Newbie 1691 - Game Over

[SummerInWonderland]

ass-kicked and I giggled :p

[mhsmith0]

'm not even clear on why Scum!KAAG would hammer himself

Self-hammering denies the town information and protects the partner. Like, that's wolf play 101. Once you're doomed, self-hammer. It's even explicitly covered in the IC guide
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _a_good_IC

Of course, if you're scum then feel free to self-vote/self-hammer. Self-voting/self-hammering as scum denies the town information and IS playing toward your win condition by confusing the remaining townies and allowing your partner to hide in the confusion.

At any rate, I won't be quick voting. But it is certainly true that you chose not to seriously consider the possibility of scum!KAAG, and aggressively argued that it MUST be either YA/MHS or KAAG/A50. I'm not deciding anything right now, but you're the current favorite for getting lynched D4.

[mhsmith0]

ass-kicked and I giggled :p

He really did play well though. So it's more of us patting ourselves on the back for a job well done (I know I am ) than it is that he did poorly or deserved to get lynched or lose.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

ass-kicked and I giggled :p

You've been working on that all day, right?

[Almost50]

A50: please give me a few links to games where you subbed in, preferably at least one as town and one as wolf. Not ASAP but this WILL be coming up on D4.

Unfortunately that would be IMPOSSIBLE. I've only subbed in in 3 games (including this game), and I've never subbed in as scum. On one I've subbed in early enough (D1) so it's on my list (on my wiki page.. I think it's #7.. the one modded by pisskop). The other I subbed in during N2 and I only posted ONCE to place the hammer on the last scum, so I don't even have it on the list.

I only sub-in when I'm board (not much going on on ongoing games or I'm waiting on queues for new games to start) and I never sub-out either.

If you want the final word here: TAKE IT ON FAITH. Just lynch YA on D4 and see how it goes. From there on I promise you will be able to tell whether you can trust me for the next 100 games or never again. I will repeat this part: you will KNOW whether you can trust me on ANY GIVEN GAME we ever get to play together from now on, or to NOT trust me ever again.

[mhsmith0]

If you want the final word here: TAKE IT ON FAITH. Just lynch YA on D4 and see how it goes. From there on I promise you will be able to tell whether you can trust me for the next 100 games or never again. I will repeat this part: you will KNOW whether you can trust me on ANY GIVEN GAME we ever get to play together from now on, or to NOT trust me ever again.

I will consider doing so. I truly will. But I won't take it on blind faith. Reason will rule the day, or at least that's the plan. And if not there's always the coin option

At any rate, we will all have plenty of time to parse KAAG's production and argue if or how he implicated either of you through his actions. YA has been promising a sexy case on KAAG-Egg, so we'll have that to look forward to on D4 as well.

[SummerInWonderland]

50 made himself look pretty scummy to me.
His posts just made him and kaag look more and more scummy as a team I think

[mhsmith0]

50 made himself look pretty scummy to me.
His posts just made him and kaag look more and more scummy as a team I think

It seems that way. But YA and his issues don't get a free pass either. It'll be annoying if his slot has to sub as well.

[SummerInWonderland]

ya true
one thing about 50 is to me it looks like he got sparknotes from a buddy.

[mhsmith0]

now that is entirely possible. also possible that he totally blew it and went deep into conf!bias mode.

on the YA side, the KAAG-YA fight earlier in D3 felt kind of fake at the time. I'll re-read it to see if I still think that way. It felt faker from KAAG than YA though so it could have just been him messing with YA. That's another priority item on the list.

PS Isn't this fun?

[Almost50]

50 made himself look pretty scummy to me.
His posts just made him and kaag look more and more scummy as a team I think

Yes, please. Keep on.. THIS will force YA not to kill you, and with you protecting smith (the only other confirmed townie) N3 is guaranteed to end with a NO KILL. (If I'm scum I wouldn't shoot the ONLY other suspect, and vice-versa. You protect smith so he doesn't die and if you get shot it's smith + me vs YA. YA then needs YOU to stay alive to make his lynch harder. He could still kill you for the WIFOM and all, but it won't go far with smith, and YA will end up lynched after having come this close)

@smith:

Let me think for a little bit. Not necessarily today even.. we can wait for the next day phase.. but -maybe- I will figure out a way to make you vote YA beyond a shred of doubt. For now, I accept that you don't know which of us is scum and which is town. But you may still want to take a quick look at my finished games and see how I generally play.. maybe.. until I think of the -hopefully- conclusive evidence.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Macavity’s a Mystery Cat: he’s called the Hidden Paw—
For he’s the master criminal who can defy the Law.
He’s the bafflement of Scotland Yard, the Flying Squad’s despair:
For when they reach the scene of crime—
Macavity’s not there!

Macavity, Macavity, there’s no one like Macavity,
He’s broken every human law, he breaks the law of gravity.
His powers of levitation would make a fakir stare,
And when you reach the scene of crime—
Macavity’s not there!
You may seek him in the basement, you may look up in the air—
But I tell you once and once again,
Macavity’s not there!

Macavity’s a ginger cat, he’s very tall and thin;
You would know him if you saw him, for his eyes are sunken in.
His brow is deeply lined with thought, his head is highly domed;
His coat is dusty from neglect, his whiskers are uncombed.
He sways his head from side to side, with movements like a snake;
And when you think he’s half asleep, he’s always wide awake.
Macavity, Macavity, there’s no one like Macavity,
For he’s a fiend in feline shape, a monster of depravity.
You may meet him in a by-street, you may see him in the square—
But when a crime’s discovered, then
Macavity’s not there!

He’s outwardly respectable. (They say he cheats at cards.)
And his footprints are not found in any file of Scotland Yard’s.
And when the larder’s looted, or the jewel-case is rifled,
Or when the milk is missing, or another Peke’s been stifled,
Or the greenhouse glass is broken, and the trellis past repair—
Ay, there’s the wonder of the thing!
Macavity’s not there

And when the Foreign Office find a Treaty’s gone astray,
Or the Admiralty lose some plans and drawings by the way,
There may be a scrap of paper in the hall or on the stair—
But it’s useless to investigate—
Macavity’s not there!
And when the loss has been disclosed, the Secret Service say:
‘It must have been Macavity!’—but he’s a mile away.
You’ll be sure to find him resting, or a-licking of his thumbs,
Or engaged in doing complicated long division sums.

Macavity, Macavity, there’s no one like Macavity,
There never was a Cat of such deceitfulness and suavity.
He always has an alibi, or one or two to spare:
And whatever time the deed took place—MACAVITY WASN’T THERE!
And they say that all the Cats whose wicked deeds are widely known
(I might mention Mungojerrie, I might mention Griddlebone)
Are nothing more than agents for the Cat who, all the time,
Just controls their operations: the Napoleon of Crime!

[SummerInWonderland]

they also both were pushing to lynch ya- they only needed one more to go on.

also I was second guessing myself a lot after I voted because of how they continued to talk- but I thought I was right and held through and am glad I did.
do what you need to do but I do think its 50

[mhsmith0]

Let me think for a little bit. Not necessarily today even.. we can wait for the next day phase.. but -maybe- I will figure out a way to make you vote YA beyond a shred of doubt. For now, I accept that you don't know which of us is scum and which is town. But you may still want to take a quick look at my finished games and see how I generally play.. maybe.. until I think of the -hopefully- conclusive evidence.

Right now, I think that's the best you can do after a D3 that was terrible for town and kind of blatant for wolf. I'm certainly leaning your way, but I'm not fully convinced yet. I try and re-evaluate every day (part of why I nabbed KAAG d3), and will do so on D4.

I hope you come up with a great case. I hope YA does too. This has overall been a pretty reasonably well-played game (with a few down notes and dead periods, I'll admit), and I hope the ending, however it goes down, reflects the same.

/ninjad: I also think it's A50, but YA doesn't deserve a pass. He's done some wolfy stuff this game too.

[SummerInWonderland]

They wanted someone to go after YA.
That's all they needed to win.
what makes you think 50 is town at all? just wondering. is it just because you think YA could be scum? doesn't deserve a free pass?

[mhsmith0]

Part of it is YA. Part of it is that town can simply be utterly, horribly, completely wrong. Also, it was really bizarre play if it was a KAAG-A50 team. Why even bother going after me when going after YA was probably pretty lynchable? Maybe it was for the pride of a sweep, that's a plausible motive. I'm just trying to figure out what he could have been thinking, and I'm not quite able to rule out a town motive just yet. But yeah, put a gun to my head and ask me to pick who's the wolf, and I'd say A50.

[mhsmith0]

btw, KAAG, who do you think is the wolfiest and why? Screw the win condition, help the town out!

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Summer.

There's an evil glint in her Avatar's eye...I'd watch her closely.

[Almost50]

btw, KAAG, who do you think is the wolfiest and why? Screw the win condition, help the town out!

That's probably one of the most cheerful/humorous posts I've read in a while. You're competing for -my own- best humorous player along with PK & RC.

[SummerInWonderland]

also why would kaag self hammer if ya is his partner - he did it to keep ya open as potential partner probably
IF 50 is town (which I don't think he is) then this applies

[mhsmith0]

Summer.

There's an evil glint in her Avatar's eye...I'd watch her closely.

FWIW, now that I'm conf!town I can confess that back in D1 I actually intentionally tried to set Summer and UTL against each other right before their fight. Wanted to see what would happen, since I was kind of wolf-reading them both at the time (and didn't want ALL of the content to be coming from me directly ). Picking at that one might have been a useful AtE point against me if you and your buddy had noticed. I certainly wasn't going to draw attention to it though

[mhsmith0]

Speaking of humorous posts, this was the best one I can recall from a game I've read:

http://www.playdiplomacy.com/forum/view ... +5#p824156

Crunkus is like the undisputed veteran in this game, right? So:

Crunkus wrote:
Reaction tests can work.

It is an over-used tactic. Most of the time, they won't and it's all about execution.

It's more often used, by town more often than by scum, to make something that you really didn't know where it was going to go sound like it had more intent and meaning behind it.

Most of the reactions that catch scum tend to be realized after the fact though, not through deliberate trapping. You do a bunch of stuff that cultivates people stepping in it and hope that they do and someone will realize it and be able to successfully articulate it.

I used a reaction test in Vampires V Werewolf on Doc Psycho and caught him as a vampire once. I think I also lied about something on my role message (after clearing it with the GM, Ugluk) in I think the first game of Resistance and caught a bad guy that way. But even when you do with it with intent...it's most often not going to work. You have to get lucky...and mostly you trick yourself into thinking a result means something it doesn't because you pre-built in this bias of expectation.

lecrae wrote:
Right now, I just see that reaction testing is a viable option for people in certain situations when passing the potato, and I might end up using it if I don't have a good scumread

lecrae: So I think I'm going to try to cross the mountains at Dead Man's Pass.
Grizzled Mountain Man: Dead Man's Pass, eh? It can be crossed. Plenty of people try, most don't make it out alive between the bears, the snow, the rocks, and the Frost Giants. Most folks who try are fools. Easier to just drive around Route 5. I managed to traverse Dead Man's Pass once, though even when you do it right you've gotta get lucky, and plenty of experienced climbers get lost up there.
lecrae: Right now I just see that Dead Man's Pass is a viable option, and I might end up going up there.


lecrae, your takeaway is technically correct. But just take Route 5, dude.

[mhsmith0]

Also, as long as we're in the "talking about stuff other than solving the game phase"... sorry for being an asshole to you and forcing you out of the game, UTL. I really didn't mean to do that

[mhsmith0]

back to game solving!

And I think you already know what I mean.

No, I don't. Honest! You do want to lynch scum, right?

If you're not a wolf, we will have words over this. The answer should be super obvious.

@A50: did you REALLY not understand what I meant here:

If I'm to lose, I'd rather blame it on really good play from the other team than my own ineptness.

Vote YAWN and you still won't lose. Not today at the very least.

There is ZERO reason why I would want to do this given Summer's KAAG vote. And I think you already know what I mean. Which makes me seriously wonder why you'd even ask for me to do this.

The answer really was super obvious. I want you to either cop to BS'ing here and explain yourself, or double down on this.

[SummerInWonderland]

mhsmith I wouldn't worry too much about it! I am sure she's probably is over it now
and yea when I look back I probably should have claimed BP because then we would have had a better chance at this point!