Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)

[Infinity 324]

I could also see RC as scum btw, I don't remember any of his posts since I stopped scumreading him d1 and that's probably a bad thing.

[Fire Assassin]

This game isn't worth the headache:
VOTE: MM

Don't remember why I was voting SS over MM, but he is also in my scum pool.
Shooting Infinity tonight.
MM gets lynched today.

That about settles it.

[Infinity 324]

Are you seriously going to make me fullclaim dude -_-

[Fire Assassin]

Are you seriously going to make me fullclaim dude -_-

It won't matter cause you are dead tonight.

[Infinity 324]

You realize you have no chance of winning if you shoot me, mafia will just destroy everyone...

[Fire Assassin]

Like you could claim full blown cop who has a innocent on mm and I would call bullshit and still shoot you.

[Infinity 324]

Fuck you dude, you're an SK and you're not even playing to your wincon.

I'm an odd-night cop with an inno on wingback.

[Infinity 324]

Fuck me, what if the whole thing is a mafia gambit

[Infinity 324]

I really shouldn't have claimed there

[Fire Assassin]

Fuck you dude, you're an SK and you're not even playing to your wincon.

I'm an odd-night cop with an inno on wingback.

Nice, you don't even have a check on MM the person who you been defending all day?
Biggest fat lie ever.

If I am SK, why aren't you voting me? Why was there only one death yesterday?
Try to be better at lying.

[Fire Assassin]

Fuck me, what if the whole thing is a mafia gambit

One second I was a SK, now I am mafia. LOL.
Like dude, keep the story straight for a minute.

Key tips for your future lies. Keep the story simple.
Make sure everything seems reasonable. For instance a check on Wingback makes very little sense.
Then when you call someone scum, make sure you keep to the same story.

[Infinity 324]

I am voting you -_-

There was probably a doc, that would also explain why some of the more active/obvtown players didn't die

[Infinity 324]

Ughh this is so stupid

Can we please just lynch fire

[Fire Assassin]

Ughh this is so stupid

Can we please just lynch fire

We can totally do that.
Tomorrow, after I shot you, if you flip town.

But you won't.

[Wingback]

Catching up from page twenty-one. Finished up to page thirty-eight. I wanted to get current but I'm totally exhausted and there are a lot of recent walls so I'll get to those tomorrow.

I think you and Pers directly pushed MM more than I did, but I think I was most effective at stopping the opposition, so to speak, from forming other wagons outside of MM.

1) Who is this oppposition? 2) What wagons were they trying to form? 3) How did you stop them (links to posts and arguments you made where your arguments derailed a wagon)?

Also, farside, you must act on your poker hand in your next post or you will get scum points from me. Same with Wingback. I'm putting you two on notice.

What does acting on a poker hand have anything to do with alignment?

Infinity feels a bit too nice to me, white-knighting and whatnot, but he's still my top townread because I doubt he's scum hiding behind that to make a friend of me

Scum white-knighting town is not uncommon, and if he's a bit "too nice," why is he your top townread?

I'm very disappointed that my MM/FA theory didn't end up being true, and I think that flip means that MM is town too.

You had your vote on MM before you moved it to FA_Q2. Why does an FA_Q2 townflip mean that MM is town? If you didn't have independent reasons to think he was scum, why were you voting him?

Self-consciousness isn't a scumtell though. If I didn't have a lane to vote for, I'd be doing the same. Farside's next post better be convincing tho.

Hate the hedging here. Defends Farside against Shadow while at the same time setting up to push Farside. Why even add that last bit?

100% agree with Lane's Post 888. In fact, nearly everything The MM said this game sounds like bullshit.

I thought that Bulletproof went to any player who won his hand by himself. Ties can happen, and all.

This doesn't make any sense. If you correctly thought that "

if only a single player wins a hand on any Day phase they will be Bulletproof the following Night phase"

, as it mentions in the OP, then you would know that you weren't bulletproof since I won a hand too. If you incorrectly thought that all players who won hands in a day became bulletproof that night, why didn't you as Lane said, suggest that we all win a hand?

I'll voice another suspicion of mine: farside sounds to me like the kind of "in-control" self-defined intelligent people who I'd expect a BBT kill from. VOTE: farside

Why Farside as opposed to say, RedCoyote? It seemed to me that RedCoyote and BBT knew each other well from the past. When BBT got killed, that was the first person I considered looking back at.

[MoI] may have wanted to get out of dodge this game because he thought he was setting himself up to get pressured.

I find that hard to believe. Played with him in Mini 1800. He was scum there and suspected plenty but he stuck with the game and his team ended up winning. If you are actually arguing that you think he left the game because he was scum and afraid of getting pressured, that's a ridiculous assumption. You've spent most of D1 telling Farside how you and she are town together but a BBT kill suddenly makes you decide that your townreads are wrong? This reads opportunistic considering Farside was getting some heat from a few others as well.

I guess you just skimmed over the part where I said I had to essentially rethink my entire game and throw D1 out the window. Two of my biggest scumreads just flipped town.

This isn't accurate. BBT was your top scumread but when did FA_Q2 become one of your biggest scumreads? All you said about FA_Q2 was that you are not opposed to his lynch but you didn't think that was the best we could do which sounds like you had him as null at worst. You said the same for MM but MM seemed to be a higher scumread than FA_Q2. Why do BBT and FA_Q2 flipping town means you throw all your D1 scumreads out the window? In fact, BBT hopped onto the MM wagon putting him at L-1 which was what triggered you to jump off of MM and go for BBT instead. Now that we know BBT was in fact town, that should alleviate at least some of your reservations about an MM lynch.

---

That's the end of page thirty-eight. Going to get current tomorrow. I have a few comments on optimal poker strategy as well which I'll get into, and then summarize all my reads in detail.

[The MM]

Ugh I hate getting interrupted!!!
This is going to be sloppy.
I didn't read the long post by MM. The first 4 along was misinterpretation big time.
Second I'm a replacement here. I didn't sign up to see how many players started this game so I naturally assumed mini theme being 12 to 13 players. Rc should be lynched for making no case and sitting up the thread.
Mm should be lynched because he's scum.
I fully endorse my own lynch just so people will look hard as fuck at rc and his complete lack of scum hunting this game day and day 1.
I got to go now.

If the first 4 are misinterpreted, I think you should go and check around the next 90 or so. Voluntary ignoring.
You're basically flailing even more desperately than I am and trying to get people lynched for some reason. Maybe RC and I are not scum if you are, but lol.

Waiting on the mm to bet 500

In the end, it's but a few dollars but lane really wants to see it, so go ahead and laugh at how puny my 500$ actually are like.

Raise $500

Now shut up and take my money.

Seriously, you just gave away your money?
If you guys think this is scum I don't even

Fold

Welp, my money would get eaten up by antes in a few hands or so because I have like $100 or a bit more left. I have no reliable way to make it 550 in short time, so I figure keeping these few pennies to me has no use.

I could also see RC as scum btw, I don't remember any of his posts since I stopped scumreading him d1 and that's probably a bad thing.

Just ISO him. I'm sure he has a big absence period.

This game isn't worth the headache:
VOTE: MMDon't remember why I was voting SS over MM, but he is also in my scum pool. Shooting Infinity tonight. MM gets lynched today.
That about settles it.

I didn't know it was written in the rules that you had to be an ass. I remember a Vig forcing me along, but at least for all the douchebaggery he played his Vig with he had the decency to threaten townies with his Vig shot as a scumhunting plan. You have no such excuse for behaving like a complete douchebag like you do right now.

Catching up from page twenty-one. Finished up to page thirty-eight. I wanted to get current but I'm totally exhausted and there are a lot of recent walls so I'll get to those tomorrow.

I think you and Pers directly pushed MM more than I did, but I think I was most effective at stopping the opposition, so to speak, from forming other wagons outside of MM.

1) Who is this oppposition? 2) What wagons were they trying to form? 3) How did you stop them (links to posts and arguments you made where your arguments derailed a wagon)?

Also, farside, you must act on your poker hand in your next post or you will get scum points from me. Same with Wingback. I'm putting you two on notice.

What does acting on a poker hand have anything to do with alignment?

Infinity feels a bit too nice to me, white-knighting and whatnot, but he's still my top townread because I doubt he's scum hiding behind that to make a friend of me

Scum white-knighting town is not uncommon, and if he's a bit "too nice," why is he your top townread?

I'm very disappointed that my MM/FA theory didn't end up being true, and I think that flip means that MM is town too.

You had your vote on MM before you moved it to FA_Q2. Why does an FA_Q2 townflip mean that MM is town? If you didn't have independent reasons to think he was scum, why were you voting him?

Self-consciousness isn't a scumtell though. If I didn't have a lane to vote for, I'd be doing the same. Farside's next post better be convincing tho.

Hate the hedging here. Defends Farside against Shadow while at the same time setting up to push Farside. Why even add that last bit?

100% agree with Lane's Post 888. In fact, nearly everything The MM said this game sounds like bullshit.

I thought that Bulletproof went to any player who won his hand by himself. Ties can happen, and all.

This doesn't make any sense. If you correctly thought that "

if only a single player wins a hand on any Day phase they will be Bulletproof the following Night phase"

, as it mentions in the OP, then you would know that you weren't bulletproof since I won a hand too. If you incorrectly thought that all players who won hands in a day became bulletproof that night, why didn't you as Lane said, suggest that we all win a hand?

I'll voice another suspicion of mine: farside sounds to me like the kind of "in-control" self-defined intelligent people who I'd expect a BBT kill from. VOTE: farside

Why Farside as opposed to say, RedCoyote? It seemed to me that RedCoyote and BBT knew each other well from the past. When BBT got killed, that was the first person I considered looking back at.

[MoI] may have wanted to get out of dodge this game because he thought he was setting himself up to get pressured.

I find that hard to believe. Played with him in Mini 1800. He was scum there and suspected plenty but he stuck with the game and his team ended up winning. If you are actually arguing that you think he left the game because he was scum and afraid of getting pressured, that's a ridiculous assumption. You've spent most of D1 telling Farside how you and she are town together but a BBT kill suddenly makes you decide that your townreads are wrong? This reads opportunistic considering Farside was getting some heat from a few others as well.

I guess you just skimmed over the part where I said I had to essentially rethink my entire game and throw D1 out the window. Two of my biggest scumreads just flipped town.

This isn't accurate. BBT was your top scumread but when did FA_Q2 become one of your biggest scumreads? All you said about FA_Q2 was that you are not opposed to his lynch but you didn't think that was the best we could do which sounds like you had him as null at worst. You said the same for MM but MM seemed to be a higher scumread than FA_Q2. Why do BBT and FA_Q2 flipping town means you throw all your D1 scumreads out the window? In fact, BBT hopped onto the MM wagon putting him at L-1 which was what triggered you to jump off of MM and go for BBT instead. Now that we know BBT was in fact town, that should alleviate at least some of your reservations about an MM lynch.

---

That's the end of page thirty-eight. Going to get current tomorrow. I have a few comments on optimal poker strategy as well which I'll get into, and then summarize all my reads in detail.

1- Not my thing to answer.
2- Stalling poker hands denies some townies the chance to go after PRs, plus it undeniably kills the gimmick of this game.
3- It's a question of vibe, he doesn't feel like that much of a white knight to me. Plus if Fire is gonna be a douche and shoot Infinity tonight, I have 3 times less reason to worry about him anyway.
4- Not addressed to me.
5- You're getting it wrong. While I was setting up on Farside, this wasn't defending Farside as much as asking Shadow to find a true argument so he doesn't make the pressure look scummy. You're just reading everything wrong, like Fire and so many before you. Now that random townread of his on you is suspicious to me.
6- Who in their right mind would want scum to win a hand? Plus there is never enough time to put such a farce in place.
7- First, RC was scumread by a few people at a point in the game, which farside has never been. And as far as RC and BBT knowing each other goes, how in the blue hell was I supposed to know that? I've been here for like 5 months, 2 of which I was off the internet. Tell me how I was supposed to even guess that these 2, who I barely gave a damn about, "knew each other well from the past"? For something of relatively minor importance on top of that.
8- That'd be uber-meta levels of crafty as hell. As far as turning on Farside goes, I think it was very pertinent, considering the BBT kill was somewhat uninfluent, as to not rock the boat, as whoever said. So it's natural people would try to rock the boat and flip the table, isn't it? Also, you're confusing "2 of my biggest scumreads" with "my 2 biggest scumreads": there's plenty of place for an extra in my 3 biggest scumreads, and that still counts as "2 of my biggest scumreads". Also, two wrongs do not make a right: BBT's vote for me will not be right just because he flipped town.

[lane0168]

VOTE: the mm

[Infinity 324]

Explain to me why mm just gave away all his money as scum when he had an easy out not to.

[Infinity 324]

It's so fucking stupid that you guys want my reasoning for why mm is town and then when I give it you guys just ignore it.

[lane0168]

Explain to me why mm just gave away all his money as scum when he had an easy out not to.

What was his easy out not to? Because all your town points for the mm are exactly like this one.

The mm already has tracker. How is it proof he's town giving away a couple hundred dollars. That is one of the easiest things scum could ever do for town cred. What point does he have to keep it? Hed have to win a couple hands to get anything. The town cred, like what you're giving him, is way more beneficial.

I think it's crazy you act like scum couldn't possibly do that. How do you not realize that's exactly what scum would do as well? Its null.

UNVOTE:

[Infinity 324]

On the next hand, I want the mm to bet 300. He should have no problem with this, because if he doesn't have that much money, it can't go through.

If a player attempts to bet more than they have, it would still go through, it would just add however much they have left to the pot (putting them all in) and set the amount to call to that amount (if it was lower than that amount).

I seriously doubt scum would give away all their money unless they absolutely had to.

[lane0168]

You seem to know a lot about what scum!mm would do... Scum wouldn't question a townread? Are you new here? You think scum don't question townreads? What a joke.

Scum make more defined reads list, and don't fencesit? Town people normally have null reads on everyone. No.

That thought process? That's not a town thought process. Anyone can have that thought process of any alignment! So if course it doesn't feel fake.

Scum try to blend in more. Id say considering you have no idea what the mm is all about, you can't say that. There are plenty of scum that don't try to blend in

Pedit, he did absolutely have to or it was an outright scum claim
You being up a good point with the next one. Bbt says we should should be voting for the mm. And yet after bbt got killed, you decided that bbt saying fire was scum was the only reason for the kill. I find it convenient you didn't bring up bbt wanting to lynch the mm.

Basically your town points aren't town points and that's why they are ignored

[lane0168]

OK, well I'm pretty sure you're town so can we go back to lynching MM now?

We're both being sensible.

Except for now you're voting me when we should be voting MM.

Fire is prob scum as well.

So infinity quotes only the fire quote, saying that's why bbt died. Conveniently leaving out the part where "as well" refers to the mm

[lane0168]

But why did you check wingback? Literally nobody suspected that slot

[The MM]

But why did you check wingback? Literally nobody suspected that slot

Lane, think of it a second. You were scumreading me for keeping my money, and now you're still scumreading me for keeping it.
That's self-serving morality, so you'd deserve a little FU there. You're basically asking me whether I want a rope for freaking barbed wire for a noose, but you're like wanting to give me a noose regardless.

I think you're more a VI than actual scum, though.

But why did you check wingback? Literally nobody suspected that slot.

Is that a reason not to? No, it's not.