Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[Io]

I've realized I have a slight perdicament. I can't decide if PC, Kill, or Kranos is the VI.
I'm thinking Kill right now, but I'm currently OK with all 3 of them being lynched.
Everyone else is either Town, not scummy, or just not posting looking at you Rass.

[Io]

It might be PC actually now that I think about it more.
I know it's not Kranos though, I'm almost 100% confident he is just plain scum. So I'll keep my vote on him.

[Thor665]

I'm not saying he

WOULD

get lolhammered i'm saying he

COULD

get lolhammered.

::Checks thread to see if he is in Road to Rome and forgot...::

Line 1- THATS THE WHOLE POINT. YOU think that it's illogical to interpret it that way. But then Karnos is trying to bring up how Io is doing the same thing to Karnos (This is shown in the quote below)

The difference being - Karnos agrees he was attacking me (sorta) he just also claims other attacks.
His lesson was derp terrible because he made up something while ignoring that I directly explained my answer as something else entirely.

Line 2/3 - But he did answer your question. (This is shown in the quote below)

So we're going with the answer; Thor is scummy for not having a scum read by Page 3?
Eh...if he wants to marry to that logic I guess he can.
It seems insane as a concept though.

The last line - The actual answer. "So no, It doesn't make sense that at a point in the game where many players have posted several posts outside of RVS, you only have a read on one of them. And further, it doesn't logically follow that your town read is necessarily reading anyone else accurately." AKA he's saying that there's been so much information posted already, why do you only have a read on one person? Why wouldn't you have a scum read? And how do you even know that town read is scum reading anyone else accurately?

Okay, so let's break down his statement here - he claims many players have posted outside the RVS, so it's strange I don't have multiple reads.
Let's look at all the players who expressed reads before I did outside RVS.

KTS in #43 *might* be serious in voting Troubador for RQS.
Troubador in #47 assuredly gives a town read that is outside RVS.
Troubador in #49 assuredly gives a scumread.
Thor in #55 gives a town read.

So, the "many" is...what, two?
The possible reads are...three?
Let's even add on a player and add on a read on the presumption you think RVS ended sooner than the rather generous end I gave it. I'm assuredly amongst the first five players to offer even a single serious read in the game. I would suggest I'm in the first two to three.

That means that if I'm scummy for only having one read at that point.
Then Karnos is also scummy - because he hasn't expressed any reads.
While we're at it, everyon other than Troubador only seems to have one read at that point - so all of them are as exactly as scummy as me if Karnos thinks I'm scummy for what he's calling out.
Who else did he call scummy for this tell?
Checking...coming up with...none....zero...zip...

Does that make sense to you?
Do you think this is honest logic on his part?
Or can you agree with me he is spewing gak - because he is absolutely spewing BS and you are lapping it up right now like it makes sense.

Also even if he weren't teaching a lesson, his Line 2 makes sense to me. I don't get the logic at all on depending a townREAD's read on another person. You don't know for sure your READ is town so chooing to bandwagon that READ's read over your own personal read doesn't make sense.

It does if I don't have a scum read - which I openly said at the time.
I had a town read.
the town read had advanced a serious scum read.
I guess I could have just sat on an RVS and twaddled about - or I could, y'know, support a town read in RVS. I don't get the logic of doing anything other than what I did.

Transcend why are you pushing me about something that won't happen?

And temporarily unvote? I think karnos is town, this unvote is permanent unless my read on him changes
VOTE: Transcend for bad logic

If you're voting Transcend for lack of logic (and I could see that)
How can you be okay with Karnos, who is assuredly also lacking in logic? What makes the logic flaws better/worse between them?

[PhantomCobalt]

i am now very much comfortable with a PC lynch.

Why?

[karnos]

So we're going with the answer; Thor is scummy for not having a scum read by Page 3?

No Thor. You are scummy because the absurd contrast of you being 100% certain someone is town, but claiming to have no idea about who might be scum at all. Reads are relative. I'd understand if you said you had some faint scum reads and some faint town reads on page 3, and I'd be a bit surprised if you didn't have any strong reads by page 20. It would even make sense if you had no or only faint reads on page 5.

In contrast, having one 100% confirmed obv town read while not even having the faintest scum read on page 3 is way out of whack with everything that should be normal. At least, unless 1: you are scum, and you know your town read is town, or 2: you are scum, and your town read is your scum buddy. 1 makes a lot more sense, but either is possible.

[karnos]

That means that if I'm scummy for only having one read at that point.
Then Karnos is also scummy - because he hasn't expressed any reads.

You missed the whole point. Having one 100% certain reads but no other reads at all, not even faint reads, is plainly absurd. If you need time to develop reads, that makes sense, but then you should have a 100% certain town read. If you are god-like at reading people, which might justify your 100% town read, then you would have to have at least some other faint reads, rather than... nothing.

I'm not the one claiming an absurd 100% certain read on page 3, you are. It's not unusual for someone to have no solid reads at that point in the game. It

is

incredibly unusual for someone to have one 100% certain read and no other reads, though.

[Killthestory]

I've realized I have a slight perdicament. I can't decide if PC, Kill, or Kranos is the VI.
I'm thinking Kill right now, but I'm currently OK with all 3 of them being lynched.
Everyone else is either Town, not scummy, or just not posting looking at you Rass.

This coming directly after my vote.

[karnos]

It might be PC actually now that I think about it more.
I know it's not Kranos though, I'm almost 100% confident he is just plain scum. So I'll keep my vote on him.

Yeah I'm pretty sure Kranos is scum too. Good thing he isn't actually in this game.

Seriously, this shows just how much attention you are paying to the game. You are 100% positive I am scum, yet you spelled my name wrong in two posts in a row. I wonder what else you got wrong... maybe your whole assumptive argument?

Do you have any scum case for me that doesn't involve putting words in my mouth that I never wrote?

[karnos]

My only problem right now is that the game only has 2 scum slots, yet I've found

at least

3 scum.

One of you must be town, but which?

[Tenshii]

@ Karnos, what's your 3?

[Transcend]

Well at least your vote is on someone you fos as opposed to strengthening the bw on your town read.

[karnos]

Scum:

Io

,

Kcdaspot

,

Thor

.

Honorable mention to gigabyte for 298 Those sort of posts are popular among scum, because it's a nice setup to get two miss-lynches in a row- but not a real scum read, because other than that one post, nothing super scummy from her.

I'd be okay with lynching Io or Kcdaspot today.

[Killthestory]

I AM CHANNELING

MAGENTA WOLF!

[Transcend]

Scum:

Io

,

Kcdaspot

,

Thor

.

Honorable mention to gigabyte for 298 Those sort of posts are popular among scum, because it's a nice setup to get two miss-lynches in a row- but not a real scum read, because other than that one post, nothing super scummy from her.

I'd be okay with lynching Io or Kcdaspot today.

Excerpt of something that appeared on karnos' computer screen at one point in time:

There were 12 items in your list. Here they are in random order:

1. Io
2. Kcda
3. Thor
4. Giga

[Transcend]

Oh fuck my mistake change the 12 to 10. I thought there was 13 players in this game for some reason. Lots of games I play have 13.

[Thor665]

No Thor. You are scummy because the absurd contrast of you being 100% certain someone is town, but claiming to have no idea about who might be scum at all.

Where did I claim I was 100%?
If I was 50% does that change how much you're screeching about this?

Reads are relative. I'd understand if you said you had some faint scum reads and some faint town reads on page 3, and I'd be a bit surprised if you didn't have any strong reads by page 20. It would even make sense if you had no or only faint reads on page 5.

You weren't presenting town or scum reads at that stage - are you scummy?
Or is it okay if one has theory super light reads that one doesn't describe them.
Almost the entire game was not posting or in RVS at that point still - I was one of the very first to advacne a read and move out of RVS.
You are scum towing a line.

In contrast, having one 100% confirmed obv town read while not even having the faintest scum read on page 3 is way out of whack with everything that should be normal. At least, unless 1: you are scum, and you know your town read is town, or 2: you are scum, and your town read is your scum buddy. 1 makes a lot more sense, but either is possible.

If #1 is true I'd still be more likely to be voting scum
2 actually makes sense with the way I play, so it's your most cogent suggestion yet - but is specifically tied with how I, and I alone play - but at least it's a theory that isn't immediately laughable.

[karnos]

No Thor. You are scummy because the absurd contrast of you being 100% certain someone is town, but claiming to have no idea about who might be scum at all.

Where did I claim I was 100%?

In 149

"Because that's all that doesn't need to happen for this case to fall apart. Maybe I got my magical super accurate town read and haven't yet got a scum read - and, presto, my vote makes perfect sense even within the strange world of Mystic Thor the Wonderous Seer."

Or are you now saying that you were putting out an explanation for your vote that was actually a lie?

"If I was 50% does that change how much you're screeching about this?"

It would reveal that you are either lying here, or your previous theory was a lie. Not really much point in debating further with you once you have revealed that you will just say anything to win an argument, truth be damned.

In before you claim "it was just a theory, I didn't say it was true"- because it was based on your own read, if you knew the theory was false then you shouldn't have used in your argument. Not going to let you hide behind weasel words like "maybe".

[karnos]

I'd adjust my scum reads a bit, that last contradiction pushes thor up a notch, but Io is still my favorite for lynching first.

[Thor665]

Or are you now saying that you were putting out an explanation for your vote that was actually a lie?

In the post you're quoting I claimed it as answering within your framework - so a lie is assuredly a word you could apply to that, albeit an openly stated one.
I don't think you're actually this obtuse.
I've seen your town game - this isn't it.

[Transcend]

i've seen his town game

this is it

[Thor665]

I've got this one.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=66795

No crazy lie logic arguments.

What have you got with a lie logic argument?

[Thor665]

Heck, just link me to him taking a theoretical answer and taking it as gospel truth as town.
Any time.

[Transcend]

to me he's reading nearly identical to the noob town he played in his first game on the site (which was with me). i'm not in the mood to delve into examples.

[Io]

I've realized I have a slight perdicament. I can't decide if PC, Kill, or Kranos is the VI.
I'm thinking Kill right now, but I'm currently OK with all 3 of them being lynched.
Everyone else is either Town, not scummy, or just not posting looking at you Rass.

This coming directly after my vote.

I don't really care about your vote enough to say you're town because of that.
Kranos is just overtly scummy so that means with er you or PC are just a bad townie. And as I said earlier I'm not as confident that you are scum with your interaction with Kc.

[Rosske]

Karnos, why aren't you voting for Thor?