kuribo in Wonderland - [Game Over]

[implosion]

Forgot zakk was v/la. I think I saw that in activity overview at some point.

I just find it odd that you two expect anyone to go follow your leads when you've both contributed next to nothing in terms of reads to the game.

I also agree with this.

In terms of the opinions thing:
People have said they're in favor of having fun with it. People have said they're in favor of taking it very seriously.
People have said they're in favor of pseudo-votes. People have said they're against it.
People have said the king should be a completely empty vessel. People have said that potential kings should state their execution targets and then we effectively vote on those targets. People have declined either of these.
Etc.

[Kagami]

The current plan is awful and obviously so, and no one has even attempted to defend it.

Nacho has already stated that forcing a king to pick a specific target by the will of the town is a superior plan.

The objections raised are nonsense from kuribo, and a reasonable concern from godz that the specific choice of gaiden will be troublesome. The concerns raised are centered on logistics, as if it's impossible to act without mod-generated VCs.

Speaking of which:

FG: Would you be willing to keep official count of some alternative voting scheme?

[FakeGod]

FG: Would you be willing to keep official count of some alternative voting scheme?

No.

[SXTLHGaiden]

FG: Would you be willing to keep official count of some alternative voting scheme?

No.

killjoy

[Kagami]

Those are not opinions on how to take advantage of the setup, those are simply opinions. Any opinion that is opposed to a king specifying their target is anti-town. I don't recall discussion on kings presenting a set of options and the town choosing between them, but since that necessarily occurs before election, I don't see how that's better than simply picking a victim and then electing a king to execute it.

[Spiffeh]

I am mostly indifferent to who is king today as long as they don't shoot my town reads

I think trying to get the perfect circumstances with the king election is probably unattainable and more trouble than it's worth

I'd much prefer you to channel this passion into finding scum

[Kagami]

On review, I'm doubly certain that hero(s) exist. The best course is to choose a victim and elect a king to execute them in some order.

Anyone supporting the current "elect someone who we think is town and let them do whatever" is a fool, or is scum who believes that it is unlikely that the current candidates will lynch a partner.

The only objection that makes any sense is a logistical one, but that only exists because of a lack of support, which should be viewed as extremely suspicious.

[Kagami]

The only way I'll vote for a king is if they're confirmed town whose judgment I trust to some extent, or if they specify a target.

I prefer the latter to the former.

[Kagami]

Gaiden-king would be so good it's painful that there's resistance there.

[implosion]

On review, I'm doubly certain that hero(s) exist. The best course is to choose a victim and elect a king to execute them in some order.

Anyone supporting the current "elect someone who we think is town and let them do whatever" is a fool, or is scum who believes that it is unlikely that the current candidates will lynch a partner.

The only objection that makes any sense is a logistical one, but that only exists because of a lack of support, which should be viewed as extremely suspicious.

surprisingly you being "doubly certain that hero(s) exist" does not convince me!

In fact, on my own review, I've actually found that there's almost certainly a hidden mechanic in the game where the previously elected king gets a free vig shot at night regardless of their alignment. Oh, and another one where scum can't target them for the nk that night.

I agree that actually getting fake-voting to work is probably more trouble than it's worth. Especially with these short deadlines. Doubly especially with no activity requirements. I'd rather just elect someone who's town because, as has been mentioned, it's likely that scum would be able to carry out an execution that's harmful to the town and then weasel their way out of it.

[implosion]

I'm also liking spiffeh's posting but I'm not sure if that's just agreement or if it reads to me as town.

[Spiffeh]

Who cares if there's a scum hero? There's nothing that can be done about it so why is that so important?

I am not very experienced with this setup so I want you to explain clearly why your strategy is the most optimal and how the existence of a scum hero factors in.

Like I'm a five year old.

PEdit: @Kagami obv

[Spiffeh]

Gaiden-king would be so good it's painful that there's resistance there.

So what would Gaiden's specified target be then?

And I am correct in assuming that Nacho is your first choice for execution?

[Kagami]

No, I'd have to think about execution target a bit more. Lynching nacho is pretty terrible if he flips town.

[Kagami]

Who cares if there's a scum hero? There's nothing that can be done about it so why is that so important?

I am not very experienced with this setup so I want you to explain clearly why your strategy is the most optimal and how the existence of a scum hero factors in.

Like I'm a five year old.

PEdit: @Kagami obv

If there is no hero, then you simply elect to maximize the probability that the king lynches scum, which is going to be something similar to (probability of town) x (probability of choosing scum). For sufficiently good players, the obvious thing to do should be to self-vote.

If there are heroes, then you don't want to do that, since you're risking the loss of someone who is both good at broadcasting alignment and identifying scum. You want to instead remove the <probability of picking scum factor> by deciding the target for the executor, then pick an executor who you know will follow orders and who you don't mind losing. The only "risk" is that if you elect scum, he may disobey you, but that will pretty much prove that both the executor and the target are scum, since otherwise he loses nothing from simply following orders.

[SXTLHGaiden]

Pretty much, at worst, Gaiden goes boom and there is no great loss to town.

[kuribo]

Gaiden-king would be so good it's painful that there's resistance there.

jesus fucking CHRIST stop trying to make fetch happen

[kuribo]

Gaiden is in my bottom three of the LAST people I'd want to see a gun handed to

[kuribo]

also, what the fuck is a hero and why the hell are we going back into minmax theory bullshit

[Kagami]

Some people like to win, kuribo.

[BROseidon]

Hero kills the king if they are the one picked to die.

I had to look it up >.>

[Axelrod]

Pre-selecting the kill choice seems like obviously the better way to do this. The idea of the King getting elected and then figuring it out seems awful. And as noted already, completely removes people's ability to claim. This is very different from other Kingmaker set-ups in that regard, yes? I would be willing to keep track of the pseudo-voting.

[kuribo]

Some people like to win, kuribo.

exactly, which is why i find it completely fucking baffling that you're stumping for a player whose sum total of contribution of posts is less than zero


you'd be better off voting for no one at all

[SXTLHGaiden]

Gaiden is in my bottom three of the LAST people I'd want to see a gun handed to

i prefer to think of it as an "executioner's ax"
or you can think of me as a guillotine

[Kagami]

I suspect gaiden would hit scum more frequently than any of the three current king-choices, but let's not worry about that for now.

What's your kill-pool kuribo?