Newbie 1718 [Game Over!] Mafia

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Post Post #500 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:35 am

Post by innocentvillager »

NEW DEADLINE is a 36 hour EXTENSION from the original deadline. No more extensions will be given after this.



VOTECOUNT 1.11 (unchanged)
Player
Being voted by (in chronological order)
Number of Votes
1. Kaori Miyazono kraska77
1
2. Harlii Racer64
1
3. gigabyteTroubadour
4. Racer64 Harlii, gigabyteTroubadour, House
3
5. ai_shuuuu RadiantCowbells, DoctorPepper
2
6. kraska77
7. RadiantCowbells
8. DoctorPepper
9. House ai_shuuuu
1


Not voting: Kaori Miyazono

NEW!! Deadline to lynch is in (expired on 2016-07-01 02:56:27)

With 9 eligible to vote, it's 5 votes to lynch

Please let me know if there are errors in the VC, or have any other questions in general. Don't forget to bold such requests to me.
Last edited by innocentvillager on Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #501 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:35 am

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

Hey fiddlercrab, I know it's a long read but when you're done (or as you're going) you should post a readlist just so we know where you stand.
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Post Post #502 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:17 am

Post by fiddlercrabontheroof »

Hello everyone :) I'm in class right now, so it'll be a few hours before I'll have anything, but I promise I'm reading thru everything and I'm about halfway done. Also, I'm a complete newbie to online mafia, so please forgive any formatting or social faux pas. :)
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Post Post #503 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:05 am

Post by Kaori Miyazono »

I will let fiddler catchup but will likely vote Racer for sake of deadline.
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Post Post #504 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:06 am

Post by House »

In post 503, Kaori Miyazono wrote:I will let fiddler catchup but will likely vote Racer for sake of deadline.
Actually, I'm willing to go with your read if you want to push ai and can give me a case since we have an extension.
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Post Post #505 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:24 am

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

In post 504, House wrote:Actually, I'm willing to go with your read if you want to push ai and can give me a case since we have an extension.
I thought Kaori townreads ai_shuuu? I still really want to hear out RC's case, I'm willing to wait since it's the only loose end to this day that I really can think of :?
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Post Post #506 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:36 am

Post by House »

In post 505, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
In post 504, House wrote:Actually, I'm willing to go with your read if you want to push ai and can give me a case since we have an extension.
I thought Kaori townreads ai_shuuu? I still really want to hear out RC's case, I'm willing to wait since it's the only loose end to this day that I really can think of :?
Scum can townread town.
Town can townread scum.
Scum can scumread scum.
Town can townread town.

I think I covered all the bases, here.
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Post Post #507 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:38 am

Post by House »

In post 506, House wrote:
In post 505, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
In post 504, House wrote:Actually, I'm willing to go with your read if you want to push ai and can give me a case since we have an extension.
I thought Kaori townreads ai_shuuu? I still really want to hear out RC's case, I'm willing to wait since it's the only loose end to this day that I really can think of :?
Scum can townread town.
Town can townread scum.
Scum can scumread scum.
Town can townread town.

I think I covered all the bases, here.
Oh yeah...

Town can scumread town.
Scum can scumread town.
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Post Post #508 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:42 am

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

I know, oops. The way 504 was phrased, I had the impression you believed that Kaori, whether he is town or scum, scumread Ai_shuu and you were asking for a case on why he scumreads him. Since ai_shuuu is the other person we seem to be considering for lynching, I
would
like to hear both sides to his wagon since I'm pretty neutral on it. I guess I never really considered calling reasons to townread someone a "case", but it does make sense.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Post Post #509 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:03 am

Post by House »

In post 508, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:I guess I never really considered calling reasons to townread someone a "case", but it does make sense.
I'm asking for RC's scum case on ai.
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Post Post #510 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:38 am

Post by Kaori Miyazono »

I don't understand what you mean, ai is not in my pool.

The pool was RC/Kraska/racer/you

In descending order of interest in lynching prior to recent events.
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Post Post #511 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:31 pm

Post by House »

In post 510, Kaori Miyazono wrote:I don't understand what you mean, ai is not in my pool.

The pool was RC/Kraska/racer/you

In descending order of interest in lynching prior to recent events.
Why do you townread foe slot?
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Post Post #512 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:26 pm

Post by Kaori Miyazono »

In post 511, House wrote:
In post 510, Kaori Miyazono wrote:I don't understand what you mean, ai is not in my pool.

The pool was RC/Kraska/racer/you

In descending order of interest in lynching prior to recent events.
Why do you townread foe slot?
If I recall, I liked his fight with DP. Part of it *was* how you were interacting with him so it's not totally strong (as in, I would not actively oppose his lynch, but wouldn't likely be a part of it).
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Post Post #513 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:41 pm

Post by DoctorPepper »

What was there to like about that fight?
Show
Keep calm and Drink Dr Pepper :)

Quarantine is driving me crazy :(

Get to know a Pepper!!!
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Post Post #514 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:22 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

As a preemptive note: if I were scum I could pull together a case on just about anyone in a day. I find it much harder to pull together cases as town because I second guess the shit out of myself and try to force myself to be perfect and all this crap. If you're townreading me specifically for the content in this case you are reading me horribly wrong. That said:

38-39 felt weird, almost like he was wary of me. I got the impression around the time that someone probably warned him about me in scum chat. That's part of why I jumped on House, and why I said that they are potential partners later. Foe feeling like he was walking on eggshells around me is one of the biggest things I'm scumreading him for. Especially if his partner could have warned him. I have enough of a reputation that that isn't mandatory but that's what I feel like.
Scum or town that kind of behavior seems inappropriate.
Town usually have a predilection to take crap personally, scum usually don't take it personally and disengage while discrediting.
In post 49, foedufafa wrote:"A bunch of awful votes" it's how the game works. You clearly have the time to post these comments yet you claim you can't post reasoning because of v/la. That makes no sense. I suppose you could just be angry right now for whatever reason, but not explaining yourself then deflecting then reaction voting me because you're upset that I voted for you is as scummy as anyone has acted thus far. Definitely content with my current vote atm
It's really fucking common for newbscum to explain the town motivation for someone's actions while voting them for them because they're having issues doublethinking. It also doesn't really mesh, obviously there's a difference between providing a massive case and just prodging along. Also, spinning it as upset at the vote is terrible and discredity, and 'scummy as anyone has acted thus far' doesn't really seem to lead into definitely content with current vote. It's also really posturey, it feels more like a measured, agenda;d description than an honest assessment.
In post 71, foedufafa wrote:UNVOTE: RadiantCowbells
FoS: Radiant Cowbells

learning here
This is weird. Why would you unvote someone you're still FoSing? I feel like this was probably him scared because House told him to leave me alone. FTR I could see Scum!House telling their partner to leave me alone because they'd be scared that I'd just snap and deathtunnel.
In post 108, foedufafa wrote:VOTE: DoctorPepper

If you are town then you seriously need to sit down and actually take a look at how this game has transpired, because if you aren't "intentionally misrepresenting" the game then you're on your third time of doing it unintentionally. I AM THE ONLY ONE WHO VOTED FOR RC. At least at the point that you originally referred to it as a "wagon"(and didn't even rescind that later, because this is the third time you've referred to my singular vote as a wagon). Nothing "lost steam." Actually, it gained steam. In post 68 RC finally got a second vote from tracer and I changed my vote in post 70. Two posts later. But in your narrative I "unvoted immediately when people stopped voting RC." What are you even talking about. I switched my vote after someone else finally JOINED me in voting for RC.

Seriously, I'm trying to understand how you can act the way you are if you're scum because like you said it is a "noob move for scum to make", but I can't continue to overlook the way you describe events and how seldom they match up with what I'm looking at. Apparently in your mind I'm suspicious because I jumped on that sweet sweet wagon of 0 votes that they had.
This is incredibly posturey and bad. Like, literally the entire post is spinning narratives. The way he describes Dr. Pepper is incredibly removed from reality and definitely feels like him trying to push an agenda. Like how is this an honest thought process: he clearly had decided the slot was going to be pushed as scum manipulating before he started writing anything. Even the structure of the paragraph feels fucking weird: this feels like something that came out emotionally but he clearly took the time while going through to get page numbers. That really doesn't sit right with me. And the 'sweet sweet wagon of 0 votes that they had.' is way, way overplayed.
I'm bothered by how much sway House seems to have over some of the other newbies in this game. Giga and Harlii have both admitted to having their votes swayed by him "without much thought," to use gigas words. I still see House as being more towny than not, but if he did turn out to be scum and either or both of them are town then his ability to sway others is dangerous. Let's have a bit of a healthier sense of skepticism, please.
Really, really common for scum to try to discredit town leaders, whether they're allied or not.

WRT 332 it had some okay bits on the less notable people but I hated the parts on myself and House. Calling someone your strongest townread but attacking their influence is scummy as fuck. Similarly he waffles all over the place on his read on me and while reading it I felt like it should come to a scumread but he declared it a townread which feels really top down and forced.

Ai_Shuu hasn't been bad in a way that I can point to but I've gotten a general gut scumread from them since they replaced in.
Notably they ask a lot of questions and don't really do much with them and it feels like a desperate bid to look town.

Anyway. pretty damn sure Foe slot is scum, let's lynch that today.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #515 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:32 pm

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

I'm still processing the post but thank you so much for that RC.
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Post Post #516 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:39 pm

Post by House »

In post 514, RadiantCowbells wrote:FTR I could see Scum!House telling their partner to leave me alone because they'd be scared that I'd just snap and deathtunnel.
I haven't been on the site in over a year until these recent threads.

I don't know you like that.
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Post Post #517 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:42 pm

Post by House »

In post 514, RadiantCowbells wrote:Anyway. pretty damn sure Foe slot is scum, let's lynch that today.
Well shit man, that's all you had to say.

VOTE: ai_shuuuuuuuuuuuu
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Post Post #518 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:00 pm

Post by House »

In post 64, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:Final thoughts, I actually really hate that I'm the universal townread this game,
In post 101, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:{House, gigabyteTroubadour} – Yes, I do tend to include myself in reads in places other than the very top. I think it's useful to gauge how I think the town should be/is reading me, and
I think I am around the townier side of null.
Anything you'd like to say about this apparent contradiction, Giggles?
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Post Post #519 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:18 pm

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

In post 518, House wrote:Anything you'd like to say about this apparent contradiction, Giggles?
first of all giggles is my new nickname please keep using it

And I made that comment (64) when people have only expressed townreads for me. Once Racer and RC said that they scumread me though, I went back to try to understand why and I at least saw Racer's reasons. I didn't exactly agree that they made me scummy, but I gave them weight and realized how they could affect one's perception of me. A lot can happen in 37 posts to change reads, even if they are shitty attempts at reading yourself.
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Post Post #520 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:24 pm

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

OK that comment he made about House having too much power on everyone is kinda funny especially considering that he was the first to sheep House.

Only points in your case I didn't quite agree with entirely are:
  • I didn't get any wariness from 38 (maybe slightly 39?). I don't really know how your town-playing reputation is, especially because I know you better as one of the best scum players (that scummie isn't there for nothing!). Foe would have either had to be a very active lurker on these forums or scumbuddy!DP told scum!Foe, since House claimed that he didn't know of your reputation in that way. At least this does explain your initial House vote.

    If foe/ai_shuuu flips town, and that's a pretty big if because your case did sell me, then I can kind of see where 108 might have come from. At the time of the DP wagon, one of the reasons I was eager to push it was that I really didn't like how DP was constantly getting facts about his and Foe's interaction wrong and saw that as scummy. I could only imagine for a town!Foe that it would be infuriating. Like, in real life, I tend to exaggerate issues if I feel like they're not getting the attention they deserve and I think that could be what was on town!Foe's mind. It certainly is very awkwardly written and emotional but I think that's just how Foe writes (post 79 is a pretty good example, but it's not emotional).
Those are really minor nitpicks to me though and overall I am really glad you pointed out things I missed despite going through Foe's ISO multiple times...

Another reason I'm ready to change wagons again:
In post 68, Racer64 wrote:foedufafa [1] This is more intuition than anything solid. Take it with a grain of salt.
This quote from Racer. Even at the time, House said that this readlist is incredibly contrived.

Except for Harlii and Foe (town reads) and DP (nullread), everyone in the town was given a scumread for very weak reasons (except mine tbf). Even worse, though, is that Foe isn't even given a reason to be townread. I thought it was too obvious to be a distancing attempt, but this is making me want to look into the possibility of a Ai_shuuu/Racer team.

VOTE: Ai_shuuu

This puts him at L-1.
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Post Post #521 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:39 pm

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

ok RC never said they scumread me until 125 but my point still stands, my personal read changed when Racer scumread me and I wanted to look into why.

and even then, saying you're a universal townread is different from saying you think your play might be viewed as a little scummy, since only how other players read you is what matters. I'm not sure if I'm making sense but it's not like the entire concept of putting oneself into an actual spot in a readlist makes sense to anyone besides myself :P
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Post Post #522 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:49 pm

Post by House »

In post 521, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
ok RC never said they scumread me until 125 but my point still stands, my personal read changed when Racer scumread me and I wanted to look into why.

and even then, saying you're a universal townread is different from saying you think your play might be viewed as a little scummy, since only how other players read you is what matters. I'm not sure if I'm making sense but it's not like the entire concept of putting oneself into an actual spot in a readlist makes sense to anyone besides myself :P
Making sense is quite important when your thought patterns conflict in a way that contradict each other.
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Post Post #523 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:01 pm

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

In post 522, House wrote:Making sense is quite important when your thought patterns conflict in a way that contradict each other.
How was I supposed to know, at the time of writing post 64, that someone who hadn't even posted anything substantial yet scumread me? As far as I knew, the two people who had any input in terms of reads townread me and no one else said anything about what I was doing, so I made a hasty assumption that that meant my play was town indicative. Was I wrong? Clearly. I understand your nitpickiness, but I have to wonder what you're trying to get at out of this.
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Post Post #524 (ISO) » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:15 pm

Post by kraska77 »

hmm i like RC's post tbh. many of the things he pointed out are nuances i miss as a newbie
im now writing an analysis post on racer, but in the meantime @RC: house and koari are experienced players, yet they did not pick up on the things you did and now house is voting ai-shuuu with you, what do you make of that?

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