Open 638: Friends and Enemies! (And Enemies!) - GAME OVER!

[BTD6_maker]

I am only lynching kts if he gets cced and I do not want any mason coming out Day 1 ergo I'm not voting kts today unless there is an idiot mason.

Again, no Mason needs to come out. If Kop (or Ranger) claims VT then we know that KTS was lying.

Here's a question that should settle the matter:
Ranger, are the Masons you, KTS, and Kop? (If you choose not to answer say why)

If you say yes, nothing much has been revealed as KTS had already outed the Masons.
If you say no, that proves nothing about you. You could still be either a VT or a Mason and so could Kop. No one is hardclaiming here.
If you do not want to answer, a reason would help (without giving away the answer)

[Masquerade]

And that makes the mason pool smaller. Nobody cc TODAY.

[Charloux]

Yes, i believe we should wait for the first round of NK's to pop up. We can deduce this mason thing with that.

[BTD6_maker]

And that makes the mason pool smaller. Nobody cc TODAY.

I don't see how Ranger's answer would make the Mason pool smaller. If she says no, KTS may or may not be a Mason, Ranger may or may not be a Mason, and Kop may or may not be a Mason. No one will be confirmed Mason or non-Mason.

[Masquerade]

Then what's the point of your question?

[BTD6_maker]

Purely to confirm whether KTS's claim is worth listening to. Everyone actively does not want him to be lynched, despite no one wanting to confirm his claim or counterclaim. We should probably play as if KTS had never claimed, which means at least considering the three as potential scum.

[Kop]

Purely to confirm whether KTS's claim is worth listening to. Everyone actively does not want him to be lynched, despite no one wanting to confirm his claim or counterclaim. We should probably play as if KTS had never claimed, which means at least considering the three as potential scum.

Why are you rolefishing? It answers questions in regards to the claim, but you are actively saying I don't want the masons to claim, but would like them to back KTS claim up. Which is it?

[BTD6_maker]

Purely to confirm whether KTS's claim is worth listening to. Everyone actively does not want him to be lynched, despite no one wanting to confirm his claim or counterclaim. We should probably play as if KTS had never claimed, which means at least considering the three as potential scum.

Why are you rolefishing? It answers questions in regards to the claim, but you are actively saying I don't want the masons to claim, but would like them to back KTS claim up. Which is it?

If Ranger (or you, you can answer as well) says yes, this has just confirmed what KTS has outed. If Ranger says no, no one's role has been revealed.

Of course, Ranger can refuse to answer, which is what I think you are suggesting. I am not intending to rolefish here.

In that case, why are people suggesting that no one should vote for or lynch KTS? If we are ignoring Masons, we should act as though KTS never claimed, in which case he's as valid a lynch as anyone else. In that case, ignore his claim completely.

[Randomnamechange]

BTD6 you are being sooooo scummy right now.
Kop, any other comments on the game?

[BTD6_maker]

BTD6 you are being sooooo scummy right now.
Kop, any other comments on the game?

I'm not sure how that's scummy. I am not trying to force a rolefish. What I am saying is that if we establish that no one should counterclaim then anyone could have claimed without it meaning anything. KTS's claim means nothing now if Town are just going to accept it as is.

[Kop]

BTD6 you are being sooooo scummy right now.
Kop, any other comments on the game?

I'm not sure how that's scummy. I am not trying to force a rolefish. What I am saying is that if we establish that no one should counterclaim then anyone could have claimed without it meaning anything. KTS's claim means nothing now if Town are just going to accept it as is.

I would understand that if it was just a normal role being claimed, but masons, it's like your suggesting the only way this is going to go down is if the others come out. I'm not claiming anything, but I don't know why you are persisting to get the others out. If he is telling the truth, then it will come out eventually.

[KuroiXHF]

Prodding Killthestory

[Randomnamechange]

BTD6 you are being sooooo scummy right now.
Kop, any other comments on the game?

I'm not sure how that's scummy. I am not trying to force a rolefish. What I am saying is that if we establish that no one should counterclaim then anyone could have claimed without it meaning anything. KTS's claim means nothing now if Town are just going to accept it as is.

We don't need to know yet, town don't need the info so we might as well not give it to scum.

[BTD6_maker]

That is my point. If we don't need the information for fear of giving it to scum, why should we act as though KTS is unlynchable? In this case, we should not claim but also not consider KTS's claim to have any worth.

You have said two things which together I find to be incompatible:
1: No one should counterclaim
2: If no one counterclaims, KTS must not be lynched
Essentially, you are implying that KTS should not be lynched no matter what. In that case, there is no basis at all for believing KTS's claim. You can't say that "no one counterclaimed so KTS is truthful" if Town generally told everyone not to counterclaim.

Also, this is the second game in a row in which I have pointed out a logical flaw/possibility and people have accused me of rolefishing.

[Creature]

Why would mason not have one of their members counterclaim and get one entire scum faction down?

[Randomnamechange]

We aren't saying not to CC kts. We are saying we don't need to today. It will probably be revealed through flips.

[BTD6_maker]

Either way, today we should ignore KTS's claim. If anyone would have voted KTS (or the other two) had it not been for his claim, you should probably be voting them. His claim has no meaning until someone flips. It is best not to stop people from voting him, Ranger, or Kop as it is (at least for today) just as if he never claimed at all. It would also help if he was more active so I could read him better.

[Kasumeat]

That is my point. If we don't need the information for fear of giving it to scum, why should we act as though KTS is unlynchable? In this case, we should not claim but also not consider KTS's claim to have any worth.

You have said two things which together I find to be incompatible:
1: No one should counterclaim
2: If no one counterclaims, KTS must not be lynched
Essentially, you are implying that KTS should not be lynched no matter what. In that case, there is no basis at all for believing KTS's claim. You can't say that "no one counterclaimed so KTS is truthful" if Town generally told everyone not to counterclaim.

Also, this is the second game in a row in which I have pointed out a logical flaw/possibility and people have accused me of rolefishing.

If we L-1 a mason KTS, we force another mason to claim to protect him. If he's a mason who is lying about his masonbuddies, which he very well might be, that would be bad since we just gave scum more info. Outing masons is particularly bad in multiball format since it protects both scum factions.

If he's gambiting scum and we L-1 him, we get a scumkill without revealing any masons. But the masons might choose to CC anyways if we L-1 someone else, in which case we can lynch KTS immediately.

When you weigh the risks and rewards, I just don't see enough value in threatening a lynch on KTS.

[Kasumeat]

To reiterate, if we L-1 a mason KTS and force another mason to claim to protect him, we basically have about a 50% chance of having both him and his masonbuddy NKed in the first night, which would be extremely bad. If there's uncertainly about who the masons are, we're in much better shape.

[Ranger]

Ranger, are the Masons you, KTS, and Kop? (If you choose not to answer say why)

Here's my answer for you.
VOTE: BTD6.
Kasumeat and Ozymandias are still scum, though.

[BTD6_maker]

Realistically, though, we should assume that KTS is as likely as random to be a Mason. Wagoning any random person to L-1 is as likely to cause a Mason claim as wagoning KTS. If the claim cannot be tested, anyone of any alignment could claim without consequences. If they are found later to be fakeclaiming, they can just claim gambiting VT.

Deciding already that someone should not be lynched is essentially assuming that they are conftown (until further flips show otherwise). Assuming someone is conftown is one of the worst mistakes Town could make.

It is worth noting that in 307 KTS explicitly denied that Kop was a Mason. That would probably affect the level of trust you can ascribe to his claim.

Ranger, is there any reason why you are voting for me? If you had read my later posts you would have known that in hindsight I decided it's best for you not to answer. That was just there if you wanted to answer so I would have been fine with no answer.

[Killthestory]

hold off on posts have to do something

[BTD6_maker]

To reiterate, if we L-1 a mason KTS and force another mason to claim to protect him, we basically have about a 50% chance of having both him and his masonbuddy NKed in the first night, which would be extremely bad. If there's uncertainly about who the masons are, we're in much better shape.

Essentially, the exact same happens if we L-1 a Mason Creature, Kop, Masquerade, Kasumeat, Javajoe, Ranger, Karnos, me, Ozymandias, Randomidget, or Charloux. If you really want uncertainty, just assume that there is a 25% chance that KTS (or everyone else) is Mason. There is no point in purposefully deciding not to L-1 KTS but placing someone else at L-1. They are equally likely to be Mason.

[Killthestory]

yo havent read anything but

Kop and Ranger back me up so we can lynch scummy ass BTD6. The only reason he's doubting my claim is because he's scum going for 'doubt his claim' towncred

[Killthestory]

Kts, you are one of the worst players I have ever come across. Stop acting like you are brilliant because you really aren't.

i dont usually talk about previous posts BUT THIS IS HILARIOUS LOL.

but yeah im the greatest to ever play this game, so please stop denying it