Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)

[qubixes]

Fold

[Persivul]

Bet 50

[Infinity 324]

Fold

[Persivul]

So Lane, you had garbage, and went all in when there wasn't much to win, but significant number of people left to call. Why? Again, I could get that if you pleaded ignorance about poker, but you then acted as if you're pretty knowledgeable about poker.

MM's call with a straight is of course reasonable. If the chip dumping theory has merit, it has to be based on lane's action alone. Although as noted lane claims poker knowledge but made a bad play, he does goof off at times, and its not like this is for real money.

[Something_Smart]

Fold

Does anyone here know what Persivul's scumgame looks like?

[lane0168]

Because I didn't think anyone would call having no draws. I thought the best hand might be a pair, but that wouldn't be enough to call all in I wouldn't think. I wasnt thinking about the wilds being in play therefore pairs are guaranteed. Without wilds, the mm has A high. Not enough to call

[lane0168]

I don't like this mm wagon, and I'm the one that started it Often, the difference between noobscum and noobtown is that noobscum in general is very careful to avoid doing anything scummy, and tries to avoid engagement. Since his first few posts, I felt like mm has been rather open about his actions and stances and has definitely not tried to avoid engagement.

So people agree with this?

[lane0168]

Do*

[lane0168]

And so theres now three reasons the mm didn't wait to call. He thought it was a scum gambit, so wanted to put an end to that. With a straight, if that's true, he'd wait for the other scum. He just would.

Then he came up with he just thought he needed 1000 for the highest priced abilities... Where did that number even come from?!

Then he added that he was saving other Townies from throwing their money away. He has a straight. Honestly why would he care about other Townies throwing their money to him if he knows he town? Why would he care of he was scum? He wouldn't either way. This is a contrived excuse.

[lane0168]

Here's the thing, there's motivation to wait if he is scum or town. So the fact he didn't wait isn't concerning as much as all the new reasons he's coming up with for not waiting

[lane0168]

I guess it could just be nervous noobtown?

[qubixes]

@lane: Yes, I agree with the fact that his quick call isn't scummy, but his productivity in creating reasons is.

I don't agree with Infity's assessment that he is noobtown, because he isn't trying to avoid engagements. I mean, he hasn't avoided them, but on the other hand it was also hard to avoid given the amount of pressure that was exerted on him, i.e. it's mainly defense (even his read list).

I think it's possible he is nervous noobtown, but I'm not convinced yet. Either way, I feel like I have drilled the point enough, and I should start rereading (him and others).

[The MM]

I guess it could just be nervous noobtown?

It could. Emphasis on nervous.
I do not exactly like your extended pushing on me since you're really just reassessing points that have already been stressed.

Then he came up with he just thought he needed 1000 for the highest priced abilities... Where did that number even come from?!

2 times the base money. Plus you can't really chide me about not reading the rules -- you didn't bother about the fact that jokers exist because the mod needed 55 cards to hand 5 cards to 11 players.

Then he added that he was saving other Townies from throwing their money away. He has a straight. Honestly why would he care about other Townies throwing their money to him if he knows he town? Why would he care of he was scum? He wouldn't either way. This is a contrived excuse.

1- Persivul stressed it enough: people with too much money are lynch-bait. I also have remaining symptoms from my last game where I was like lynch bait for the entirety of day 2 and even a while into day 3 until the other people started pulling their weight (and I started not trying to -- obvious reasons), so I'm not trying to drag those sniper scopes on my face and wasting one day for a town that would love to lynch me into oblivion. You in particular have seemed very forthcoming in regards to lynching me, perhaps that backs my soft scumread on you? I think you're just being a simpleton here. That's an insult, yes, but I'm stating what I think of your recent behavior.

---

I'm having mixed feelings about Persivul though. He's making sense on the front (can't read people well, telling you from the start) and the fact that Something_Smart doesn't know what his scumplay is makes me afraid of the possibility. Also, I think his posts look a lot more measured and less emotional than other people's. I don't have a scumread on him though.

[Something_Smart]

Time for a few questions.

Infinity, are you still townreading Persivul?

Persivul, now you understand why MM called. Do you understand why he kept changing his story about why he called? Do you think that says anything about his alignment?

I don't mind BBT's vote. I don't like his refusal to explain. (It's very BBT I know but that vote could have served multiple different purposes and not knowing which is keeping me from understanding his motivation.) BBT, are you still refusing to explain?

MM (refer to 90), why wasn't 42 a big leap to take? Did the idea occur to you when you called? Why was my post (16) a "candid dream", and how did that not stand out to you?

Still to MM, when did you realize the top tier abilities were $1250 and not $1000? Why did you obviously invent new reasons to back up your call after the fact? What is your read on lane? Do you have any reads stronger than the ones expressed in 90?

MoI, do you think lane's alignment is related to his apparent poker knowledge? (You seemed to in 107.) Do you understand why RC says your arguments are poor in 107?

RC, what is your read on Persivul? You've gone to great lengths to argue that lane's bet was non-alignment-indicative, do you have a read on him outside of that? (Especially given that his terrible hand was revealed.)

Re:

Given your poor arguments in 107, it stands to reason that you'll now comb back over reasonable questions in an attempt to frame them in a negative light. I'm asking questions, not creating a false dichotomy. The proper answer here is, "I would've called, but my hand was poor". That's all that needed to be said. Instead of answering me and seeing how I reacted, you took it upon yourself to assume these questions were meant as a trap.

He responded how you wanted. What issue do you have with him pointing out his objections with those questions? What was the point of the last two questions?

FA, why is lane bullshitting to cover his bad play scummy? We're playing two games here, he screwed up in one game in a way that only slightly affected the other. Do you think lane's play makes sense as scum if MM isn't his partner?

[Persivul]

Persivul, now you understand why MM called.

Yep.

Do you understand why he kept changing his story about why he called?

Nope.

Do you think that says anything about his alignment?

It's scummy. If he had just said

I had a big hand and got excited when I saw the all-in and called

, that would make more sense.

[lane0168]

"While I'll probably be a relatively rare sight, let me still introduce myself as far as my mafia tastes go. I have a tendency for volatile setup ideas despite still looking for the play-to-win attitude I've rarely seen. I also prefer my days and nights fast, and my communication all cool and nice (even though I'm far from being the nicest person on Earth). I'm also prone to bouts of rage rage when faced with what I deem to be idiotic play. Still, I'm a quite bad player seeking personal improvement as well as gameplay improvement.
Oh, if anyone asks, wgeurts (aka MagnificentLad) shoved me here."

The mm's introduction. It doesn't seem like he's a newbie at all. Just new here. He even has preferences for what games he likes and self metas as a little ragey.

I'm not a fan of non noobies letting people think that are.

In his first game here he had no problem scum reading people and voting all around. Here, he's got everyone at null with some leans.

Its not about reading the rules. It's not crazy to not think about wilds. It is crazy to come up with arbitrary prices for abilities out of thin air. You'll notice I also didn't make it a big deal when 2 people thought there was 13 people. That's not a crazy assumption be cause 13 is a pretty regular number in a mini. No wilds in poker is pretty regular. Poker in mafia and buying abilities is not regular, so making assumptions on the prices wouldn't happen. You made that up.You based your reasoning off of setups that you run. And yet you let people assume you're a noobie if it benefits you.

[lane0168]

Wait, is that a fourth reason? You didn't want to be lynch bait??!! You called early because you thought you'd have enough for the highest priced ability, but you also called early because you didn't want TOO much money and become lynch bait?!

Holy shit how many more reasons are you going to come up with?

[lane0168]

@the mm, why are you letting people think you're a noobie, when you're not

[Infinity 324]

MM making excuses as a response to being attacked for a mistake is natural both as scum and town.

Infinity, are you still townreading Persivul?

Yes, still the gut read.

[Persivul]

MM making excuses as a response to being attacked for a mistake is natural both as scum and town.

Giving the true reason is natural as town. Making one excuse after another isn't.

[The MM]

Time for a few questions.

[...]

MM (refer to 90), why wasn't 42 a big leap to take? Did the idea occur to you when you called? Why was my post (16) a "candid dream", and how did that not stand out to you?

Still to MM, when did you realize the top tier abilities were $1250 and not $1000? Why did you obviously invent new reasons to back up your call after the fact? What is your read on lane? Do you have any reads stronger than the ones expressed in 90?

Once again, seeing lane's play as scum was nearly my first thought on that (gut feeling just said "eat him").
I referred to 16 as a candid dream because it requires you to know the scummier players, and at this point you could just be voting them. Plus, this was also imagining they wouldn't object to being taken off the wagon. This looks suboptimal in every situation it could be viable.
I realized (or rather, recalled) the top abilities were priced at $1250 when we got to the money talk after I called on lane.
Then, I didn't exactly invent new reasons, I just expressed all one by one because I reacted badly to pressure.
My read on lane more or less says he plays idiot. Whether this means he's playing dumb or just making dumb plays, it's NAI. I don't like his attempt to extend the push on me beyond what it's been so far, smells of tunnel-vision. Which makes me not like him, but once again, my personal opinion is NAI.

(I'll be using this term a lot so I can get it down, sue me.)

As far as reads go, I don't really have legit reads. Infinity looks pretty town to me, but once again I don't wanna trust myself too much on him.

PS: People misunderstand the "I called to break that" as claiming I thought this was a legit attempt at an outplay. It wasn't. Letting scum call would have been the best choice of action, it's obvious. I still broke the coin-passing. I never said I meant to do it in the most effective way, and it wouldn't have worked anyway.

---

*Ninja'd*

FFFUUUUUUUUUUUU--

@the mm, why are you letting people think you're a noobie, when you're not

I am. This is my second game with people who actually know how to play. What makes you say I'm not?

[lane0168]

Who was your other games with?

[lane0168]

I don't say you aren't. You aren't.

[Something_Smart]

Mod: I'll be V/LA until Monday. I should still have some access though.

[lane0168]

Hey Persivul. Let me see your hand. I'm bored lol