Mini 1800 - Game Over

[Firebringer]

Then it kind of sounds like a policy lynch off him being not really playing the game.
I am not 100% agains that, but I would like something substantial.

You agree with my initial thoughts he was kind of being maybe too friendly with players in the beginning phase (again could be nothing), but things like when a player replace out being extremely nice I find scum do more often then town (Kind of terrible reasoning).

Meh, I might have to read everything >.>>

[MathBlade]

Hey Firebringer! Thanks for replacing in. You're going to want to read Chumba and Bulge at minimum as they replaced into the same slot. Responses coming to rest now. A

[Saru]

Yes, it pretty much is a policy lynch. Would also like something more substantial, but my eye is also on the deadline.

I don't think that him being friendly in the beginning of the game when he replaces is really anything of concern. Seemed pretty genuine regardless of alignment.

[Firebringer]

Hey Firebringer! Thanks for replacing in. You're going to want to read Chumba and Bulge at minimum as they replaced into the same slot. Responses coming to rest now. A

Didn't I replace into those slots? WHy would I read my predecessor posts?

[MathBlade]

Claiming Neopolitan and crumbing vengeful makes Karnos confirmed scum to me.

It would make him confscum to me

if karnos crumbed vengeful.

I don't believe that, because Occam's Razor suggests that a hypothetical scum!karnos didn't actually crumb a role that would get him instalynched, using wording that is so unspecific I wouldn't accept it as a crumb if he did claim vengeful, only to claim a completely different role later, in a game where scum have daytalk.

469 is content. [...] they are moving towards constructive things.

469 was one of the earliest posts Johnny made. If anything, he's moving away from being constructive.
Regardless of that, I don't think 469 actually was content. It was long, sure, but almost all of it was extremely inoffensive. He townreads Mizzy, Persy, and me while scumreading Chumba, karnos, and kappy; he thinks sick's play is bad, but also that he shouldn't be lynched. Oh, and all of this is based on posts over 10 pages back.
Can you honestly say that anything in that post moved the game forward? Did anyone argue with it? Question it? Use it to back their own theories? No. It stood alone, contributing nothing but words.

It would make sense if Karnos is newb scum who didn't talk about it to anyone. But yeah that is a pretty big assumption :/ I will have to ruminate on that one.

About Johnny - No one interacting with Johnny is not anyone's fault but our own. You're saying the post didn't move anything forward but very few of these posts actually are. Trying to get reads out of people has been extremely painful (like Masq). A post's worth is not measured by how many interactions but how people react to it. The fact very few people poked at it, town or scum, probably means that the majority of the scum reads are not scum but the majority of the town reads are probably town. A player is not measured by how many posts they make or how many words but by the actions evoked.

[MathBlade]

Okay, not much really in that quick go through of iso.
The things I could see being him scum were his actions regarding other players which seemed kind of buddy/extremely friendly attitude, at least in the beginning, it kind of drops off a little with some apathetic attitute later in the day.

That oculd just be player/mood at the time, but it kind of seems actually scummy. I could hammer this.
Anyone else want to go into that?

@Mod do we get anymore extensions or is the deadline correct in vc

Because here? I thought you were doing your slot's ISO or did you mean Johnny?

[Masquerade]

Hi Fire!

I think it's obvious he's talking about Johnny, math..

[MathBlade]

I miss context sometimes. I am working on it though.

Speaking of working on things where are your reads?

[Masquerade]

Throughout my iso.

[Firebringer]

Math why did you think I should be reading predecessor posts?
BTW HI!!!!!! (again lol)

Yeah, I am not liking my own reasoning on Johnny 100%. Ill have to reread him.
Any guys you want me to ISO either of you?

[Masquerade]

Karnos.

[MathBlade]

Gather them up into a post for me as reads change Masq. Thought it was obvious about that.

Because it is standard SOP for me to read the posts of the slot I replace into at least. The entire game if it is short enough.

Read mine and Karnos's please. Karnos's play is critical to reads IMO.

[MathBlade]

Driving home be back in an hour or so.

[Masquerade]

Why do you want Fire to read you? If you're town, why do you want him to waste his time getting a townread on you when he should be figuring out whether to hammer Johnny or fire up a new wagon?
I'm not putting my reads into one post. Why did you stop voting me btw? Why is Magna a better wagon for you?

[MathBlade]

Why do you want Fire to read you? If you're town, why do you want him to waste his time getting a townread on you when he should be figuring out whether to hammer Johnny or fire up a new wagon?
I'm not putting my reads into one post. Why did you stop voting me btw? Why is Magna a better wagon for you?

I want Fire to read me so he can determine I am town and where I am coming from. I have nothing to be afraid of from it and I would want him to read the whole game but I think mine and Karnos provide the most light into today.

So I take it you are dodging the question then? Don't make me CP the first post and then ask who you think is town and who you think is scum for each one. Because then if you don't answer it would be ignoring the question. Let's make life easier and you take concrete stances on people. I haven't heard your opinion on 90% (maybe a slight exaggeration) of players recently? Have your reads changed? I want everyone's reads to be clear. Why are you scared of putting them down?

Are you reading my posts? Magna wasn't reading mine and just grasping at straws to try to say things were scummy. That is why they got the vote. So much lack of reading....

We are screwed if people do not read the fucking thread. Seriously. Like Claudia in Warehouse 13 (RTFM or RTFT in this case)

Magna is a better wagon for all of us. 1) Because not on a town read of mine 2) Because he isn't reading with intent to understand. He is cherry picking. 3) Because Johnny seems to be a counter wagon to Karnos and a policy lynch.

[MechaGoomba]

Math apparently wasn't trying to reaction test with that "read your predecessors" remark but, if it was a reaction test, Fire gave the best response possible.

I'd be perfectly fine with Fire rereading MathBlade, given that they're the second most viable wagon; if he decides Johnny doesn't look scummy enough, he'll want to be able to evaluate Math. We do have a deadline extension, so there is some time, though I would really rather not cut it too close.
I don't think Fire should ISO karnos. Yes, he is important to understanding how the day went, but for reads, seeing how others reacted is much more important. ISOing karnos mostly just helps read karnos, and that can wait until night, given that there isn't the will to lynch karnos regardless.

I think mine and Karnos provide the most light into today.

Yours because you're town and also correct about everything; karnos's because he's scum and we should lynch him even though you're not voting him.
You're tunneling karnos so hard that, even after you realize he's unlynchable today, you can't make the game about anything but you vs. him.
What makes Magna a better one off vanity vote than karnos, exactly? I mean, it's pretty clear you still think karnos is the ultrascum.

Magna is a better wagon for all of us. [...] Because Johnny seems to be a counter wagon to Karnos

When you say Johnny is a counterwagon to karnos, you mean that scum pushed the Johnny wagon to defend their buddy karnos, right? I mean, given that you're saying Johnny is town in that statement, there's no other way to read that. A wagon on town deliberately built up to counter a lynch on town seems rather pointless.

In other words, you're assuming karnos is scum so you can justify lynching someone who isn't karnos.
Please; get over karnos already. You've already removed your vote; surely you must be able to remove your focus as well, even just a tiny bit?

[MathBlade]

Jesus Christ Meccha wtf is your deal? Why the hell are you so pissed that I am reading Karnos as scum? I did as you asked and assumed Karnos is town for that hypothetical but that was all it was. If you expect me to change my play because of your hissy fit you are surely mistaken.

You get pissed at me for thinking Karnos is scum, yet doing the townie thing in trying to get my scum reads lynched. I don't see anyway Karnos is town. I just don't. The thread decided to worship the allmighty site meta that says "Don't lynch an UnCC'd PR day one". I don't subscribe to that. So since Karnos hasn't done anything to merit a town read they don't get one. Therefore since the thread will not lynch my top scum read I must poke and prod for the remaining scum.

If Karnos became a valid wagon my vote would be on them in a heartbeat. Magna is not a vanity vote. Classifying it as such is misrep. They are blatantly not read posts. They are making no efforts and scum hunting and just throwing up words. Misrepresenting people's posts and just overall bad play. The fact they are probably aligned with Karnos is icing on the cake. Magna's posts are fucking terrible.

My focus is removed from Karnos. I am not screaming for Karnos's lynch every ten seconds. I am, however, allowed to respectfully disagree with how everyone is in essence ignoring 3/4s of the day for a fucking policy lynch. If you think Johnny is town, post a better case than OMG lurker. Because lurking is not alignment indicative. The fact they were on and tried to open themselves up but no one was here probably speaks to a timezone difference. If you are wanting to lynch them as your top scumread when we have had multiple extensions then I would question whether we are reading the same thread.

You can think I am a stuck up asshole who has a pole up her ass but I am entitled to my reads. And I do not change them based on someone having a temper tantrum. As I said earlier until Karnos earns a town read from me, I will read him as scum. Period. They can claim their shit don't stink but that is all it is. A claim. This site meta is so fucked up it is ridiculous.

[Dierfire]

@MechaGoomba

There's enough here that I need to ask whether there's a good reason for MathBlade, as Mafia, to keep such focus on karnos and avoid the wagon on JohnnyFarrar.

Hmm. Well, MathBlade started making giant posts once the Johnny wagon was picking up speed; before that, their posting was reasonably restrained. Could be a sign of panic?
On the other hand, having the only two players who are under serious suspicion as scumbuddies seems far too convenient.

I agree. To clarify: having already noted that JohnnyFarrar would make a good partner for karnos, I'm disturbed by the way that MathBlade treats them differently--if all three are Mafia, I don't see a reason for MathBlade to be on the karnos wagon and not on the JohnnyFarrar wagon.

@MathBlade

I have a question about your approach to JohnnyFarrar. You seem to be making many reads based on associations with karnos on the presumption that karnos is Mafia. Given this assumption, why are you not suspicious of JohnnyFarrar, who vocalized support for lynching karnos but failed to cast a vote there (or anywhere else)?

[MathBlade]

@MechaGoomba

There's enough here that I need to ask whether there's a good reason for MathBlade, as Mafia, to keep such focus on karnos and avoid the wagon on JohnnyFarrar.

Hmm. Well, MathBlade started making giant posts once the Johnny wagon was picking up speed; before that, their posting was reasonably restrained. Could be a sign of panic?
On the other hand, having the only two players who are under serious suspicion as scumbuddies seems far too convenient.

I agree. To clarify: having already noted that JohnnyFarrar would make a good partner for karnos, I'm disturbed by the way that MathBlade treats them differently--if all three are Mafia, I don't see a reason for MathBlade to be on the karnos wagon and not on the JohnnyFarrar wagon.

@MathBlade

I have a question about your approach to JohnnyFarrar. You seem to be making many reads based on associations with karnos on the presumption that karnos is Mafia. Given this assumption, why are you not suspicious of JohnnyFarrar, who vocalized support for lynching karnos but failed to cast a vote there (or anywhere else)?

Because that is not Johnny's style. We use votes as tools to help pressure and poke and figure out alignment. His vote is like an atom bomb. The world listens when he does. Go look at Johnny's ISO. It is brief quips and quads the entire time. I see nothing different than his town meta except laziness. And laziness while super annoying is not alignment indicative. If Karnos is scum I don't see a second wagon popping up on another scum in 16 posts. I don't see that happening.

[Wingback]

I'll compress all my thoughts over the past few days into a single wall so make sure you read it in its entirety. I'll put in section headings to this so it doesn't become a huge long unwieldy mess and hopefully people actually read.

Section 1: Impressions of Johnny's meta
Section 2: Johnny's read on me
Section 3: MagnaofIllusion's Johnny wagon analysis and associative read on me
Section 4: Dierfire is a scumbag (please read this)
Section 5: Some miscellaneous stuff

Section 1: Impressions of Johnny's meta

I went over some of Johnny's past games. The first towngame I looked at was Mini 1782 where he replaced in and was immediately engaged from the get-go. He didn't bother reading older stuff and preferred to interact with and question players in real time. In contrast, in Newbie 1537 (also town), he takes a much more thorough approach catching up fully. Also read a few towngames where he was playing from the start and he's always active and questions people. Scumgames are more interesting. Twin Trap was a game he was in from the start and spent quite some time in catch up mode although never completely checks out like he did here. In the Third Fortnight which was a special 14 day game, he was there from the start but sometimes falls behind but makes an effort to get current and drive wagons on town away from his partner. Many at endgame commended him for his scumplay.

My impression of his play is that he's more naturally engaged as town but when he's scum, he doesn't just sit by and get lynched. He's definitely the kind that would put effort into digging himself out of holes that he might be in and coming through for his team. This game is completely atypical for him so that lends credence to the fact that he was genuinely busy whatever his alignment. I still find his confidence in the Karnos push in his catchup wall to be scummy. See below for some of the reasons I don't like the content that he did put it since his catchup wall. But he's not my strongest scumread. That honor goes to Dierfire and if we can get a wagon there, I'll switch over. Also willing to go with Mathblade and I found some interesting things in a scumgame of theirs that I need to finish reading.

Section 2: Johnny's read on me

If Wingback were newbie scum he'd still be at my throat, not continuing to pressure others. They've both got pretty strong d1 townreads.

I don't understand how you started townreading me. The timeline doesn't fit.

• In Post 674 is your first mention of me where you said I was hard to read.
  
• In between those posts, my Post 685, Post 687, Post 689, Post 694, Post 699, Post 702, and Post 708 were all focused on you.
  
• In Post 723, you started townreading me.
  
• I pressured Dierfire (Post 730)
  after
  you said you were townreading me.
  
• Then in Post 755, you give the reasoning in the quote above. That looks like you made it up after the fact.

Section 3: MagnaofIllusion's Johnny wagon analysis and associative read on me

Given what has been presented against Johnny I don’t think scum stays away from that wagon as I am seeing if he is Town.

I'm not following why this is a reason that Johnny is scum. You are saying that if Johnny is town, scum would join the wagon. But if Johnny is town, your remaining scumreads according to the list you posted earlier would be Karnos, The Bulge who hasn't posted in several days, and me who was already on the wagon. Possibly Mecha who you had as null but who already was on the wagon. This argument is essentially coming down to "

if Johnny was town, Karnos would have voted him.

" Were there any other players you were plausibly seeing as scum who you thought would pounce but haven't? (This bit is relevant as I'm not quite sure what part of this reasoning Dierfire found persuasive).

What is your updated analysis now that people actually have joined (Saru, qubixes) or intend to join (Dierfire) the Johnny wagon in a way that you predicted would happen if Johnny were town?

That said if karnos is Town my opinion would absolutely change for the reasons I said in my prior section – Town you defending scum karnos is feasible.

Why do you think that's more likely than me being town correctly reading Karnos as town (at that time)?

if you sort through the posts you find lots of preflip associatives, lots of relatively weak stuff buried in the walls.

I don't like MoI's overreliance on pre-flip associatives and conditional reads i.e. Karnos is scum but if he's town, then I'm scum, as well as me and Johnny not being partnered together etc. The benefits of doing this as scum are obvious - he can move onto the next read once one of his scumreads flip town. I don't know if this is how he normally scumhunts as town so I'll try and look through his games to verify when I have time.

Section 4: Dierfire is a scumbag (please read this)

I have two questions about your second point. First, do you think that the case on JohnnyFarrar (your current vote) is substantially stronger than the case on Kappy? If you say that it is I will surely ask you why. The second question is, if you feel that my case on Kappy is weak, why were you concerned (569) when I moved my vote away in 558? Some of that appears to have been a misunderstanding of my reasoning for voting for karnos, but the phrase "abandon the push on Kappy" doesn't quite sound as though you were thinking along the same lines there.

On the first question, I'm not supremely confident Johnny is scum but I do think it's a much stronger case than your case on Kappy and I've listed out the reasons why I suspect Johnny - in addition to what I already said, his overconfidence about the Karnos scumflip in his catchup wall looked fake considering he just sheeps off of other people's reasoning. His Post 693 where he weakly says he was "fine" with a Karnos lynch and "didn't have a problem with it" also doesn't match up to the "why isn't this day over yet" high-confidence stance he took on Karnos when catching up.

I don't even get why you scumread Kappy. You bring up a bunch of his early posts and basically say that his vote hopping is scummy. Nobody took anything you said seriously but you haven't asked anyone for feedback on your case. You seemed content with getting ignored until bigger wagons cropped up and then you weigh them at deadline to see which one to hop on. You weren't even going out of your way to push Karnos and you going "oh, well I don't have anything to contribute, let me look at a Karnos post to respond to" comes across like you are not really sold on what you are pushing and are just going through the motions looking like a good townie. I think that should answer your second question as well.

Wingback

was Sickofit1138. I agreed with most reads on entry in 452 (I noted the exception for the read on Mizzytastic in 494). He's been more open to what karnos was saying than I am, but the perspective sounds plausible from a Town player. The reasons given for the vote on JohnnyFarrar in 673 are essentially the same as above--a lack of helpful activity, which is easy to do as a Mafia player (reasons were given well before the vote, in 565).

I still think that I'd lynch Kappy first.

...
I'm reading most of the players voting for JohnnyFarrar as Town (of them,

I'd lynch Wingback first

).

The underlined portions together suggest that I'm your second scumread after Kappy. Yet, nothing you said about me in this quote are reasons why I'm scum and could potentially be reasons for townreading me. Apparently you agree with all my reads but one. You think my perspective on Karnos is plausible from town, my reasons for lynching Johnny are apparently not scummy to you considering you don't find it suspicious when you thought Persivul said the same thing. So, how am I your second scumread? That read looks like you saw my list of points against you and decided you'd push me but couldn't come up with any reasons why.

[MagnaofIllusion's]reasons for voting for JohnnyFarrar are good--better than most others on that wagon. While he also presents the inactivity angle in 750, he additionally noted the possible association between JohnnyFarrar and karnos in 740 and some wagon dynamics in 785). I'll call this a Town read.

See above for my analysis of wagon dynamics. I don't get why you find those reasons much stronger than the ones that I've presented. This read seems entirely arbitrary. You also misinterpret my reasons my scumreading Johnny. I quote my main reasons up until that point in Post 759.

Short summary for people who hate reading

:

• Dierfire really doesn't care about getting Kappy lynched. He's tunneling Kappy for show so he doesn't have to focus elsewhere.
  
• Never pro-actively asks anyone else what they thought when no one joined him on the wagon.
  
• Total lack of bloodthirsty hunger for getting Kappy lynched. Just "oh, I suppose I could respond to Kappy, I have nothing else to do."
  
• I think if Kappy was one read among many, his passiveness would make sense but for most of the game, Kappy was his only scumread.

Section 5: Some miscellaneous stuff

I have never done this 1v1-thing before but now I get why people want to. I want to prove math is wrong SO BADLY I want to flip for it.

This came completely out of the blue. Barely anyone has expressed any interest in lynching you and you are in no danger. On the other hand, Mathblade has attracted considerable suspicion as well as a wagon. Why would you want to flip rather than just lynch Mathblade? Why do you think seeing you flip town will suddenly cause everyone to lynch Mathblade when you could just as well be wrong? This looks like something that

seems

townie on the surface but doesn't really make sense in the context of this game so I want to know exactly what you were thinking here. I see you answered in Post 812 but I still don't get why you want to allow yourself to be lynched just to show that Math's case "blows."

Johnny Farrar is a town read based upon meta I have read and the current events in the thread.

I commented on this at the beginning of this post. How are you reaching the conclusion that Johnny is town based on meta? There has not been a single game I've seen where he plays like this as town or scum. Edit: I see you linked a game in your Post 834. Yeah, I read that. He was a whole lot more engaged, persistently questioned players and stayed current with the game. He may not have re-read anything but there's a world of difference between that game as town and this one. I don't see how you are reasonably concluding that he's town.

@Johnny

, do you think Mathblade's conclusion is reasonable given this game is atypical for you?

@Saru and Persivul

, you were both very active at the beginning of the game. Is there a reason that you have slowly become less and less active? This goes especially for Persivul since he seems fairly active elsewhere, but also Saru whose seems to be following the thread and responding to posts directed at him or to hop onto a wagon but nowhere near the same level of engagement as before. @Saru, if you are unhappy with the lynch on Johnny and are equating it with a policy-lynch that you are only on because of the deadline, why didn't you try to influence the game over the past few days by pushing it in a direction you liked? Do you have any actual scumreads?

[Saru]

@Saru and Persivul

, you were both very active at the beginning of the game. Is there a reason that you have slowly become less and less active? This goes especially for Persivul since he seems fairly active elsewhere, but also Saru whose seems to be following the thread and responding to posts directed at him or to hop onto a wagon but nowhere near the same level of engagement as before. @Saru, if you are unhappy with the lynch on Johnny and are equating it with a policy-lynch that you are only on because of the deadline, why didn't you try to influence the game over the past few days by pushing it in a direction you liked? Do you have any actual scum reads?

To answer your activity question: yes, I was active in the game early on mainly because I felt like putting my reads out there and then the whole thing with Persivul and eventually Mecha. After that, I started feeling mixed on the whole Karnos wagon and put some of that in my posts and whatnot. After that, my activity dropped. This is mainly due to not having to really respond to any questions(such as yours) and having some trouble following the whole fight between Math/Magna/Masq. This will explain my lack of scum reads(more on that in a moment). I felt like posting something similar to what Mecha did in 849, basically trying to tell people to focus on who to actually lynch rather than just having a crazy wall-filled back and forth due to the deadline, but then Mecha pretty much did it. It doesn't seem like it's had much effect anyways.

As for Johnny, yes I don't like the lynch on him and do think it is policy. I am unhappy with it, but at the same time, I guess I did play a part in that by choosing not to influence the game in a different direction while Johnny was being voted upon. And now I feel like most people aren't going to unvote Johnny at this point. However, the reason why I haven't tried to influence the game recently is because my biggest scum read up to now has been Kappy. If you look at my ISO, my scum reads progressed something like this: Sick -> Persivul -> Kappy. Karnos is not someone I'd put in that list because I stayed neutral on him after reading him as scummy. Anyways, so as Kappy was my biggest scum read, I didn't really see the point of trying to influence people to vote for him as that's a long shot and also because he's V/LA, which, while I hate it, real life does come in the way. I'd much rather Kappy come back and defend himself if a wagon ever did form on him(going back to my hammer/defense point in 256) rather than just try to get people to finish him off while he was gone. This is in stark contrast to Johnny who seems to not really care about whether he's about to be lynched or not. Yes, he does ask if anyone has questions of him, but that seems forced. Similar to Kappy in 389. I'd much rather see him contribute by putting out actual scum reads instead of making the excuse that he's only good at town reads. I just don't see Johnny coming in and trying to legitimately defend himself against the lynch whereas Kappy has shown(imo) that he is atleast capable of that. That's why I don't really care if someone hammers right now. I wouldn't say the same if it were Kappy.

As for my scum reads right now, I don't have any real strong ones. This is mainly due to not having a perfect grasp on the last couple of pages as explained above. Although, I do feel like most of the last couple of pages haven't really done much to move the game along. While it could be good stuff to look back on for reference in D2, D3, etc., as it stands right now, I feel like they were mostly a waste of time.

If I had to point out something I felt was suspicious, it would definitely be the Johnny wagon. That whole thing just seems so wrong. Too fast with too little reasoning, especially after the Karnos wagon disbanded. I understand why some town might vote him, due to frustration over the deadline and his lack of defense, but it also seems so easy for the mafia to just jump onto and run away with. Which reminds me of 380 by qubixes who said that scum might get caught lazily hopping onto a wagon. That seems ironic as qubixes unvoted Karnos and then lazily hopped onto the Johnny wagon with the shitty excuse that "I reread the post again...it actually doesn't look so good after all." This is 754. Hilariously enough, he says in 747 that he doesn't feel strong on anyone besides Karnos. His unvote on Karnos didn't seem all too suspect, but his vote on Johnny seems so fucking sheep. Lazy. One could almost say....scummy.

So there you have it, no strong scum reads, but qubixes' vote on Johnny seemed scummy. Using his own logic too.

[Masquerade]

Are you reading my posts? Magna wasn't reading mine and just grasping at straws to try to say things were scummy. That is why they got the vote. So much lack of reading....

I'm reading them for the most part. I have issues concentrating so very long posts I just zone out no matter how much I want to read them. I didn't ask you why you voted Magna, I want to know why Magna is a better vote than me. The thing is, we're nearing deadline and you seem to be looking for a viable wagon. To me it seems useless to keep votehopping at this stage because it makes you look not certain of your read and that's how people don't join your preferred wagon.

@Mecha: A lot of people commented on Karnos so even though we're not lynching Karnos, reading him would be a help in determining other players' alignments, I agree it doesn't have to necessarily be before the lynch but if Fire wants to understand why people take certain stances it would definitely help.

This came completely out of the blue. Barely anyone has expressed any interest in lynching you and you are in no danger. On the other hand, Mathblade has attracted considerable suspicion as well as a wagon. Why would you want to flip rather than just lynch Mathblade? Why do you think seeing you flip town will suddenly cause everyone to lynch Mathblade when you could just as well be wrong? This looks like something that seems townie on the surface but doesn't really make sense in the context of this game so I want to know exactly what you were thinking here. I see you answered in Post 812 but I still don't get why you want to allow yourself to be lynched just to show that Math's case "blows."

Because I was sure that I wouldn't get lynched before mathblade. I wanted to show how sure I was of my read on him. + another reason I won't get into now.

[karnos]

Since I haven't seen anyone else do it:

Intent to hammer.

I've said why in my last few posts, I won't let the day end with a no lynch.

[qubixes]

@Saru: So you don't like the Johnny wagon and think I'm scummy. Yet, you say you don't care if someone hammers?

I was talking about post-flip associations in 380. But you already know Johnny will flip town, maybe? As I said, lazily hopping on another wagon only makes sense (is AI) if I'm scum hopping onto a town wagon. You're also aware that if you apply the same logic to yourself, you're also scum?

And yes, I didn't feel very strong about anyone really. Even on Johnny I didn't feel strong (because of gut read). So what? Finding more than one scum on Day 1 is hard, period.

Actually

UNVOTE: Johnny
VOTE: Saru

I don't really see the point of pushing you too much to be honest. Because it feels like a wasted effort when you're town read by almost everyone (afaik), and it's also too close to the deadline.

Thinking about the lynch. I don't like a math lynch. I also think that Wingback is probably town, even though I strongly disagree on Karnos. I think Dierfire is a decent lynch at this point. I think his ISO reads quite soft to me. I summarized it a long time ago in 488, which is why I had asked Wingback about his town read at the time. As I said, I still think he makes an excellent scum partner for Karnos too, though he could do the same if karnos turned out to be town.

VOTE: Dierfire

[qubixes]

@masquerade: At some point you said that there might be something suspicious in my ISO, but you would check to make sure. What were you looking for?