Micro 618 {Over}

BNL · Post Post #125 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:08 am

Both Murdercat's and karnos' votes on BTD6 look awful... I don't know which is worse.

MURDERCAT · Post Post #126 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:15 am

VOTE: Karnos

Off the top of my head I can think of two games where scum went to a really early L-1, and I only have 5 completed games.

Plus I don't want him at L-1.

Chip Butty · Post Post #127 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:24 am

In post 119, karnos wrote:VOTE: BTD That makes L-1 by my count.

Please don't hammer BTD immediately unless you are a wolf. Let him stew for a bit.

This is pinging me. Leaning scum on karnos now.

I'm also not happy to see RS on this wagon, given other reasons I am suspicious of them.

MC I'm not sure about. Will reserve judgement for now.

Would scum be so dumb as to have both jump so blatantly on a wagon so blatantly, and so early D1?

Chip Butty · Post Post #128 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:46 am

In post 126, MURDERCAT wrote:VOTE: Karnos

Off the top of my head I can think of two games where scum went to a really early L-1, and I only have 5 completed games.

Links, please...

In post 126, MURDERCAT wrote: Plus I don't want him at L-1.

Why not? Do you think Town is likely to hammer? Do you think there is a scum not on the wagon yet?

This quick jump-off when challenged pings me...

Chip Butty · Post Post #129 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:48 am

MC: Also, if you think there is a scum not on that wagon yet, do you think they would be likely to hammer and draw attention to themselves, especially after karnos asked Town not to hammer?

In short, do you really think BTD was in danger of being quicklynched? like I say, your quick hop off so soon after hopping on looks a little panicked...

MURDERCAT · Post Post #130 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:51 am

TBH, I didn't even see BNL's post when I posted that. I don't want him at L-1 because I've heard of scum "accidently" hammering really early and I've seen really stupid claims this early. There's nothing L-1 does that L-2 doesn't do and only bad things come from L-1 this early in my experience. Links coming...

MURDERCAT · Post Post #131 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:51 am

Hope that explains those questions.

karnos · Post Post #132 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:06 am

You realize this is a micro game right? L-1 in a micro game is about the same as L-2 in a larger game. There are only 2 scum. I put BTD at L-1 because I'd LOVE to see a scum quick-hammer him, it would rip the game wide open and give town a free lynch tomorrow. I trust my fellow town to not hammer needlessly. I also saw some value in seeing exactly how BTD reacted to the sudden wagon.

But now all that is for naught.

MURDERCAT · Post Post #133 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:08 am

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p7785107
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p7886595

Both of those are scum going to L-1 on town. I think scum is generally more ok with going to L-1 early on.

MURDERCAT · Post Post #134 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:12 am

Yeah push him to L-1 and then call whatever he does overdefensive, seems like a good scum strat to me. If someone else wants to put him back at L-1 that's fine but I have a feeling they won't because town is usually uncomfortable with L-1 this early.

BTD6_maker · Post Post #135 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:43 am

In post 120, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 104, BTD6_maker wrote: How was my vote scummy? It is consistent with my RVS vote from other games, where I vote someone for having a name suggesting a role that they don't have.
BTD, can you link to completed games with examples of this, please?

Are we looking for a claim from BTD here?

Look at Open 638. (Admittedly, I was scum but this is something I generally do regardless of alignment. I can't link the others as they are all ongoing).

MURDERCAT · Post Post #136 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:48 am

Lol...

Chip Butty · Post Post #137 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:52 am

In post 135, BTD6_maker wrote:
In post 120, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 104, BTD6_maker wrote: How was my vote scummy? It is consistent with my RVS vote from other games, where I vote someone for having a name suggesting a role that they don't have.
BTD, can you link to completed games with examples of this, please?

Are we looking for a claim from BTD here?
Look at Open 638. (Admittedly, I was scum but this is something I generally do regardless of alignment. I can't link the others as they are all ongoing).

But we can still go look at them, I guess...It's a pity the only example you can point to is a game in which you were scum. Not exactly a ringing endorsement...

MURDERCAT · Post Post #138 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:54 am

I mean it's looks super weird/ uncomfortable that he tried to defend his vote like that and now can't actually do it.

MURDERCAT · Post Post #139 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:55 am

(Kind of want to move my vote back, but I still don't like Karnos or going to L-1)

karnos · Post Post #140 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:09 am

In post 130, MURDERCAT wrote:TBH, I didn't even see BNL's post when I posted that. I don't want him at L-1 because I've heard of scum "accidently" hammering really early and I've seen really stupid claims this early.

How did you miss the ninja post notification?

In post 130, MURDERCAT wrote: There's nothing L-1 does that L-2 doesn't do and only bad things come from L-1 this early in my experience. Links coming...

A sole scum can hammer an L-1, but can't do the same at L-2, that is one think L-1 does that L-2 doesn't. If you want to make an omelette, you have to break a few eggs. If you want to catch a wolf, you might have to offer it a tasty morsel. I'm fine with trading BTD for a wolf, are you not?

(Remember, the wolves do not have a night kill ability. The only way they can win is by pushing some miss lynches.)

MURDERCAT · Post Post #141 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:27 am

I think it sometimes doesn't show when I'm on my phone and I've clicked to read unread posts on one page but there's new posts on a second page that I haven't looked at. It has happened to me before. Or maybe it just doesn't show with quick reply? I don't know.

As for your other point, I think everyone can agree that hammering now would be stupid. So theoretically a hammer would be NAI because it's a bad play for either alignment. So I don't really think we could be sure a hammerer would be a wolf (of course we'd probably still lynch them). So I stand by my point that nothing good can come from it and honestly town is more likely to make stupid mistakes than scum (I know I have made my fair share as town).

Regardless, my point on you isn't that L-1 is particularly dangerous and you were looking for a lynch, just that scum like to go to L-1 early in my experience.

JaeReed · Post Post #142 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:47 am

In post 124, BNL wrote:
In post 121, Chip Butty wrote: I have to say, that wagon looks a bit quick, guys...
Yes, the wagon seems a lot quicker than usual, and I feel that BTD6 is town with scum on his wagon, solely due to the speed of the wagon. Kinda reminds me of this.

I'm not sure I follow this. Is the comparison only due to the speed of the wagon? Wagon speed doesn't mean much alignment-wise. Flash wagons happen on both town and scum, and they can happen with all town on the wagon, so what we're looking for here is the motivation of people for jumping on/off the wagon (I don't think we can get much from people staying off the wagon due to the speed it formed though, which is a bit of a shame).

Dislike Murder's vote there. Found karnos' to be ok if a little overboard in trying to make BTD feel pressure from being at L1, since he is gonna feel pressure from it without waving it around that he's in danger of being hammered.

ReallySick · Post Post #143 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:45 pm

I feel scum is in ChipButty/muredercat/BTD?

Just a d1 read but I'm ready to push my scum reads.

Ranger · Post Post #144 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:45 pm

T

he voices in my head are always screaming...

Votecount 1.6

BTD6_maker - 3 (JaeReed, Really Sick, karnos)

BulletNLynchproof - 2 (Charloux, BTD6_maker)
ReallySick - 1 (BulletNLynchproof)
Murdercat - 1 (Chip Butty)
karnos - 1 (Murdercat)

Not Voting - 1 (Dionysus and Ariadne)

BTD6_maker is at L-2.

Deadline is on Tuesday, June 21st: (expired on 2016-06-21 04:15:00).

ReallySick · Post Post #145 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:30 pm

1. You (Realeo) continue to tr BNLP, but you can't say why and you admit the reason is "dumb"? And what is this "something else"? You seem to be saying you were concerned he was at L-2. Why? That's not such a big deal in RVS. He's not going to be quicklynched. Why did you find it "compulsory" to announce you weren't going to vote him to L-1? Why not just say that, rather than you had a hunch he is Town? Those are two different things.

1. Good argument, they are 2 different thing.

You see, at Newbie 1701, I was: (1)put at L-1 at page 6 (2)Called a newbtown (3)Sworn to not come back to this site (4)Sworn that I will be receiving wotc in 3 months.

And you know what? I pinned the scum at the end of the game when others are running in circle. Granted, it's a happy ending, but it was so

demoralizing.

So let's say that I have minor PTSD and BPLP gave me

deja vu

but at the same time I also have minuscule town lead so I feel the common courtesy to reduce the pain. Fair enough?

2. It just looks weird that you are not backing away from your "hunch" but you can't explain the basis of it.

I can explain it but I can't explain it to you. I would like to keep it for a while and sickofit agrees with me that we should keep it for a while.

You may keep bugging me about this but neither sickofit nor me will explain it for the time being.

I've got to say, that takes the biscuit as one of the most bizarre posts I have ever seen in a game of Mafia. But, okay, Realeo - can you be more specific and point out just which midnight (in which specific timezone?) posts were so "shitty"?

General observation. You're not expecting me to keep tally right?

~Realeo

ReallySick · Post Post #146 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:54 pm

@ChipButty: When I was reading your ISO--it seem that you're too relaxed for a concept of people being put at L-1.

Granted, my concern at BPLP was a little bit premature--but your seem to be too relaxed about BTD wagon and start questioning MURDERCAT. I mean, there's only 7 days left at the clock so a lynch there won't be so weird.

And you haven't use your vote?

Unless, you have some philosophy that I am not aware of.

~Realeo

ReallySick · Post Post #147 (ISO) » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:08 pm

I am comfortable and agree with my other head putting that vote on BTD6.

~Realeo.

Chip Butty · Post Post #148 (ISO) » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:23 am

In post 116, ReallySick wrote:Is it from an ongoing game?

In post 145, ReallySick wrote: I can explain it but I can't explain it to you. I would like to keep it for a while and sickofit agrees with me that we should keep it for a while.

You may keep bugging me about this but neither sickofit nor me will explain it for the time being.

Earlier, it looked like you were suggesting you couldn't discuss it because it was from an ongoing game. Now you are saying you both just want to keep it to yourselves for undisclosed reasons? I dunno, seems odd to me...

Chip Butty · Post Post #149 (ISO) » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:37 am

In post 146, ReallySick wrote:@ChipButty: When I was reading your ISO--it seem that you're too relaxed for a concept of people being put at L-1.

Granted, my concern at BPLP was a little bit premature--but your seem to be too relaxed about BTD wagon and start questioning MURDERCAT. I mean, there's only 7 days left at the clock so a lynch there won't be so weird.

Uh, no. Read my 121, 127, 128, 129 for concern at BTD being at L-1. And it's kind of weird that you accuse me of this, given that your vote remains on BTD. Also, questioning MC was directly connected to that wagon on BTD, given that MC was on that wagon and jumped off right away in response to being challenged.

In post 146, ReallySick wrote: And you haven't use your vote?

Huh? My vote is on MC. That vote was placed during RVS, but I decided to leave it there when MC jumped on the BTD wagon. But, you know, you're right. I think it is time to place a serious vote.

For reasons already stated, and generally weird behavior: VOTE: REALLY SICK