Mini 1801 - Undertale: Kill or Be Killed Mafia [Game Over!]

[thenewearth]

Votecount 1.31

Clumsy Phoenix (4)

- frog, GuiltyLion, Rory, thenewearth

[L-3]

BTD6_Maker (2)

- Parama, Creature

[L-5]

GuiltyLion (1)

- GreyICE

[L-6]

GreyICE (1)

- BTD6_Maker

[L-6]

Rory (1)

- Dunnstral

[L-6]

Not Voting (3)

- JaeReed, Clumsy Phoenix, KittenLicks

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 1 is Tuesday, June 30th at 9PM EST.

Mod Notes

None!

________________________________________

This is my town inactivity though

I like your town activity more, thanks.

[thenewearth]

In any case, you've now dropped to null. Thanks for that :v

[Dunnstral]

newearth and BTD, but I don't think they could be partners.

If he was scum I'd be bussing him hard by now :/

Lol.

Anyways I'm on a computer now

[Dunnstral]

Hey Jae! Meeting on the other side this time!

Anyway to the game:

Dunnstral/Kitty/Jae are my early townreads.

Not really liking CP.

Having a hard time getting into this game. I have no flavor knowledge and the circle weirds me out.

Note how Guiltylion is absent here for now.

Holy shit this game is hard to get into. I'm caught up, but it's hard to form solid reads here.
This is kinda where I'm at right now:

Town

KittenLicks
JaeReed
Creature
Dunnstral
-----------
Placid Bee
GuiltyLion
Pants98
Parama
GreyICE
-----------
BTD6_Maker
Clumsy Phoenix

Scum

Top block is Town, Middle block is null and lowest block is scum.

I will admit skipping Parama's posts, as reading those when catching up is a pain.

After lurking for 300 posts, more recent reads - Guiltylion is high null

VOTE: GuiltyLion

I think it might be worth pushing here. The fact that he lists Clumsy Phoenix in his scum pool and then explains why CP is not likely to be scum reads kinda weird.
I'd like to hear some explanation on his CP read.

What do you think of Rory listing Clumsy Phoenix at the top of their scum list?

It'd mean something if he weren't randomly voting me instead. As of now, his readslist is just empty words.

Also, I will reiterate that CP is a better wagon than BTD6 at this juncture and people should read the last few pages more carefully.

I am not randomly voting you. Nice attempt to discredit me.

Interaction between Rory and Guiltylion

I don't like BTD6's comment about vigs utility. It looks like he's just trying not to get shot here. I'm not really in a position to say this probably, but BTD6 not contributing looks to be intentional.

Still, I would prefer GuiltyLion or Clumsy Phoenix as today's lynch.

Town

KittenLicks
thenewearth
JaeReed
Creature
Dunnstral
----------
Parama
GreyICE
frog
----------
BTD6_Maker
GuiltyLion
Clumsy Phoenix

Scum

VOTE: Clumsy Phoenix

GuiltyLion doesn't seem to be happening today.

Wait what
Instead of pushing your scumread GuiltyLion (by the way, he went fron null to scum in a way that I can't follow), you hop onto the Clumsy Phoenix wagon

VOTE: GuiltyLion

I think it might be worth pushing here. The fact that he lists Clumsy Phoenix in his scum pool and then explains why CP is not likely to be scum reads kinda weird.
I'd like to hear some explanation on his CP read.

I found some evidence that CP may actually be town despite me disliking the vast majority of their earlier posts, so they're no longer scumread #1. I'd rather look elsewhere for now, but their early badposting is still relevant so I'm considering them outside of my town pool. Why do you find that weird?

Also, similar logic applies to you - you're voting me despite having several players lower in a scumblock in your latest reads list. Why?

There is a difference: I made a reads list, stuff happened and my reads shifted.

You made a scum pool of a number of people and then went on to say why CP was town

in the same post

. I don't think I've ever seen that happen.

Um, did I ever say he was town? Or was I replying to KL and saying the one thing that was making me doubt a scumread and want to vote elsewhere at that moment?

You're acting like this is some super scummy thing from me, but I don't see it. I'm also curious as to how you feel about voting the same person that I'm voting - do you think I am bussing my buddy CP on Day 1 here?

It would be weird if you were deliberately acting scummy.
I'm not going to go into pre-flip associations on day 1... But bussing on day 1 is possible. Do you disagree?

Over half of Rory's interactions are with Guiltylion.

So now tell me, does anyone even think Rory is town? Anyone at all?

Let's lynch him. I think both Rory and Guiltylion are mafia, Rory is the better vote between the two

[Dunnstral]

yeah I think I might see what you're getting at. If I'm right then that sucks

VOTE: Clumsy Phoenix
back here then, although I could also do Rory

Though of course you're voting Clumsy Phoenix instead.

Now I'm thinking CP/Rory/KL scumteam. Maybe GreyICE as my insurance pick.

Though of course you're voting Clumsy Phoenix instead. (and won't push on Rory too hard)

What do you think of Rory listing Clumsy Phoenix at the top of their scum list?

It'd mean something if he weren't randomly voting me instead. As of now, his readslist is just empty words.

Also, I will reiterate that CP is a better wagon than BTD6 at this juncture and people should read the last few pages more carefully.

At this moment I don't doubt some inane reason for BTD6 being town

and I say we stop wagoning people who are town and start wagoning people who are scum

greyICE you should climb out of your GL tunnel and look at how KL has been posturing about the BTD6 wagon, that most recent post included

I am like almost as close as you can get to D1 certainty that it's CP/KL/Rory at this point. Rory I'm least confident in, there might be a scum snowballing me. It's also a little strange that CP and KL are crossvoting, but then again, neither is pushing the other's lynch whatsoever so it's most likely just failed distancing.

"There might be scum snowballing me. By the way, Rory and I are voting the same person."

VOTE: GuiltyLion

I think it might be worth pushing here. The fact that he lists Clumsy Phoenix in his scum pool and then explains why CP is not likely to be scum reads kinda weird.
I'd like to hear some explanation on his CP read.

I found some evidence that CP may actually be town despite me disliking the vast majority of their earlier posts, so they're no longer scumread #1. I'd rather look elsewhere for now, but their early badposting is still relevant so I'm considering them outside of my town pool. Why do you find that weird?

Also, similar logic applies to you - you're voting me despite having several players lower in a scumblock in your latest reads list. Why?

There is a difference: I made a reads list, stuff happened and my reads shifted.

You made a scum pool of a number of people and then went on to say why CP was town

in the same post

. I don't think I've ever seen that happen.

Um, did I ever say he was town? Or was I replying to KL and saying the one thing that was making me doubt a scumread and want to vote elsewhere at that moment?

You're acting like this is some super scummy thing from me, but I don't see it. I'm also curious as to how you feel about voting the same person that I'm voting - do you think I am bussing my buddy CP on Day 1 here?

There conversations between you two feel fabricated

[GuiltyLion]

Dunnstral I'm like totally happy to vote Rory as well if that's where the day winds up, his wagon just hasn't ever been as large as CP's.

I fully agree that he's scum, but I'm not. Do you think my scumhunting elsewhere (CP, KL, pushes on Creature/BTD6/newearth to sort them) have not been genuine?

[Dunnstral]

They look good, I mostly think you're with him off of association.

Regardless of whether you're mafia, I think Rory is individually scummy anyway, and my stuff still applies as I don't think his thoughts on you make sense

[GuiltyLion]

Regardless of whether you're mafia, I think Rory is individually scummy anyway, and my stuff still applies as I don't think his thoughts on you make sense

yeah I mean I buy this, that's why I've been constantly poking him about it

let's lynch Rory first and then I will clear myself later

[GuiltyLion]

Also, with respect to this:

But their interactions with JaeReed and their theorycrafting about Toriel/Monster Kid interactions seem like something a towny would do.

I mean, why bother actively trying to figure out role interactions with your role if Monster Kid was just a fakeclaim? Especially seeing as if someone did have a role that only interacted with a Monster Kid type role (aka a VT), that role wouldn't function because they are not Monster Kid. It seems like a lot of effort for scum to go through for no real gain and some risk.

You're townreading frog, correct? So what do you think of his argument here:

Regardless, there was literally no reason for you even mention Jae and their possible character in your claim post. You didn't need to explain why you had done a particular thing; nobody was talking about it, and Jae could have seen from your claim whether Monster Kid was of relevance to his role. This is to distract from the weakness of your explanation, too; you're perfectly aware that Toriel and Monster Kid barely interact in the game, and that Toriel is about protecting generally. The link you draw between your character and Jae's character is vacuous, and it's clearly just an excuse or a cover to figure out in what way Jae's role is weak. That last part of your claim post is either an attempt at rolefishing someone to whom this is detrimental or trying to make yourself less scummy by bolstering your claim or both. I've wracked my brains and cannot see a single reason why town would do what you've done.

in which he comes to pretty much the exact opposite conclusion as you?

[Parama]

JaeReed - 515 - so yeah, putting you in the "town and do not lynch ever" pile
thenewearth - 520 - at this point, if BTD6 is town, newearth is almost 100% town too. if scum, this is null
frog - 524 - THANK YOU
BTD6 - 541 - communist vigging is not the way to go, tbh. vigs are for low-info lynches first, not the second-biggest wagon
based on page 23 alone GreyICE is town, but kind of bad at it
GreyICE - 597 - yeah, kitten's post here is proof that there is such a thing as a dumb question. (psst kitten try using ISOs)
GuiltyLion - 598 - is it just me, or does this post read like a crazy conspiracy theory? i probably should iso this guy tbh
KittenLicks - 610 - call me biased, but using 100% implies inside knowledge, like, knowing everyone's alignments or something. just, saying, don't exaggerate in mafia. and why the hell do you keep arguing with statistics. that's all you're doing. "he could be scum but STATISTICALLY he probably isn't" is an argument you can make about any player in the game. the person you are voting? statistically as likely to flip scum as BTD6. but you should have TOWNREADS and SCUMREADS and YES it is possible to form reads on a lurker. if you can put enough people in the town category that 25% will jump up to 50% or higher. this argument is so infuriating because i can't see how anyone could possibly buy into it
BTD6 - 633 - hold on, let me go get a drink so i can go spit it out all over my monitor. this post is unreal. holy hell. i am having a giggle fit over here
1. very little reason? no. about as much reason as you've been posting.
2. where is he lining up two lynches? guilty is scum based on your flip, is what he's saying. if you flip scum, guilty is his preferred lynch, the way i read it. so this is just... trying to save your own butt, ok
3. guaranteed mislynch - a thing that cannot be proven, and is thus not an argument. screaming that you're town does not make you town
4. "strong gut read" - do you even know what a gut read is. you are explaining the problems you have. and then using the copout gut read excuse to weaken your own argument. so that if greyice flips town you can fall back on "well it was just a gut read"
5. thenewearth is town to you because they are defending you? yes? buddying? that's all i see when you don't give a reason
there you go guys, i have thoroughly analyzed a scumpost

im splitting this up here because rory showed up and i feel like i'm going to need to do a lot of hardcore reading of his stuff

[Dunnstral]

That lining up two lynches thing looks like a slip...

[Parama]

Rory - 640 - this would be so much easier if you'd just link to the post in question. i have no clue which post you're talking about, and don't care enough to find it myself
Rory - 641 - if you're true to your word, then we won't have the same problem as with BTD6
Rory - 642 - i absolutely disagree. please elaborate.
Rory - 644 - given your posts in this thread, there's no context as to why clumsy has jumped ahead of guilty for you. you didn't mention him, at all. you did mention guilty several times, however. please provide context for your reads so that they don't look like BS
Guilty - 648 - also a good point, i don't really see guilty's push on clumsy as a bus, or if it is, it's a really, really stupid bus
frog - 659 - even aside from the slot requesting replacement, i just get all sorts of goodvibes from frog. the bit at rory is delicious.
Clumsy - 666 - it's nice that you crumbed, but it's null as heck. scum were given fakeclaims. town have their own roles. either side can set up their crumbs as early as they'd like. and honestly i don't get the point of crumbing. i haven't done an ounce of crumbing and don't plan to. who cares. all it ever does is, if scum sees the crumbs, lets them know who to kill
Creature - 677 - did you even read any of the posts before this one
Kitten - 682 - god, why are you trying to put a scummy spin on an extremely null action? what the heck. i agree with the rest but, that one line, just, eeewww
Kitten - 684 - shh. it'll be alright. ssshhh. don't rolefish. sshhhhhh. we'll find your scumbuddies soon
Rory - 685 - but look at the coooonteeeext. you can scream bussing all you want and it's a possibility sure, but an unlikely one given the cooooonteeeext of Guilty's push on Clumsy.
Kitten - 689 - this is good
Dunn - 691 - i disagree with your association. if guilty is scum with anyone, imo, it'd be you? like, i don't have much reason for this beyond poe. you or kitten. both make sense. i dunno if GL is scum though.
BTD6 - 695 - ????? ? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ? ????????? ???
BTD6 - 696 - again, substantiate this read or it's useless
BTD6 - 698 - is it that you're not reading the thread or that you just don't understand english, i have no clue where this is coming from.
Creature - 700 - it's called a mod-provided fakeclaim. i dunno how much the mod actually provided for fakeclaims, whether just the role names or actual fake role PMs, but it's not a stretch of a claim to make based off just the role name itself. that being said, i don't think clumsy is scum anyways so w/e
thenewearth - 708 - this makes me so goddamn wary. is this. did you just say. ???. but then. if he was town. and you were scum. you'd push the mislynch, right?... i don't know. this is going to bother me.
i really do not see what frog is getting at at the bottom of page 29.
Guilty - 726 - guess i'm scum then. whew. that's a weight off my chest. confirmed scum, right here. let's get the mislynch train rolling on BTD6 now.
Guilty - 727 - exactly, agreed 100%. but what do i know, i'm scum
i literally do not care about flavor stuff in terms of scumhunting. i think frog is grasping at straws and clogging up the thread with pointless, incomprehensible gibberish. can we focus on actual real things like actually playing the game now
Dunn - 749 - grrooossss
i don't like dunn's case. i don't see a single argument that isn't dependent on both of them being scum, and it's more finding associations than actually saying why their posts are scummy. if either of them is town, the entire case falls apart..
Dunn - 760 - i don't see how BTD6 slipped tbh, it's just kinda bad

i hope to never get this far behind in the game again but it's hard to care rn tbh

[Parama]

i absolutely cannot see myself voting anyone other than btd6 today, for far more than just policy reasons.

[Dunnstral]

i don't see a single argument that isn't dependent on both of them being scum

Except the whole thing still stands even if Guiltylion is town, against Rory being scum

[Parama]

not from the case you just posted, no

[GuiltyLion]

Except the whole thing still stands even if Guiltylion is town, against Rory being scum

ftr I agree with this

[Parama]

what am i not seeing then. all i see are associative tells.

[Parama]

and not to discredit any of the associative tells because they're all fine and dandy i guess, or at least i haven't bothered to look into them too deeply because i don't really care about association until we have flips

but. nothing outright says rory is scum independently, in what dunn just posted...

[Dunnstral]

His read on GL is changing in a way that doesn't make sense and his interactions with GL are independently scummy

[Parama]

i'm more concerned about his clumsy read out of nowhere than his GL read tbh

[GuiltyLion]

Now I'm thinking CP/Rory/KL scumteam. Maybe GreyICE as my insurance pick.

I'm still chilling in this universe, waiting patiently for you guys to arrive there with me

[GreyICE]

Wow, GreyIce's last post was that thing with GuiltyLion.

@GreyICE

Do you still think the scumteam is GL + BTD6?

...

You have no idea how much of my time and emotional energy the rest of this site has been using. If you can post search me, well, you might have some idea. Let's just say I do actually like most of the people in this game better.

Vote: BTD6

It's nice he came back for one post to save his sorry hide. This is the correct lynch for today. Phoenix isn't.

[BTD6_maker]

Communist Vigging is the way to go. A Vig should always decide who to kill solely based on what Town thinks, not what they think.

A Vig is at best a second lynch. At worst it destroys Town. It's best for everyone to have a say and take responsibility for the Vig kill, which involves people voting for who the Vig kills.

Is it site meta for the Vig to kill lurkers? It's certainly bad play.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: BTD6

Can't not vote this, get Rory tomorrow

[Parama]

Communist Vigging is the way to go. A Vig should always decide who to kill solely based on what Town thinks, not what they think.

no

A Vig is at best a second lynch. At worst it destroys Town. It's best for everyone to have a say and take responsibility for the Vig kill, which involves people voting for who the Vig kills.

no

Is it site meta for the Vig to kill lurkers? It's certainly bad play.

no

~BTD6-styled counterarguments