Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[Thor665]

So you find my reason to vote to be so weak that I must be scum?

[Thor665]

What do you think of KTS's vote on me for "posting walls" is that stronger or weaker than sheeping a townread's vote?

[Transcend]

i'm fairly sure kts' vote isn't just because you're posting walls.

the fact that you don't actually scumread a slot (if you do scumread karnos let me know) and you put your vote on them looks like deliberate sheeping, and not in a towny way.

[Thor665]

I do scumread Karnos - I wouldn't still be sitting on him explaining how his stances don't make sense if I didn't give a hang about the slot.

[Thor665]

But the initial vote was *assuredly* deliberate sheeping, so if that's a scumtell to you - you better stick tight.

[Transcend]

well i don't scumread karnos so unfortunately we have differing opinions there buddo.

and i wouldn't put it against you to vote along with a scapegoat bandwagon and then candy coat it as scum.

[Thor665]

Okay, so me placing a vote on Page 3 off slim reasoning, and then later having better reasons for voting it = scummy due to the way I got on the wagon.
KTS voting me for 'walls' but having 'deeper reasons' that he hasn't said yet = town, because the stated reason for getting on the wagon then doesn't matter.

You logic does not fill me with joy.

[Transcend]

Well news flash. My mission this game isn't to flood you with joy. It's just to find mafia. And given that i think you're a decent mafia candidate, i thoroughly don't care about what you think about my logic.

[Kcdaspot]

@Thor. 195 is when you gave off the good Town vibes and 207 SOLIDIFIED the town read. Before you were being vague which gave me.... flashbacks
..

[Kcdaspot]

Yet to see Thor comment on KTL...

[karnos]

So to ask the question again;

Let's presume for a moment that you are absolutely correct and this is *exactly* how I see myself.
What presumes that I have a scum read at that stage of the game?
Because that's all that doesn't need to happen for this case to fall apart. Maybe I got my magical super accurate town read and haven't yet got a scum read - and, presto, my vote makes perfect sense even within the strange world of Mystic Thor the Wonderous Seer.

Do you have a rejoinder?

This was the response right here, you even quoted it, so I'm puzzled why you are acting like you aren't aware of it:

2- Your post was certainly open to interpretation. You said you only had a town read on giga. The question is WHY. At least 4 players had scum reads, and were voting on them outside of RVS AFAICT. You are apparently bad at hunting scum, otherwise you would at least be on par with those other 4 players. The fact you didn't have a scum read when several other players did seems to indicate that.

>What presumes that I have a scum read at that stage of the game?
See above. Other players had scum reads, you aren't an inferior player so you should have one as well.
>Maybe I got my magical super accurate town read
Once your argument is using magic as an explanation, it's obviously just BS

3- You mean your fake change of heart, mid post? If you changed your mind before hitting submit, you know you can go back and edit the start of your post. I find that posting style to be weird, like you are trying too hard to show you are working from a town thought process. And it was an attack on giga, you, and every non-active player in the game, and players in prior games who skipped out on the questionnaire. Your very selective interpretation that it was only about you is plainly wrong.

Since I had other posts defending you, I didn't exactly *need* to show that I had been defending you, it was part of an ongoing conversation.
And, yes, i see you agreeing with me here about my understanding of your claimed beliefs.

That is exactly my point. There was need to show yourself changing heart mid-post, it reads a manufactured fake thought-process designed to show you are coming from a town perspective. As town, you don't *need* to do that, yet you did do it... WHY? Are you trying to overcompensate because of the wagon on you? Are you trying to overcompensate because you are scum?

Can you just explain to me what the scum motivation would be to "attack you" without using your name, without voting you, and while questioning a player other than you?

That is called attacking someone without voting them - which is a very common scum tactic to avoid VCA and to stay off town wagons.
Can you explain the town strategy of attacking someone while *not* being up front about it?

Okay, for the sake of argument assume you are correct, "attacking without voting" is something only scum do.

Why aren't you reading 75 as scummy? Io was attacking me with that post, but she didn't vote me.

It's a pretty terrible logic. I think it's a fairly common town strategy to poke and question suspicious behavior before voting, as reactions are a useful way to read and the most obvious reason, town can only vote one person at a time.

[Kcdaspot]

Karnos: this wall to wall combat is just making you look worse and worse. There is no reason to take it this far. And besides he's town.

[PhantomCobalt]

Karnos: this wall to wall combat is just making you look worse and worse. There is no reason to take it this far. And besides he's town.

Why do you think he's town?

[Kcdaspot]

trust me. ive played with scum!thor before. this is not scum!thor

[PhantomCobalt]

Then why do you poke him in 284 and 286?

[Thor665]

Yet to see Thor comment on KTL...

There's nothing to comment on - he's intentionally playing to occlude his stances, and isn't actually participating in any meaningful way.

This was the response right here, you even quoted it, so I'm puzzled why you are acting like you aren't aware of it:

Because, as you admitted, you were answering it with stuff you were making up that I hadn't said.

>What presumes that I have a scum read at that stage of the game?
See above. Other players had scum reads, you aren't an inferior player so you should have one as well.

Weren't you the one arguing that scuma nd town reads are functionally the same thing? So I have a read - they have a read.
Or are you arguing they're different things when it benefits you?

>Maybe I got my magical super accurate town read
Once your argument is using magic as an explanation, it's obviously just BS

You're the one stating that my belief in my reads has to be hyper to do what I did - I very clearly stated I was arguing from the perspective of the world you were claiming I was operating in.

You still haven't clarified why it's an issue beyond "I think you should have had a scumread at that point"
Am I wrong?

Okay, for the sake of argument assume you are correct, "attacking without voting" is something only scum do.

Why aren't you reading 75 as scummy? Io was attacking me with that post, but she didn't vote me.

Agreed - but Io didn't then deny that she was attacking you.
That's kind of a big difference.
You and I both know you were attacking me - I might be willing to buy that you were also attacking other people in addition to me, but your defense tack didn't really read as honest. If your reply had been something like ;Yeah, I'm attacking Thor, and also everyone who hasn't posted' though I still wouldn't understand the purpose to attack everyone who hadn't posted it would have felt more honest than going 'no I wasn't'.

[Kcdaspot]

content = good

despite what people might say reads are never set in stone. while I have zOMGHESTOOOOWN read on him i wanna give him different looks if not to confirm that. i'd do dat wit errybody.

@thor: huh? what town opens like that thoo? his opening posts isn't all that scummy i admit but put into context with the rest of his posting I can not see him as not scum.

[Io]

oh my god so many long posts that are literally ALL FILLER.

why can't any of you be concise?

After reading the last 4 pages I second this notion.

Now I'm going to attempt to shift through posts and get some decent reads now that the day is a good ways in.

[Thor665]

@thor: huh? what town opens like that thoo? his opening posts isn't all that scummy i admit but put into context with the rest of his posting I can not see him as not scum.

I can, he's basically extroverting bully and being really proud of his big brain - he's sort of like a much less impressive ABR or something and could easily be town who just is bad.
Compare/contrast with Karanos and how he's fielding questions, like, literally this sequence just happened;

Thor: question for Karanos.
Karanos: Misrep answer.
Thor: That's a misrep answer, here's clarification if you're confused, answer now?
Karanos: Defends the point of the misrep as some sort of weird 'teaching me a lesson' thing.
Thor: ...ooookay, so will you answer now?
Karanos: What'chu talkin' about? 'quotes the misrep answer' I already did!

If he is town, he is literally insane - we should lynch him.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

If you think I'm scum, why not just hammer me, why you going for a new wagon instead? Or at least, why not show intent to hammer?

you're at L-2 karnos :/

no one's hammering yet because i will fight the shit out of them if they try

---

Trying to throw suspicion at Thor was an attempt at diverting my attention away from you. I put my low-information vote onto you because I felt that starting with you would generate helpful reactions, which it clearly is. Scum!Karnos wants to discredit the wagon forming around him before it has a chance to form so that he doesn't have to get involved in a town-lynching wagon (i.e., voting Thor or me). By asking the question you posed in #70, you innocently can figure out why I'm not scumreading Thor while implying that I should be doing so.

The logic behind bringing up 141 is that, after a reread, I realized that your intention in asking #70 was "Why are you scumreading me and not Thor?" As I see it, Io just caught onto this train of thought before I did, which is true.

Also, scum!Karnos has every incentive to vote for Io and not Thor. Io is a vanity wagon. At the moment, there's no way Io will get lynched and thus flip town. That way, it can't make you look suspicious for leading a wagon against a townie. Voting for Thor, however, has the risk of actually going through and putting suspicion around you.

Pretty much your scum motivation is summed up by the fact that you are focused on how people are scumreading you. The fact that you think my RQS was designed to get people lynched, the fact that the votes placed on you are absolutely pathetic ones (except Io's), and how you're flailing against Thor is just really weird when put into a town-mindset. If it makes you feel better, I think the arguments you're making really sound like they're coming from an ISTJ lmao . Whether you're frustrated you were "caught for the wrong reasons" or you just

really

hate being scumread is tbd

and @kts i am sorry

[Luna Fox]

Well they do say people do make more AI posts when near death.
And i haven't felt any towny vibes in anything Karnos is doing.

But...
I think that everyone hates being scumread, why even bring that up?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I think that everyone hates being scumread, why even bring that up?

It's the only possible town motivation I can see for Karnos acting the way he is at like L-3 (he's at L-2 now but the point is there wasn't too much pressure on him)

[Luna Fox]

I think that everyone hates being scumread, why even bring that up?

It's the only possible town motivation I can see for Karnos acting the way he is at like L-3 (he's at L-2 now but the point is there wasn't too much pressure on him)

Well technically there are a lot of other possibilities.
Town that actually believes what they're saying.
Scum that's going down swinging/flailing in hopes for their wagon to vanish.

I thought his weird logic for scumreading Thor at first was stupid, but townie. Because i see this happen everywhere and that's how mislynches happen.
I'm more concerned about PC voting him and sitting on the sidelines, while questioning KC on their townread of Thor that's voting with them, if they were any concerned about Karnos alignment, you'd think they'd be sorting this debate out more.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'm really feeling that PC and Karnos are different alignments. Would a scum!PC put his own partner at L-2 and paint it as an RVS vote? It's such a weird interaction regardless of PC's alignment.

[Luna Fox]

I'm really feeling that PC and Karnos are different alignments

I concur.
Except i currently think that Karnos is the town of the 2.
I kinda wanna see more from PC in general tbh.