Open 638: Friends and Enemies! (And Enemies!) - GAME OVER!

[Kasumeat]

So then both claimers get lynched and you've traded a scum for a mason which is a bad trade for the scum.

In a normal game, sure. In this game, one scum faction comes out clearly ahead in such an exchange.

Maybe it's still overall good for town, but it's even better for town if the 3 masons can drive a lynch into KTS without directly coming out, isn't it?

Whatever, just forget I brought it up. I think most likely KTS is indeed what he says he is.
-----------------------------

Back to scum hunting, I'm truly puzzled at the "kop is town" reads. Hiding so much is more often than not a scum tactic. And if kop does it every game, that certainly isn't indicative of him being town, it's just a null indication. So far ranger and KTS are the two pushing the idea that kop is obvious town...

Between the two, I trust ranger a bit less, especially given the recent discussion on KTS' role. Gotta put my vote where my mouth is-

VOTE: ranger

Obviously subject to change if anything comes out against KTS.

So I've thought about this some more, and contrary to what I said earlier, Karnos is looking somewhat scummy to me rather than VI. I neglected the obvious benefit to Karnos' post which is forcing all the masons to claim. There is still a strong element of "this is too scummy to be scum" which in my limited experience is actually true, so consider him a scum-lean for me.

EBWOP: That is to say, slight lean rather than strong read.

[Ranger]

Site down time really didn't change much. This is where I'm at right now:
{randomidget, Kop, Killthestory}
{Creature}
{Charloux, karnos, Javajoe}
{Masquerade, BTD6}
{Ozymandias, Kasumeat}

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: BTD
At this point I believe KTS' claim (about himself, at least) so I'm going with my strongest scumread that's on his list too.

[Creature]

Javajoe

Since you're here, can you now do what town does?

[Javajoe24]

Intentionally or not, you're playing exactly how a fakeclaiming scum would play in your spot

I am also new, this is my 3rd game, 2nd on this site.

So how do you know how a fakeclaiming scum plays?

Wow..... This game.... Wtf, why did the masons claim day 1??? Really guys, I think it has to be legit because by now a real mason would have countered. But I also agree that we shouldn't rush things because we have so much time left. Give everyone a chance to respond. Also, if this is a fake claim, please only one mason counter. I doubt it is a fake claim but just in case. I don't like karnos' latest post against kts. I understand you think it may be fake, but if it is we will know soon, no need to push the issue so hard right now. If it is true, bad luck for getting kop as a mason considering how inactive he is. For now I need to...

UNVOTE:

Hate this post.

VOTE: javajoe

I also wasn't much impressed by Karnos and charloux, but Karnos seems to really believe in his scumread on Kts which is something I'd sooner attribute to town than scum. Even if this is multiball.

Why do you hate this post?

[KuroiXHF]

Vote Count - Day One - VC#13

killthestory - 2 - BTD6_Maker, karnos
Creature - 0 -
Kop - 0 -
Masquerade- 0 -
Kasumeat - 2 - Kop, Ranger
Javajoe24 - 2 - Ozymandias, Masquerade
Ranger - 0 -
karnos - 2 - killthestory, Creature
BTD6_maker - 1 - Kasumeat
Ozymandias - 0 -
randomidget - 0 -
Charloux - 1 - randomidget

Not Voting: Charloux, Javajoe24

With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch!

"Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into friend." - Martin Luther King Jr.

(expired on 2016-05-31 11:13:00)

Mod Notes:
- <3

[Ozymandias]

Town:
Me

Probably Town:
Kasu
Kill

Town Lean:
Masq
Karnos
Charloux

Null:
Creature
Kop
Random

Scum Lean:
BTD

Probably Scum:
Java
Ranger

I am ignoring Mason claims, for now.

I need to re read Creature, I thought he was scum before the break, but I forgot why.

Random is the closest to being a Town lean, right now, of the nulls.

Kop is simply inactive.

Charloux read is mostly a tone and guts read.

Masq has not done anything particularly hard to fake as scum, but I mostly liked their contributions.

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: BTD
At this point I believe KTS' claim (about himself, at least) so I'm going with my strongest scumread that's on his list too.

Just because you believe KTS doesn't mean that his reads are right. Any given person almost certainly does not have exactly correct reads.
I personally think that KTS has somehow convinced most people that he is Town, even if he is fakeclaiming. He could easily be scum claiming a gambiting VT if he is counter claimed. It is also possible that he and Ranger are scumpartners and are relying on Kop's inactivity in the hope of not getting counterclaimed. Keep an open mind about KTS.

[Ozymandias]

Liking a Joe lynch right now, he seems more focused on himself than on actually scumhunting. And then, there is the whole deal with the post everyone is quoting.

A Ranger lynch would involve having him hardclaim, which is sub optimal, considering the situation.

[Ozymandias]

So they are banking on Kop not checking in two weeks? Doubtful.

[Ozymandias]

Liking a Joe lynch right now, he seems more focused on himself than on actually scumhunting. And then, there is the whole deal with the post everyone is quoting.

A Ranger lynch would involve having him hardclaim, which is sub optimal, considering the situation.

her*

Welp, I can't get it right.

[Charloux]

Nice doubtcasting there Charloux.

Doubtcasting? Who and where?

[Kasumeat]

VOTE: BTD
At this point I believe KTS' claim (about himself, at least) so I'm going with my strongest scumread that's on his list too.

Just because you believe KTS doesn't mean that his reads are right. Any given person almost certainly does not have exactly correct reads.
I personally think that KTS has somehow convinced most people that he is Town, even if he is fakeclaiming. He could easily be scum claiming a gambiting VT if he is counter claimed. It is also possible that he and Ranger are scumpartners and are relying on Kop's inactivity in the hope of not getting counterclaimed. Keep an open mind about KTS.

What you're saying is theoretically possible, but we should have a counterclaim emerge when somebody is L-1 if he's faking. The scum KTS/Ranger gamble is extremely unlikely given how bad a coutnerclaim would hurt both of them.

If he's telling the truth, and I do believe that's more likely, he's correct in that sheeping the masons is a pretty good idea unless we have a really strong read otherwise. Considering that 2 of them are currently voting for me, I don't have much choice other than to go with my strongest scumread that the masons might also consider lynching. I would personally rather lynch Masq than you, but they haven't indicated they'd consider that option.

[BTD6_maker]

VOTE: BTD
At this point I believe KTS' claim (about himself, at least) so I'm going with my strongest scumread that's on his list too.

Just because you believe KTS doesn't mean that his reads are right. Any given person almost certainly does not have exactly correct reads.
I personally think that KTS has somehow convinced most people that he is Town, even if he is fakeclaiming. He could easily be scum claiming a gambiting VT if he is counter claimed. It is also possible that he and Ranger are scumpartners and are relying on Kop's inactivity in the hope of not getting counterclaimed. Keep an open mind about KTS.

What you're saying is theoretically possible, but we should have a counterclaim emerge when somebody is L-1 if he's faking. The scum KTS/Ranger gamble is extremely unlikely given how bad a coutnerclaim would hurt both of them.

If he's telling the truth, and I do believe that's more likely, he's correct in that sheeping the masons is a pretty good idea unless we have a really strong read otherwise. Considering that 2 of them are currently voting for me, I don't have much choice other than to go with my strongest scumread that the masons might also consider lynching. I would personally rather lynch Masq than you, but they haven't indicated they'd consider that option.

If he is faking with Ranger then upon a counterclaim he will just claim gambiting VT and Ranger will keep quiet. (Ranger hasn't confirmed KTS so she won't be as badly affected and will seem VT).

Moderate town: Creature, Masquerade
Weak town: Karnos, Charloux, Randomidget
Weak scum: Ozymandias
Moderate scum: Kasumeat, Javajoe

VOTE: Javajoe
He is slightly more scummy than Kasumeat in my opinion.

[Randomnamechange]

Nice doubtcasting there Charloux.

Doubtcasting? Who and where?

Saying me changing my vote repeatedly makes my opinion less valid.

[Charloux]

I don't see it as doubtcasting. It's NAI in my opinion, but i can't take you seriously if you vote left and right like you are changing socks.

[Ozymandias]

You clearly change socks too often, Charloux.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with Random changing his votes often, I don't see why Town should abstain from using it.

[Charloux]

Yes i am a fanatic when it comes to cleaning and hygiene!
Like i said i don't take it as AI, but i won't be able to trust him if he changes his vote all the time. Heck if he sticks with me i will be happy.

[Randomnamechange]

I've voted 4 people since RVS. It is possible to have had that many scumreads.

[karnos]

So they are banking on Kop not checking in two weeks? Doubtful.

No, of course not:

we win if you sheep me and ranger so theres no need to waste time discussing about ourselves

KTS was hoping to push a lynch quickly, before kop happened to check back in. Fortunately cooler heads prevailed.

Would be nice to hear from kop still, but I'm glad we weren't foolish enough to blindly trust KTS and lynch immediately as he wanted.

[Ranger]

"Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into friend."

<3

[Masquerade]

Why do you hate this post?

It feels awkward. Like it was made by scum.

[Randomnamechange]

People should stop voting kts. Without a CC he isn't being lynched today.

[Charloux]

Never say never, we still have 12 days...

[Masquerade]

I am only lynching kts if he gets cced and I do not want any mason coming out Day 1 ergo I'm not voting kts today unless there is an idiot mason.