kuribo in Wonderland - [Game Over]

Kagami · Post Post #1125 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 8:34 am

Spiffeh wagon was a stroke of brilliance, and I'm still patting myself on the back for that one.

*pat pat*

camn · Post Post #1126 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 8:43 am

Katz- I agree completely. The Spiff-wagon speed is crazy.
But lets talk nacho. implosion wants that anyway.
You and I had the pleasure of reading him/kagami's brilliant scum comeback in my apartment. Is his tone and approach not exactly the same here?
I know I said the same thing in Gumball.. so it may be that the NEW (post camn-hiatus) nacho is just consistently thoughtful/political/semi-wall-posting. I am open to that idea. But my instinct is that he is scum here.
@ implosion: that is my position on Nacho. My heart screams scum, but it did last game, and I was wrong. So I question it.

In post 1110, implosion wrote: This is a pretty currently-meaningless and oddly timed vote change.

ANYONE is electable. Did you see the speed that Spiff got to L-1?
From kagami's vote to 8 votes in about 30 posts. If you implying my vote is misplaced or something, or trying to spin the narrative that this is a FATE OR SPIFFEH game right now -- that is just silly. There is fully HALF of this dayphase left.

p-edit:
whatev Kagami.. dont strain yourself.

Since you are here.. are you convinced nacho is scum?
You mention SOME suspicion in 894, but seem to think town in 913... but you are obv pro-Spiff which is a nacho-kill.
Can you take a stance on him for us?

Kagami · Post Post #1127 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 8:47 am

Before the spiffeh wagon, katsuki, votes in this game meant nothing. The kings were just going to kill some random scummy-ish person, who even if scum, the scumteam probably wouldn't feel too sad losing. They would vote for whoever and pretend to do things knowing that there was no accountability.

The spiffeh wagon has direction and meaning. A vote for spiff is a vote for nacho's death. Unlike a normal game, however, there remained an alternative of voting for non-accountability.

If Nacho is scum, scum are voting to lynch a strong partner, or lynch elsewhere. If Nacho is town, scum are voting to be accountable for a town death, or voting to be non-accountable. In both cases, scum want to be on the Fate wagon (or at least off-wagon). This is also why I find it more than a little odd that Fate is calling out the Nacho wagon for being scummy, when there is little incentive for scum to be on it.

Kagami · Post Post #1128 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 8:49 am

No, I am not convinced that nacho is scum. I think he has a pretty solid chance of flipping scum, but I'm not confident.

I've been thinking about it, and if I could vote to lynch for realz, I'd vote Brian.

kuribo · Post Post #1129 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 8:51 am

Zakk going VLA immediately after coming back from one makes my teeth itch. Just remember: even if he's telling the truth about personal problems, it doesn't necessarily make him town. I liked his early posting but some of that has been marred by his posting since.

Nacho I'm not super confident in, and I never got around to ISOing him yesterday. Probably will do tonight although super late. I feel like I can't quite put my finger on why I feel that way about his slot and id feel better about the read one way or another if I ISO him.

camn · Post Post #1130 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 8:55 am

In post 1128, Kagami wrote:I've been thinking about it, and if I could vote to lynch for realz, I'd vote Brian.

So why are you so sprung on a Spiffeh king?

implosion · Post Post #1131 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 8:56 am

Kagami wrote:The spiffeh wagon has direction and meaning. A vote for spiff is a vote for nacho's death. Unlike a normal game, however, there remained an alternative of voting for non-accountability.

This is BS. The alternative to voting for Nacho's death is not a vote for non-accountability; it's a vote for someone other than Nacho dying.

Kagami wrote:If Nacho is town, scum are voting to be accountable for a town death

This is also BS. It's not like scum run away from wagons on town in regular games. That's essentially what the Spiffeh wagon is, it's a regular-game wagon on Nacho.

I can actually agree at this point that the Spiffeh wagon has done a good thing for the game in terms of making it more analyzable but my agreement with pretty much anything you've said stops there.

Kagami · Post Post #1132 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 8:57 am

I'm not sprung on it, I just think the wagon existing is great, and am curious enough about nacho's alignment that I'm not terribly concerned if it gets hammered overnight or whenever else I'm not around.

kuribo · Post Post #1133 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:00 am

In post 1127, Kagami wrote:Before the spiffeh wagon, katsuki, votes in this game meant nothing. The kings were just going to kill some random scummy-ish person, who even if scum, the scumteam probably wouldn't feel too sad losing. They would vote for whoever and pretend to do things knowing that there was no accountability.

The spiffeh wagon has direction and meaning. A vote for spiff is a vote for nacho's death. Unlike a normal game, however, there remained an alternative of voting for non-accountability.

If Nacho is scum, scum are voting to lynch a strong partner, or lynch elsewhere. If Nacho is town, scum are voting to be accountable for a town death, or voting to be non-accountable. In both cases, scum want to be on the Fate wagon (or at least off-wagon). This is also why I find it more than a little odd that Fate is calling out the Nacho wagon for being scummy, when there is little incentive for scum to be on it.

This is a pretty disingenuous way of discrediting the people that didn't move over to Spiffeh. Basically you're saying that regardless of Nacho's alignment, scum is on the Fate votes. All of them? None on Katsuki/not voting/vanity?

implosion · Post Post #1134 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:00 am

camn wrote:ANYONE is electable. Did you see the speed that Spiff got to L-1?
From kagami's vote to 8 votes in about 30 posts. If you implying my vote is misplaced or something, or trying to spin the narrative that this is a FATE OR SPIFFEH game right now -- that is just silly. There is fully HALF of this dayphase left.

Fair.

The timing of it still felt strange to me; why would you choose now, of all times, now that the momentum of the wagon has died down and there are two other clear leading wagons, to switch from the dead katsuki wagon to kuribo? It just doesn't seem consistent with the bravado that I perceive in your playstyle. I guess it's consistent with your indecision over Nacho and your desire to prolong the day but I'm a bit skeptical of your indecision on Nacho as well. It feels somewhat like you don't really want to be seen on the wagon or off it.

Kagami · Post Post #1135 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:01 am

off-wagon is the others, and that's more extreme than I'd say. I would be surprised if there's more than one scum-vote on spiffeh ignoring skybird.

Kagami · Post Post #1136 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:02 am

I don't know why you think that's disingenuous.

kuribo · Post Post #1137 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:02 am

Humor me, Kagami, since you've postulated that scum wouldn't be voting Spiffeh:

Who are the scum on the Fatetrain?

And what if Spiffeh is scum? Sure, most of us are town reading him to varying degrees of certainty (and I don't feel he's scum) but suppose he is? Would scum still avoid electing him?

kuribo · Post Post #1138 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:03 am

In post 1135, Kagami wrote:off-wagon is the others, and that's more extreme than I'd say. I would be surprised if there's more than one scum-vote on spiffeh ignoring skybird.

But only X number of people can fit on the wagon without ending the day and we aren't ready for the day to end yet.

camn · Post Post #1139 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:05 am

In post 1134, implosion wrote:It feels somewhat like you don't really want to be seen on the wagon or off it.

I would be fine being ON the wagon- there is just no room for me! A spiffeh vote now is too close to hammering nacho- and I am not ready for that.

camn · Post Post #1140 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:06 am

like kuribo said.

Kagami · Post Post #1141 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:08 am

They would still avoid electing spiffeh. I think you're stuck on "town must elect a town king, while scum want to elect a scum king." Scum want to elect a town king who lynches town. Town doesn't care who they elect as long as the elected player will lynch someone they think is scum.

My guess would be the scumteam is in {skybird, implosion, brian, nacho, zakk, kittymo, godz}. Might be willing to append fate.

kuribo · Post Post #1142 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:10 am

In post 1136, Kagami wrote:I don't know why you think that's disingenuous.

The way you're saying it, you're basically claiming everyone on the Spiffeh wagon is town (or one scum) when there are other factors than that.

kuribo · Post Post #1143 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:10 am

In post 1142, kuribo wrote:
In post 1136, Kagami wrote:I don't know why you think that's disingenuous.

The way you're saying it, you're basically claiming everyone on the Spiffeh wagon is town (or one scum) when there are other factors than that.

And you're claiming this to be the case regardless of Nacho's alignment

SXTLHGaiden · Post Post #1144 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:10 am

In post 1141, Kagami wrote:They would still avoid electing spiffeh. I think you're stuck on "town must elect a town king, while scum want to elect a scum king." Scum want to elect a town king who lynches town. Town doesn't care who they elect as long as the elected player will lynch someone they think is scum.

My guess would be the scumteam is in {skybird, implosion, brian, nacho, zakk, kittymo, godz}. Might be willing to append fate.

This is what makes Gaiden such a good king. He will follow the Will of the People.
Join ME and WE shall ride Eternal in Valhalla, Shiny and Chrome.

Kagami · Post Post #1145 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:12 am

I said there's strong incentive to be off the spiffeh wagon regardless of nacho's alignment.

kuribo · Post Post #1146 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:14 am

In post 1145, Kagami wrote:I said there's strong incentive to be off the spiffeh wagon regardless of nacho's alignment.

So you're basically making excuses to call anyone scum that didn't immediately vote for Spiffeh?

kuribo · Post Post #1147 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:14 am

In post 1144, SXTLHGaiden wrote:
In post 1141, Kagami wrote:They would still avoid electing spiffeh. I think you're stuck on "town must elect a town king, while scum want to elect a scum king." Scum want to elect a town king who lynches town. Town doesn't care who they elect as long as the elected player will lynch someone they think is scum.

My guess would be the scumteam is in {skybird, implosion, brian, nacho, zakk, kittymo, godz}. Might be willing to append fate.
This is what makes Gaiden such a good king. He will follow the Will of the People.
Join ME and WE shall ride Eternal in Valhalla, Shiny and Chrome.

Stop being so thirsty, jesus

Kagami · Post Post #1148 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:15 am

So you're basically a turnip.

This is a fun game.

KittyMo · Post Post #1149 (ISO) » Tue May 24, 2016 9:17 am

I don't see how with town!Nacho in particular it'd be in any way surprising for there to be 2 scum in ABR/DGB/Katsuki/hiplop/zakk/possibly BRO.

I do at least agree that I don't think scum wants a scum king at this point unless they have no good town options and I think that the way the wagon has developed is prob town indicative for Spiffeh