Open 638: Friends and Enemies! (And Enemies!) - GAME OVER!

[Randomnamechange]

First
VOTE: killthestory

[Randomnamechange]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kasumeat
gonna trust their read

[Randomnamechange]

Caught scum is caught.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: randomidget

[Randomnamechange]

Ranger's reads are godlike. His accuracy is insane.

[Randomnamechange]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kill the story
Always down for this lynch.

Ranger's reads are godlike. His accuracy is insane.

Well, then, wanna lynch one of them?

VOTE: Killthestory.

All Ranger has right now is a very uninformed gut. How can you have anything more than very weak reads during RVS?

That said, the RVS is essentially meaningless without any real stakes. (Scum can just dice vote and pass it off as real). Thus, purely to see how he (as well as others) react to this and to up the pressure, VOTE: Randomidget.

It's ranger. No idea how he does it, but he can.
If you want to vote me fine, or you could vote for someone you think is scummy to leave RVS

Ranger, I don't think I'm seeing what you're seeing in Kts, can you explain please?

Random, what do you think of the wagon on you? Would you have said the same thing about Ranger's reads if you were at the bottom of the list?

Don't really care, its RVS, I don't do much this early on.
Yeah, his reads are genuinely very good, but nowhere near 100% accurate this early.

[Randomnamechange]

Top class play coming from kts, not calling L-1 on page 2. Confident in the vote now.
Also kts, I was the first person to vote you. I'm not jumping on the wagon, I'm returning to it.

[Randomnamechange]

Ah OK that makes sense. I can see why the reads on KTS and Karnos.

I'll happily change my vote to KTS if that helps. I just don't want to be the jerk that pushes a lynch onto a nice townie on day 1, and I am not yet confident that KTS is scum.

Do you believe anyone on the Kts-wagon legit scumreads him?

holy shit you jumped on that wagon S O H A R D

Yeah I'm not too comfortable with how he did that either.

@Karnos, I'm thinking accident. I thought BT put Random at L-1 at first and then thought Kts hammered lol. Forgot about the self-vote as well, there was not much wrong with it (besides voting yourself obv) for the gamestate at the time.

Random, why did you vote Kts in the first place?

I don't have any thoughts about Random's wagon that are worth sharing. I feel like it's a regular RVS-wagon where the votes don't tell me much now but maybe will later.


BTD6 it would be helpful if you got an avatar.

Kts is annoying and pretentious.

Why do i get the feeling this is SvW

So you can keep your options open to vote whichever wagon you want without repercussions?

[Randomnamechange]

Nah, use it to vote kts

[Randomnamechange]

Fair enough

[Randomnamechange]

{randomidget}
{Creature, Kop}
{Javajoe}
{Charloux, karnos}
{Killthestory}
{BTD6, Masquerade, Kasumeat}
Three.

Agree with you mostly here, not sure where the btd6 scumread is coming from here. Haven't noticed the townreads particularly, so I'll ISO thrm, but javajoe is looking town so far.

[Randomnamechange]

@Random: Does pretentious and annoying mean Kts is scum then? Because in my experience he's like that as town and I haven't seen him as scum yet. For me Kts is still a nulltownread, I like how he's pushing to get us out of RVS but I've seen scum do that too.

@Ranger: Mind explaining how Random came to be a top townread for you? Because I don't see it. I don't think Random is scum rn and his wagon is not one I want to pursue because I know Random a little bit and a long time ago he was misslynched because he had responded scummy to his RVS-wagon. I think you may have Random as toptown because of the wagon, and in singleball I'd agree. But this is 12 players with 4 scum so that makes the odds of a RVS-wagon on scum quite a bit higher. I mean, in a game with 13p and 3 scum on 1 team it will be a lot harder to get such a wagon going on scum.

KTS is one of the players I have seen before. If he wasn't, I would absolutely be scum reading him, but I know from the prior game that his town play just likes a bit scummy. That doesn't actually rule out him being scum, though, and right now I have no other real leads. I would probably be voting him if he wasn't already shouldering several votes.

Kts has 2 votes, I'd understand being careful for a derphammer but the wagon isn't even close to hammer. Seems like you're being overly careful. What exactly is the 'lead' you have on Kts? What do you think is scummy about his play so far that warrants a maybe-vote?

No. The OMGUS and general conduct made him scummy. The RVS vote was because he was annoying and pretentious.

[Randomnamechange]

Yeah, that's a poor vote kop. His push on Joe would be a better reason

[Randomnamechange]

Masq's defense of Kop was a bit off.

[Randomnamechange]

But that isn't true. Ranger said it was an accident
PEdit: If you wouldn't mind explaining the BTD6 readm that would be great thanks

[Randomnamechange]

Yeah, that's a poor vote kop. His push on Joe would be a better reason

Masq's defense of Kop was a bit off.

I liked Random entrance, but both of these posts put me off.

Seem like generic statements to doubcast without actually exposing yourself. What did you not like about Masq defense?

The fact they defended them. It would be better to let them answer for themselves.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: kasumeat
L-2
Really not liking the rolefish. Ozymandias' defense is a bit bleh, but not too alignment indicative.

Mod Notes:
- <3

<3

[Randomnamechange]

The fact they defended them. It would be better to let them answer for themselves.

dias' defense is a bit bleh, but not too alignment indicative.

Uh...

The first was on masq's defense of kop which seemed to be jumping the gun to try and defend them on one point after a small amount of suspicion. The situation with Oz and kas is different.

[Randomnamechange]

The first was on masq's defense of kop which seemed to be jumping the gun to try and defend them on one point after a small amount of suspicion. The situation with Oz and kas is different.

I'd like to see how; they both seemed fairly similar to me. (The only difference being, I townread Kop and think Masquerade was white knighting, whereas I think both Kasumeat and Ozymandias are scum.)

Kop was only being questioned on one thing with no votes on him, there is a large possibility of kasumeat being lynched.
UNVOTE:
I'm not convinced this isn't mislynch bait.

Mod Notes:
- <3

<3 to randomidget who returned the love. He gets bolded hearts because he's special.

awwww <3

[Randomnamechange]

random be jumping wagons H A R D

ranger and kasu are obvtown, masq townlean. that said, fucking unvote kasu and ranger, fuck off. i dont want to try to this game holy shit, obvtowning is too much work

I have voted two people since RVS, one of whom was largely to move the game forward, and the other I expressed suspicion of several pages earlier. Please tell me where I jumped wagons "H A R D"

[Randomnamechange]

The first was on masq's defense of kop which seemed to be jumping the gun to try and defend them on one point after a small amount of suspicion. The situation with Oz and kas is different.

I'd like to see how; they both seemed fairly similar to me. (The only difference being, I townread Kop and think Masquerade was white knighting, whereas I think both Kasumeat and Ozymandias are scum.)

Kop was only being questioned on one thing with no votes on him, there is a large possibility of kasumeat being lynched.
UNVOTE:
I'm not convinced this isn't mislynch bait.

Mod Notes:
- <3

<3 to randomidget who returned the love. He gets bolded hearts because he's special.

awwww <3

Buddying with the mod, scum confirmed. Clearly has privileges.

What made you change your mind from your first vote on Kasu to now?

Some of his posts have definitely been scummy, so I voted him. But i'm starting to get a gut feeling this is a mislynch from his most recent posts.

[Randomnamechange]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: masquerade

[Randomnamechange]

'I'm very good at this game'
'i don't know what alingment I am'
Kts4scummies 2016

[Randomnamechange]

Kts, you are one of the worst players I have ever come across. Stop acting like you are brilliant because you really aren't.

[Randomnamechange]

To whoever asked me why I unvoted Karnos and voted ranger, it was because he had not been online since I replaced in and I did not want to leave my vote there until he came online. I still don't really like his posts, even though I only skimmed the last three pages.

VOTE: BTD6_maker

I am still waiting for you to explain the Kasu read step by step, because your stance on him was awkward, to say the least.

And your reads list was questionable, to say the least.

I will re read the last pages better when I have the time.

In what way is my reads list questionable? Again, it differs from yours. I have a different perspective. I could certainly have been scumreading you or the Masons but at that stage there was no indication of who was and was not Mason. Having inaccurate early reads does not imply that anyone is scum.

Also, in Newbie 1700 RadiantCowbells refused to unvote himself in Day 2. That is my only past MS.net experience so that is why I was using it. Of course, I may be wrong as I only have one sample.

That was a different situation, when someone self votes and it's not an hammer, you have to look only at one thing: is that a frustated townie or scum faking frustation? I don't think Kasu unvoting himself is indicative.

But if that's your experience here, I guess it could make sense.

Regarding your read list, I don't like that you had Ranger as null, I think she has done enough to warrant a read.

Do you have me as scum because you think I am Kasu's scumbuddy or are there other reasons?

I am also interested to hear why you have Random as Town.

I'm interested to hear why you think I'm scum.

[Randomnamechange]

I'm interested to hear why you think I'm scum.

Sure.

Top class play coming from kts, not calling L-1 on page 2. Confident in the vote now.
Also kts, I was the first person to vote you. I'm not jumping on the wagon, I'm returning to it.

This post came after Kill accused you of OMGUSing ( is that a term? ). While I don't really put much stock in OMGUS as a reliable scum tell, your first vote on Kill was in the very first post of the game, so clearly not serious, which makes your answer to Kill strange. How does the fact that you voted Kill in the first post of the game means that you are not "jumping on the wagon"?

Yeah, that's a poor vote kop. His push on Joe would be a better reason

Masq's defense of Kop was a bit off.

Both of these posts gave me the impression of someone distancing himself from the conflict, they are pretty general statements, who seem to doubtcast without actually exposing themselves.

I know you elaborated on them, once me and ranger ( I think ) asked, but that was my first impression of them.

Your entrance was really good, as I said, so there is that, but the rest of your play has been meh.

Also, you voted a guy who said he was going to be V/LA until Monday morning, like five posts after he said it. I really don't think that's a good vote.

You are the less comfortable of my scumreads, as I already said somewhere, which is why I was interested in BTD's read on you.

1. The thing about kts was a joke
2. I wasn't distancing myself. I was talking about it. Literally the opposite.
It didn't cross my mind about masquerade being on V/LA
UNVOTE:
VOTE: charloux

[Randomnamechange]

4. Fakeclaiming scum (possibly pretending to be 2 or 3)

Without confirmation, I'm not convinced. If he is a Mason, why lie about the others? Surely it would suffice to say "I am a Mason" without specifically naming two non-Masons. In fact, if he does this, chances are 13/18 that he has called a scum a Mason.

We should probably wagon KTS. If he really is a Mason, surely Ranger and Kop will support him at L-1. Also, if he is scum, consider the possibility that neither Ranger nor Kop are his partner.

This is an awful idea. Masons will flip soonish and we can confirm it. No need to do it yet especially as it won't wipe out a scumteam.

[Randomnamechange]

Yeah, that was poor from Joe. Probably put them at null-scum for now.

[Randomnamechange]

Nice doubtcasting there Charloux.

[Randomnamechange]

Nice doubtcasting there Charloux.

Doubtcasting? Who and where?

Saying me changing my vote repeatedly makes my opinion less valid.

[Randomnamechange]

I've voted 4 people since RVS. It is possible to have had that many scumreads.

[Randomnamechange]

People should stop voting kts. Without a CC he isn't being lynched today.

[Randomnamechange]

BTD6 you are being sooooo scummy right now.
Kop, any other comments on the game?

[Randomnamechange]

BTD6 you are being sooooo scummy right now.
Kop, any other comments on the game?

I'm not sure how that's scummy. I am not trying to force a rolefish. What I am saying is that if we establish that no one should counterclaim then anyone could have claimed without it meaning anything. KTS's claim means nothing now if Town are just going to accept it as is.

We don't need to know yet, town don't need the info so we might as well not give it to scum.

[Randomnamechange]

We aren't saying not to CC kts. We are saying we don't need to today. It will probably be revealed through flips.

[Randomnamechange]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: joe

BTD, I like drinking as well, but don't play while completely wasted

Joe lynch is still better than a BTD lynch. I think there is a chance BTD is just a VI.

This pretty much summed up my thoughts. Voting btd there was what I was expecting scum to do.

[Randomnamechange]

Kop you really need to do something other than attacking btd6 here.

[Randomnamechange]

Btd is so scummy....

I'm not convinced BTD6 is stupid enough as scum to not stop digging though.

[Randomnamechange]

Sorry for my absense, my company is moving from one office to another and as part of the IT team I have been heavily involved in moving servers and workstations.

Anyway, I think BTD makes a lot of good points. I fear I might be seen as "buddying" with him, but I don't really care- his logic is sound and it makes sense to me. I fear that some town players are being manipulated by scum acting as masons, and the end result is a very anti-town strategy.

KTS is either a mason or he isn't. His claims about ranger & kop are either true or they are not. Personally, I find it a bit odd that kop and ranger both refuse to vouch for KTS but also refuse to contradict his claim. I have been thinking about this for awhile: if I was a mason with KTS, outed by him, is there any reason why I would hold out from verifying his claim? Ultimately, the answer is a resounding NO. Any scum in the game ALREADY has them at the top of their kill-list (unless they are scum themselves, of course), so it's not like vouching for KTS will put them in any new danger. By refusing to vouch for KTS, I think we have a tacit admittance that he is lying.

That is why I haven't changed my vote, and I will continue to not change it until things change.

Because if they do confirm they've fucking outed the mason team. This shit really isn't hard to understand.

[Randomnamechange]

You're wrong. Not going to have this argument.

[Randomnamechange]

I beg to differ. If Joe is scum then BTD is the godfather!
That said i don't think Joe is scum, but BTD is a good choice. I'd vote for him but i promised that idiot Random i wouldn't...

Why am I an idiot? I'm one of the few players in the game using commonsense.

If mason get counterclaimed, we lynch the one we find scummier. If they are a mason, we confirm who a mafia is. Good trade. If we lynch correctly, mafia have to nightkill the other one.

[Randomnamechange]

And why do you think Joe is Town?

More than town, i am nullreading him atm. I don't treat my nullreads as scum slot, but am willing to vote for them if needed.

Why am I an idiot? I'm one of the few players in the game using commonsense.

When i say idiot, i don't mean your intelligence; I don't like you so i call you an idiot. No offense.

Why don't you like me?

[Randomnamechange]

I know it isn't NAI, but if I've caused you to dislike me for some reason I would like to know so i can rectify my behaviour in the future.

[Randomnamechange]

I think it's a bit harsh to dislike me because of that.

[Randomnamechange]

Why am I a scumlean?

[Randomnamechange]

Why am I a scumlean?

@charloux

[Randomnamechange]

Well not so sure about masquerade, but i can bet btd is a mason, hence his odd aggresiveness towards kts. But i think kts is just a vt putting up a gambit.

Don't give heavily scumread players a way out
Calling it now, scumteams are btd6 and charloux, and Joe + ?

[Randomnamechange]

I'm up for lynching Joe, btd or charloux

[Randomnamechange]

Scumteam 1 - BTD6_maker, Charloux
Scumteam 2 - Javajoe24, _______

Thoughts on Joe's teammate?

You or Ozymandias

[Randomnamechange]

Well, not until they've betrayed you. Unless they were an enemy in disguise.

[Randomnamechange]

VOTE: javajoe24

Because I think he is acting scummy enough to be potential scum, unlike BTD who I think made some good points and is just being targeted because he is new and his posting style is a bit off compared to the usual.

I'd like to state for the record I I'd prefer to pressure KTS and get some real answers, but in the absence of any interest from the rest of town I'll reluctantly vote on joe.

BTD6 has definitely been scummy in some ways, but I agree that he has made some redeeming points whilst Joe hasn't.

[Randomnamechange]

@Masquerade: Can you repeat your questoons i haven't answered yet? Sorry for acting like a spoiled brat.

Dw man, shit happens

[Randomnamechange]

Sorry guys, been a rough weekend. Wife left me and mafia was the last thing on my mind. Will catch up now

Sorry to hear that

[Randomnamechange]

Town Mason - Killthestory
Town Mason - Ranger
Town Mason - Kop
Vanilla Town - Creature
Vanilla Town - Kasumeat
Vanilla Town - karnos
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Scumteam 1 - BTD6_Maker
Scumteam 1 - Ozymandias
Scumteam 2 - Javajoe26
Scumteam 2

Undecided(in order from townier to scummier): Masquerade, randomidget, Charloux

I agree with this, but but you then karnos where my name is.

[Randomnamechange]

Town Mason - Killthestory
Town Mason - Ranger
Town Mason - Kop
Vanilla Town - Creature
Vanilla Town - Kasumeat
Vanilla Town - karnos
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Scumteam 1 - BTD6_Maker
Scumteam 1 - Ozymandias
Scumteam 2 - Javajoe26
Scumteam 2

Undecided(in order from townier to scummier): Masquerade, randomidget, Charloux

I agree with this, but but you then karnos where my name is.

Oh yeah should be charloux rather than Ozy and Ozy town.

[Randomnamechange]

You think Charloux is more likely to be scum than Karnos random?

Yeah

[Randomnamechange]

I'm going to do some wagon analysis after flips.

[Randomnamechange]

Fair enough. I still think we should lynch Joe tomorrow.

[Randomnamechange]

Nope. Town have almost won a similar set up with every mafia member left alive and one townie. I was in one of the mafias and was forced to settle for a draw with the other team.

[Randomnamechange]

Yeah, guessed I was going down last night. WP, I believe in you guys.

[Randomnamechange]

GG