Mini 1794: Gunslingers Ahoy! {Game Over}

[Chumba]

/time travel pause

Can someone who has been diligently reading the thread tell me if there is an exorbitant amount of misrepresentation and false accusations flying around between pages 8-26 so that I can ignore the most trivial ones and assume that someone logical (such as Accountant or TBG) has dismissed them already?

Tbg is one of the ones tossing false accusations around so you can't rely on him. Accountant also becomes very suspect so you should probably read

[ɀefiend]

@BlackStar

@BlackStar

That wasn't really a defense. I just thought it was silly that

we were rushing towards a lynch

. I also think it's scummy that you're trying to force an association between me and him before he even gets lynched

Several of your posts are giving me bad vibes.

When do you think it's appropriate to start trying to lynch someone?

There IS an association between you and MURDERCAT now. The nature of that association remains to be seen. Also, I believe that was the first time you actually called someone's actions as scummy. Yet, you aren't pushing or pursuing discourse with Dunnstral for his actions.

All you've said is that he gives you a bad feeling, and then outta nowhere, your vote on MURDERCAT is now serious.

Your progression in this game is all over the place. Stop "observing" and start scum-hunting, please.

That's not an association. Any normal person would think it's weird that somebody was at L-2 on like the 3rd page. This game is pretty bad so far. You're all death tunneling a player who clearly seems inexperienced and acting like his mistakes can only be seen as the actions of scum.

OK we'll let the town decide what the definition of "association" is, then.

I think Dunnstral is scum, so murdercat is probably town.
You said that I didn't "pursue discourse with Dunnstral". I wasn't even here so of course I didn't. Dunnstral is trying to tie me to murdercat just because I questioned why everyone was ready to lynch him so quickly. That's ridiculously weak and it's even worse that he's trying to do this before we even get a flip. Then he said my individual actions were scummy but doesn't give any examples of things I've said that he thinks are scummy. He's earned my vote

VOTE: dunnstral

Well at least you've provided a reason for your vote. However I probably need to keep reading to see if that reason is substantiated or not.

[TehBrawlGuy]

@Chumba: While your contributions of "Welcome RachMarie" and Jackie Chan memes are top-notch, I would like to hear your opinions on Derek, Chilledtea, and Transcend.

[ɀefiend]

Chumba and TBG, thanks for the info on what to look out for. /unpause

[Chumba]

@Chumba: While your contributions of "Welcome RachMarie" and Jackie Chan memes are top-notch, I would like to hear your opinions on Derek, Chilledtea, and Transcend.

I already responded to you so why did you quote your question again?

[TehBrawlGuy]

I actually entirely missed that post.
I'd still like a little bit of detail on why they're not in your lynch pool, though.

[ɀefiend]

@BlackStar, page 10

Blackstar, I noticed that despite quoting his initial argument against efiend, you haven't really given your thoughts on him. So thoughts?

Seems like another opportunist looking for validation from the town

You are going to have to bring more to the table than that if you want to cast shade on my play. I'm interested, though, so I can have a reference point.

[Killthestory]

Votecount

Transcend

(2/7)

: Derek12, TehBrawlGuy
chilledtea

(2/7):

I Am Innocent, Dunnstral
Blackstar (1/7): Accountant
MURDERCAT (1/7): zefiend
NightmareGaunt (1/7): ConvergentConclusion
TehBrawlGuy (1/7): Chumba
Accountant (1/7): Transcend
Currently not voting (4): MURDERCAT, chilledtea, NightmareGaunt, Blackstar

[Chumba]

I actually entirely missed that post.
I'd still like a little bit of detail on why they're not in your lynch pool, though.

2 are completely null and one is a marginal town lean. Basically they haven't said or done anything nearly as bad as you, accountant, and murder

[Accountant]

Transcend is not in my lynch pool. Chilledtea is in my lynchpool. BlackStar has to die.

[ɀefiend]

@TehBrawlGuy, page 11

@TehBrawlGuy

...
I don't agree with the catwagon at all.

I agree with his assessment that voting more in RVS is typically a play done by Scum

who intend to look active and helpful, and voting as such is a great way to break RVS. Hell, you could argue it did. ...

When you and MURDERCAT make claims about RVS theory like this, it all translates to hogwash to me. Unless you or he can provide quantifiable proof of your hypothesis, the reasoning stands very much invalid. Breaking RVS does not serve as justification for voting with poor reasoning.

You claim that you like the fact that Accountant pushed MURDERCAT to get a wagon going. So why did you detract from the wagon's momentum by placing your vote elsewhere?

This is mafia. Quantifiable proof usually does not exist, and asking for it is fallacious. I qualitatively have noticed the same thing that mcat has, so it makes sense to me, and I don't really agree with him taking heat for it.

Qualitative experiences during RVS being used to argue that a certain alignment does something more than the other alignment during RVS is

literally

confirmation bias. As an aside, there actually

are

some quantifiable statistics about things regarding RVS, such as "are scum more likely to RVS their buddies than someone else?" and "is an RVS flashwagon more likely to be on town than mafia?" If I really wanted to make a point about one of these things during RVS I would go dig up these stats. Seeing as we're long past RVS and this argument we're having is probably not worth it and/or distracting from the game, I will just drop it.

Mcat's vote was not with poor reasoning. It is only marginally better than random voting, true, but on Page 2, it's the best we had. Casting the first serious vote in the game is a ProTown action and I view it favorably.

I still think it was poor reasoning. Shiny junk is still junk. And that action is NAI for me, so we will just have to disagree on that point.

Because I see the wagon as Town v. Town. I like that Accountant made a strong wagon. It generated a lot of content and helped start the day, but even though I like his methods, I disagree with his conclusion that mcat is Scum. Hence, my best play is to generate an opposing wagon on someone who I

do

think is Scum.

This makes logical sense, at least. Thank you for answering.

[Dunnstral]

Transcend is not in my lynch pool. Chilledtea is in my lynchpool. BlackStar has to die.

vote chilledtea?

[Accountant]

Transcend is not in my lynch pool. Chilledtea is in my lynchpool. BlackStar has to die.

vote chilledtea?

I wouldn't mind, but I really want to get BlackStar. I'm not letting him squirm his way out of a lynch by self voting to look like a gamethrowing townie.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Qualitative experiences during RVS being used to argue that a certain alignment does something more than the other alignment during RVS is

literally

confirmation bias. As an aside, there actually

are

some quantifiable statistics about things regarding RVS, such as "are scum more likely to RVS their buddies than someone else?" and "is an RVS flashwagon more likely to be on town than mafia?" If I really wanted to make a point about one of these things during RVS I would go dig up these stats. Seeing as we're long past RVS and this argument we're having is probably not worth it and/or distracting from the game, I will just drop it.

I am interested in talking about RVS theory, though. I agree dropping it now is the most sensible thing, but I would like to pick it up in the post-game if you don't mind.

[ɀefiend]

Qualitative experiences during RVS being used to argue that a certain alignment does something more than the other alignment during RVS is

literally

confirmation bias. As an aside, there actually

are

some quantifiable statistics about things regarding RVS, such as "are scum more likely to RVS their buddies than someone else?" and "is an RVS flashwagon more likely to be on town than mafia?" If I really wanted to make a point about one of these things during RVS I would go dig up these stats. Seeing as we're long past RVS and this argument we're having is probably not worth it and/or distracting from the game, I will just drop it.

I am interested in talking about RVS theory, though. I agree dropping it now is the most sensible thing, but I would like to pick it up in the post-game if you don't mind.

Yeah I feel the same way.

I'm only on pg.13 btw

Will say that I don't like either chilledtea's or Transcend's entrance.

[Chumba]

I'm not seeing why you think transcend is a good vote as I still have no read on them, I do want to move away from BlackStar for now though

VOTE: chilledtea until I'm convinced otherwise

UNVOTE:

Why?

Why is chilled scum? Reasons please

[Dunnstral]

Obviously with 4 posts it's not a very strong read, just a feeling right now

[ɀefiend]

As of Page 15, my thoughts on the whole Chumba vs. TBG:

UNVOTE: I'll decide where I want to put this again tomorrow, meanwhile I believe Murdercat is at L-3

I know there's a lot of people who haven't even gotten to read the thread and we're ~250 posts in

I find your unvote weird given black isn't voting you anymore.

I also don't like how you referenced how close murder is to a lynch

. Just comes of as like you are about to make an opportunistic jump back to murder

This feels nitpicky. Not to mention it's followed by a pretty strong assumption.

The fact you have played on this site since 2011 and said the above really makes me doubt you are town. I can't imagine an experienced Mafia player would ever believe that

This ethos appeal and sweeping generalization of experienced mafia players is bad.

I feel he's been mostly prompted into it as a result of how crazy aggressive Accountant has been and how many other people have been on him. The more aggressive people are being towards you, the more okay responding defensively is. Mcat's defensiveness is proportional to the aggression against him, BlackStar's is not. I also feel that he's had a less defensive tone than BlackStar in general, although that's obviously not as substantial.

Sorry that doesn't work for me. I mean lets ignore you are wrong about defensiveness. If you actually believe what you said you would have explained it better at the time.

Going back now and saying his defensiveness was justified doesnt gel with your belief of defensive behavior.

I also feel like this is nitpicky. Beliefs about defensiveness are not set in stone. They change based on context, which is clearly different between MCAT's defensiveness and BlackStar's.

...Obviously I wasn't and wasting any more time is distracting me from finding his partners.

...

Why would anyone consider the game solved when we don't even have a strong lead on 1 scum yet let alone the entire scum team....

Your cognitive dissonance is showing.

TBG's #370 is a great post. It provides analysis about his scum-read's thought process and actions, and makes logical sense. Also, what he describes about Chumba is true. This

strongly

indicates a townie-like progression to me.

[ɀefiend]

@Someone not Chumba or TBG

, does it get better or worse for Chumba? Because as of rereading up to pg. 15, I am content with voting her.

[ɀefiend]

I think this is one of the places where we fundamentally differ. You view posting questions towards everyone as helpful and I don't value it as much on its own.

And this is where now I'm convinced you have to be scum. Asking questions is the single best way to know what people are thinking. It lets you directly interact with people which helps you know read them better and forces them to provide you a direct response. Scum's goal is to 1. Lie low and 2. Avoid giving concrete responses to things.

If you se people avoiding questions or giving vague responses that's a red flag. A great example would be the questions I asked accountant. I felt his responses were kind of dodgy which is why my read on him changed.

I don't like this post, at all.

How does TBG's view on questioning differing from your view convince you that he's scum?? You don't explain this at all. You just try to justify what TBG called you out on: rapid-fire questioning. Also, scum's goal is to appear town (but I'm sure you'll theory-dismiss me, too). TBG is correct in that asking tons of questions allows scum to appear busy without actually making any advances in solving the game.

[Dunnstral]

When I was reading through I saw it all as town vs town and chumba was just rattled that she got pushed on

[ɀefiend]

Do you still feel that way after reading the points I raised in 667?

[Dunnstral]

Yes actually, my main reasoning being that I'm not seeing scum motive behind chumba's posts, I do however disagree with them and I think TBG is town, but I'm thinking chumba is town too.

[Dunnstral]

I voted chilledtea because this is what I'm kind of feeling right now until I get convinced otherwise and I assumed other people would hop on the wagon as they've also kind of threw chilled in the scum pile, but I noticed almost slight resistance to putting chilledtea on the wagon, not from anyone in particular just in general

[chilledtea]

Guys, my internet had some issues. I haven't read anything from page 12 so I will need time to catch up again.