Micro 618 {Over}

[Charloux]

Also, i find this situation with BTD and Murder kinda sad. If he is guilty then we got scum, if he is town then BTD is scum, no?

Why sad? It's good for Town to finger scum, no?

Sad, as in nobody even cares for BTD. Nobody is voting for Murder and nobody is scumreading BTD because they think he is faking it. Just flat out ignored.
@Jae: For a drunkard you sure like wallposts Jae. And it's part 1?! And since you drink every day a bit of warning: Alcohol kills nerve cells. I don't know if you have these people there, but there are a couple of local legends here that act like they are drunk even when they aren't. The thing they all have in common is that they used to drink too much. And i wonder what will be the the turning point of your read on Chip, so far it's null-scum?

[ReallySick]

If this is true you should be voting BTD end of story.

Can he be a Vanilla Townie doing a gambit? I have pulled such gambit and that's why we're voting Karnos instead of Murdercat.

If I lynch Murdercat and Murdercat flips town, mafia will fry him like hell. If I lynch Murdercat and Murdercat flips maf, well he is genuine seer as it turned out--but like it matters because he's going down with the vengekill.

To quote a very famous Epic Mafia mantra: "Don't lynch either the cop or the cop target for more report" Which is perhaps one of the rare wise quote to came from there

[karnos]

@BTD you're sticking with your claim? This is a one time free out. If you are a VT then say so now.

This is very weird to me. On day 1, BTD gave his claim, and D&A was so sure it was BS they lied to try to get him lynched. You said yourself your thinking was the same and you would have done the same thing in D&A's place, and that is why D&A is obv town to you.

Okay. But now BTD's claim is a step more serious, he has a guilty result, and now instead of assuming he is scum, you are willing to backpedal and let him have an out as a VT? I don't get it. In my mind it's pretty fucking clear: either Murdercat is indeed scum, or BTD is lying scum. There is no town motivation for a fake seer claim and a fake guilty result.

The *only* reason I could see why you want to give him an out is that you know he isn't scum- because you are. And if you pushed a lynch on him now, his flip would reveal a bit too much.

Also, i find this situation with BTD and Murder kinda sad. If he is guilty then we got scum, if he is town then BTD is scum, no?

Weird. I agree with your assessment, either BTD is correct and murdercat is scum, or BTD is scum, but why is catching scum sad?

All of her posts convinced me. She's not scum.

Didn't need a topic to know she's town.

Here is the thing: you were convinced BNL was scum, and before that you were convinced BTD was scum. So you being convinced of something really doesn't mean shit in the scheme of things, you have already shown that you can be wrong.

Really, the only way you could know she is town is if you are scum.

What the fuck JR, he just claimed a guilty and you think he is VT?

Your reaction to your wagon yesterday and to the guilty read as town to me.

Okay, so that is why you think BTD is lying, but instead of taking the logical conclusion that he is lyning as scum, you immediately offer him an out as VT. Why can't he be scum? Is it because you know who your scum partner is, and it isn't BTD?

I am starting to see the possibility that maybe D&A isn't scum with Jae, but I still see Jae as a scum, presumably with Murdercat.

[ReallySick]

I am starting to see the possibility that maybe D&A isn't scum with Jae, but I still see Jae as a scum,

presumably with Murdercat.

SO FICKIN VOTE HIM! LET'S VOTE TOGETHER. Together, we can put him at L-2. You vote him, I sheep you since me and sickofit settles at {Murdercat,Karnos}

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Come On. I dare you to (hypothetically) bus him.

~Realeo

[karnos]

If this is true you should be voting BTD end of story.

If I lynch Murdercat and Murdercat flips town, mafia will fry him like hell. If I lynch Murdercat and Murdercat flips maf, well he is genuine seer as it turned out--but like it matters because he's going down with the vengekill.

To quote a very famous Epic Mafia mantra: "Don't lynch either the cop or the cop target for more report" Which is perhaps one of the rare wise quote to came from there

The thing is, you make a good argument for why we shouldn't lynch BTD or Murdercat, but your argument does not require BTD to be a VT. Only Jae seems to make that leap.


Why?

Can he be a Vanilla Townie doing a gambit? I have pulled such gambit and that's why we're voting Karnos instead of Murdercat.

You did what?

[ReallySick]

I am not making a leap (I don't know about JaeReed) but I pulled a gambit where I claimed cop as Vanilla Townie (or whatever what they call it back in Epic Mafia)

BTD is not 100% VT, but he can be VT. Which is why I'm giving him the benefit of doubt.

[MURDERCAT]

Can he be a Vanilla Townie doing a gambit? I have pulled such gambit and that's why we're voting Karnos instead of Murdercat.

Why are people entertaining this? Why do people think this is a possibility? What am I missing?

[ReallySick]

And why did I make that stupid offer when I shouldn't lynch Murdercat given the state of the game.

Sorry, sorry. Adrenaline rush.

~Realeo

[ReallySick]

Can he be a Vanilla Townie doing a gambit? I have pulled such gambit and that's why we're voting Karnos instead of Murdercat.

Why are people entertaining this? Why do people think this is a possibility? What am I missing?

Mafia is

not

binary of town is being honest v mafia lied. It can gets complex.

[MURDERCAT]

BTD is not 100% VT, but he can be VT. Which is why I'm giving him the benefit of doubt.

He is claiming a guilty on me!

[karnos]

Come On. I dare you to (hypothetically) bus him.

~Realeo

We have a week. Obviously I'm going to vote BTD or Murdercat, one of them is scum, but I don't want to rush things. Lynching a seer would suck. Lynching a guilty who flips town would suck equally. While I am leaning in favor of believing BTD's claim, I want to see a little more discussion before voting.

[ReallySick]

So? He is claiming a guilty on you has equal power with claiming a innocent on you or even claiming roleblocked. A VT claimed Cop is a VT gambit--it doesn't matter the report. This maybe counter-intuitive but it is the truth.

He can be scum, VT gambiting scum on your, or real cop checking you.

Trust me that 100% understand you--if you're town--I have been on the giving end and the receiving end.

~Realeo

[JaeReed]

Also, i find this situation with BTD and Murder kinda sad. If he is guilty then we got scum, if he is town then BTD is scum, no?

Why sad? It's good for Town to finger scum, no?

Sad, as in nobody even cares for BTD. Nobody is voting for Murder and nobody is scumreading BTD because they think he is faking it. Just flat out ignored.
@Jae: For a drunkard you sure like wallposts Jae. And it's part 1?! And since you drink every day a bit of warning: Alcohol kills nerve cells. I don't know if you have these people there, but there are a couple of local legends here that act like they are drunk even when they aren't. The thing they all have in common is that they used to drink too much. And i wonder what will be the the turning point of your read on Chip, so far it's null-scum?

As far as my read on Chip... It's coming. As far as BTD, yeah I'm thinking the claim was fake and therefore the guilty is fake. Plus I was townreading Murder due to the way he reacted to his wagon D1. Just wasn't a scummy way to react to your own wagon.

And I have studied the effects of alcohol on the brain. It's part of the intro to psychology. At least I don't inject adrenaline on a dare and potentially stress my heart for a stupid as fuck reason. You have no right to take the moral high ground with me, dude.

[MURDERCAT]

Nothing personal please...

[MURDERCAT]

As for BTD, I don't see why people are even thinking about the possibility that they could be a gambitting VT. Like where is this coming from? He claimed cop and has a guilty on me.

[JaeReed]

So? He is claiming a guilty on you has equal power with claiming a innocent on you or even claiming roleblocked. A VT claimed Cop is a VT gambit--it doesn't matter the report. This maybe counter-intuitive but it is the truth.

He can be scum, VT gambiting scum on your, or real cop checking you.

Trust me that 100% understand you--if you're town--I have been on the giving end and the receiving end.

~Realeo

This. BTD can be scum or town.

I do not believe BTD's claim and I do not believe his claim of having a result.

This means he could be seer with a no result, seer with a guilty, VT guessing at a result he's confident on (think what pisskop has been known to do) to try to get that lynched to save his own bacon, or I don't really fucken know. Charl knows more about fakeclaiming than I do considering he was the one that fakeclaimed JK and ended up moving the lynch line along to the doctor in Trees so that both our goddamn PRs got outted. Yes, I'm still pissed about that.

Anyway, there are situations in which neither BTD nor Murder are scum. I'm townreading Murder but am still unsure on BTD. The fact that Murder is acting like a goddamn Jester doesn't help me sort shit. Everything has been complicated needlessly because I have to sort if the seer claim is scum or dumb town.

[JaeReed]

As for BTD, I don't see why people are even thinking about the possibility that they could be a gambitting VT. Like where is this coming from? He claimed cop and has a guilty on me.

Because he looked scummy as fuck on D1 and people didn't believe his claim even then. He was told to have a guilty basically by D&A and he conveniently comes back D2 with a guilty... On someone who reacted so innocently town to his wagon D1 (the whole "oh so we're lynching town to avoid the vengekill" assumption on your behalf) that there's no way it could be scum.

If I hadn't experienced town fake claiming before I wouldn't even be questioning this and would be trying to drive home a BTD lynch right now. This is fucking with my head and I feel like I'm being manipulated seven ways to Sunday and I don't know who by or whether it's for scum or town reasonings.

[ReallySick]

Time to spill the bean.

I'm the seer. Me and BTD have been roleswapping.

~Realeo

[JaeReed]

Time to spill the bean.

I'm the seer. Me and BTD have been roleswapping.

~Realeo

I doubt it. Purely because I know what it's like to be a PR in this kind of setup. I was Follower with Get A Room mechanics in my first exposure to this mechanic.

I outted to my rooms and townreads only (along with an accidental outing to Postie which in turn her reaction was so town that she became my top townread). I did not ever under any circumstances out in the main thread.

But alright. You're claiming seer. Are you saying that you have a guilty on Murder? If you do, we should be looking for a partner. Murder is acting like a jester though in that he wants to be lynched. If he's scum I don't think it's wise to allow him his 2 vengekills before we sus out his partner.

[MURDERCAT]

How am I acting like a jester? I obviously want BTD lynched and for no one to believe that stupid claim.

[ReallySick]

If you do, we should be looking for a partner. Murder is acting like a jester though in that he wants to be lynched. If he's scum I don't think it's wise to allow him his 2 vengekills before we sus out his partner

Let us do the math.

If I have Murdercat guilty and I tell that I have guilty report: there'll be people who question my report and insist on me not being cop
If I have Murdercat innocent and I tell that I have innocent report: there'll be people who question my report and insist on me not being cop

It's a lose-lose. I am

100% going

to out it later, but it's the best of interest for us to be not biased. The reason that I'm telling that I am the cop is Murdercat is tunneling on BTD and that's like not productive like hell.

It is possible that I erred and BTD is scum--but at least ditch away the gambit reasoning.

~Realeo

[MURDERCAT]

If you were seer then you would give your result. Are you saying that you told BTD your role and had him claim the result? And I'm not tunneled on BTD, my strong town reads know where else I'm looking.

[MURDERCAT]

UNVOTE:

Idk

[ReallySick]

Are you saying that you told BTD your role and had him claim the result?

That is correct. He claimed D1 seer, so why don't just leverage him as well?

Gambit + Roleswapping

If you were seer then you would give your result.

I will before the day ends (5 days into deadline), but not insta going to. That simply dumb.