Micro 617: Pokémon Episode 5 GAME OVER

[Bellaphant]

Ugh, is anyone else reacting badly to the fact race fan just made a whole load of words say....nothing? Like, his section on me is literally: may or may not be a miller and voted a scum read. Also, 'a slight town reas' doesn't make sense: either you believe the claim, or I'm scum.

I've never fake claimed in rvs BTW.

[Radja]

Day 2, VC 2

Sword of Damocles (2)

-

BlueBloodedToffee, Bellaphant

Not Voting (5)

-

lilith2013, Sword of Damocles, Ranger, racefan12, Yume

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch! Deadline is on June 28th at 08:00 PM(GMT+1) or in (expired on 2016-06-28 20:00:00).

Mod Notes - N/A

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ugh, is anyone else reacting badly to the fact race fan just made a whole load of words say....nothing? Like, his section on me is literally: may or may not be a miller and voted a scum read. Also, 'a slight town reas' doesn't make sense: either you believe the claim, or I'm scum.

I've never fake claimed in rvs BTW.

I had the opposite feeling...I kind of liked it. He is trying to get his thoughts out and it looks like he is genuinely trying to contribute to the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Thoughts on Sword Bella?

[racefan12]

Do you think there's some kind of significance to Swords specifically asking you stuff?

Maybe he's had bad experiences with newer players not contributing to the game, and wants to make sure that doesn't happen here. It does seem odd, though, considering that I wasn't inactive up to that point.

And yeah, my last post ended up being longer than I thought it was going to be. It just seemed that most of the attention to this point (out of the players still alive) had focused on Sword and I was trying to share my thoughts on some of the other players.

I've never fake claimed in rvs BTW.

If the claim is serious, I have no reason at this point not to believe it. I'm just not used to such claims, so I assumed it wasn't.

[Sword of Damocles]

Ugh, is anyone else reacting badly to the fact race fan just made a whole load of words say....nothing? Like, his section on me is literally: may or may not be a miller and voted a scum read. Also, 'a slight town reas' doesn't make sense: either you believe the claim, or I'm scum.

I've never fake claimed in rvs BTW.

I had the opposite feeling...I kind of liked it. He is trying to get his thoughts out and it looks like he is genuinely trying to contribute to the game.

If this is the case, he's not trying very hard. (Although, it is true that there is not much to sort. But he could have at least speculated on what people's posts could mean.) That post is full of lines that simply tell what happened without offering his own opinions on it:

Though either way, it strikes me as WIFOM: It's been stated that normal site meta indicates people claiming Miller tend to actually be Millers, but that doesn't change the fact that it would be a convenient claim for scum. Bella also indicated during Twilight that she would be suspicious of Sword if JT flipped town, and indeed, she followed that up with a vote today. Nothing too notable there.

Asserted during Twilight that Sword is "definitely scum". Also made the comment of "If I live to see tomorrow"... daring the mafia to target her? ...Either way, she indeed survived the Night,

Stated it would be "insane" for NotMafia to hammer JT as scum; obviously correct as NM was town. Expressed suspicion of Sword based on "gut".

Made a post that seemingly goaded NM into hammering JT, then immediately expressed regret for doing so; this probably serves as the basis for most of the suspicion against him (actually, what is the proper way to refer to the gender of a hydra?). I'm not sure that NM needed the goading, though. NM seems like a fairly impulsive person on his own and possibly would have done the hammering regardless...Stated that Bella's Miller claim likely meant that she was town, but then directed a possible Vig to target her.

(By the way, you can say "they", or when talking about a particular head, you can say "he".)
And what he does offer his opinions on, they don't seem to be that profound or lead to any conclusions.

That strikes me as odd wording, coming from someone who appears to be fairly self-confident without otherwise saying much.

Says it was odd without saying what that means or going anywhere with it. (Though he does imply that he is planning to go somewhere with it eventually, I suppose.)

I'm not really sure where he draws his conclusion of Bella being town from--his logic seems to be that Bella would have been NM's NK target if he were scum, but since he wasn't, I'm not sure how that logic leads to any deduction about Bella's alignment.

BBT thinks N_M protected Bella, and the scum shot Bella, and that's why N_M died. With that knowledge, can you come to a conclusion about BBT?

Seems to be trying to get me involved in the game by twice directing specific questions at me, though that could just be common courtesy to a newbie.

This is the only thing that actually tries to sort us, and it doesn't lead to the conclusion that we're scummy. So where is that read coming from?
-smart

[Ranger]

Whoops. Thought I had posted here yesterday. Guess not!
VOTE: Sword of Damocles.
I'll read in a sec, but I said they were scum yesterday and I was not joking.

[Sword of Damocles]

Whoops. Thought I had posted here yesterday. Guess not!
VOTE: Sword of Damocles.
I'll read in a sec, but I said they were scum yesterday and I was not joking.

Nobody quickhammer please!
There is currently a non-case and if we are lynched town will be screwed royally!

Ranger, please read up, present your reasons, and discuss this with us. Why are we a scumread and where do others rank?

[Sword of Damocles]

^^ Ari again.
I wish I could remember to do this!

[Ranger]

Ranger, you never did explain. What was the reason behind your JT vote?

Weak reasons.
The vote was cast on page one.
That post was on page two.

In no way could I have expected a hammer on page

four

.
Also, irrelevant reasons because they flipped town.

I didn't like their entrance, but it wasn't something worth lynching them over.

I think you're the scum off the wagon, but that there was also probably a scum on the wagon.

Basically, I think Bellaphant is town, and also am assuming Yume is probably town, and am looking for the second within {racefan12, BlueBloodedToffee, lilith2013}.
BlueBloodedToffee has made a very strong presence, from memory had one yesterday as well, so I don't think it's him.
Meaning I'm mostly taking a look at {racefan, lilith} for a scumbuddy, but I do need to do that full reread.
For what little we have at least.

[Ranger]

Ugh, is anyone else reacting badly to the fact race fan just made a whole load of words say....nothing?

It did not escape my notice, no.

At this stage, my reads look something like:
{BlueBloodedToffee, Bellaphant}
{Yume}
{lilith}
{racefan}
{Sword of Damocles}

[Sword of Damocles]

Those posts sound more like the Ranger from Carbon 14 (scum) than the Ranger from C9++ (town).
@Ranger why is lilith a scumlean? I think her play so far has been perfectly consistent with her towngame.
-smart

[Sword of Damocles]

Also, Ranger, can you elaborate on your Yume read please?
They are higher than I would have expected.
What gives you town vibes from that slot?

- Ari

[racefan12]

This is the only thing that actually tries to sort us, and it doesn't lead to the conclusion that we're scummy. So where is that read coming from?

Looking back, I guess much of my reasoning for that comment was just based on other players' reads/votes on you rather than anything independent from my part. The only action I from you that I would normally consider scummy was the post goading Not_Mafia to provide the hammer, but as I noted, that suspicion was mitigated by Not_Mafia's impulsiveness, which is why any read from that is slight, if at all.

Sorry for the perceived fluff in my post earlier. I shouldn't have posted all that if it didn't lead me to draw any meaningful conclusions.

Ranger's lack of information-sharing is off-putting to me. Sword asked Ranger to provide her case against them, but she gave nothing other than "I think you're the scum off the wagon". She has also provided little reasoning for some of her other reads. So I find her scum-leaning.

BBT thinks N_M protected Bella, and the scum shot Bella, and that's why N_M died. With that knowledge, can you come to a conclusion about BBT?

Sounds like a soft claim of some sort of watcher/tracker role.

[Ranger]

Ranger why is lilith a scumlean?

She's not. She's just not a townlean and she's in the "figures of interest" pool.

Ranger, can you elaborate on your Yume read please?

Unless the lynch was all town, there'd be one scum on the wagon.
You're my scumread off the wagon.
Mixed with a side of gut, and you get: townread.

[Sword of Damocles]

Ranger why is lilith a scumlean?

She's not. She's just not a townlean and she's in the "figures of interest" pool.

Ranger, can you elaborate on your Yume read please?

Unless the lynch was all town, there'd be one scum on the wagon.
You're my scumread off the wagon.
Mixed with a side of gut, and you get: townread.

No.
I will give you that there is a possibility of one on,one off. But it is in no way a provable or likely Stat.
And this is literally the biggest copier to cover for a fabricated read I've ever seen!
How many posts have Yume made, Ranger?
In answering that, please tell me again why they are a townread! Where is your "gut" coming from, pray tell! Sure, they were not on the wagon, but think about why! You are not thinking critically and you are likely scum.

VOTE: Ranger

Sorry SS, I can't deal with this scum any longer.

- Ari

[Aristophanes]

Copier = copout.
I Such sometimes

- Ari

[Ranger]

How many posts have Yume made, Ranger?

None.

Doesn't stop the statements I made from being true.
The lynch was unlikely to be all town. Ergo, there must be at least one scum on it.
I do not believe both scum were on it.
I believe you are scum.
You were off the wagon.
Ergo, the other scum is on the wagon.
Ergo, Yume who was off the wagon is not scum.
Furthering this, I have a gut townread on Yume even in spite of Yume having no posts. This is because I simply don't think Yume is scum, with absolutely no reasoning attached because there literally can't be any reasoning attached. I simply think it so.

Sorry SS, I can't deal with this scum any longer.
- Ari

Ironically, you would have stood a chance of 115 sounding good if you had signed it Something_Smart.
At the very least, it'd have been null.

This is not a town-Aristo.

[Sword of Damocles]

Wtf.
I don't care how you try to reason this out. A gut read based on zero posts is literal poppicock.
You are also making huge logical leaps there. Why couldn't both scum be on or off the wagon,especially with it being an eRly quicklynch?

Say what you will about this being/not being townAri,but I know this isn't Town Random Germany and I don't intend to lose to you!

[Ranger]

Why couldn't both scum be on or off the wagon,especially with it being an eRly quicklynch?

If five town players simultaneously decided to lynch a town player...then that would mean {Sword of Damocles, Yume, Bellaphant} contains two scum. Bellaphant claimed miller on D1 even. That would require you being scum. Ergo...five town players did not simultaneously decide to lynch town.

If two scum were on the wagon, then why would Not_Mafia be dead? It would narrow down the suspect list.
Ergo, two scum were not on the wagon.

Thus...one on, one off.

[Sword of Damocles]

Sorry for the perceived fluff in my post earlier. I shouldn't have posted all that if it didn't lead me to draw any meaningful conclusions.

That's not really true. My concern with you was that BBT thought you were honestly trying but all of what you did was surface level and could come from scum too. So what I want from you is some deeper stuff... really try to delve into why somebody might be doing what they're doing.

Ranger's lack of information-sharing is off-putting to me. Sword asked Ranger to provide her case against them, but she gave nothing other than "I think you're the scum off the wagon". She has also provided little reasoning for some of her other reads. So I find her scum-leaning.

This is a facet of Ranger's unique playstyle; it mystifies the people who've never seen it before. In fact, most of what you said is true of Ranger all the time. The part I do agree with is that her "one on, one off" reasoning is crap.

If five town players simultaneously decided to lynch a town player...then that would mean {Sword of Damocles, Yume, Bellaphant} contains two scum. Bellaphant claimed miller on D1 even. That would require you being scum. Ergo...five town players did not simultaneously decide to lynch town.

If two scum were on the wagon, then why would Not_Mafia be dead? It would narrow down the suspect list.
Ergo, two scum were not on the wagon.

Thus...one on, one off.

Okay. I agree with Ari's vote. This is a carbon copy of Ranger's crap case on Creature in the only game I've ever seen her as scum in. For her, not making sense is a scumtell.
Because this post makes no sense from a logical standpoint. First of all nobody except Not_Mafia actually intended to lynch Justin, so saying "five town players did not simultaneously decide to lynch town" is just wrong.

And another thing. Suppose you're considering if we are scum with XXXX. Well, the odds of {Sword of Damocles, XXXX} containing two scum is so low, that you might as well just ignore it, right? So if you're convinced that Sword of Damocles is an easy mislynch, then you have to townread XXXX, right?

There is absolutely no reason to assume that the partner of an absent player would feel the need to be on a lynch wagon just to guarantee one-on, one-off. In fact, zero-on, two-off is very effective and it's only statistics that says that one-on, one-off is most likely. But it's not something you can assume.

Finally, you are assuming Not_Mafia was the target of the nightkill. Which right now I would say is less that 50% likely. (Unless you killed him, of course.)

So overall, I fully agree with Ari's vote and I bet we'll be able to find her partner even if she does get her mislynch on us. This is Ranger's scumgame.

@everyone else: if you don't believe my assertions about Ranger, check out the game I linked. She got her mislynch on me at the cost of letting me catch both her and her partner. If you're going to mislynch us, at least give us room to get the same result here. We're already halfway there.
-smart

[lilith2013]

Equally tempted . got a dumb gut read on ^ as well....

Hey bella, when you posted this were you referring to a scumread on swords or a townread?

[lilith2013]

I'm townreading Smart but kinda don't like Ari's posting, so.. Not really sure what that sums up to.

[lilith2013]

Ranger, did you read NM's flip?

[Bellaphant]

Hi Lilith, it was a scum read based on awkwardness more than anything else.

However, bbt and ranger are creeping me out and I think it's an either/or situation, but I can't get my head round it.