kuribo in Wonderland - [Game Over]

[Fate]

people I havent' included were townreads I forgot about because theres 21 people in this game or just too null for me to remember, Kuribo.

You happen to be town

[kuribo]

and Im the only one whos apparently watching Kagami closely at all.

No, you're definitely not the only one

[kuribo]

people I havent' included were townreads I forgot about because theres 21 people in this game or just too null for me to remember, Kuribo.

You happen to be town

Well that's good to know lol

[G[o]dz]

{ kuribo, Fate, Spiffeh }
{ SXTLHGaiden, Brian Skies, Nachomamma8 }
{ KittyMo, Kamagi, implosion, Axelrod, zakk }
{ BROseidon, camn, Cephrir }
{ hiplop, DrippingGoofball, Albert B Rampage, Kastuki }
{ SirCakez, Skybird }

This is more or less how I feel about the game right now. I don't have any real feelings about order within tiers.

I haven't seen anything that would make me want to keep the very bottom tier alive. The next tier up is people who either haven't done enough or what little they've done hasn't filled me with good thoughts. The next tier up is people who I'm reserving judgment on for now until I see more. And the next tiers up are progressively stronger town reads.

[G[o]dz]

I realise that Kamagi's reasoning is awful. It doesn't stop me feeling that it's not coming from a town mindset. I might try to explain it before the thread closes.

[G[o]dz]

That it's coming from a town mindset*

[Fate]

SirCakez is definitely pretty bad and I was going to shoot anyone scumreading Godz for awhile.


Better be quick with that Kagami defense. I was on the fence for awhile, hence "probably wont shoot Kagami" but then I saw that glaring contradiction in their ISO and I am going to take out the big fish.

No fucking scum gets to cheekily describe their scum strat WHILE playing it out

[Fate]

Btw, fate, you're not going to be king.

Spiffeh probably isn't either unless he wants to compromise on targets, which he should probably be doing right now to make it awkward for any scum on his wagon to move if his new choice is scum.

I like shooting this arrogance down with a smile too

[kuribo]

Everyone's going to be asking for my read on DGB and here it is:

I don't fucking know yet.

I don't generally assign her a read Day 1 anyway because even for me she's hard to read day 1. Initially I was thinking she was scum who was disheartened to draw scum again after Gumball. Figured maybe she felt like not posting just because she had no faith in her partners with a strong town yet again. Then when I realized she hadn't posted at all on the site, I softened on that stance.

As it is now, she's null. I can't get a town read on her small amount of posting. I know fully well she's not going to read the 40 pages she missed (because I wouldn't either) so her sheeping upon entrance is pretty much what I expected from her.

[G[o]dz]

I also don't think I will ever trust Kastuki, because I actually cannot recall him ever outright claiming a town read on me in a game (like, ever), let alone that early. But I also just haven't seen anything that makes me think he's town. Some recent posts he's made have made me waver slightly, but then I wouldn't be surprised if that was by design. I'm not looking for him to be a scum hunting lord or anything since I don't expect that from him; I'm just looking for posts from him that I think are town and I've yet to see them.

[G[o]dz]

Better be quick with that Kagami defense

I don't expect it will be a defense that sways you if you're sold on her being scum. I will outline what I think of her anyway.

[camn]

FATE I agree with your reads\targets list almost perfectly.

Godz....Kats has been playing intentionally scummy day 1 lately. I would reserve judgement till tomorrow. Spiffeh knows this

[G[o]dz]

He hasn't been intentionally scummy, though. At least that's not the impression I got from how he played today. He is not someone I would shoot even if given the choice. I just haven't seen anything that makes me think he's town.

[kuribo]

I do think day 2 we should hypocop since cop sanity is revealed on death

If, say, I flipped Sane Cop, I'd want people to look back and say "oh he had a guilty on X"

But immediately coming out and claiming cop results isn't useful because of sanities. Hence hypocopping.

[camn]

I can only talk about it so much, cuz ongoing games.... but I would just give him another day.
I am only mostly sold on Katz-town.... but this whole hiding the reads thing has been his town meta recently, for sure.

+1 hypocop aka ZOMBIEPOST! PER CAMN ZOMBIERULES!

[Fate]

All other posts aside,

katsuki would not have wagonned for himself to be king as scum.

That's my feeling on him

[G[o]dz]

That is something I was unsure about, too. I think he wouldn't have wanted the limelight as scum because it sets him up for failure in the long run if he doesn't shoot scummates.

That said, I also don't honestly think he thought he'd get as close to being king as he did when he started and by the time it took off, I think if he is scum, he thought he was better off just rolling with it.

[Fate]

THIS WILL BE IN YOUR FIRST POST OF D2 AS PER MY DECREE AS EMPEROR

Spoiler: The ZombiePost

At the start of the day, everyone dicerolls to choose a player, and cointosses to choose a result AND does another diceroll..and they write this IN SPOILERS:

"If I were a power role, I would have targeted [dicerollplayer], and my result was [coinflipresult] or [diceroll2player]"

I call this the ZombiePost, as it only means anything after I die.

The coinflipresult options be [guilty, not guilty, no result]
The diceroll1 should not include yourself, and diceroll2 should include yourself, but not the result of diceroll1. Bot should include live players last night.

Obviously... If you REALLY WERE a power role, you should insert real values where applicable, and random values where not applicable...if you had results worth talking about....but if you were a vig or something, those results are not worth talking about, and you would randomize.
Really this is for trackers/watchers/docs/cops/jailkeepers/etc.

Then...if you die and flip.. Your night play will be suddenly clear to see.
The randomization precludes a shitload of speculation about "why would you have targeted soandso!" And also precludes and scum tipoffs.
Of course we would all have to recognize that PUNISHING or PRESSURING players based on their hypo-targets is totally akin to rolefishing, and as such scummy and anti-town. We would not speak of it until that player was dead. Thus the name. Ideally, no one even READS it until that player is dead.

source=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=65843

[G[o]dz]

Oh and I've decided that while I'm going back over Kamagi's posts, I may as well post my thoughts in small bunches, just in case FakeGod comes online sooner than expected. I don't even trust my opinions on her posts as much as I wish I did, but I'll write what I was thinking at each of the points of the game day.

159 is the first post from her that made me lean slightly town on her. Up until that point, she'd be doing things I would expect her to do as pretty much either alignment. This post is one I'm not so sure she would make as scum. I

think

she has some sort of role-related reason to believe there's a super-saint-esque role in the game, but this didn't look like a "look at me, I'm helping out" post you'd see from scum revealing information (the "which is why..." part being somewhat cheeky is a large part of what I like about it). Granted, she became more and more flagrant about bringing attention to it as time went on, but this was my initial impression of the post at the time it was made.

I do think that her being concerned about the game-state at the point she started campaigning for herself-then-SXTLHGaiden-then-Spiffeh-King was probably not coming from a scum mindset. The caveat here is that, if she is scum, she was doing it because her buddies are not (/were not) seen in a very good light. But I do think she would have been more suggestive and less authorative-sounding in proposing a plan if she were scum, regardless - I can't really explain why I think this except that I do; I just think she'd be more meek as scum. There are also little things that happened around this time which I think seemed mildly town. For example, I didn't mind what she said about Nachomamma8 in 839 - I don't think this was really a strong enough reason to think Nachomamma8 is scum on its lonesome, but I do think it looks like genuine concern for the way Nachomamma8 was acting about it. I also didn't mind the honesty in 848, which shows a kind of arrogance I'm not sure she'd have as scum.

Note

: I may be way off with my impression of what she's like as scum. These are just things I thought at the time.

[Fate]

The fact that Kagami wanted a UNIVERSALLY READ TOWN PLAYER to be King

WITH the supposed knowledge that there are supersaints in the game makes it even worse.

If Kagami is a scum supersaint I better have a damn good blaze fo glory lynch flavor scene, FakeGod

[kuribo]

Fate dying in a blaze of glory killing scum is almost as romantic as the idea of trying to make me a reluctant king lol

[G[o]dz]

The fact that Kagami wanted a UNIVERSALLY READ TOWN PLAYER to be King

WITH the supposed knowledge that there are supersaints in the game makes it even worse.

If Kagami is a scum supersaint I better have a damn good blaze fo glory lynch flavor scene, FakeGod

I don't know what this is referring to, but I think she recanted on the idea of a super-saint-esque role being likely some time ago. Which, actually, was something that I also didn't mind about her posts. Because if it was a planned sort of "hehe, I'm hinting at information to seem helpful" thing, then retracting it doesn't make a lot of sense.

[kuribo]

I don't feel like she was hinting and pretending to be helpful, more that it was pointless and unknowable speculation to appear helpful

[G[o]dz]

Actually, no, I'm apparently remembering that incorrectly so disregard the above post. She mentioned being doubly certain heroes exist. Which changes my opinion on the chain of events that happened pretty drastically... I actually don't know why she was so adamant about Spiffeh being king unless she doesn't have a strong town-read on him.

[G[o]dz]

On review, I'm doubly certain that hero(s) exist. The best course is to choose a victim and elect a king to execute them in some order.

Anyone supporting the current "elect someone who we think is town and let them do whatever" is a fool, or is scum who believes that it is unlikely that the current candidates will lynch a partner.

The only objection that makes any sense is a logistical one, but that only exists because of a lack of support, which should be viewed as extremely suspicious.

When I read this the first time, I thought it said "doubt" instead of "doubly" and I read the sentence in a completely different light.