Mini 1773 : Symphonic Metal Mafia (Game Over?!)

[Jeanne11]

/confirming and don't eat me mod.

[Jeanne11]

Oh don't even try, avatar thief.

[Jeanne11]

Maestro is stealing my role......how sad.....why u do this?

[Jeanne11]

VOTE: maestro for stealing my role.

[Jeanne11]

Now that this is over, I have just one thing I want to say to you.....

BWAAAAA!

VOTE: Jake

[Jeanne11]

@Wisdom Well, I have to be a party pooper, but......what if he's town? What will you do then?

If you don't answer this question directly within next five posts or throw some vague stuff out, I am voting you.

[Jeanne11]

I am just tired. I've seen townies be mislynched too many times because of an attitude like that.

p-edit: I told you I will vote you if you don't give a real justification.

VOTE: Wisdom

Those who have a slightest bit of common sense, join me on this.

[Jeanne11]

I had nothing to do with that. I was ABSENT at that time. *throws hands in the air* Explanation. Now.

[Jeanne11]

Either he goes or I do. With both of us around, this game will become a mess.

pedit: All I see is you accusing him because of a typo, him defending himself and you goading him on till he snapped so you can use that as evidence to further your fake case. Reminds me of what Tere did to me back when I first joined and I am not gonna let that shizz slide.

[Jeanne11]

And again you're not answering questions. This is what I want to know as well

What do you actually expect me to say, Wisdom? That we

didn't

have the numbers for that lynch or that the game

isn't

better off without KTS around? Buy whatever the fuck you like, but unless you have an actual question to ask, then you can go back to voting Town in Jake for all I care.

Answer the damn question instead of stating the same thing over and over. >.>

[Jeanne11]

Hey Wisdom, I have something for you.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p6950062

This is you, not giving a crap about whether a player flips town and not showing a slightest bit of remorse even after they do. >.>

[Jeanne11]

Of course not, genius. You have to select it and then open it. If you want, I can make it clickable though.

p-edit: NO, BUT JAKE AND MAESTRO MIGHT! DID YOU EVEN CONSIDER THAT THEY COULD BE TOWN OR IS IT JUST SCUM SCUM SCUM AD INFINITUM FOR YOU?!
OMG.....I KNOW I DO THIS TOO BUT I CONSIDER OTHER POSSIBILITIES AS WELL. YOU DON'T.

[Jeanne11]

And that was to give en example of how Wisdom was playing. His playstyle here is similar to that person's.

[Jeanne11]

That's what Tere told everyone about me. And guess what? I flipped town. I am not gonna allow another Tere to falsely accuse people with reasoning 'because I say so'.

[Jeanne11]

Isn't that tad hypocritical Wisdom? You refuse to make cases precisely because they could be picked apart, and now you ask me to address your reasoning so you can pick it apart. Sorry, but no. Start making cases yourself if you want me to take you seriously.

[Jeanne11]

Well, then answer this. Did you even consider that they could flip town?

[Jeanne11]

No, but my whole point is that they MIGHT.

[Jeanne11]

I asked you what will you do if they flip town and your sole response was that they won't. No reasonable doubt at all. No consideration that they could be town. None at all.

[Jeanne11]

@Shiro The problem is that he won't consider otherwise. Say you think Maestro is scum. Is the right approach to scumread him to oblivion or pause to think 'hey, what if he's town, who could be scum if he is town etc'?

[Jeanne11]

@Wisdom List other possible scumreads you have that are not Jake, Maestro or myself. Then I shall believe you. How does that sound?

[Jeanne11]

And I am willing to tell you why I am like this. Basically, a user named Tere scum-read despite all my attempts to convince her otherwise, and when I flipped town, she didn't give a damn. Your behaviour right now reminds me of that. So in case they're town, I don't want a repeat.

[Jeanne11]

Sure, if someone hammers town, I'll be all over them, but I'd also think about other possibilities.

[Jeanne11]

What if I find a game where your scumread did flip town?

[Jeanne11]

Well, I found a game where one of your scumreads did flip town.

[Jeanne11]

Well, now I am intrigued. I want to study you. I want to get into your head, to see why are you so damn certain.

[Jeanne11]

Why not?

[Jeanne11]

Well, something I've noticed is this: people will grind you about your hammer the next day even if the person you hammered flipped scum.

[Jeanne11]

So by that logic, even if Maestro flips scum, that doesn't absolve you as his partner, does it?

[Jeanne11]

the 2 people I hate the most right now are

kill and farmer

. Posts just rub me the wrong way.

Fire and farmer

I dislike atm

You can't even keep your reads straight

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't this why you started scumreading Jake?

[Jeanne11]

Jeanne you're still doing the thing where you think the only things in my mind are the things that are in my posts

Well, I am not a mind reader and you refused to let me into your head, so don't get snippy with me for not being able to know what you're thinking.

[Jeanne11]

You're scum as far as am concerned. I will not let scum go because of half-baked truths like last time.

[Jeanne11]

That's not the situation I am describing. Look up Cookie Bakers and ask both heads about the time they were scum with Runner.

[Jeanne11]

It's not silly at all.

[Jeanne11]

But I'll let you judge. Read this. Read it whole and then speak. Any attempts to do so before that will result in me not giving a damn.

[Jeanne11]

......

*sighs*

I am off for a while. If I stay, I'll do oog things that I might regret.

Bye. Live long and prosper.

[Jeanne11]

One more thing. What will you do if they flip town? And don't say 'they won't'. Imagine they will. What will you do?

[Jeanne11]

Fail. You said that you've never been wrong and then said 'If they flip town and I still insist, it would be a different story'.

Fine, vote them, but if even one of them flips town, I am lynching you next based on those words of yours and no amount of words will save you then.

[Jeanne11]

No. If I let you go now, you'll weasel your way out of it with various excuses even after they flip town. I have scum in my grasp. I won't let go. On the off chance that you flip town, I will personally bury him, but not before then.

[Jeanne11]

Okay, Wisdom, you're obviously so perfect that your reads can't be wrong, even if the person you're scumreading flips town. In fact, I remember someone calling you out for being wrong and you brushing it off like it didn't happen. That high and mighty attitude of yours annoys me.

[Jeanne11]

You said earlier 'I was never wrong in my reads'. This implies you think you can never be wrong in your reads, therefore, you think you're perfect.

Well, guess what? I have never been wrong in my reads before either. I scum read you. By your logic, you're automatic scum. GG

^that's the sort of logic you give.

[Jeanne11]

Okay, then what about massive in ASOIAF? You scumread him at some point and he flipped town.

[Jeanne11]

Figures you'd ignore my post about how you scumread massive and he flipped town. Figures you'd ignore anything that suggests you being wrong.

[Jeanne11]

Yes, I am. You are claiming that nobody you're scumreading has flipped town ever. Well, massive has.

[Jeanne11]

But seriously

'I have never been wrong in this came! Who cares if my scumreads flip town! I'll just start spouting nonsensical excuses after they do to save myself! Oh, and I won't apologise either!"

^Tere through and through.

[Jeanne11]

Yes, but when they flip town, you'd make another excuse to justify yourself.

[Jeanne11]

I asked you multiple times what will you do if they flip town. You never gave a straight answer and think I am annoying for even suggesting that they could flip town.

[Jeanne11]

Wrong answer. You're not supposed to pretend it never happened. You're supposed to drop the attitude.

[Jeanne11]

Like, I don't see how you could still toot your horn after being wrong multiple times. This is what annoys me the most.

[Jeanne11]

@Shiro Well, his type annoys me.

[Jeanne11]

You were wrong in the previous games. For someone who uses past games to make a point, you sure are dense.

[Jeanne11]

No, I expected you to at least consider that they could be town. You say you have, but if that's true, then you're obviously so perfect that you scoff at the very idea of them being town because you say they couldn't be town under any circumstances.

[Jeanne11]

Yes, for real. I am still bitter about how you played me and I decided not to let it happen again. I have scum in my grasp. Do you expect me to let go and regret it later?

[Jeanne11]

That's what she said about you back then.

[Jeanne11]

Once again, what I say is not necessarily what I believe. I can say lots of things in order to get better reads from people.

Your problem is that you take everything at face value.

So what exactly do you want me to do then, Wisdom? Read your mind?

[Jeanne11]

And Shiro, I guess he's allowed to tunnel to his heart's content, yet I am not allowed to tunnel him even if I think he's scum? What's wrong with you two?

[Jeanne11]

@Wisdom Like, you expect me to know your reasoning instantly and follow you without questions.

[Jeanne11]

No, you expect me to know what you're thinking without you giving a slightest hint in that department. That's impossible and you know it.

p-edit: Then why so opposed to me thinking you're scum? A little tidbit: players are usually judged by their playstyle.

[Jeanne11]

That's cute, cos I am sure my pal FA was judged based on her playstyle and not her motivation in SU.

[Jeanne11]

Wisdom, why so pissed at me? Like, do you think you would admit to being scum? No, so others have to catch you themselves. So why so pissed at me for not believing you, omg?

[Jeanne11]

Jeanne, it reads to me like you think he's scum for his playstyle, and no so much for his motivation or anything. You're not giving a scum case he can respond to, so it boils down to "I think wisdom is scum because he's arrogant!" And in turn you get that.

My take on it anyway.

So he doesn't have to make cases and yet I have to?! Yeah, no. If I have to make cases, so does he. Or does he get a special treatment that the rest of us aren't allowed to have?

[Jeanne11]

I think he's scum because he can't consider the possibility of them being town. I don't know how you see it, but he is way too one-dimensional.

[Jeanne11]

No, I don't agree. I think he's so damn sure of himself that he is willing to throw townies under the bus due to his pride.

[Jeanne11]

You basically said that you won't even care if they flip town and would just move on. I mean, if you are that sure they are scum, you could at least apologize if you are wrong.

[Jeanne11]

Yes, we all genuinely think so. You act like your words are more important than ours and anyone who even suggests you could be wrong is automatically scum or an idiot.

[Jeanne11]

That's not the best attitude to have in multiplayer games.

[Jeanne11]

Hi.

[Jeanne11]

I am here.

[Jeanne11]

Ha, that is rich right there. You don't reevaluate yourself either. No, you set your sights on someone and refuse to consider any other possibility. I think this topic will do you well

[Jeanne11]

@Wisdom But this is just silly. I know Shiro and you said you don't want to backtrack, but losing a potential town because of your attitude is just silly.

[Jeanne11]

And lynching a town is playing against your win condition. I don't care about your flimsy excuses and your re-evaluating. You said I am free to scumread you tomorrow if you're wrong, which is exactly what I will do and you will not fight it. >.>

[Jeanne11]

Nice try, but even if there was a replacement, I bet my gold they too would notice how silly your tunneling is and call you out on it.

[Jeanne11]

And lynching a town is playing against your win condition. I don't care about your flimsy excuses and your re-evaluating.

You said I am free to scumread you tomorrow if you're wrong, which is exactly what I will do and you will not fight it. >.>

What in the hell kind of logic is this?

He said it will be justified to vote him if farmer flips town. Plus, I am giving him a taste of his own medicine. He won't consider all the possibilities and is like 'hurr durr he is scum there is zero chance he is town if he is town I won't apologize and will continue tunneling because hurr durr I am always right even when I am not!'. If he can behave that way without being removed from the game, then so can I.

@Wisdom Yeah, right, and when he flips town you will come up with bs excuses as to why you lynched him. If you are scum, you'd sweet-talk your way out and I am not gonna let you.

[Jeanne11]

Regardless of my read on farmer I'm not going to vote a person that nobody can make a case for and because it's being pushed by my top scum read I can't compromise myself or my integrity and join it

This is the most smart thing you've said, btw, and I suggest you read it over and over until you realize that you do not need to make a case on farmer in order to want to lynch him, it's enough if you understand he is scum. And until you realize that voting with me, even if you have argued with me all game, is not such a bad thing

if it still leads to scum getting lynched.

And if it doesn't? >.>

[Jeanne11]

Shouldn't you be doing that with farmer then? Right back at you, just because you see him acting scummy, doesn't mean he is. Look deeper yourself.

[Jeanne11]

Then you're not looking deeper. You just said he is scum and refuse to consider any other possibility. You're always right, I get it. But at some point that attitude of your will hurt town. At some point, you will be in LYLO and you will hammer wrong because of your 'I can't be wrong' attitude, and cause a loss for town.

[Jeanne11]

I was always lynched when I played like you. Why should you be an exception? To me it seems you are desperate for mislynch.

[Jeanne11]

@Wisdom And how will you defend yourself if farmer flips TOWN? You haven't thought about that, have you? You're all 'lynch lynch lynch lynch' and when people ask why, you basically tell them 'because I say so'. If you want us to lynch him, find something worthy of lynch.

[Jeanne11]

Well, stop pretending you are so sure. Otherwise, people will just dismiss you because they think you are arrogant or scum, as these are the only two cases in which you can be THAT sure.

[Jeanne11]

FOR GOD'S SAKE, ALL YOUR POSTS ARE MADE WITH ASSUMPTION HE IS SCUM. CAN YOU SAY WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF HE IS TOWN AT ALL?

BE MORE VERSATILE, SHEESH.

[Jeanne11]

THAT'S IT, I QUIT. YOU GUYS CAN MISLYNCH AND SWEET-TALK YOUR WAY OUT OF IT AFTERWARDS. >.>

[Jeanne11]

And have you thought why nobody listens to you? It's because you don't work with us. Try working with us instead of ordering us to lynch someone. If the way you're doing it isn't working, change it.

p-edit: That's not the problem. The problem is that he isn't versatile. I will attack him until he starts to look deeper and follows his own advice in seeing town motivation in things instead of just repeating he is scum over and over again. Not only that, but when people ask him for actual case, he refuses to give it and start repeating 'he is scum' again. Not all of us are mind readers. If you can explain to us why is he so insistent, maybe we would stop attacking him.

[Jeanne11]

You have no real reasoning. All you have is make-believe.

[Jeanne11]

Basically, your reasoning is that they're scum because you say so or you latch yourself onto trivial reasons at first and wait for them to say something incriminating so you can advance your case from that. That is scummy behaviour.

[Jeanne11]

@Shiro Okay, ignore everything I say. Let farmer flip town and then brag about how you lynched town because of your ginormous egos. >.>

[Jeanne11]

About changing his mind on Jake, he only did that because we pressured him into doing it.

[Jeanne11]

Fix your own faults first. If you don't consider the possibility he is town, I won't consider the possibility he is scum. I want to show you how you act by acting the same way:

[Jeanne11]

narrow minded

[Jeanne11]

That's the same thing Tere said about me.

'Oh, Jeanne can't be town, she haz scum motivation kek'.

I flip town.

[Jeanne11]

Like really? You expect me to listen to you while using the same shallow reasoning Tere did. Like, no. Dig deeper. Could farmer have a possible town motivation?

I don't know why I try to uproot your narrow-mindedness. -_-

[Jeanne11]

@Shiro maybe, but he sure uses the same brand of stupid.

[Jeanne11]

From your point of view maybe, but what the hell do you expect? For us to follow you blindly and do whatever you say because you're Lord Almighty' or something? Yeah, I used to be the same way, but guess what? Town is only as good as it's part. All of the parts.

[Jeanne11]

Well, that's what I've been trying to tell you all along, but of course, you don't listen to me at all, but as soon as someone makes the same point, you immediately agree with them. Like, really?!

[Jeanne11]

Well, I do have thoughts, but I am focusing on him because I want to act like him to show him how he is acting like.

[Jeanne11]

No. Not until you say 'farmer could be town' in this thread.

[Jeanne11]

Okay. I will check your case on him, though I am sure most of it relies on assuming you know everything.

[Jeanne11]

and I don't buy that Jake's post was actually scummy enough to warrant such a shift.

So basically, because you can't see Jake is scum, whoever does see it is scum.

And yet you're expecting people to see farmer as scum just because you do.

According to him. Not according to everyone.

Same thing. Just because farmer is scum to you doesn't mean that he is to everyone.

I don't care about Dier, Jake is still scum. You had your mislynch, now we're lynching Jake.

Oh, yeah, let's push another potential mislynch

And what are you talking about? Did someone I scumread flip town?

Not yet, but they might.

Have they flipped, Jeanne? Has anyone I've scumread flip town?

Read above

He wasn't obvTown?

Like, no. It's inexcusable to say this. If he were obvTown I couldn't've hammered him because he wouldn't've been at fucking L-1, Wisdom.

He was at L-1 because people didn't like his attitude.

I disagree with this.

It's a fact.

It's a fact because I say so, hooray for omnipotent me!

Who the fuck cares about convincing anyone? Snarky sees scum Maestro and votes scum Maestro. You keep impeding progress because you disagree with how townies choose to play.

I am not wrong, sorry, you're dying.

I never claimed to be infallible

Yeah, because I'm the only player in this game and my word is law.

Why are you not trying to get your scumreads lynched?

Yeah, you obviously think your word is law and snap at anyone who refuses to see what you see.

I've decided. It's farmer/Jake.

Jeanne you're still doing the thing where you think the only things in my mind are the things that are in my posts

What else would I think? I can't read your mind, you know

Whatever it is you're describing, it's silly.

Discrediting

Jeanne, I don't give a damn about your situations. I've tried making you see the light. You don't want to. Keep voting me. I don't care.

More discrediting

I never said I'm perfect or infallible, you're just incapable of understanding how I play even though I unnecessarily explained it to you.

You say you aren't, yet you demand people sheep you cos your opinion is the only right one

And I'll repeat once more that nobody I'm scumreading has flipped town so your point continues being awful

No, I never said I was never wrong in my reads, I said what I just said, that nobody I am scumreading in this game has flipped town like you're claiming. I, like every other player, am sometimes right and sometimes wrong.

Yeah, and you're always right so not doing as you say is a sin

For the last time.

I am nowhere saying that I am some infallible god of scumhunting that is never wrong. In ASOIAF I was not just wrong about massive, I was also wrong about Radja, Drixx and ABR. In every game there will be at least one townie I will wrongly scumread. It's normal. Hell, in my wiki I say that most of the time my tunneling is on town.

So no. You have misunderstood if you think that what I am saying is that I am always right. I am not always right. What I keep telling you is that your argument does not make sense. You are arguing that when X is scumreading Y, Y flips town, and X continues being arrogant like nothing happened, then X is likely scum. Which is a good point, not always of course as there ARE such arrogant townies, but it's a valid point. However, I keep telling you that I can't be likened to X in this theory, because none of my scumreads THIS GAME have flipped town. If either Jake or farmer flipped town and I continued insisting that everyone should follow me, then you would be able to make this point, but not now.

Do you get it now? If not, too bad, because this is the last time I am trying. I am trying to have extra and extra patience with you but I can only have so much patience.

So when farmer flips town I'm allowed to scumread you without you throwing a fuss?

I asked you multiple times what will you do if they flip town. You never gave a straight answer and think I am annoying for even suggesting that they could flip town.

Yes, because it serves no purpose to ask me what I will do if they flip town. Regardless of my alignment, there is only one correct answer to this, which is "I will reread and reevaluate". You gain nothing by asking me this.

The right answer is to not lynch them without re-evaluating. You re-evaluate before the lynch, not after.

Nope, players are judged by their motivation for doing things. Playstyle is playstyle.

Sorry, we'll lynch farmer next

and that'll end the game

You say you're not always right, yet you insist you actually are here

because FA gave you a scum role PM

That's ridiculous. We won't lynch town because of apathy.

c
This is what you're trying to do from my point of view. The fact that you're jumping from scumread to scumread like a frog further makes me think you're trying to jump at everyone who looks scummy and justify yourself with that after they flip town.

See, Masquerade? Good luck playing this game with people like the above posting. I am now supposed to treat this one-dimensional bullheadness as town.

Pot, meet kettle

Normal games are a great place to find who you shouldn't play with. A great lesson.

Yes and most people have come to the conclusion you are a cancer and should be avoided at all cost.

Go hide under your hole. I am the only one actually trying in this game.

You insult people who dare to question your perfect reads.

I disagree with you. I don't need to do anything more than I have already done. I've found 2 scum and I'm trying to get them lynched. I provide reasons for my scum reads and I keep pressure on them.

I'm #winning

That's not how you play town. You reevaluate. You consider the possibility you're wrong. You consider how others are reacting towards your scumreads. You don't just ignore the game and lurk until your scumreads are dead.

Says this now, but isn't trying to reevaluate at all

This is the guy you're allowing to live. A guy arguing that Snarky's "I want Maestro to claim" somehow holds scum motivation.

Half the players on mafiascum say otherwise based on games I've completed

Like, you have to be completely dumb and shallow (and unfortunately there are at least two such townies in here) in order to look at that and say "okay yes, scum benefit from claims, so that held scum motivation"

read above

Fuck this town. I'll lurk until you either lynch farmer or mislynch whoever

Oh, that's rich. Pure gold. You're lurking until your scumread is dead despite saying that town shouldn't do so earlier. I found me a scum, people.

@Wisdom Yeah, right, and when he flips town you will come up with bs excuses as to why you lynched him. If you are scum, you'd sweet-talk your way out and I am not gonna let you.

You have said that for my push on Maestro, my push on Jake, my push on Snarky.

Is nobody scum in this game?

No, you're scum. I've explained why in this post.

There is nothing "proven", Jake, there lies your mistake. Even if someone posted "I am scum" it wouldn't be proof they are scum. There is no proof in mafia besides results from roles.

I already explained the town motivation I see from Snarky. You pressured him about his farmer read. He had forgotten why he had the town read in D1. So he simply said what he assumed probably happened, that he sheeped a townread. That looks like it wasn't the case, but oh well; it isn't a lie with the intent to look town, it's a lie that comes from not remembering.

You don't go so deeply though, you just look at the lie and say "This is a lie, scum lie, Snarky is scum, period." It isn't that simple.

so you are saying that a town aligned player who didn't remember something would make up stuff instead of just admitting he didn't remember?

yes

Once again, things are not absolute. Town can even claim scum and still be town.

Town are people, not machines. There are no preset behaviors you can use to define town. Town will lie, will fakeclaim guilties for no reason other than stubbornness, will claim scum for no reason other than personal amusement, will behave in abnormal and weird ways affected by paranoia and lack of knowledge, and will generally RARELY act the way you believe is the optimal way they should be behaving.

The answer to such behaviors is not "you're not playing like I expect town to, so I will lynch you and if you are town I will report you for not playing like town".

The answer is to widen your expectations and go deeper to understand the motivations behind such behaviors.

Says people shouldn't be one-dimensional. Is one-dimensional himself. Okay then....

I am doing it, and I have deemed he is scum.

I also did it with Jake, Maestro and Snarky, and I deemed I wasn't sure they were scum. Hence why I am not pushing them anymore. But you're still failing to give that to me.

Go on, have your mislynch. Let's see how you'll defend yourself for this when farmer has flipped scum.

I never assumed that. Get rid of your bias.

Get rid of yours first.

[Jeanne11]

See? This is why you are scum. I gave you my reasoning and you laugh at me. I am fucking done.

[Jeanne11]

I am going to go and punch some yankies and have some fun with Kagami and forget about you two forever.

[Jeanne11]

You can't even address my responses properly? And you expect people to listen to you?

[Jeanne11]

Well, you are biased against farmer. So there. >.>

[Jeanne11]

No, I won't replace out because of your demand. Me replacing out would cause problems to the mod, who happens to be my best friend.

No, address the last point where you said 'oh, town shouldn't lurk until their scumreads die' and then you are all like 'oh, I am gonna lurk until my scumread dies', thus doing what YOU SAID TOWN SHOULD NOT DO.

And I am biased? You can't even follow what YOU YOURSELF said town should NOT do.

......

[Jeanne11]

for the record, I can listen to people when they aren't biased.

[Jeanne11]

*sigh* If you cannot beat them, join them.

VOTE: farmer

However, if farmer somehow flips town, I promise you I will kick you out of all games I play and mod. I am fed up with this blind playstyle.

[Jeanne11]

So how is your perfect-self doing today? I will go read farmer's posts now and show you your reasoning is full of holes. Btw, as for lying townies, there is a reason this site has a 'lynch all liars' policy. You should consult Cerberus. He will explain this to you far better than I and with less 'bias'.

[Jeanne11]

And I am serious. I will blacklist you if they flip town. >.>

[Jeanne11]

And also, if you say he won't one more time, I swear.....! D:

You people are so full of yourself that you ignore common sense and opinions of HALF OF THIS SITE. Like seriously?

[Jeanne11]

Wisdom gets served by Jeanne but still votes farmer?

Well, read the wall I made. In one of his posts, he basically gave us permission to lynch him tomorrow if farmer flips town.

[Jeanne11]

Besides, he cannot be reasoned with. I've tried everything.

[Jeanne11]

Well, no, but I too will take that chance if it means shutting up Wisdom for good. My brain is a jelly at this point, so please forgive me.

[Jeanne11]

But at least it'll end this misery. If we lynch you, either the game ends like he says, or he gets killed tonight and we get some peace.

[Jeanne11]

p.s: Watch as he jumps at me now for that last comment, jiggly wiggly. :s

[Jeanne11]

*googly eyes*

To be honest, I'd rather lynch Wisdom, but people are swayed by his words.......

[Jeanne11]

Again, you are biased against farmer. Get it into your head already.

[Jeanne11]

Yes, you are. Refusing to consider he is town is bias.

[Jeanne11]

No, you haven't. If you have, you could have said 'I think he is scum, but take this at face value'. You, on the other hand, are absolutely sure he is scum, like you know he is. That's why I am voting him, because I am now starting to think you're scumbuddies. His last post is also ringing alarm bells to me. Like, 'let me lynch him'. If he is town, he should talk to me differently. Plus, nobody is that certain someone is scum unless they're their buddy. Your whole 'lynch me if he flips town' kinda alludes that

you know he won't

and thus will be able to save yourself.

UNVOTE:

So I'll lynch you first and him later.

[Jeanne11]

VOTE: Wisdom

[Jeanne11]

Nah, I am better at reading than you. Everyone is better at reading than you. Know why? Cos we're versatile.

[Jeanne11]

^What he said.

[Jeanne11]

We are better at reading than you. Every player on MS is better at reading than you. Everyone, not just me. In fact, I am second worst.

[Jeanne11]

@Wisdom

[Jeanne11]

And you insult people for having different thoughts from yours.

[Jeanne11]

@Wisdom So you're allowed to scumread people by gut alone, yet I have to give reasons for scumreading you? That's bs and you know it.

[Jeanne11]

Well, I scumread him, so why should I?

[Jeanne11]

Why should I do that? The others will see it themselves. The last time I tried to convince people, it didn't go so well. Instead of listening to me, the townie self-hammered. So thanks, but no thanks.

[Jeanne11]

Why don't you tell him to get off his tunnel himself? Singling me out is weird.

[Jeanne11]

I already said why. I am emulating Wisdom to make him see how wrongly he's doing things. When he starts looking at other players instead of just having one scumread at the time, then we'll talk, but not before then.

[Jeanne11]

No. If we lynch farmer and he flips town, you'll still find some excuse to avoid getting lynched first. We bury you first and if you flip town, we bury farmer next. It's a win-win for you and us.

[Jeanne11]

Why not? I remember a time when a player was at L-6 and got six consecutive votes in a span of an hour. It was in one of the games I modded, I think.

[Jeanne11]

Why so sure about that? You yourself said people are unpredictable? Besides, why so sure people would hammer him? No one but Shiro and Masquerade supports you and the latter is only doing it cos he wants to appease you.

[Jeanne11]

No, I think he realized there's no arguing with you, like how I did.

[Jeanne11]

And you ignore my points. And you wonder why I scumread you? -_-

[Jeanne11]

"Yeah sure, lynch the player. When he flips town, feel free to lynch me, even though I would do anything in my power to avoid my lynch and mislead players further'.

That's basically your thought process to me.

[Jeanne11]

Show me the posts where he has more than one scumread at a time. And I mean it. At a time, which means Jake, Maestro and whomever don't count.

[Jeanne11]

Hammer whoever you want. I will not participate or give ideas in your town lynch.

[Jeanne11]

If farmer is scum, Wisdom is his buddy. Why? Because he is 100% sure farmer is scum, so the only logical conclusion is a) he is scum bussing his buddy b) he is scum looking for mislynch. Either way, he is scum.

[Jeanne11]

VOTE: Jeanne
Either you are VI or you just slipped.
Either way, if you are so sure Wisdom is scum because he's sure that farmer is scum because they are buddies then WHY NOT JOIN FARMER_WAGON??????

BECAUSE WISDOM WILL TRY TO AVOID GETTING LYNCHED TOMORROW WITH LIES. THAT'S WHY. ARE YOU DUMB?! YOU ARE ASSUMING HE WILL JUST ROLL OVER AND DIE IF FARMER FLIPS TOWN. HE WON'T. HE WON'T PLAY AGAINST HIS WIN CONDITION AS SCUM. YOU ARE FALLING FOR HIS FALSE PROMISES. >.>

[Jeanne11]

@Jeanne - a number of places where Wisdom has MORE THAN ONE SCUMREAD AT THE SAME TIME.

STOP DOING WHAT YOURE DOING. START PLAYING MAFIA. THANK YOU.

I SAID THOSE DON'T COUNT. LEARN TO READ.

[Jeanne11]

If you hop on the farmer wagon, I will wholeheartedly support the wisdom wagon tomorrow.

Uh-Huh. Yeah.....no. You're on his side now, you will be on his side tomorrow.

[Jeanne11]

Oh, and have you seen it? The moment I start suspecting him, I am dumb and VI. He is a discrediting scum. If I have to join one of your wagons, it'll be yours for defending him so persistently

VOTE: Snowman

You can. Sell me on the fact that he has more scumreads than farmer at this time.

[Jeanne11]

Oh, more discrediting. He is ignoring all my points in favor of discrediting me some more. That's not what town does. His supposed scumread didn't try to discredit me, not even once, despite the fact that I was voting them at a time.

[Jeanne11]

if only she hadn't posted after her third prod we'd had an actual player in her slot now

Doesn't that look like discrediting to you?

[Jeanne11]

Okay. Then promised me you'll allow us to quicklynch you without defending yourself at all if farmer flips town and I'll vote him. Mind you, if you say anything remotely defensive the next day if he flips town, I won't stop till you are lynched. Still willing to go through with this, scum?

[Jeanne11]

You're discrediting yourself by being 110% stuck on this tunnel, without considering literally any other possibility than Wisdom being scum.

Well, he isn't consider any other possibility than farmer being scum. Prove me wrong. Show me where he has considered the possibility of farmer being town. If you can't find it, I kindly suggest dropping it.

[Jeanne11]

VOTE: farmer

Can we please just lynch and get the day over with?

And you ignore my request. Typical. As soon as they can't give it, they change it. My vote stays on you.

[Jeanne11]

I have. Nowhere has he said he considers the possibility of farmer being town on his own free will. He only did so because I forced him. FAIL.

[Jeanne11]

I said, on his own free will! >.>

[Jeanne11]

Well, I am done with you too. Don't bother trying to get me to unvote you, cos I will ignore you.

[Jeanne11]

Hey Jeanne, here is a list of my three (3) scumreads, with summarized reasons, just for you.

Scumread no.1: a plain farmer
Reasons: Manipulative nature in his posts, awful reasoning for his wagon hops on both KTS and Snarky that looks artificial and forced, defensive attitude in regards to his participation in the KTS wagon that does not feel natural.

Scumread no.2: Firebringer-Aristophanes
Reasons: Lurking from Aristophanes, only to be around for awful wagon hops that look opportunistic. Firebringer's vote on Snarky has this as well, and given Firebringer has played with Snarky where Snarky got mislynched it's extra bad.

Scumread no.3: Maestro
Reasons: Lurking, awful hammer on KTS that could be opportunism masked with personal dislike, giving up/AtE that reminds me of his AtE in a past scum game of his.

Scumread 1. Town can do that too. Look deeper. Town can claim scum and still be town. You need to forget about 'town does that and scum does this'. That's what you said. Take your own advice. Also, just because a player pushes town doesn't mean they are scum. Take my example with Tere. They mislynched me and yet they were still town. Throw away your assumptions that someone is scum just because they push/lynch town.


Scumread 2. Same
Scumread 3. Same

[Jeanne11]

Then don't complain that I want to lynch someone else. >.>

[Jeanne11]

If I bother you that much, kill me at night and coast to victory.

[Jeanne11]

You're looking to lynch them only because you deemed their posts are scummy enough you can pass them off as legit lynch anyway.

But let's play: if you are scum, would you say you are?

[Jeanne11]

Yeah, sure. That's what scum would say. Scum lie. >.>

[Jeanne11]

VOTE: farmer

SWEAR TO ME YOU WILL LET US LYNCH YOU WITHOUT EXCUSES. SWEAR IT RIGHT NOW.

p-edit: Because I am emulating you, duh. You aren't considering farmer is town so I am not considering you are town.

[Jeanne11]

SWEAR IT. RIGHT NOW. NO CHANGING THE SUBJECT OR MAKING EXCUSES. RIGHT NOW.

p-edit: NOT GOOD ENOUGH. YOU MUST SWEAR IT.

[Jeanne11]

@Town If for some reason I am killed before next day, lynch him in my stead.

[Jeanne11]

Don't fall for his sweet tongue. He'll try his hardest to avoid getting lynched and make a ton of excuses.

[Jeanne11]

Well, now is your last chance to stop this if you're town. >.>\

Unless you are sure he won't flip town because you are his buddy and therefore, you can avoid lynch easily. You wouldn't swear otherwise.

[Jeanne11]

And what about you Wisdom? You dodged my point in my last post. :/

[Jeanne11]

Yeah, you only say that cos you know you won't be wrong due to you two being scumbuddies. Nice try.

[Jeanne11]

Suppose he flips scum. You can defend yourself on account of his flipping scum and end up being scum yourself at end.

[Jeanne11]

I don't know what to think now. I think you two are scumbuddies and have agreed to suspect each other without fail so we would discard the possibility you two are scum together, with farmer being the sacrifice. You also agreed for farmer to appear whenever someone starts to vote him to maintain the illusion.

[Jeanne11]

After all, there's nothing scum wouldn't do to survive. I remember my first game as scum. My partner and I deliberately made him a sacrifice so I could win for us. You two could be doing the same thing.

[Jeanne11]

After all, there's nothing scum wouldn't do to survive. I remember my first game as scum. My partner and I deliberately made him a sacrifice so I could win for us. You two could be doing the same thing.

[Jeanne11]

If I am right, you're both manipulating me.

[Jeanne11]

Granted, it's mostly gut, but something feels off with these posts you two make. It feels rehearsed.

[Jeanne11]

Wisdom knew this would happen from ASOIAF. He said so himself. That's exactly what they were counting on.

[Jeanne11]

Yes, you were. Just as me and Coldwine were. There is nothing scum wouldn't do. Wisdom said himself that town and scum don't act the way we expect them to.

[Jeanne11]

Jeanne you should win a scummy

For some serious talk though, after farmer flips scum and

I get NK'd,

the most likely partners are Firebringer and Maestro. Please be useful to the town when I won't be here and vote those two.

This, right there, is the final nail in the coffin. Look at the guy who says the farmer flip should end the game, but now he says he will be nked if farmer flips scum? If farmer flips scum, it should end the game according to you, so how in the name of all that's holy do you expect to be NKed if the game ends?!

[Jeanne11]

zzzz

been here, done that. don't believe you. deal with it.

[Jeanne11]

I am gonna do it. I am fed up with these antics.

Daykill: Wisdom

There, I killed him. Sorry not sorry.

[Jeanne11]

It could be.

[Jeanne11]

I checked, at vig is listed on normal roles page.

[Jeanne11]

I am not toying with you. It's real, I swear. I got fed up with his incessant tunneling, so I killed him. That's all there's to it.

p-edit: I presume you'd also rather take a chance despite the possibility of him being town? And no, I will have him lynched, but only when deadline comes around. I think he is scum with Wisdom, and since Wisdom is hard to lynch due to people listening to him, I'd rather leave an easier target for tomorrow? What's wrong with leaving farmer for tomorrow? If Wisdom flips town, any of farmer's defense will be shot to hell. Also, I just killed Wisdom so if he is town, you can lynch farmer today.

[Jeanne11]

Yeah, sorry not sorry. Look at him. The moment someone starts pressuring him more deeply, they become scum. The only reason I haven't become scum yet is because he thinks I am a VI. Yeah, that's the guy you're letting live.

[Jeanne11]

I scumread him for not because versatile at first, therefore I thought he is desperate for mislynch. Then something clicked around his interactions with farmer. I think his push on farmer was planned by farmer and him so that he survives till the end. The fact that he took first opportunity available to leave his scumbuddy's wagon clinches it for me.

[Jeanne11]

Yeah sure. Firebringer supposedly slipped, yet the instant he claims doctor, you back off and return to farmer. Yeah.

[Jeanne11]

You do realize he'll be impossible to lynch tomorrow. If he survives the night, he'll have all sorts of excuses prepared.

[Jeanne11]

Oh, and I am a vig, just not a day one, so....good luck Wisdom.

[Jeanne11]

You didn't tunnel on farmer? That's a lie and we both know it. >.>

Second, explain why I am bad for trying to stop a mislynch?!

[Jeanne11]

Oh btw Wisdom, jeane is a ton better than she used to be even though some of her stubborness needs to drop. I was honestly trying to help back when your argument was going and make her understand why her reasoning was wrong

Sorry, I am not seeing this. She did nothing this game.

So just because you can't see it means nobody else could? >.>

That's the mindset you attacked at least one player for and now you're turning it around and using it yourself.

[Jeanne11]

And don't blame me for this loss, blame yourself tyvm. Suppose I did nothing of value like you say. Then what? With me dead, you had plenty of chances to show off your scum-hunting prowess without me interfering. You showed none. Shouldn't you have won the game for town after the so-called dead weight was silenced? And if we're gonna do bragging, I caught Elyse being scum in YCBA III while you were taken in with her. Titus can vouch for this.

[Jeanne11]

I didn't play in YCBA III.

And I never said you were the only reason town lost - you and Jake were just the primary reasons

So because you didn't, it didn't happen. :s

[Jeanne11]

Sure, make excuses. Lots of excuses.

[Jeanne11]

read the next post after that and then make your pretentious post please

You want to take credit for "catching" somebody you only voted because they voted you and no other reason. Go right ahead. Have your glory

Or maybe you should realize that people can have reasons for scumreading people you might not be able to agree with yet still be right. What you are doing now and what you kept doing during the game is think that if you don't agree with the reasoning for something, that something is trash and doesn't exist.

Yeah, good scumhunting you have. Your scumhunting led to a mislynch.