Mini 1794: Gunslingers Ahoy! {Game Over}

[BlackStar]

Btw mobile posting isn't a good excuse for lack of content. Every post I've made this game has been from a mobile device

Me too

[BlackStar]

@dunn its a town lean based on meta from playing games, and is not super strong, which is why I want to see more from him.

Can you explain this meta to everyone? Also, I'd like to know why people said meta was a bad defense when I used it but don't care at all when rachmarie used to explain her read

[Chumba]

Well I'm still waiting for RachMarie to explain the reads I'm asking about. I'd say whoever said meta defense was bad, you should take those people to task

[Chumba]

Shocker here but I really don't like how brawl makes a "case" on transcend and wants everyone to comment on it but the moment he replaces out he's willing to basically drop the issue and change his read and basically makes excuses for transcend's earlier actions. Yet another example of something that has no town motivation

[MURDERCAT]

Also has murdercat been flying under the radar or what's going on

My issue is that I think everyone who is posting a lot is probably town. Like, I think TBG v Chumba was TvT, I think you and accountant are probably T and the way Blackstar went off and self voted makes me think he is T (partly because garmr went off in a similar way in my last game and he was T). I honestly do see a case against chilled because he hasn't done anything this game when he was super townie in the other game I played with him, he's kind of wishy washy on me, and how chilled interacted with blackstar felt a little strange to me. But he's not caught up and that stuff is really weak, so I need more. Other than that, who has really done anything? Derek has asked a few random questions and then not really gone anywhere with them. I felt like zefiend's push against me wasn't fully genuine, but he's replacing out now. Not a lot of content there either really. Transcend has barely posting anything and is being replaced. IAI is in eternal catch up. RachMarie posted a super vague readlist and a couple random catch up notes. And ConvergentConclusion has an RVS vote.

So I'm having a hard time figuring out how to be productive because the only people posting a lot are probably or lean town for me.

[Chumba]

Why do you think we are all town v town? I never understand that. It's possible for scum and town to have a heated back and forth with each other.

You say you are having a hard time being productive, how about reading and responding to people's posts and give your own opinion like I did when I caught up. How about asking people questions. If you only want to go after the low posters, why not ask them questions or try and interact with them?

[Accountant]

Shocker here but I really don't like how brawl makes a "case" on transcend and wants everyone to comment on it but the moment he replaces out he's willing to basically drop the issue and change his read and basically makes excuses for transcend's earlier actions. Yet another example of something that has no town motivation

Chumba:
1) Remind me your read on Transcend again and why please. Apologies if you said before and I didn't see, long + bad day.

2) If you had a scumread on Transcend and he subbed out what would you do? Keep pushing while he's empty? Would you demand his replacement account for his actions?

[MURDERCAT]

I think it's TvT because I'm reading both of you as town.

[MURDERCAT]

And when I catch up its all town reads posting so I don't feel like there's anything particularly important to comment on.

And by the way, if anyone is scum in you vs TBG, I think it's you.

[Chumba]

Shocker here but I really don't like how brawl makes a "case" on transcend and wants everyone to comment on it but the moment he replaces out he's willing to basically drop the issue and change his read and basically makes excuses for transcend's earlier actions. Yet another example of something that has no town motivation

Chumba:
1) Remind me your read on Transcend again and why please. Apologies if you said before and I didn't see, long + bad day.

2) If you had a scumread on Transcend and he subbed out what would you do? Keep pushing while he's empty? Would you demand his replacement account for his actions?

1. I'm null on transcend. I found issues where he lied about something trivial and didn't really explain his read on somebody he was town reading when I asked for it but nothing really alignment indicative for me. Was kind of hoping he would post/do more.

2. Replacements don't change my reads. So if I was scum reading somebody and they replaced out the read would still be there. The new person would have to really do something amazing to get me to change my read. They don't have to defend their predecessors actions, because obviously they can't but they would have to make some really good points that I agree with to even consider changing my mind. I certainly wouldn't drop the read and make excuses for them

[Chumba]

I think it's TvT because I'm reading both of you as town.

Why? Why is brawl town for his actions? If you need a recap I posted them a couple pages back and actually asked people to explain where the town motivation in those actions were. Could you at least do that since nobody else seems to want to do it?

im about to just prod dodge the rest of the game if people are just going to ignore my posts

[MURDERCAT]

But TBG's case was potentially explained by the mobile posting and lack of access so I don't see what your issue is. TBG just said there was no point pushing it for now.

P Edit: Ok

[MURDERCAT]

Inb4 why are you defending TBG so hard.

Nobody finds it scummy that he ignored the person who more matched a person active lurking and instead falsely accused me of it when none of my posts match his own examples?

I think this whole thing is a bit silly. Active lurking or not, TBG was willing to drop it. I'll agree you weren't actively lurking, but I don't think that makes TBG scum. I think the issue was that (he thinks) you seemed noncommittal, I think active lurking was the wrong term.

Nobody finds it weird that when I point out him overlooking dunn's active lurking in the beginning he actually agreed with me yet doesn't push on Dunn?

See above. I think the real issue he had was you were being noncommittal. Dunn wasn't active but was clearly on one side. I know you think you were clearly on one side, but it's less obvious from your posts.

Nobody finds it weird that he accused me of not asking questions, not giving any reads, and just making observations, and saying he actually read my posts but if he had there's no way he could say those things because they were flat out not true?

See above. I don't think that's what he's saying.

There's no town motivation for any of these things. There is certainly scum motivation for it.

Eh.

Maybe he thought I looked like an easy target cause my l-2 vote on murder. Maybe he's scum with murder, maybe he's trying to WK murder. Who knows but saying untrue things over and over again is not town. If people town read them you really don't want to know what I'm thinking. I won't post it though cause I'm a nice girl but let's say it's not very nice thoughts at all.

Like this whole argument is that TBG thought you backed away from pushing after voting. Which is a little bit valid, at least compared to Accountant. But you were involved so I don't think that makes you scum, you just weren't as aggressive about pushing me.

[RachMarie]

@ chumba
I missed your questions will ISO you and find them.

@MC the only meta I stated was on IaI, there is not much there which is why I placed a town LEAN, based on meta. I still want to see more from him. I just do not have much else for his slot at this time to go on, I did not do a meta read on the rest since:

1. There is more here for most of the players in THIS game.
2. I prefer to do meta on players I have played with in other games, I find when you do meta on players you have never played with before, it is not as beneficial. Meta is not a tool I use lightly.

[BlackStar]

You didn't answer the question of what meta you're basing your read

[RachMarie]

Just woke up here let me have some coffee and I will dig through some of IaIs games and show you

[TehBrawlGuy]

I null-read it. It sounds like a lot of his one-liners and lack of content was due to his mobile posting, the /out is because his slot's taking heat for it, and he doesn't find it fair to the game to allow us to suspect it over legitimate availability issues. I'm actually legitimately reconsidering if I scum read the slot at all now.

Have you considerd the possibility of it being faked? That's very easy to fake and since scum replace out under pressure a lot his replacement here (and imo any replacement) should not be considered alignment indicative

If he was intentionally avoiding posting content when he was Scum, replaced out citing availability issues and claimed the lack of content was due to availability issues, would that not be strategic replacing out, and thus against the rules? That's a pretty serious allegation and I'm not about to accuse Transcend of that for no reason.

[RachMarie]

Most of the time replacing out is a null tell, folks. People DO have lives outside of mafia, after all. I have seen both scum and town replace out of games, and yes the site does not look at all kindly on strategic replace outs.

[Chumba]

I null-read it. It sounds like a lot of his one-liners and lack of content was due to his mobile posting, the /out is because his slot's taking heat for it, and he doesn't find it fair to the game to allow us to suspect it over legitimate availability issues. I'm actually legitimately reconsidering if I scum read the slot at all now.

Have you considerd the possibility of it being faked? That's very easy to fake and since scum replace out under pressure a lot his replacement here (and imo any replacement) should not be considered alignment indicative

If he was intentionally avoiding posting content when he was Scum, replaced out citing availability issues and claimed the lack of content was due to availability issues, would that not be strategic replacing out, and thus against the rules? That's a pretty serious allegation and I'm not about to accuse Transcend of that for no reason.

Believe it or not there's no actual rule about replacing out. Not one I've ever seen enforced.

[TehBrawlGuy]

The ban/restriction thread is loaded with ones for strategic replacing. Regardless of the rules/enforcement, I think it's pretty obviously unethical to do such a thing, so Transcend wouldn't do it.

[RachMarie]

What odly worded posts? Also I'm curious who these others are

And why are accountant and brawl town?

Found it.

The oddly worded posts is not a put down BTW, its just in reading some of your posts they seemed worded in a way that I had to reread them to parse them, so it stood out.

Which others in particular? I did try to read everyone in the game, though some slots are difficult due to little or no posting.

Both accountant and TBG have contributed a great deal to the game, their posts push for activity, state their reasoning for their votes and neither seem to be trying to blend in. Neither have shown major concern when thought of as scummy and instead focused on scum hunting and reads of the other players. Neither have backed down and try to be conciliatory when challenged by other players. There are a few players I would look at more skeptically if they did this so early in the game, like Nacho for example, who has been known to bus his partner on D1, but none of those players are in the game. I think they are town. I think you are letting a bias toward TBG skew your view of them. However I do not see that as scummy, I think you are town also.

Pedit hes replacing out, that is a null tell, lets see what his replacement has to say, there is more than enough to look at in the ones who HAVE posted regularly in the game.

[Chumba]

The ban/restriction thread is loaded with ones for strategic replacing. Regardless of the rules/enforcement, I think it's pretty obviously unethical to do such a thing, so Transcend wouldn't do it.

Interesting. I just searched the tread with the word replacement, replace, and strategic and couldn't find a single example. Maybe search is broken or it doesn't exsist. The only replacement punishment I ever remember seeing was a player who made a habit of replacing out as one alignment.

[BlackStar]

The ban/restriction thread is loaded with ones for strategic replacing. Regardless of the rules/enforcement, I think it's pretty obviously unethical to do such a thing, so Transcend wouldn't do it.

Interesting. I just searched the tread with the word replacement, replace, and strategic and couldn't find a single example. Maybe search is broken or it doesn't exsist. The only replacement punishment I ever remember seeing was a player who made a habit of replacing out as one alignment.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=66358

[TehBrawlGuy]

The ban/restriction thread is loaded with ones for strategic replacing. Regardless of the rules/enforcement, I think it's pretty obviously unethical to do such a thing, so Transcend wouldn't do it.

Interesting. I just searched the tread with the word replacement, replace, and strategic and couldn't find a single example. Maybe search is broken or it doesn't exsist. The only replacement punishment I ever remember seeing was a player who made a habit of replacing out as one alignment.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?k ... sf=msgonly

There's two at the top right there.

[Chumba]

Guess I should have used the word replacing also. My bad