicating yourself?

[Roshar]

Shaddowez seems to be focused on beating people down than building up a case. It seems like a lot of discrediting is his priority.

Speaking of discrediting, I don't recall seeing you mention any town reads. In your recent posts you've thrown shade at Maverick, myself, Shaddowz, APF, Pisskop.

No wait, the

ONLY

post you liked was from Maxous that you, "like and think it's town, even though it's against me".

So the only post you end up 'liking' you use to make you appear more town?

[Roshar]

If you flip scum, you've made Maxous look worse to me.

[Roshar]

Oh, and Maxous was the first to unvote Clumsy. Hmmmm....



If Clumsy flips scum, for all those who are still unsure of Maxous, please go for him next.


Is Maxous scummy by himself? Yes.

Upon a Clumsy scum flip, does this make him way more scummy? Hell yes.

[Froot Loop]

@Clumsy - when/why did your read on Maverick change? You said he's lean town in post 561.

[Froot Loop]

Sorry, just saw this, although a bit more information would be nice:

That post was about Maverick. But now I'm back to on the fence with him. It's almost exclusively gut though. Something is bothering me about him, and I can't figure it out.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and he was a lot more aggressive and talkative in each. One was town and one was scum, so it's hardly certain, but the difference here is jarring, and I suspect it's because he's been trying to keep his head down among what's been, let's just say, some aggressive personalities. He hasn't been scum reading anyone, he hasn't been getting into the fray, he's been keeping his head down as much as he can.

If he was chatty as town and scum, he could be posting less as town and scum? Interestingly, I get the impression that he's a bit non-committal in general which conflicts with the aggressive play you saw in his other games.

Also, I've had a read through his ISO and come up with these:

-_- If you would care to look at my game history, I only have 2 completed games here. Both of them Newbie games. 9 players, 2 scum. Haven't been in a 12 person game. I thought there would be 3 scum, but I wanted to make sure so I didn't have any errors in logic. The fact that you think it's a ham handed fake townslip is one of the more egotistical things I've seen in a while. Which is saying something.

I read this as a firm response to Lowell saying he faked a townslip. But APF thinks he missed an opportunity to question Lowell further (post 964)

At first, I had the impression that Maverick was just vote hopping to whatever looked good repeatedly. Going with the flow. After going back and ISOing though, it's not true. Decent vibes from this so far. Lean town.

Town read on Maverick.

@APF - you interpreted these as empty words in post 964?

My eyes are throbbing as I read the frst 8 pages.


RC is kund of floating around, and that indicative of him being scummy. But Titus I feel much better about reading.
APF is kind of naughty too. Didnt like much he did.

He has been kind of quiet, which is odd because from the games I've read, he's usually pretty talkative, right? (Not that I can say much on this. >_<)

Just for clarity, is this saying Titus is a town-lean for you?

[my edit]

As for the ISO, I did look into it, but didn't find as much as I had hoped. I like your side of it more, but I could see a scum team between you with this used as distancing. What is interesting is that while you're pushing him pretty hard, you stay near the middle of his readlist. He looks kind of passive while under pressure for you, which pings me as somewhat scummy from my (limited) experience.

Asking pisskop for a concrete read/clarification. Attempted analysis of Roshar/APF ISO. (Fair enough that this was after being pressured.)

I'm way more convinced by my own argument for lynching Max

[Maxous]

What would you like to know Max?

you said you wanted time to talk.

I kinda agree regarding Shadowez, I wasn't stoked with him popping in with a wall full of questions earlier.

Oh, and Maxous was the first to unvote Clumsy. Hmmmm....

yeah, to prevent a quickhammer.
I would think you agree since you want the other replacements to catch up

besides from what i've seen you're case on me is you don't like me giving town reads on {FA,RC and yourself}
apart from the jake stuff