Mini 1785: Game Over!

[Mr Meeseeks]

thats not a reason to townread someone

null at most

because players that play scummy as town also, shock horror, play scummy as scum

him playing scummy now and having played scummy as town does not immediately mean that him playing scummy makes him town

ive explained this before, that is a bs reason to townread someone if i ever saw it

[Garmr]

also this:

I was scum once in a game with Lapsa. I tunneled him for the entire game because his playstyle is easy for scum to attack and noone gave me a 2nd look about it.

That just makes it seem like your trying something new with lapsa as a scum mate or lapsa is town while your scum.

[Fire Assassin]

I Am Innocent

- townread. very few posts but I like most of em. I really like him going after Kush and Meesks. Feels like legit scumhunting

MURDERCAT

- townread. Pointing out Garmrs Daytalk post reads town to me. I got a similiar feeling when he posted that. Ditto pointing out kush's self-meta. I feel like murdercat is very much on the same page as me this game.

Lapsa

- townread. Already posted my thoughts on Lapsa. Let me add that my 2 top scumreads are pushing this wagon.

Calvary

- slight townread. I like how she came in trying to take the focus off Lapsa since that was consuming the whole game @ that point. would like to see more though.

RadiantCowbells

- Null. played a few games w/ RC now and regardless of alignment he pretty much plays the same. I generally get the feeling that RC randomly chooses who to scumread and then pushes it as hard as he can.

Fire Assassin

- null. He really doesn't say much of anything in his posts though that's kinda the way he played as town in the other games I've played w/ him.

Autti

- null slighly scum. Only 1 post w/ any real content and he spent half of it attacking me which I obviously know is a bad push. Rest of that post seemed bad too. Need more content.

nnn_thekushmountains

Only a slight scumread now cause I don't feel like he jives w/ being Mr Meesks scumbuddy. It's just too much hard-defending. Other than that I've thought he was scummy most of the game which I've posted about plenty.

Jake from State Farm

- slight scumread. For the number of posts he has, there's very little content in em. don't have much more than that

acryon

- scumread. Read very scummy to me earlier and then I kinda forgot about him. Just reread his ISO and he does seem to just go w/ town sentiment alot. Like his top scumreads now seem to be Me, Kush and Lapsa. He has very little thoughts of his own.

Garmr

- scumread. Didn't like the "scum have daytalk?" post. Also feels like alot of his interaction w/ Lapsa is calling him a bad player instead of actually scumreading him. Though I'm pretty sure Mr Meesks is scum and garmr seemed to go after him kind of hard earlier. Though that also makes me wonder why garmr isn't concerned that Lapsa is Meeks top scumread. Also, he's also going hard after murdercat who I'm townreading.

Mr Meeseeks

- Top scumread. Reasons already posted.

This read wall is one of the worst I have ever seen. I don't know if I should say this is scum or town read wall. I just highly disagree with it.

[JarJarDrinks]

thats not a reason to townread someone

null at most

because players that play scummy as town also, shock horror, play scummy as scum

him playing scummy now and having played scummy as town does not immediately mean that him playing scummy makes him town

ive explained this before, that is a bs reason to townread someone if i ever saw it

ok but you said I hadn't given a "single fucking reason". Whether you think it's a good reason or not is immaterial. I posted it cause you lied and said I didnt give any other reason.

[JarJarDrinks]

also this:

I was scum once in a game with Lapsa. I tunneled him for the entire game because his playstyle is easy for scum to attack and noone gave me a 2nd look about it.

That just makes it seem like your trying something new with lapsa as a scum mate or lapsa is town while your scum.

If I'm town, what's that make Lapsa?

[Mr Meeseeks]

thats not a reason to townread someone

null at most

because players that play scummy as town also, shock horror, play scummy as scum

him playing scummy now and having played scummy as town does not immediately mean that him playing scummy makes him town

ive explained this before, that is a bs reason to townread someone if i ever saw it

ok but you said I hadn't given a "single fucking reason". Whether you think it's a good reason or not is immaterial. I posted it cause you lied and said I didnt give any other reason.

i mean i pretty much just explained that it is NOT A FUCKING REASON TO TOWNREAD SOMEONE therefore you havent given aa SINGLE FUCKING REASON

i meant a single good reason but sure, ignore what anyone with half a brain can see that i meant and pick at the exact wording

and i bet you wonder why i think youre scum

[Autti]

also this:

I was scum once in a game with Lapsa. I tunneled him for the entire game because his playstyle is easy for scum to attack and noone gave me a 2nd look about it.

Wait so your argument is that scum lapsa presents as obvious scum, and therefore you not tunnelling him makes you town? Wtf. If scum lapsa is obvious, like he is now, then we should Lynch him. Then we should Lynch you next for defending him.

[JarJarDrinks]

I love how not a single person has questioned meeks about his contradictions. I've literally shown how he's attacked people for calling something scummy that he himself believed was scummy and people just show up and are like "Hurr Durr, Bad reads. JJD so scum"

[JarJarDrinks]

also this:

I was scum once in a game with Lapsa. I tunneled him for the entire game because his playstyle is easy for scum to attack and noone gave me a 2nd look about it.

Wait so your argument is that scum lapsa presents as obvious scum, and therefore you not tunnelling him makes you town? Wtf. If scum lapsa is obvious, like he is now, then we should Lynch him. Then we should Lynch you next for defending him.

I was scum in a game where Lapsa was town*

[JarJarDrinks]

you better trust this guy who still hasnt given a single fucking reasons for lapsa being town besides not liking the reasons why lapsa is scum and lapsa being pushed by his scumreads

Those are good reasons. When a wagon easily forms on someone for shitty reasons, it's usually cause they are town and there's scum pushing it. That's a towntell for me and I've been correct so far in reading it that way in my past games.

[Calvary]

also this:

I was scum once in a game with Lapsa. I tunneled him for the entire game because his playstyle is easy for scum to attack and noone gave me a 2nd look about it.

Wait so your argument is that scum lapsa presents as obvious scum, and therefore you not tunnelling him makes you town? Wtf. If scum lapsa is obvious, like he is now, then we should Lynch him. Then we should Lynch you next for defending him.

I was scum in a game where Lapsa was town*

Okay, but your awareness of what happened in that particular game as a reason for why you're defending Lapsa as hard as you have done isn't a strong defense to me. You could easily be a wolf trying to pocket Lapsa by acknowledging the way you treated them (as scum) and contrasting that with the way you're acting now.

[Mr Meeseeks]

Lapsa (4):

RadiantCowbells, Garmr, Mr Meeseeks, acryon

right so, 4 votes at its height as far as i can see? that doesnt look that much like an easy wagon if you ask me.

hell, id say an easier wagon with shitty reasoning would be... why, kush with 7 votes at its peak! how does lapsa get a free pass and not kush??

[Mr Meeseeks]

I love how not a single person has questioned meeks about his contradictions. I've literally shown how he's attacked people for calling something scummy that he himself believed was scummy and people just show up and are like "Hurr Durr, Bad reads. JJD so scum"

thats because theyre not contradictions

theyre teeny-tiny little inconsistencies which you are making out to be biiiigggg obvscum things

blowing things out of proportion for a scumread, huh, add that to the list of scummy things youve done

[Calvary]

Lapsa (4):

RadiantCowbells, Garmr, Mr Meeseeks, acryon

right so, 4 votes at its height as far as i can see? that doesnt look that much like an easy wagon if you ask me.

hell, id say an easier wagon with shitty reasoning would be... why, kush with 7 votes at its peak! how does lapsa get a free pass and not kush??

I agree that the Kush wagon is terrible. None of his voters (Innocent, Jake, Fire iirc) are town-reads for me. What's the case on him again - his opening post (where I am supposed to believe that someone would slip that badly in their

first

post) and some WIFOM from him about "I'm acting differently this game so I'm town" ?

[Calvary]

Given that we already have scrubs who are saying shit like "final wagons are forming" and "people are tunneling so we should just lynch the player being tunneled" I am going to move away from the main cases and onto this sheep who is content to lurk in the background, spectate the game and go with the flow.

VOTE: Fire Assassin

I've played with Fire off-site and I can acknowledge that his play-style may be different to what I expect from him. (e.g., he clears townies a lot more than he does here, but I get why that's the case and I'm not scum-reading him for not doing that) However, I don't think that's an adequate explanation for what he's done this game.

92 - Votes Lapsa. 2nd vote on the wagon.

I guess a better phrased question would be, anything I should focus on in the last four pages while I skim it?

How haven't you already skimmed it? Its mostly standard RVS, though Lapsa sticks out cause he is trying to get reasons for votes from people and asking a lot of questions. It seems like someone attempting to look like like they are town.

What's the difference between 'someone attempting to look like town' and someone actually trying to move discussion away from RVS? Why did Lapsa's behaviour fall in the former category?

102 and 106 are two examples of posts where he comments on the game but does not relate this to scum-reading or town-clearing anyone. Comes across as complacent and unconcerned about finding scum.

210 - He says that Lapsa has the 'highest chance of flipping scum', implying that Lapsa is his top scum-read...

the counterargument is powerful.

Lapsa was the main wagon....I think.
I don't know, Kush might be scum, I feel more so on Lapsa.
Might need to reread.

...but when Kush comes up as a potential option, he dithers around and never explains why he thinks Kush could be a better option than Lapsa or why he feels that Lapsa is a stronger case at that point in time. Doesn't stick to his guns either, given he later votes Kush 'for pressure'

hmmm.....I am rethinking this actually.
I wonder how much I am misreading by language barriers?
UNVOTE:

Claims language barriers could be causing him to scum-read Lapsa, even though his initial reason for voting Lapsa was because they were asking a lot of questions and 'trying to look town' which isn't something that would change much even if Lapsa was a native speaker, so this reason does not make any sense. If there's any progression in his Lapsa read from 'most likely to flip scum' to 'possible misreading due to language' then we're not informed of it.

Fire, what posts gave you the impression that you were misreading Lapsa? Were there any other reasons that made you reconsider your vote?

Willing to push either of these two right now.

Spoiler alert: He doesn't. The fact he didn't pick a side or make any attempts at figuring out which one of the two is the most likely to be scum comes across as scum who wants to leave his options open.

527, where he switches over to Kush as he is 'fine pressuring this', is a worthless vote. A five year old would figure out that outright stating your vote is for 'pressure' weakens the pressure of that vote. Why he thinks Kush needs

more

pressure after he's been discussed in a fair amount of detail eludes me.

Hey Garmr, how is life going?

Pretty good yourself. Have any thoughts. So is my mason buddy town and who's yah hydra head?

I am thinking JarJar looks suspicious, ill dig into them later.
I am just an assassin man. I don't like defining myself as town or scum. I am just me.

Once JarJar's case gains traction, he considers switching over to them...for reasons. Notice that he's only voted for Lapsa and Kush at this stage - players that have had more than their fair share of the spotlight.

Fire, I'd like you to follow up on that 'digging' through JarJar's posts that you promised to do. You should also explain why you felt that Kush needed more pressure given what had already happened.

On the other hand, I find that 237 (despite exaggerating what Meeseeks actually said) and 535 to be some decent contributions, but his preference to bandwagon and not push anyone outweighs this. This is the kind of behaviour that fits the profile of a lurking scum who seeks to avoid attention and is precisely why focusing on players such as Kush, Lapsa, JarJar, etc, to the point where there's an unwillingness to consider other options is a sub-optimal move.

Discuss.

[Lapsa]

cat -
been on most wagons. nothing really pings scum

calvary -
lots of plain analysis instead of "TEH SCUMHUNTINGZ"

acryon -
i've seen several players with similar "Death note themed mindset".
seems inexperienced yet enthusiastic.
prime target for scum manipulations which might have already taken place

jarjar -
should not be underestimated.
way less pretentious than in his scum game.
has been all over the place instead of just tunneling lapsa.
language seems natural (that's an important tell), sound reasoning.
his defence on me is in a sweetspot i would expect from an acquainted town-aligned player.
our reads diverge on [innocent, assassin, garm, meesex] though.
slight townlean

autti -
garm's making good effort at mucking this game.
[autti, garm] scumteam seems viable.
praising meesex for #379 feels bad.
judgment of events unrelated to me feels totally town though.
slight townlean

rc -
vote pattern seems mostly natural with exception of #204 - jake vote feels like probing for easy lynch.
lapsa tunnel indeed is eeringly similar with what jarjar did in his scum game.
can stomach rc's issues with jjd but having issues with cat seems too much.
slight townlean / null read

garm -
his tunnel on me feels familiar - we've been there already.
but he's much more disruptive.
lots of fluff, bullshit reasoning, stagnant reads.
null read / slight scumlean

meesex -
initiated wagon on acryon.
oddworld reasoning everywhere - doesn't resonate with me at all.
could be scum but also could be a noob who's being used for scum manipulations.
wouldn't mind him getting lynched i guess although must refine my read before doing so

assassin -
low on content.
somehow i just don't like that guy and don't know why.
slight scumlean

jake -
i kind a liked his explanation of what's blatantly obvious.
his vote on me seems understandable.
i think there's slight chance he's associated with meesex because of #64 - seems staged.
+ meesex`s #13.
interesting smalltalk with innocent.
seems to be too experienced for such apathy V/LA or not
scumlean

kush -
need to refine my read.
timing of some things seems off - e.g. townread on me.
scumlean

innocent -
sheeps RC and jumps on kush.
i have no idea wtf is that huge slip inno is talking about on #238.
low on content.
scumread

[Lapsa]

i'm willing to support calvary with pressuring assassin

VOTE: Fire Assassin

[Calvary]

calvary -
lots of plain analysis instead of "TEH SCUMHUNTINGZ"

What do you conclude from that - more likely to be town or scum?

jarjar -
should not be underestimated.
way less pretentious than in his scum game.
has been all over the place instead of just tunneling lapsa.
language seems natural (that's an important tell), sound reasoning.
his defence on me is in a sweetspot i would expect from an acquainted town-aligned player.
our reads diverge on [innocent, assassin, garm, meesex] though.
slight townlean

Which game do you refer to here? Would like to look for myself.

Why do you think that him being 'all over the place' is more likely to come from a town mindset than scum? As in, what makes you think it's not wagon-shopping?

autti -
garm's making good effort at mucking this game.
[autti, garm] scumteam seems viable.
praising meesex for #379 feels bad.
judgment of events unrelated to me feels totally town though.
slight townlean

Your Autti read list consists of mostly scummy behaviour and apparently that's strong enough that you have made a pre-flip association already, so what about his catch-up posts negates that enough that you conclude that he's a 'slight townlean'? Because from this list I would have expected a stronger scum-read.

meesex -
initiated wagon on acryon.
oddworld reasoning everywhere - doesn't resonate with me at all.
could be scum but also could be a noob who's being used for scum manipulations.
wouldn't mind him getting lynched i guess although must refine my read before doing so

You said that JarJar's tone feels natural, do you think the same applies here with Meeseeks?

I agree with the reads on Assassin, Innocent, Garm, RC.

[Lapsa]

calvary -
lots of plain analysis instead of "TEH SCUMHUNTINGZ"

What do you conclude from that - more likely to be town or scum?

reads are sorted

jarjar -
should not be underestimated.
way less pretentious than in his scum game.
has been all over the place instead of just tunneling lapsa.
language seems natural (that's an important tell), sound reasoning.
his defence on me is in a sweetspot i would expect from an acquainted town-aligned player.
our reads diverge on [innocent, assassin, garm, meesex] though.
slight townlean

Which game do you refer to here? Would like to look for myself.

Why do you think that him being 'all over the place' is more likely to come from a town mindset than scum? As in, what makes you think it's not wagon-shopping?

Circus mafia 1728

his reasoning kind a seems ok.
'all over the place' is bit exaggerated.
but that could be according to jarjar's plan since he came up with that tunneling thing

but i really need to dive deep into kush and meesex wagon analysis to make stronger conclusions

autti -
garm's making good effort at mucking this game.
[autti, garm] scumteam seems viable.
praising meesex for #379 feels bad.
judgment of events unrelated to me feels totally town though.
slight townlean

Your Autti read list consists of mostly scummy behaviour and apparently that's strong enough that you have made a pre-flip association already, so what about his catch-up posts negates that enough that you conclude that he's a 'slight townlean'? Because from this list I would have expected a stronger scum-read.

that 'scummy behavior' seems to be towards Lapsa wagon only and since i'm a special snowflake - scumminess is arguable

can downgrade that fella to null if that pleases you

meesex -
initiated wagon on acryon.
oddworld reasoning everywhere - doesn't resonate with me at all.
could be scum but also could be a noob who's being used for scum manipulations.
wouldn't mind him getting lynched i guess although must refine my read before doing so

You said that JarJar's tone feels natural, do you think the same applies here with Meeseeks?

I agree with the reads on Assassin, Innocent, Garm, RC.

no, it does not.
jarjar thing comes from past experience, i haven't played with meesex.
and i already stated that meesex makes no sense whatsoever to me

[nnn_thekushmountains]

From everything I read, meseeks is seeming townier. Acyron mindmelded with him.

Jarjar is probably tunneled town but possibly scum.

I am still happy with where my vote is but I don't think fire assassin is a bad lynch either.

[Calvary]

autti -
garm's making good effort at mucking this game.
[autti, garm] scumteam seems viable.
praising meesex for #379 feels bad.
judgment of events unrelated to me feels totally town though.
slight townlean

Your Autti read list consists of mostly scummy behaviour and apparently that's strong enough that you have made a pre-flip association already, so what about his catch-up posts negates that enough that you conclude that he's a 'slight townlean'? Because from this list I would have expected a stronger scum-read.

that 'scummy behavior' seems to be towards Lapsa wagon only and since i'm a special snowflake - scumminess is arguable

can downgrade that fella to null if that pleases you

Firstly, what's the deal with referring to yourself in the third person?

Secondly, why would you offer to change your read of someone just because I asked you to explain your initial reasoning? It's not like I offered evidence that contradicted your read.

In terms of associations, I am just looking at individual players. Pre-flip associations on Day 1 are always terrible due to the lack of anything to go off and stating "I think so-and-so are scum together" can give the scum ideas on how to act towards each other to make sure they can't be caught out that way.

[nnn_thekushmountains]

About the tone of my posts: they are meant to be funny but also honest.

[nnn_thekushmountains]

Lapsa why did my townreading timing on you feel off?

[Calvary]

From everything I read, meseeks is seeming townier. Acyron mindmelded with him.

Jarjar is probably tunneled town but possibly scum.

I am still happy with where my vote is but I don't think fire assassin is a bad lynch either.

What points made against JarJar do you think make him 'possible scum'? Who do you think is tunneling him and what do you think their intentions for doing that are?

Why do you think Fire isn't a bad lynch?

Pre-edit: Why do you keep bringing up that you want the tone of your posts to be 'honest'? Doesn't that go without saying?

[Lapsa]

Firstly, what's the deal with referring to yourself in the third person?

dunno. you tell me

Secondly, why would you offer to change your read of someone just because I asked you to explain your initial reasoning? It's not like I offered evidence that contradicted your read.

it's far from being strong read. you can sway me a lot on it. in fact, before creating reads list - he was in my scumlean box

In terms of associations, I am just looking at individual players. Pre-flip associations on Day 1 are always terrible due to the lack of anything to go off and stating "I think so-and-so are scum together" can give the scum ideas on how to act towards each other to make sure they can't be caught out that way.

perhaps so. but spotlight on particular association can shrink space for scum to squirm in. eventually that will lead to eye-soaring contradictions