Open 633: Near Vanilla-GAME OVER

[Imperium]

The honest answer is that I'm not sure; the time that was spent yelling about lynching CoM was originally supposed to be me giving my gamestate as a whole, figuring out who I was comfortable as town, etc.

At this point, Lowell is probably very easily my third, but past that there's Jim whose posting I sort of liked when he was around and then the group of players who I'm town reading but not confidently (and hence could probably see them as scum), which is the mass I'll sort out with our deadline extension.

[Killthestory]

'lol scum'

Walk me through that little jewel, KTS.
Why is 776 a scum post?

lol scum

[OceanWind]

At this point, Lowell is probably very easily my third, but past that there's Jim whose posting I sort of liked when he was around and then the group of players who I'm town reading but not confidently (and hence could probably see them as scum), which is the mass I'll sort out with our deadline extension.

Lowell was the first person who brought up the possibility of ChurchOfMercy being mafia (who you claim to be 95% sure on). He was also the second vote on the wagon. Is he bussing?

[Imperium]

Lowell was the first person who brought up the possibility of ChurchOfMercy being mafia (who you claim to be 95% sure on). He was also the second vote on the wagon. Is he bussing?

Yes.

[Severa]

I like active Tammy.

[Imperium]

Thank you! I prefer being able to be active and having reads I believe in. That's just been hit or miss lately, but I'm almost caught up in life so it should be more normal.

Though both of us have been posting tonight.

[OceanWind]

Lowell was the first person who brought up the possibility of ChurchOfMercy being mafia (who you claim to be 95% sure on). He was also the second vote on the wagon. Is he bussing?

Yes.

I have a hard time buying that considering most of his focus has been on ChurchOfMercy. Is there a past precedent you are using for this read?

I also don't understand your recent townread on Bellaphant. Can you point to something more than that you liked her saying that Lowell was unimpressive and reading MagnaOfIllusion as town for "thought progressions?"

[Imperium]

This head, for one, thinks it's a silly question to ask in the first place. Yes, of course it's possible he was bussing and his focus was on his partner from early on, especially if it's a weak scum partner whom he knows is going to get scum read by people who know how to read him. He busses early and gets that nice little cred.

I do not believe you find that hard to believe.

But again, silly questions to ask pre-flip.

[Xisiqomelir]

@

Imperium (Tammy)

:

Why should I be lynching Snarky (a molehill of bullshit) over CoM (a mountain of bullshit)?

You'll still probably get your desired lynch. MoI and acryon have expressed strong commitment, and I'm still amenable (as I assume OceanWind is).

I stand my belief that the delay is good for town because it will engender further discussion. I also believe it to be better for the jim replacement to come in and participate sooner rather than later.

Why is that scum?

Not voting a scumread is a very strong scumtell. This is also why I'm having big problems with killthestory.

How is it defensive and why does defensive mean scum?

"Entirely defensive", not simply "defensive". Town being wagoned usually has room to comment on other things besides their own situation.

[Killthestory]

If CoM dare be scum Lowell is could be scum. I thought about it, and it seems somewhat likely.

[Killthestory]

@

Imperium (Tammy)

:

Why should I be lynching Snarky (a molehill of bullshit) over CoM (a mountain of bullshit)?

You'll still probably get your desired lynch. MoI and acryon have expressed strong commitment, and I'm still amenable (as I assume OceanWind is).

I stand my belief that the delay is good for town because it will engender further discussion. I also believe it to be better for the jim replacement to come in and participate sooner rather than later.

Why is that scum?

Not voting a scumread is a very strong scumtell. This is also why I'm having big problems with killthestory.

How is it defensive and why does defensive mean scum?

"Entirely defensive", not simply "defensive". Town being wagoned usually has room to comment on other things besides their own situation.

and lol at not voting equals a scumtell.

That's fucking hilarious

[OceanWind]

This head, for one, thinks it's a silly question to ask in the first place. Yes, of course it's possible he was bussing and his focus was on his partner from early on, especially if it's a weak scum partner whom he knows is going to get scum read by people who know how to read him. He busses early and gets that nice little cred.

I do not believe you find that hard to believe.

But again, silly questions to ask pre-flip.

Not really. If you are so confident ChurchOfMercy is mafia, then the rest of your worldview has to align with that. There are several other things that Lowell did that make me think he's town (his reads on Bellaphant and Severa for instance). The only thing I disliked was his insistence that SnarkySnowman was town and Xisiqomelir was mafia.

[Killthestory]

le dank memes

[Imperium]

What about those reads do you like and how come you don't consider his reads shallow like you think Bella's are?

[Imperium]

Wait. Are the things you really like and town read about him because his reads match yours? And what you don't like is where your reads deviate?

Oh boy.

[Killthestory]

le dankest of memes

[OceanWind]

On Lowell's read on Severa, a) the way he reacted to Snarky's case on him looked like town wrongfully pushed on by mafia and the sudden burst of aggression fit in with town that thought he caught onto something. b) the way he accused MagnaOfIllusion of chainsawing had such a force behind it that I'd be very surprised if it came from mafia.
I thought other players would notice that but both ChurchOfMercy and MagnaOfIllusion kept pushing him and not seeing it. Then Lowell came by and voiced exactly what I was thinking. Same with ChurchOfMercy. He pointed out that they'd be more active as town.

Lowell seems to be a very minimalist poster so that's consistent with what I expect from him. On the other hand, I find Bellaphant's reads shallow because as I mentioned earlier, her take on the Acryon/Magna argument seems like she just found Magna a stronger player than Acryon and decided to back him. She provides no original reasoning to suspect Acryon, simply parroting Magna's and her actual reasons are so vague that they don't make any sense. I also don't like her dodging my request to post a link to the game she read.

Wait. Are the things you really like and town read about him because his reads match yours? And what you don't like is where your reads deviate?

Someone else saying what you are thinking can often be a towntell. For players like Lowell who provide close to zero reasoning, I find the best way to read them is to see how they are reacting to events in the thread and whether I can relate to those.

[Killthestory]

how about we nolynch

[OceanWind]

I don't understand why anyone would use cases they don't believe in to "get the game going." I don't RVS vote ever. My first post is usually a vote for the person that I find scummiest based on posts so far, and then I change it whenever someone new does something even scummier and so on. Low information doesn't mean you "clown around" and say things you don't actually believe.

Well this is a matter of play style. The great thing about mafia is that it's made up of humans who have varying approaches and there is no right way. If you expect people to do things your way, you're probably going to be frustrated and not understand things a lot. But that's not really germane to reading each other. If there was something else in this response you wanted me to respond to let me know, otherwise I'd like to get through as much as I can in my limited time right now.

Yeah, actually I'd like you explain why you think I'm supposed to know that MagnaOfIllusion would find Acryon's "self-contradiction" scummy. We both agree that it wasn't. You played with MagnaOfIllusion before so you just think that's how he would interpret it. I didn't and I found him scummy for it.

(And I'm aware people have varying approaches to the game but some approaches are better than others. And no, I don't expect people to "do things my way", no idea where you got that.)

[OceanWind]

ChurchOfMercy is at L-2 with KillTheStory claiming intent to hammer so effective L-1. No one else vote since I really would prefer we don't end this day early.

My primary pool of mafia is still SnarkySnowman, Bellaphant, ChurchOfMercy, and Jim in that order.

I'm less sure about townreads on Lowell and Imperium. Lowell because of his post defending Snarky and some of his later posts not making sense. I do think he's town if ChurchOfMercy is mafia though. I don't buy that he's bussing them. Imperium because a lot of their reasoning doesn't make internal sense. The Lowell-bussing-Church argument is one. Their townread on Bellaphant is shallow and the intense frustration over the SnarkySnowman wagon doesn't make sense when the latter was their second scumread. I also don't like the overly aggressive posturing and it seems a lot different from the game I played with Nachomamma8 where he was a lot more diplomatic and had a "positive energy" for lack of a better word. Specifically the parts where they accused me of "creating a narrative" around Snarky, and the latest posts (807, 814). If Bellaphant and Snarky are mafia like I think, Imperium needs to be looked at.

My read on Ollie is a lot weaker now considering he hasn't done much of anything lately. But the things I townread him for early are pretty strong towntells so he's still leaning town. KillTheStory, MagnaOfIllusion, Nosferatu, Acryon, Xisiqomelir, and Severa are all town.

[OceanWind]

Yeah, and the rush to end the day when it's objectively better to get more information and stances from Jim's replacement and wait for Bellaphant to show up again (I had outstanding questions to her) was pretty bad too.

Stuff I want to get done before ending the day:

1. See Imperium's views on the gamestate as a whole that they planned to post.
2. Get Bellaphant's response.
3. Get Ollie's updated opinion on everything that happened.
3. Wait for Jim's replacement to catch up and post thoughts.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Imperium is so Town it hurts. Any concerns I might have had in the deep recesses of my mind have been washed away in the avalanche of their posting the last 24 hours.

I am also highly suspect of the pool of players saying "I think CoM is scum with [insert player of choice], I just want [player] lynched first for [reasons that make no sense]". Imperium has nailed it right on the head - CoM's play has been scummy and they have done nothing but AtE and Appeal to Fear and try to hop on whatever lifeline alternate wagon may present (Bella, Snarky). Their "Creeper is scum for that reaction" then followup with "Creeper is low hanging fruit" should be enough to convince you that they aren't actually trying to make reads but are manufacturing statements to fit the game-state.

If the thread is still open when I get back from V/LA I will have to address several of Ocean's posts because my quick read-through shows me several things I find suspect.

[OceanWind]

Yeah, I figure you'd reach that conclusion. I don't think anyone has said ChurchOfMercy is mafia

with

another player though. It's more that I thought they

weren't

mafia with Snarky although I'm not confident about that.

[OceanWind]

By the way, if we lynch ChurchOfMercy and they flip mafia, it doesn't clear either Imperium or MagnaOfIllusion.

[OceanWind]

Some of your posts are so one-dimensional I'm not sure what to make of them. It seems like anyone that disagrees with your major scumread is mafia with them. You even called Severa mafia because they were trying to "derail" the ChurchOfMercy wagon. You apparently think Imperium is so town as they pushed that wagon despite the fact that the numbers for the lynch were always there so as much noise as Imperium generated, they didn't affect the outcome of the day. Then, very predictably you called my posts scummy apparently because I've considered other options besides ChurchOfMercy.

The complete lack of discernment makes me wonder if it is in fact MagnaOfIllusion/Imperium/ChurchOfMercy. Both decent players bussing the lynchbait and tying anyone and everyone possible with the doomed partner so as to generate mislynches the following days. If not both, at least one.

MagnaOfIllusion's posts, I have been townreading and I'm still not sure he's mafia but I'd expect there to be more depth to his analysis than "you defended CoM, ergo mafia."