Mini 1782 Game Over

[Nosferatu]

I don't remember lowell being this jumpy with his votes in the last game I played with him. Do you?

[Roshar]

The game I meta'd he was actually. Don't remember the votes, but his scum reads were given in a similar manner. I should probably do a bit more metas.

[Nosferatu]

after reading the game, he also wasn't really a fan of gut reads, as I can't seem to find

any

in his ISO there. So what meta did you read

[Roshar]

Aw, man Nos, that's not fair. This was like a week ago and I never paid any attention to the name of the game. He was town in it, but that's all I remember. Will try finding it.

[Roshar]

Wasn't aware of wiki pages at that point, so I had looked at previous posts of his and clicked a mafia game thread.

[Ircher]

Vote Count - Day 1 VC #19

Titus (0) -
Mhsmith (0) -
Huntress (0) -
Froot (0) -
Johnny (0) -

Max (4) (L-3) - Froot, Titus, Rosh, Clumsy

FA_Q2 (0) -
Shaddow (0) -
Nos (0) -
Plain (0) -
Lowell (1) - Nos

Clumsy (5) (L-2) - Lowell, FA_Q2, Plain, Mhsmith, Max

Rosh (1) - Huntress
No Lynch (0) -
Not Voting (2) - Johnny, Shaddow

Deadline

Day 1 will end on April 20 8:45 PM EST or in (expired on 2016-04-20 20:45:00).

Lynch Threshold

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Mod Notes

Shaddowez was prodded.
Deadline is in less than a day.

There will be no extensions.

[Froot Loop]

OK, change of plans, I'll be here for a couple of hours! If that makes any difference.

Lowell's a strange one. When I look back at his ISO, there's so much dodging and procrastinating, along with the unsubstantiated vote on Nos and he just hasn't participated in discussion. There's a lot of anti-town/scum-looking things but I just get a town vibe from him. I'll compromise on him if necessary and I guess he'd be my second choice.

[Roshar]

Check out Prophecy Mafia.

[Roshar]

Personally will not be willing to lynch Lowell.

[Lowell]

Nah dudes I'm way better than this as scum. Relax, Nos, and vote clumsy or max.

[Clumsy]

I suppose add Froot to the people I think are town.

@Froot
The reason I say that is that a lot of your posts have seemed to be just surface questioning or answering, or making observations on the game. It doesn't really seem like you're doing much digging, you know?

But by far, you are not in my idea of a good lynch today at all. It could just be your play/posting style like I said in the original post. Just putting my observations out there.

Here's some examples if you would like them.

Spoiler: Quotes

I'm on my phone so I can't quote.

I think there's evidence that that inactivity was legitimate, rather than scum avoiding saying anything in the thread. Voting for clumsy for inactivity is now illegitimate for me.

Is that the only reasoning behind the wagon on clumsy? That would seem rather odd considering they seem to be the only wagon at this point.

I second Roshar's question to Huntress.

I feel good about smith's vote on Clumsy, it's not just for being a lurker. I still think Max is the better choice.

VOTE: Clumsy

L-1

Let's get things moving.

Do you mean to a lynch, or is this a pressure vote?

What is town arguing anyway?

it's a bunch of town-aligned players arguing amongst themsleves

@Clumsy - when/why did your read on Maverick change? You said he's lean town in post 561.

Sorry, just saw this, although a bit more information would be nice:

That post was about Maverick. But now I'm back to on the fence with him. It's almost exclusively gut though. Something is bothering me about him, and I can't figure it out.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and he was a lot more aggressive and talkative in each. One was town and one was scum, so it's hardly certain, but the difference here is jarring, and I suspect it's because he's been trying to keep his head down among what's been, let's just say, some aggressive personalities. He hasn't been scum reading anyone, he hasn't been getting into the fray, he's been keeping his head down as much as he can.

If he was chatty as town and scum, he could be posting less as town and scum? Interestingly, I get the impression that he's a bit non-committal in general which conflicts with the aggressive play you saw in his other games.

Also, I've had a read through his ISO and come up with these:

-_- If you would care to look at my game history, I only have 2 completed games here. Both of them Newbie games. 9 players, 2 scum. Haven't been in a 12 person game. I thought there would be 3 scum, but I wanted to make sure so I didn't have any errors in logic. The fact that you think it's a ham handed fake townslip is one of the more egotistical things I've seen in a while. Which is saying something.

I read this as a firm response to Lowell saying he faked a townslip. But APF thinks he missed an opportunity to question Lowell further (post 964)

At first, I had the impression that Maverick was just vote hopping to whatever looked good repeatedly. Going with the flow. After going back and ISOing though, it's not true. Decent vibes from this so far. Lean town.

Town read on Maverick.

@APF - you interpreted these as empty words in post 964?

My eyes are throbbing as I read the frst 8 pages.


RC is kund of floating around, and that indicative of him being scummy. But Titus I feel much better about reading.
APF is kind of naughty too. Didnt like much he did.

He has been kind of quiet, which is odd because from the games I've read, he's usually pretty talkative, right? (Not that I can say much on this. >_<)

Just for clarity, is this saying Titus is a town-lean for you?

[my edit]

As for the ISO, I did look into it, but didn't find as much as I had hoped. I like your side of it more, but I could see a scum team between you with this used as distancing. What is interesting is that while you're pushing him pretty hard, you stay near the middle of his readlist. He looks kind of passive while under pressure for you, which pings me as somewhat scummy from my (limited) experience.

Asking pisskop for a concrete read/clarification. Attempted analysis of Roshar/APF ISO. (Fair enough that this was after being pressured.)

I'm way more convinced by my own argument for lynching Max

Max, what's your interpretation of the Jake/FA fight?

Max - why are you reading the fights as TvT? Is there anything specific you can point to?

Also, can you clarify why you think Jake was close to getting lynched?

(my bold, on my post! haha)

What about this question?

I literally cheered at Clumsy's post 1037 then I saw the page one and was like "Oh nooooo.." hahaha. That being said, I don't mind it and the spoiler tags are helpful.

I agree about Lowell advocating for something anti-town.

Anyone who asks things like "is this a pressure vote, or a lynch vote" is inherently suspicious, IMO.

I was trying to clarify Roshar's comment when she voted. Why is asking that scummy?

Lowell, can you clarify this? I hadn't thought about devaluing the vote but considering Roshar's comment when she voted, I wanted to know what she meant.

RC, you're voting for Nos.

This is another of the votes on Nos:

Jake is town, farmer is town. I'm back up to 'meh' on smith.

VOTE: nos

I like this idea. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice... something something... you DONT GET FOOLED AGAIN.

tbh, FA's is the most reasonable, whether or not it's going to stand after his run through, it looks like he's calling Nos out for changing his read a bit baselessly.

I understood that you're voting for RC because of his play in a previous game. Are you looking for scum in this game, or in the things people have done in this game?

Started off as town. Coasting discussion came up. I said it wasn't anything huge, just an observation. Therefore she is in lean town.

[Clumsy]

As for yours, I've been going back and forth with you. Sometimes it feels like good scum hunting from you, other times it feels like you're just trying to find something. In that group, you're the most towards null.

[Maxous]

it's likely this is a choice between two town anyway.

So, choose whichever

[Clumsy]

^

And there's not much time to -safely- switch to someone else, unless they get on here.

[Huntress]

So how about Roshar or Lowell as alternatives?



I don't think there's a realistic chance of lynching Roshar now, judging by recent posts and looking back at the ISO's of those who haven't posted yet today, so I'm moving my vote now but I'll be around for the rest of the day and I'm still very much open to a lynch on Lowell if enough people are willing.

Vote: Maxous

[Ircher]

Vote Count - Day 1 VC #20

Titus (0) -
Mhsmith (0) -
Huntress (0) -
Froot (0) -
Johnny (0) -

Max (5) (L-2) - Froot, Titus, Rosh, Clumsy, Huntress

FA_Q2 (0) -
Shaddow (0) -
Nos (0) -
Plain (0) -
Lowell (1) - Nos

Clumsy (5) (L-2) - Lowell, FA_Q2, Plain, Mhsmith, Max

Rosh (0) -
No Lynch (0) -
Not Voting (2) - Johnny, Shaddow

Deadline

Day 1 will end on April 20 8:45 PM EST or in (expired on 2016-04-20 20:45:00).

Lynch Threshold

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Mod Notes

Shaddowez was prodded.
Deadline is in less than a day.

There will be no extensions.

[Clumsy]

I'm willing on those, but we need Johnny, Shaddow, and the others in here.

[Roshar]

Oh wow, clumsy. Just wow.

For someone who gave a town read in

At first I was very meh about Roshar, looking like she was pushing too hard on something that wasn't really there, but I'm reading more as aggressive scumhunting this go around. Town.

And yes, you've stated your not sure and you keep going back and forth, but how did you jump to wanting to lynch me?

Your reads hold no water.

[Froot Loop]

I'm going now so I'm not going to be able to move my vote again. We need to definitely get a lynch through.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Well this is a pickle. Does anyone

not

think this was a misrep? Because it was the only thing making me want to vote Clumsy

[Clumsy]

Oh wow, clumsy. Just wow.

For someone who gave a town read in

At first I was very meh about Roshar, looking like she was pushing too hard on something that wasn't really there, but I'm reading more as aggressive scumhunting this go around. Town.

And yes, you've stated your not sure and you keep going back and forth, but how did you jump to wanting to lynch me?

Your reads hold no water.

You left out the post number and brought that out of context. That was post number 1053, 200 posts ago, and on top of that, that post was my page 1-5 recap. Now you're misrepping me.

Also, I've given a town read to Max as well.

Well, I didn't get to finish, and I'm on the road now. From what I have, I didn't like APF and RC. Titus hasn't been doing much after the replacement, and that seems sus. She did say it was work and sickness though. Hope you get to feeling better Titus. I'm feeling better about Rosh, and while Lowell is annoying, not sure if actually scummy. Looking into that might be good though.

I like Max for town as well. I'm starting to get a slight feeling that Froot is coasting a bit, but nothing too big. Could be playstyle?

Really need Huntress in here. And the other two replacements when they get here. Ugh.

But you only call out the one about you. You're fine with the Max lynch.


As for why I would lynch you today:

Ugh...

I was feeling better about Maxous when he was the first to unvote me and give time for everything + time for me to talk, but this does make it look a bit worse... but if it's going to be between me and him, even if I were 99% sure he was town... I'm 100% sure I am. So if that's the only other wagon, then yeah.

I'd also highlight this one specifically. "I'm voting max to survive but I definitely do NOT have any kind of opinion about his alignment". If that's a town process, I really struggle to see it.

This is a serious misrep. I explain how I feel directly in the post you quoted. I don't have NO opinion on Maxous. I was town reading Maxous originally. Recent events (that YOU pointed out) are starting to make me doubt that read. I know I'm town. I -THOUGHT- he was town. If I let myself die, that's 100% a town death. If we vote him, that's less than 100% a town death. The odds of a good outcome are better if I hang him than let myself get hung, because I know my alignment and I don't know his.

I don't know if it's normal for your games to have townies throwing themselves onto the campfire willingly, but trying to survive is not a scumtell in my book.

You're starting to worry my Mhs.

{Johnny (Pisskop, FA),}
{Froot}
{FA_Q2 (Mav), Maxous (Jake), Nos, Shaddow}
{Titus (RC), Huntress (Kain, Jeanne), Roshar, Smith}
{APF, Lowell}

Ugh...

I was feeling better about Maxous when he was the first to unvote me and give time for everything + time for me to talk, but this does make it look a bit worse... but if it's going to be between me and him, even if I were 99% sure he was town... I'm 100% sure I am. So if that's the only other wagon, then yeah.

Ugh...

but if it's going to be between me and

her

, even if I were 99% sure

she

was town... I'm 100% sure I am.

On my read list, you're lower than Maxous is. But you didn't have a problem with me voting for him, only for you? In fact, you encouraged the wagon on Maxous.

Clumsy, willing to jump on the Maxous wagon? (you know with him finding you scummy for inactivity with you being on V/LA or what not)

Also the "Oh wow. Just wow." Seems forced as well. Basically, it looks like you're trying to discredit me with faulty logic, ensure the mislynch, and make sure that you don't get hung.

[Clumsy]

To make it clear, this seems really scummy for me, and I'd be just fine with a lynch here.

[Roshar]

I left the page number because that quote was in a wall of text and I don't actually know how to quote the specific quote without having to erase all the other information, so, yah, too much effort.

In terms of that being page 1-5,

is it my fault that your input only continued to page 6?

I didn't have a problem you voting for Max b/c 1) you were on the line and it's understandable you'd vote for anyone other than yourself (if you were town). And you stated you found him off for jumping on you in your inactivity while you were V/LA. He was my stronger scum lead, so yes, I wanted to get that lynch moving.

I find your read list pretty damn inconsistent, so excuse me if I don't use it as reference for your actual thoughts.


Oh, no, trust me, I'm pretty incredulous at your inconsistency.

I'm willing to hammer the moment you've claimed at L-1 so no, I'm fully willing to take the consequences whatever you flip.

[Clumsy]

And I'm not on the line now? How exactly am I being inconsistant? I stated that I'm going back and forth with you. I put you in the lean scum pile. Someone expressed interest in a possible wagon for you. I said I'd be willing to go for that. If you're calling my reads inconsistent, sorry, how dare I have a change of opinion on someone.

[Roshar]

Thank you! It's from my favorite book series, "The Stormlight Archive" by Brandon Sanderson. I highly recommend it

It starts with Mhsmith's post 15. Lowell finds it suspicious and votes for mhsmith. Plain farmer agree's and jumps on the wagon in post 20. He later adds post 24.


All in all, no case at all. What was interesting though was that The plain farmer commented right after mhs's 'suspicious' post, so he obviously read it, but only found it suspicious after Lowell called it out.

I like this. I like this a lot. Very good point, I think it's pretty indicative sometimes.

VOTE: roshar

This guy is barely holding it together and we've just started. Come do this with me and watch this poor rube flail. His ISO reeks of careful scum... already, somehow.

Also clumsy's ham-handed "omg how many scum are there guyz" is the worst fake-townslip I've seen in a while. which is saying something.

maverick is town.

If it's the worst fake-townslip you've seen, why are you not voting for me here? If it's a fake-townslip, that would outright implly that I was scum looking like town, so why on Roshar (

who I think is actually doing well at this point, so I don't get that

) instead of me.

Also, my responses to Lowell have been like that mainly because he's just getting on my nerves.

Well, I didn't get to finish, and I'm on the road now. From what I have, I didn't like APF and RC. Titus hasn't been doing much after the replacement, and that seems sus. She did say it was work and sickness though. Hope you get to feeling better Titus.

I'm feeling better about Rosh

, and while Lowell is annoying, not sure if actually scummy. Looking into that might be good though.

I like Max for town as well. I'm starting to get a slight feeling that Froot is coasting a bit, but nothing too big. Could be playstyle?

Really need Huntress in here. And the other two replacements when they get here. Ugh.

Excuse me if those are the few times you give your reads on me.

Your read on me only started to disintegrate when Huntress chipped in and thought I was scum reading based on play style.

Now all of a sudden, you placed me on the lower side of your read list.

Then you state you're

I'm in the middle with Roshar.

Which then changes to

I'm willing on

those

, but we need Johnny, Shaddow, and the others in here.

So yes. I'm incredulous at how that quickly changed. Without so much as a reason.