Newbie 1715 (Game Over)

[eagerSnake]

Hello all

[eagerSnake]

Sorry I haven't been the most active, I have a lot of irl responsibilities to attend to. However, I am going to start accessing the forum via my phone so I will be able to post more often going forward. I still won't be the most active, I'm sure. But, I'm currently looking into a way to somehow subscribe to the thread and receive notifications on my phone when there are unread messages. Do any of you know if there is any way to do this?

[eagerSnake]

Okay, thank you. I am subscribed already since I have set it to auto-subscribe when I reply to a thread. Now, is there any way to receive push- or text-notifications when there is a new reply?

[eagerSnake]

Lol, what do you mean?

[eagerSnake]

I understand. Formatting posts, quoting etc. Alas, my phone will be more of an angel than a devil as it will give me more frequent access to the forum so I can make more than one post every 3/4 pages lol

[eagerSnake]

How do we find out who is sdum?

[eagerSnake]

Why has nobody answered my question as to how we find scum?

[eagerSnake]

I get it... so basically we just try to see who is acting like us and that's how we'll know who is town and people who answer questions or act different are most likely scum.

[eagerSnake]

No creature I didn't find any scum yet, but I do get a town feeling from sirCakez although I don't know for sure because he may just be experienced enough to make himself look like he's on the town side

[eagerSnake]

Why are we voting for the IC now?

[eagerSnake]

Yeah it is hard to tell if someone is scum if they never post anything... it also doesn't help town by not posting... but it does say that day phase is two weeks long so maybe we should just be patient

[eagerSnake]

Creature, I'm not sure why, but I just get a scumvibe from you. I think it's because you are the most active/aggressive but you might do that because you know you're town so you aren't worried about that.. not sure.. I think I'm thinking like the guy on the princess bride now lol

[eagerSnake]

Came to see what I mightve missed but, it seems like we all sleep at night

[eagerSnake]

Tojam you are at l-2

[eagerSnake]

@SirCakez I already said who I thought so far - Getting a townvibe from you and a scumvibe from creature but can't be sure about either yet

@everyone Yes, I have played mafia before in an IRC setting, but I feel like it's completely different to forum mafia. So I am going to accept being newbie, rather than act as if I know everything just because I played IRC mafia years ago, when I don't. In my eyes this is a completely different game

[eagerSnake]

Okay everyone who is voting for tojam needs to make a case NOW. He's at l-1 so either unvote or tell us why you're sure he's scum and should be lynched.
Tojam you are at l-1 what do you have to say

[eagerSnake]

So we saying our IC is so bad at being scum that we know he's scum off of just 1-2 posts?

Since he's an IC, shouldn't he know how to make himself look townie and it shouldn't be so easy to find him as scum?

This seems too easy and too quick to be 100% sure that he is scum....


If we lynch him we have a couple things that could happen:
He shows up confirmed scum. Then: Who is his partner?
He shows up confirmed town. Then: Who is the scum?

Are you able to answer all these questions? If not, you may not be ready to lynch anyone yet.

[eagerSnake]

What else you got, tom?

[eagerSnake]

I.e. if you were to die right now and show up town what would you want to show/tell us that will help us find scum

[eagerSnake]

I'm okay with waiting to lynch though. We definitely can get more info first and I'd like to hear tojam's reads and what he'd want us to look at if he flips town

Definitely want to hear what he has for us before we do anything drastic.


I think we need to take a deeper look at Creature at this point

[eagerSnake]

Being able to read how genuine someone's posting is makes tojam feel like such obvious scum. All of their posts seem forced.

"their"

[eagerSnake]

Okay it sounded when I read it like you were talking about a party and not a singular so I was looking for clarification thanks

[eagerSnake]

Tom+creature team?

[eagerSnake]

What do you think, DotW?

[eagerSnake]

What are you thinking Dwlee?

[eagerSnake]

Why would Creature be pushing tom's lynch if they are a team, DotW?

[eagerSnake]

By not knowing what Tom is doing

was me backing away from

what's supposed to be tojam2 discrediting me

(I think).

Can you rephrase sorry I don't understand what you were trying to say

[eagerSnake]

Has he been online? I don't check on these things...

[eagerSnake]

SirCakez and atm are almost as inactive as tojam

[eagerSnake]

Post count

Creature - 82
crazycrabman - 45
LicketyQuickety - 41

Dwlee99 - 38
Dragon of the West - 32
eagerSnake - 29

atm487 - 14
SirCakez - 13
tojam2 - 5

[eagerSnake]

I really can't agree with Creature being scum with tojam... who would the alternative scum team be?

[eagerSnake]

Creature what are your top 4 possible scum combinations?

[eagerSnake]

Why not LQ + DotW?

[eagerSnake]

You never know.. he is a newbie.

[eagerSnake]

But it is halftime of day 1 at this point. 7 irl days down, 7 to go until deadline. we need to start narrowing and gearing towards a lynch in the next few days. tojam, atm, and sircakez need to contribute more this day is half-way over.

[eagerSnake]

If tojam isnt scum I will eat a hat.

If tojam flips town I want video proof of this

[eagerSnake]

you have to do [ v ]playername[ /v ] - but without the spaces around the v and /v

[eagerSnake]

What about a Dwlee9 and LQ scumteam? Why is that not possible?

[eagerSnake]

no it's "[ v ]playername[ /v ]" without the spaces

[eagerSnake]

Saying you're town means nothing you're not confirmed

[eagerSnake]

Already now explain yourself atm487 why did you vote tojam

[eagerSnake]

VOTE: atm487

why did you vote tojam

[eagerSnake]

I voted to make you realize how important it is that you say more than just "vote blah" - because if anything is more scummy than being inactive, it's being inactive

and

casting the l-1 vote with

no reasoning

and then going back inactive

[eagerSnake]

wait that's eagersnake's first vote all game. what

Yeah, I

really

didn't want to him to cast the l-1 vote and then go back inactive for 2 days

[eagerSnake]

atm487 can you please elaborate on these "scummy vibes" you are picking up from tojam?

[eagerSnake]

VOTE: unvote

since my vote has served its purpose

[eagerSnake]

atm487 who do you think are the two scum?

[eagerSnake]

Dwlee your logic on me being scum for coaching atm487 makes no sense if you truly believe that because that would mean you think that's the scum team. If that's true then why are you voting for tojam?

[eagerSnake]

crazycrabman we still have 7 days 5 business days to scumhunt before we lynch tojam just 'for information' if that's the only reason you are lynching is to get information then you should wait

[eagerSnake]

Please nobody derphammer without any last words from tojam

[eagerSnake]

Good morning

FoS: Dwlee99

[eagerSnake]

We still have time to figure this out I'm not trying to rush why are you trying to rush so we don't get more info?

[eagerSnake]

Welcome back SirCakez glad you could join us

[eagerSnake]

Do I think they're bussing? No. One of them must be town if not both imo.

The point of both my vote and my question was to promote/provoke activity from an inactive player, atm487, which was successful. Glad to see almost everyone active except tojam so I can have reads on everyone before lynching

[eagerSnake]

Seems genuine

[eagerSnake]

I'm fairly confident in my town reads on SirCakez, atm487, and crazycrabman. I have some doubt of DotWs and Creatures alignment. And more doubt of tojam, dwlee9, and LQ.

TBH I'm almost sure tojam will be lynched so I'm trying to figure out who his partner is if he shows up scum, or who the scum team is should he show up town.

[eagerSnake]

But since I don't have solid answers to the question I'm just not ready to go into d2 is that really not understandable

[eagerSnake]

Who was saying we Lynch tojam and the next day Lynch creature? It keeps coming to my mind and just oozes scum

[eagerSnake]

So if tojam turns scum then his partner should be either LQ or DotW.
If tojam flips town then scum will still be either LQ or DotW, with the addition of Creature or Dwlee9.

Sound about right? Or could Dwlee9 possibly be scum with tojam?

[eagerSnake]

Alright so we should be getting a post with substance from Tojam later today. I say we at least wait for that post before hammering him down.

[eagerSnake]

Considering circumstances, though. By process of eliminations and the information available I feel fairly confident of SirCakez for now.

[eagerSnake]

Won't be too much longer now

[eagerSnake]

Oh we have more time than I had thought! I was looking at the date the thread was created instead of when it opened

[eagerSnake]

Interesting. Why the town lean on DotW?

[eagerSnake]

Still waiting for the post he promised us

[eagerSnake]

granted I really think the IC should participate more because this 1-2 posts a day is pretty ridiculous for this game.

I am debating whether or not I should take the pressure off the IC a while, but I would expect town under this pressure try something rather than stay inactive like this.

Right. He said he would give us a post last night but never did. Idk if he's even rtft but I'm going to wait until about 1pm est before I take action on this I feel that's more than a reasonable amount of time

[eagerSnake]

Yeah which he already posted, but yeah dwlee9 I agree

[eagerSnake]

Agreed he should be lynched if he doesn't rtft soon

[eagerSnake]

Pretty much I feel comfortable with that... anyone have any objections?

[eagerSnake]

Can you show me an example of this?

[eagerSnake]

Dwlee9 is atm487 still your next on list for scum after LQ?

[eagerSnake]

VOTE: atm487

I really want to lynch atm487 atm

*cough* you are trying to lynch someone who is not playing this game.

The more Dwlee posts, the more scummy he appears to me. I haven't since him look for scum as much as he's tried to push a vote through.

*cough*

Why are you two coughing?

[eagerSnake]

Must be Scumflu because I feel fine and they are the only two that got it

[eagerSnake]

Well in another game that I read through I did happen to notice the scum used action tags like that "*cough*" turned out they were scum. Maybe it's a forced thing that mostly scum does?

[eagerSnake]

Based on trends, tojam should be posting within the next 2 hours.

[eagerSnake]

The thing that gets me is the fact that I think if tojam was scum he would've at least tried to counter-wagon someone, but also if he was town he would scumhunt...

[eagerSnake]

He's done neither....

[eagerSnake]

Tojam you are at l-1 again I'm not hammering just yet I'm giving you about an hour to info dump so we can see what you got

[eagerSnake]

He threw shade at creature.

TBH with the level of activity and amount of info from just d1 this game should be easy to figure out, esp for vets, regardless of what tojam flips

[eagerSnake]

I'm here

[eagerSnake]

Interesting night...

I feel that there is only one person who has reason to fear SirCakez.

LQ I think
Who is indeed probably scum

While LQ could have killed creature or Dwlee, that would be much more risky.

Why would that be more risky?

Town - Creature, crazycrabman
Nulltown - Dwlee, atm487
Null - Dragon of the West, eagersnake (having trouble sorting these two)
Scumlean - LQ
Scum - Tojam

Who else would have a reason to kill Sircakez? This was his last predictions. Nobody had a reason to kill Sircakez except LQ. For this reason, and the reasons stated before~ VOTE: LQ

I would not be that obvious to make that NK. I would have killed eagerSnakes who had a Townread on me.

When did I have a town read on you?

[eagerSnake]

Never

[eagerSnake]

Have something better to talk about?

[eagerSnake]

Dwlee9 had good motive to kill Sircakez also

[eagerSnake]

Dwlee9 had good motive to kill Sircakez also

how so?

iirc he had a townlean read on you and you could use the kill to cast suspicion on someone else

[eagerSnake]

Why would dwlee9 want to dismiss information that helps town and could lead to the discovery of a mafia member?

A NK analysis is just as useful to town as lynch analysis.

Why would any townsperson want to dismiss ANY information, especially a NK?

With the limited info that townspeople have, Town-aligned people would not want to dismiss any information.

VOTE: Dwlee9

[eagerSnake]

Why would dwlee9 want to dismiss information that helps town and could lead to the discovery of a mafia member?

A NK analysis is just as useful to town as lynch analysis.

Why would any townsperson want to dismiss ANY information, especially a NK?

With the limited info that townspeople have, Town-aligned people would not want to dismiss any information.

VOTE: Dwlee9

Night kill analysis is very difficult (especially with only one flip). It is impossible to infer the intentions of scum when they kill someone. They could be killing someone because the person scum read them. They could be killing someone because the person town read them. Hell they could be killing someone because they thought they were softing a power role. Therefore night kill analysis is simply WIFOM most of the time and really not worth getting into as it leads people astray.

That doesn't mean we should throw away the evidence. Only scum would want to do that.

[eagerSnake]

By piggybacking you mean

exactly

what you are doing right now? Although yours falls more on the side of bandwagoning but meh.

I am pretty sure I am NOT doing that because I am giving legitimate reasons for my Scum read on you. As far as I can tell I am really the only one putting pressure on you and I think you are feeling a bit hot under the collar right now.

For some reason I thought you were agreeing with eagersnake about the NKA stuff but I saw 675, nevermind.
About feeling "hot under the collar" isnt me being cavalier one of the reasons you scum read me? How can it be both?

Btw, I don't think we should analyze the NK, I think scum was PR hunting or at worst (or best) trying to throw WIFOM.

Why would Creature think scum would think SirCakez was a PR?

[eagerSnake]

Right. Which would lead me to believe at least 1 of the scum is a vet.

[eagerSnake]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... h_analysis.

[eagerSnake]

NKA's just as vital as lynch analysis.

Yes, tread carefully; nightkill analysis is a wifom minefield. It's easy to get lost, since usually, there's no single reason a player dies; generally, it's multiple factors combined. So it's impossible to be certain.


...But it's not something to be flat-out ignored. If you can figure out the reasons why that player died (common ones being: obvtown, reads dangerously close, is a rational player capable of changing their reads, and might be a PR), then you can better figure out who killed them. Who had the most to gain from their death, and why? Who is more likely to kill them? What does the kill accomplish? Was it random or planned? Things like that.

Again,

Don't put too much stock in it.

You don't want to ignore NKA, but you don't want to put much faith in it. Let it contribute to a read, not be the entire basis of a read.

[eagerSnake]

True. Let's not make the NK our sole, or main, reason for a lynch. But we shouldn't ignore it or dismiss it, either. It is difficult, or even impossible at this point to determine the exact reason for this kill, but as town we should still look into

all

of the evidence.

[eagerSnake]

I didn't say impossible to get anything and you already know that.

I said

difficult or impossible

to determine the

exact reason.

As Town we usually never know exact anything... so does that mean we should throw everything out that we can't be 100% sure of? In that case we're throwing out

everything.

Again, only scum would want us to think that way.

[eagerSnake]

Look at who was whiteknighting/townreading SirCakez and look for fights that look TvS (or TvT) where SirCakez is involved.

How can you tell what is TvT and what is TvS?

[eagerSnake]

Why would Creature apologize for voting someone he believes is scum?

[eagerSnake]

What's LQ's VC at

[eagerSnake]

So he's at l-2... consider this an intent to vote LQ at L-1. I just don't want atm hammering again without hearing from LQ'S side first

[eagerSnake]

Creature why are you so scummy

[eagerSnake]

Reads List:

Town:
crazycrabman
Creature

Town Lean:
eagerSnakes

Null:
atm487
DotW

Scum Lean:
Dwlee

I think LQ put his scumbuddy in the null spot to avoid associations.

I think LQ might put his scumbuddy as town and Creature would see this mistake and try to throw us off the trail.

[eagerSnake]

eagerSnake

What's happening with you?

What do you mean?

[eagerSnake]

And what was your result LQ?

[eagerSnake]

LicketyQuickety

Result?

You should already know the result...

[eagerSnake]

eagerSnake

What's happening with you?

What do you mean?

The way you started accusing me.

I thought you might be scum...

[eagerSnake]

Why would you investigate Creature, LQ?

[eagerSnake]

Idk why I was thinking that reads list was from yesterday..

[eagerSnake]

So with two claimed cops what do we do now

[eagerSnake]

If I'm not mistaken we don't lose with a mislynch here

[eagerSnake]

You have to choose one of us. If you are town, then throw the game and vote with LQ. If you wish to have a 4v1 chance, vote with me.

Fair enough. I know I'm the Cop so:

VOTE: crazycrabman

You just said it was a gambit, and I'm town. Why would you want to lynch a town member?

Well, if its not a gambit, you have to be Scum. Simple as that.

Ccm why did you investigate LQ?

[eagerSnake]

Null just like LQ'S

[eagerSnake]

I have to believe Ccm here his intentions seem more honest than LQ here I think

[eagerSnake]

We must ask ourselves would ccm out himself like that as scum when he is "confirmed" town

[eagerSnake]

We must ask ourselves would ccm out himself like that as scum when he is "confirmed" town

he's prolly banking on just that; that he is "confirmed".

I don't think "confirmed town" scum!ccm would draw the attention to himself like that when he doesn't need to.

[eagerSnake]

Well I'm pretty certain it's Dwlee99 and LQ

[eagerSnake]

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

[eagerSnake]

Weird because I've been thinking LQ is scum as far back as I can remember... idk why you would say I'm buddying him? That's suspicious...

[eagerSnake]

I'm fairly confident in my town reads on SirCakez, atm487, and crazycrabman. I have some doubt of DotWs and Creatures alignment. And more doubt of tojam, dwlee9, and LQ.

TBH I'm almost sure tojam will be lynched so I'm trying to figure out who his partner is if he shows up scum, or who the scum team is should he show up town.

This was my first read list lol but I had suspicion on LQ even long before that

[eagerSnake]

So if tojam turns scum then his partner should be either LQ or DotW.
If tojam flips town then scum will still be either LQ or DotW, with the addition of Creature or Dwlee9.

Sound about right? Or could Dwlee9 possibly be scum with tojam?

Still feel this way but I feel more confident about Dwlee99 being LQ'S partner now

[eagerSnake]

I really don't like how Dwlee99 moved from townlean on LQ to scumlean on LQ between posts 392-492 with not much from LQ in that range and no explanation for why the change from Dwlee99... regardless of how he explains it now that I've specifically pointed it out, it's the fact that it happened in the first place. Also the other things I've mentioned.

[eagerSnake]

Give it up LQ, you might as well just tell us who your buddy is.

[eagerSnake]

Dwlee99s recent posts strike town for me (I've heard someone else say that before, I think it was creature, leading me to also reaffirm my belief of Creature being town as well) which leads me to trust him on this atm487 being scum thing, gotta look into this more..

[eagerSnake]

Idk though, Dwlee99, atm487 just doesn't strike me as scum... seems like all the evidence is just coincidental/circumstantial evidence.. I could be wrong though as I'm still tired, drinking my coffee still as I read these posts lol

[eagerSnake]

If we lynch LQ and he is Mafia Goon, then could a roleblocker still roleblock AND kill if he is the only mafia member left alive?

[eagerSnake]

CCM why did you not investigate me if you are sure I'm scum?

[eagerSnake]

I'm not sure you're scum. You're one of my possibilities for LQ's partner. I'm becoming a little less sure that you are because I doubt you would attack LQ so hard with only a few votes in. I didn't investigate you because I wanted to clear all doubt from my mind that LQ was scum. With that in mind, I could focus my efforts on Dwlee, who I was pretty sure would be scum after tojam flipped town.

I posted my whole board about possibilities yesterday but i'll quote it again.

Ok, so here's my spiel before the night.

If Tojam Is Scum

Town: {Creature, Dwlee}
Townlean: {Sircakez}
Null: {LQ, Atm}
Scumlean: {eagersnakes, Dotw}
Scum: {}

If Tojam is Town

Town:{}
Townlean:{Creature, Dwlee, DotW}
Null:{Sircakez, LQ, Atm}
Scumlean:{eagersnakes}
Scum:{}

This is all going off vibes because vibes are all we got, besides the nightkill. I include in the "vibes" category things like post content, length, frequency, and wording. Vibes and the nightkill, when used together, are all we need to find the scum, if we feel deep enough. I'll work on a post about possible teams after the night, if we are indeed lynching tojam withing the next few days.

CCM.. you had me as the only scumlean if tojam turned town.. and also as scumlean if tojam was scum.. scumlean on both... you must've been sure I was sucm.

[eagerSnake]

If this is about why I investigated LQ, I believe I already stated that.

It wasn't exactly "why (you) investigated LQ" it was more of "Why didn't you investigate eagerSnake?" I think I see your reasoning now, though.

[eagerSnake]

Not that I agree with your reasoning, FTR. I think you should've investigated who you thought was the most scummy

[eagerSnake]

So we lynch LQ today:If he flips scum, we lynch atm487 and DotW (preferably in that order).If he flips cop, we lynch CCM tomorrow and Dwlee99 next day.What do you think?

Who are you asking?

Not that I agree with your reasoning, FTR. I think you should've investigated who you thought was the most scummy

I disagree, you should give preference to who you're having difficulty to read but that gives a lot of information.

What do you mean "that gives a lot of information?"

[eagerSnake]

If we lynch LQ and he is Mafia Goon, then could a roleblocker still roleblock AND kill if he is the only mafia member left alive?

Did anyone answer this yet?

[eagerSnake]

And I'm not sure about lynching atm487 tomorrow.. I'm in a very difficult spot on that..

[eagerSnake]

If we lynch LQ and he is Mafia Goon, then could a roleblocker still roleblock AND kill if he is the only mafia member left alive?

Did anyone answer this yet?

Yes, but if there's a roleblocker it means there's a doctor too.

Either way I would want a doctor because we can win by tomorrow.

That's way different compared to what I'm used to... usually one can only do one or the other action on the chat mafia I used to play on.. this makes things difficult

[eagerSnake]

Well, but the roleblocker can roleblock AND kill in the same night here.

Wow that's just too much action for one person surely someone would notice the guy at night doing all this killing and blocking

[eagerSnake]

No I don't think we will if we are correct in who is scum

[eagerSnake]

Personally idc about a shorter day if we know who's scum. D1 I didn't want to rush because we really didn't know anything. Is that good play?

[eagerSnake]

How has my play been this game?

[eagerSnake]

Well, gg atm487. Hope you get to try out being town in your next game.

[eagerSnake]

Can we vote to lynch 2 people in one day pls and save an innocent from death. Atm487 and LQ are obvscum here and neither should see the light of day tomorrow

Atm487 I think you played well. You had me convinced for a while, but the other townspeople with more experience seemed to know you were scum, so I kinda took their word for it since I was pretty sure they were town and they had no reason to fake a scumread.

[eagerSnake]

Except Atm487, you need to stick it out to the endgame. Don't ever give up, even when we are saying we know you are scum. I had no idea you were scum but I just acted like I did to see how you would react. If you would've kept trying to prove you're town you could've convinced me to (maybe) vote Dwlee99 tomorrow

[eagerSnake]

I'm guessing you don't want to play another newbie game, that's what I signed up for. I figure I should at least play two newbie games before /inning another game even though I don't think it's a requirement

[eagerSnake]

Well Zaicon should be around any time now. Again, because this may be the last time I able to talk, don't hesitate to leave a comment in my wiki!

Hopefully we can talk after the game for at least 24 hrs before it's locked

[eagerSnake]

Interesting game though.

Yeah, I guess we applied too much pressure?

[eagerSnake]

I was suspicious of LQ because associations with tojam aswell. Nothing redeemed you from that. The way you were acting about the tojam lynch didn't sync with anyone else which was scummy. Also PoE you didn't make yourself look town enough for me so other players had higher chances of being town putting you on the top of the list.

[eagerSnake]

I Def enjoyed this game, though. It took all my brainpower to connect the dots here. I hope and look forward to playing with all of you again soon.

[eagerSnake]

Well I do invite all of you to play Xyl's chat mafia while we wait for the next game if you don't know how to get there you can pm me

[eagerSnake]

tojam2

I believe the main reason you got lynched was because of your inactivity. ICs are expected to be more participative as they know better.

I don't think people were even considering his IC status due to the level of content and activity without V/LA flag

[eagerSnake]

Nonetheless, the game was a success because I can't wait to play my next game#