New York 194: Guns N' Roses Mafia! (Day 8)


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Post Post #2025 (ISO) » Sun May 08, 2016 8:12 pm

Post by iraonavp »

In post 2022, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 2020, iraonavp wrote:
In post 2017, Aristophanes wrote:^ Correct.

Just read the claim. Too many over justifications, but I'll sheep the Guilty.
Ascetic are annoying anyway.

VOTE: Iraon

Uggh, this was at Drixx.
Got Ninja'd

Do you even think that I'm scum-aligned?

You sound like you don't believe it even here.
Not by play really.
But I tend to sheep claimed guilties, and I see no reason not to in this instance.

The fact that he's obviously lying should be a reason not to sheep it?

That's a ridiculous policy.
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Post Post #2026 (ISO) » Sun May 08, 2016 8:19 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

I wouldn't call it a policy, as it is situationally based.
However, I'd rather risk losing an ascetic enabler than a watcher.
If he is scum, he's dead meat tomorrow. If he's town, he is far better to us alive than dead.
It's merely weighing the potential risks. Your lynch is the better play here.
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Post Post #2027 (ISO) » Sun May 08, 2016 8:21 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 2023, iraonavp wrote:
In post 2012, Fraggernaut wrote:I am holding my claim, I hard claim & I will never rescind.

There is no way Fraggernaut would say this if he was telling the truth.
This was an odd post, I agree.

In post 2024, iraonavp wrote:
In post 2021, Aristophanes wrote:
In post 2019, iraonavp wrote:I don't know, but why would I kill pisskop since I know I'm town-aligned?
Well, if we go by the theory that you are town aligned, you wouldn't because your role has no visiting/killing aspect.
So it is only if you are lying, and thus scum, that you could have killed him.
Therefore this post is pointless.

Indeed. I was drawing a comparison to this post:
In post 2018, Fraggernaut wrote:Why would I trade one for one since I know I'm town? I know you visited pisskop the night they died, & I used that information to discern someone else's alignment as well.
I see the parallel, I just don't see the point.
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Post Post #2028 (ISO) » Sun May 08, 2016 9:41 pm

Post by KickAssAndGiggle »

In post 2026, Aristophanes wrote:I wouldn't call it a policy, as it is situationally based.
However, I'd rather risk losing an ascetic enabler than a watcher.
If he is scum, he's dead meat tomorrow. If he's town, he is far better to us alive than dead.
It's merely weighing the potential risks. Your lynch is the better play here.


If it's a fake claim by iraonavp, it's a strange one. I've never been in a game with an ascetic enabler before, so it's hardly common. I get the logic in your post but I find Frag's claim much more suspect than iraonavp's. My gut says Frag is bs'ing.

If iraonavp is telling the truth though, and scum have an ascetic, no way they kill him.

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Post Post #2029 (ISO) » Sun May 08, 2016 11:40 pm

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 2026, Aristophanes wrote:I wouldn't call it a policy, as it is situationally based.
However, I'd rather risk losing an ascetic enabler than a watcher.
If he is scum, he's dead meat tomorrow. If he's town, he is far better to us alive than dead.
It's merely weighing the potential risks. Your lynch is the better play here.

This logic makes sense, except I really really don't believe the claim. When I asked Fragger why he didn't out his guilty yesterday I was looking for something along the lines of his odds of being nightkilled (which, were he town, would have indeed been small) but he didn't even mention them, showing a huge lack of town motivation.
I'm pretty sure Ira is town and Fragger is just claiming to save his skin. I had this discussion with a friend about whether you lynch a claimed guilty all the time or lynch the claimed investigative role of they're playing super scummy, and I think what we decided was to lynch neither, actually. Clearly we'll have to choose between them eventually, but the longer we wait to do so the more information we get from Fragger, if he is town.
This is purely theory, I've never seen it done in practice. What do you guys think about it?
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Post Post #2030 (ISO) » Sun May 08, 2016 11:53 pm

Post by Fraggernaut »

I already knew my odds of being night killed were minimal by the way you have been death tunneling me.

It goes without saying, so I knew I wasn't dying cause mafia will try to get a mislynch on me. If I would of outted with the information about Irao as soon as I saw Irao visiting pisskop, I knew that there would be a target on my head & I would die. Your theory makes no sense Something_Smart. If my play is scummy & I'm actually a PR, you're saying I should out myself right away & get night killed the following night instead of getting more information for town. That is a pretty scummy train of thought that borderlines you wishing you had PR hunted a little harder. Sorry friend, no can do for you.
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Post Post #2031 (ISO) » Sun May 08, 2016 11:56 pm

Post by Fraggernaut »

Instead of being a detriment to town if you're town (I don't think you are), & try to actually analyze the information I provided you.

I seriously doubt there is another protective role in this game, so I'm fairly certain barring a wild occurrence, that I'll be alive tomorrow.
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Post Post #2032 (ISO) » Sun May 08, 2016 11:57 pm

Post by Fraggernaut »

I'll be dead tomorrow*

A JOAT aleady flipped so I doubt there's another protective role.
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Post Post #2033 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 12:06 am

Post by Fraggernaut »

@Something_Smart

Also to answer your theoretic question, I've seen it done before on video mafia which I frequent watching & playing when it comes to opposite checks, with a parody cop ect. You never lynch inside the checks. Forum is a whole different ball game though especially when there's no other explanation for why Irao visited pisskop the night he died. I already compromised once on Irao, & I rather see their flip cause I can then figure out worlds

It's a good try to save your partner Irao though.
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Post Post #2034 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 3:03 am

Post by Slandaar »

My initial thought was how coincidental it was that it was irao being claimed on after Frag's posting D1, but, after looking through his posting Frag's story holds up to scrutiny so lynch Irao - it was just a coincidence. I could go into detail but no real point;
In post 803, Fraggernaut wrote:
You would be okay vigging a PR? Something seems off about this.

In post 810, Fraggernaut wrote:He meant to vig me from what I take from that

PR slip.

VOTE: Irao
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Post Post #2035 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 9:26 am

Post by Something_Smart »

So after thinking about my suggestion I realized the practical downside, which is that we need scumflips to find scum and so we should probably figure out who's scum among Fragger/ira sooner rather than later. I'm assuming that the game Fragger is referring to is a no-flip game, in which it would make perfect sense to lynch outside the 1v1 because the above reason is not there.
In post 2030, Fraggernaut wrote:I already knew my odds of being night killed were minimal by the way you have been death tunneling me.

It goes without saying, so I knew I wasn't dying cause mafia will try to get a mislynch on me. If I would of outted with the information about Irao as soon as I saw Irao visiting pisskop, I knew that there would be a target on my head & I would die. Your theory makes no sense Something_Smart. If my play is scummy & I'm actually a PR, you're saying I should out myself right away & get night killed the following night instead of getting more information for town. That is a pretty scummy train of thought that borderlines you wishing you had PR hunted a little harder. Sorry friend, no can do for you.

I never said that. Honestly, I think that, if you actually are a watcher, you claimed at the right time. But it was for the wrong reason. For town PRs, particularly ones with valuable information, the fear of being nightkilled should always be in the back of your mind, if not the front. So by showing that it's not there at all (until I fed it to you, at which point you said, "what are you talking about of course I was thinking about that", when you provably weren't), you're making it seriously hard to believe you're actually a town PR.

Overall, I am firmly of the opinion that Fragger is scum fakeclaiming to get a lynch on iraonavp (on whom he has pushed a mislynch for multiple days now) before he is inevitable lynched. I am very confident on this read and I don't think the utility we get from the possibility that he is actually a watcher is worth lynching ira first.
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Post Post #2036 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 9:33 am

Post by Drixx »

Something_Smart - Please read the post before yours. Seriously. You basically just scum claimed.
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Post Post #2037 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 9:36 am

Post by Something_Smart »

No, I didn't. Just because Fragger softed a PR, does that make him town?
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Post Post #2038 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 10:12 am

Post by Drixx »

In post 2037, Something_Smart wrote:No, I didn't. Just because Fragger softed a PR, does that make him town?


It certainly tips the scales in that direction. And it wasn't a "soft" either. You're sitting here arguing that Fragger should have been worried about being night killed ... but why would a town Fragger worry about that when it looked like he would be a top wagon contender day after day? That would be like me being worried about being night killed right now. You're attacking him on absurd grounds when the evidence we have points to him telling the truth.

Now ... who wants town power roles to get mislynched instead of scum having to use a night kill on them?

You see why your nonsensical push to get people not to believe Fragger looks scummy yet?
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Post Post #2039 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 10:16 am

Post by Slandaar »

In post 2037, Something_Smart wrote:No, I didn't. Just because Fragger softed a PR, does that make him town?

The thing is that whole sequence is just a mess. He panicked a bit as he had to make sure he wasn't being vigged with the result he has. All makes complete sense.
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Post Post #2040 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 10:17 am

Post by KuroiXHF »

In post 1983, Slandaar wrote:
In post 1964, KuroiXHF wrote:
Anything that is not pro-town is inherently pro-scum. if you are coasting through, you are making it easier to go unnoticed in the day so you can kill in the night. This might just be scum-theory that we disagree on, but I have legitimate reason to scum-read people like Snarky, and Guy.

Things can't be neutral?

No.

Coasting is weak but sounds good in theory. Why, after Reubus was lynched for not doing much or caring, would scum coast on D2?

So their play style can do a 180 mid-game? Does that sound town-like to you?

- Catching up on the Iraonavp vs Fraggernaut issue, Fraggernaut's role is more important than Iraonavp and I can't possibly see how this can be anything but conflicting and even if Iraonavp is telling us the truth, I'd rather risk Ira's life first. With that said,

VOTE: Iraonavp
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Post Post #2041 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 10:25 am

Post by Something_Smart »

@Drixx:
Why are you assuming Fragger is town?
I'm pushing to get people not to believe Fragger because I don't believe Fragger. His play literally makes perfect sense under the assumption that he is scum, so the claim hasn't changed my read.
That said, I'm still not sure that I want to lynch Fragger today. But if we do lynch iraonavp it will be because we think we can risk a mislynch on the possibility that Fragger is telling the truth.
@Slandaar: you don't think scum would panic if they thought they would be vigged?
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Post Post #2042 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 10:29 am

Post by DrippingGoofball »

What is it with the idiotic Irannavp votes????

He's really towning it up

I bet all of Yume's buddies are on his wagon already.
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Post Post #2043 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 11:42 am

Post by Killthestory »

In post 2042, DrippingGoofball wrote:What is it with the idiotic Irannavp votes????

He's really towning it up

I bet all of Yume's buddies are on his wagon already.
you honestly need to stop for a moment, and just take your pride out of the equation, and then give me a reasonable reason as to why the Irao votes suck
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Post Post #2044 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 1:28 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 2042, DrippingGoofball wrote:What is it with the idiotic Irannavp votes????

He's really towning it up

I bet all of Yume's buddies are on his wagon already.
What do you think of Iroan vs Fragger?
Which is scum?
Which is worth risking in today's lynch?

Are you a lyncher with Yume as a target?
You are, aren't you..
(Or are they non-normal?)
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Post Post #2045 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 2:36 pm

Post by Axl_Rose »

VC 3.5
V
o
t
e
C
o
u
n
t
3
.
6

With 16 Alive, it's 9 to Lynch!



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Post Post #2046 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 2:36 pm

Post by Axl_Rose »

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Post Post #2047 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 3:05 pm

Post by RachMarie »

hey all

Reading up now
BRAND NEW Get to know me http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=69243
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Post Post #2048 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 3:30 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 2047, RachMarie wrote:hey all

Reading up now
Greetings!
I almost forgot this slot existed!!!
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Post Post #2049 (ISO) » Mon May 09, 2016 3:54 pm

Post by KuroiXHF »

In post 2047, RachMarie wrote:hey all

Reading up now
See you when you finish catching up next week.

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