Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)

[Something_Smart]

Oh yeah that. The short answer is that my reads change and the vote on MM was pressure because I found him hard to read. I still find him hard to read, and I don't think the FA townflip necessarily means he's town, it just knocks out one of the reasons for which I thought he was scum (the strange interactions between the two).

@Infinity: the reasons listed along with the vote are fairly weak as the foundation for a read. What do you think of his comments regarding Wingback and the godfather debate?

[Infinity 324]

I don't like how he doesn't take a stance on the matter, the godfather part is NAI.

[Alchemist21]

Seth Bullock was a successful entrepreneur in the old west and was the first sheriff of Deadwood after Wild Bill died.

♠ ♡ DAY 2 VOTECOUNT ♢ ♣

redcoyote(2):

farside, shadow step

shadow step(2):

lane, infinity

Fire Assassin:

MM

farside:

Red coyote

MM:

fire assassin

Not Voting(2):

Wingback , something smart

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

The current pot is $573

The amount to call is $204

Still in the hand:Shadow_Step, wingback, red coyte, the mm

wingback, red coyote, must act.

Spoiler: Betting History

Bet orders:
Ante
rc checks
Infinity bets $50
fire assassin folds
farside folds
shadow step raises to $70
The MM raises to $204
something smart folds
infinity folds
lane folds
shadow step calls

Day ends in (expired on 2016-07-27 01:22:00)

[Infinity 324]

That's a sad vote count...

Do more people want to get onto RC, shadow, or fire?

[Shadow_step]

You mean the vote on shadow? I gave reasons why I think he's scum (though PoE does factor into it)

I'd love to see what those reasons are, the only one is you've given so far is "POE".

All your cases are bloody stupid, this is newb scum so he is scum, this is newb town so he is town. Pure bs

[Shadow_step]

Why? If Infinity is illogically defending MM, shouldn't that make you want to lynch Infinity as opposed to MM? From your POV, either he would either be scum defending a partner or scum defending town so why would it make you want to lynch MM more? Unless you think Infinity is town defending scum in which case, his defense shouldn't affect your read on MM.

By the way, why are you scumreading MM in the first place? The only thing I found was Post 819 and you agreeing with Lane's point in Post 910 after he questioned you about it. That doesn't look like a strong enough read for you to conf-bias Infinity's defense as making MM more scummy. What do you think of MM's response to that point?

MM

-

Infinity

Most likely, scum infinity is defending scum MM because MM has a strong PR.

MM

-

Infinity

Less likely, town infinity is defending scum MM, because he is conf biased, maybe arrogance plays a part in this. Refusal to keep an open mind and just illogicaly defending MM, without any solid reason. Just saying he is newb town......WTF?
From MM's post it's very clear that he is hard town reading Infinity as well, only because Infinity is town reading him. That's an awful reason to town read anyone. He doesn't have a problem with Infinity buddying with him so much for no reason whatsoever. I can't imagine a town MM being okay with that.

MM

-

Infinty

least likely, it doesn't make sense for scum infinity to white knight a town player who is scum read by majority of the players, he will get lynched sooner or later and scum infinity doesn't get much(if any) town creds after the MM flip. I don't see much scum motivation behind this.

Which is why I'd rather lynch MM today.

[Shadow_step]

shadow, you seriously need to explain your reads. All of them.

I'm not gonna make something up to please you. If you have a problem with my reasons that's your issue not mine.

[Shadow_step]

and the mm, well I guess we'll give that spot the benefit of the doubt for now

dafuq??
You were 1000% convinced MM is scum. What caused this complete 180?

[Shadow_step]

Rereading the iso on Shadow, I missed how non-existent he has been throughout the game and he

just seems to lob questions and throw shade on players without any reason or it.

That's pretty rich coming from you as you've been essentially non existent this day, what complete misrep(bold part).

[Wingback]

Rereading the iso on Shadow, I missed how non-existent he has been throughout the game and he just seems to lob questions and throw shade on players without any reason or it.

My scum order is more looking like this:

RC, Shadow and MM

Yes MM stays there.
I'm not letting that go any time soon and if Fire is telling the truth (which I don't really see why he would be) I can't imagine a 2 player scum team with the PR's that have claimed.

Did you read Qubixes' (Shadow's predecessor) ISO as well? What do you think of him?

[Wingback]

Qubixes spent the entirety of his time in the game tunneling The MM. Unless you are claiming that he was bussing (which is heavily unlikely given how he pushed The MM), I don't see him on a team with The MM at all.

You (Farside) have been tunneling The MM for a majority of D2. The fact that you so effortlessly throw Shadow_step into your scumreads without putting any real effort to read him makes me think my townreads are all wrong and you could be scum. If you genuinely were trying to read them, you'd be taking into account Qubixes' posts and not just make an easy push on Shadow for his low engagement.

As far as Shadow himself, I was townreading Qubixes but I could see him being partnered with MoI (Farside's predecessor). Their interactions have the hallmarks of MoI-distancing (see MoI's interactions with Karnos/Mathblade in Mini 1800 and the scum PT in NY195 for more examples).

I think that's probably why I'm not getting a confident scumread anywhere in my POE pool. My townlist is probably wrong and I should re-read the game from a different angle maybe consdering Farside(MoI)/Shadow(Qubixes). Going to wait for The MM replacement to help me figure out that slot.

[Wingback]

I also have some very serious doubts about The MM flipping scum. His latest posts have been so over-the-top levels of ridiculously frustrated posting, and I think he responded adequately to my push on him.

[Wingback]

Fold

I need to think about a few things before I vote.

This is a very self conscious post.

You didn't want to vote anyone....yeah okay, but why do you feel the need to say that..?

You never follow up on this. What happened?

[Wingback]

VOTE: shadow

Let's do this Farside, I didn't think rc is scum, and the mm, well I guess we'll give that spot the benefit of the doubt for now

Why don't you see rc scum.

I gave a reason I want to see why you think his lack of doing scum hunting is town.

Why wouldn't you compromise with Lane here given he voted your other scumread?

[farside22]

Rereading the iso on Shadow, I missed how non-existent he has been throughout the game and he

just seems to lob questions and throw shade on players without any reason or it.

That's pretty rich coming from you as you've been essentially non existent this day, what complete misrep(bold part).

Ummm I'm pretty sure my activity is way more then yours.
As for the bold I'll grab quotes on that next.

[farside22]

Rereading the iso on Shadow, I missed how non-existent he has been throughout the game and he just seems to lob questions and throw shade on players without any reason or it.

My scum order is more looking like this:

RC, Shadow and MM

Yes MM stays there.
I'm not letting that go any time soon and if Fire is telling the truth (which I don't really see why he would be) I can't imagine a 2 player scum team with the PR's that have claimed.

Did you read Qubixes' (Shadow's predecessor) ISO as well? What do you think of him?

Qubixes spent the entirety of his time in the game tunneling The MM. Unless you are claiming that he was bussing (which is heavily unlikely given how he pushed The MM), I don't see him on a team with The MM at all.

You (Farside) have been tunneling The MM for a majority of D2. The fact that you so effortlessly throw Shadow_step into your scumreads without putting any real effort to read him makes me think my townreads are all wrong and you could be scum. If you genuinely were trying to read them, you'd be taking into account Qubixes' posts and not just make an easy push on Shadow for his low engagement.

As far as Shadow himself, I was townreading Qubixes but I could see him being partnered with MoI (Farside's predecessor). Their interactions have the hallmarks of MoI-distancing (see MoI's interactions with Karnos/Mathblade in Mini 1800 and the scum PT in NY195 for more examples).

I think that's probably why I'm not getting a confident scumread anywhere in my POE pool. My townlist is probably wrong and I should re-read the game from a different angle maybe consdering Farside(MoI)/Shadow(Qubixes). Going to wait for The MM replacement to help me figure out that slot.

VOTE: shadow

Let's do this Farside, I didn't think rc is scum, and the mm, well I guess we'll give that spot the benefit of the doubt for now

Why don't you see rc scum.

I gave a reason I want to see why you think his lack of doing scum hunting is town.

Why wouldn't you compromise with Lane here given he voted your other scumread?

Sorry I'm phone posting so I'm lumping this and responding in order.
Let me know if I miss anything.

1) yes I read quibix, if you remember I had him on my scum list when I read through.
2) scum bus. They can bus hard too. Mm was already being looked at so why no join late, which quibix did.
3) I'm thinking before I switch.

[farside22]

Wingback doesn't have to be his partner. Scum infinity can easily claim that he has an innocent on any player and in this case Wingback who has had a town read on him.
Infinity could just be pocketing Wingback .

Yes but in that scenario Wingback is still town.

My point is, Wingback is only NOT town if Infinity and Wingback are partners. Since I find that scenario very unlikely, we can assume that Wingback is town.

Fair point, or Infinity could be telling the truth and Wingback could be a godfather.

Wingback doesn't have to be his partner. Scum infinity can easily claim that he has an innocent on any player and in this case Wingback who has had a town read on him.
Infinity could just be pocketing Wingback .

shadow, you seriously need to explain your reads. All of them.

I'm not gonna make something up to please you. If you have a problem with my reasons that's your issue not mine.

Loving how Infinity just calls me scum without presenting a case of any sort.

This is all in regards to shadow throwing shade.
The fake town tell towards lane, throwing shade towards Infinity claim or even wingback being a gf.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Shadow_step

[Shadow_step]

Wingback doesn't have to be his partner. Scum infinity can easily claim that he has an innocent on any player and in this case Wingback who has had a town read on him.
Infinity could just be pocketing Wingback .

Yes but in that scenario Wingback is still town.

My point is, Wingback is only NOT town if Infinity and Wingback are partners. Since I find that scenario very unlikely, we can assume that Wingback is town.

Fair point, or Infinity could be telling the truth and Wingback could be a godfather.

Wingback doesn't have to be his partner. Scum infinity can easily claim that he has an innocent on any player and in this case Wingback who has had a town read on him.
Infinity could just be pocketing Wingback .

shadow, you seriously need to explain your reads. All of them.

I'm not gonna make something up to please you. If you have a problem with my reasons that's your issue not mine.

Loving how Infinity just calls me scum without presenting a case of any sort.

This is all in regards to shadow throwing shade.
The fake town tell towards lane, throwing shade towards Infinity claim or even wingback being a gf.

Great, when did being open minded become throwing shade?

[Shadow_step]

Fold

I need to think about a few things before I vote.

This is a very self conscious post.

You didn't want to vote anyone....yeah okay, but why do you feel the need to say that..?

You never follow up on this. What happened?

I found the response okay.

[farside22]

To add to the question from Wingback.
I'm a bit apprehensive over this growing wagon and I have had a bit o paranoia in regards to Lane's comment about RC

[farside22]

Hey infinity: I see you around.
Do you think it's odd that Lane doesn't find anything wrong with RC or see anything scummy about him?

[Infinity 324]

Ok a lot of stuff on this page.

You mean the vote on shadow? I gave reasons why I think he's scum (though PoE does factor into it)

I'd love to see what those reasons are, the only one is you've given so far is "POE".

All your cases are bloody stupid, this is newb scum so he is scum, this is newb town so he is town. Pure bs

You're scum because you don't take stances on anything, didn't give reads until prompted and are not explaining those reads. You ask questions that don't really get anywhere in terms of scumhunting.

Why? If Infinity is illogically defending MM, shouldn't that make you want to lynch Infinity as opposed to MM? From your POV, either he would either be scum defending a partner or scum defending town so why would it make you want to lynch MM more? Unless you think Infinity is town defending scum in which case, his defense shouldn't affect your read on MM.

By the way, why are you scumreading MM in the first place? The only thing I found was Post 819 and you agreeing with Lane's point in Post 910 after he questioned you about it. That doesn't look like a strong enough read for you to conf-bias Infinity's defense as making MM more scummy. What do you think of MM's response to that point?

MM

-

Infinity

Most likely, scum infinity is defending scum MM because MM has a strong PR.

MM

-

Infinity

Less likely, town infinity is defending scum MM, because he is conf biased, maybe arrogance plays a part in this. Refusal to keep an open mind and just illogicaly defending MM, without any solid reason. Just saying he is newb town......WTF?
From MM's post it's very clear that he is hard town reading Infinity as well, only because Infinity is town reading him. That's an awful reason to town read anyone. He doesn't have a problem with Infinity buddying with him so much for no reason whatsoever. I can't imagine a town MM being okay with that.

MM

-

Infinty

least likely, it doesn't make sense for scum infinity to white knight a town player who is scum read by majority of the players, he will get lynched sooner or later and scum infinity doesn't get much(if any) town creds after the MM flip. I don't see much scum motivation behind this.

Which is why I'd rather lynch MM today.

Actually, MM did give a legit reason to townread me, and it looked a lot like the reasoning you gave for the last example.

Infinity feels a bit too nice to me, white-knighting and whatnot, but he's still my top townread because I doubt he's scum hiding behind that to make a friend of me: that wouldn't be an effective move to make for scum.

shadow, you seriously need to explain your reads. All of them.

I'm not gonna make something up to please you. If you have a problem with my reasons that's your issue not mine.

That's funny, because I don't see any reasons at all...

You (Farside) have been tunneling The MM for a majority of D2. The fact that you so effortlessly throw Shadow_step into your scumreads without putting any real effort to read him makes me think my townreads are all wrong and you could be scum. If you genuinely were trying to read them, you'd be taking into account Qubixes' posts and not just make an easy push on Shadow for his low engagement.

What do you think about me essentially doing the same thing

I also have some very serious doubts about The MM flipping scum. His latest posts have been so over-the-top levels of ridiculously frustrated posting, and I think he responded adequately to my push on him.

Someone gets it....

VOTE: Shadow_step

Eyy let's do it

Wingback doesn't have to be his partner. Scum infinity can easily claim that he has an innocent on any player and in this case Wingback who has had a town read on him.
Infinity could just be pocketing Wingback .

Yes but in that scenario Wingback is still town.

My point is, Wingback is only NOT town if Infinity and Wingback are partners. Since I find that scenario very unlikely, we can assume that Wingback is town.

Fair point, or Infinity could be telling the truth and Wingback could be a godfather.

Wingback doesn't have to be his partner. Scum infinity can easily claim that he has an innocent on any player and in this case Wingback who has had a town read on him.
Infinity could just be pocketing Wingback .

shadow, you seriously need to explain your reads. All of them.

I'm not gonna make something up to please you. If you have a problem with my reasons that's your issue not mine.

Loving how Infinity just calls me scum without presenting a case of any sort.

This is all in regards to shadow throwing shade.
The fake town tell towards lane, throwing shade towards Infinity claim or even wingback being a gf.

Great, when did being open minded become throwing shade?

But you don't even take a stance on what you think is the most likely....

Hey infinity: I see you around.
Do you think it's odd that Lane doesn't find anything wrong with RC or see anything scummy about him?

Lane I've written off as town because he does something I've never seen scum fake: posts exactly what comes to his mind. As scum, this would be a very bad strategy, not to mention he would say a lot more scummy things.

Plus RC isn't exactly the scummiest player here.

[farside22]

I feel like I'm missing something.

I'm going to do something crazy and stick with my guns on this about RC being lynched first.
If I'm wrong I'm sure I'll find out later, but something tells me following the sheep is not a good idea.

*pets guts*
Good girl, you'll keep me sane I hope.

[lane0168]

Hey infinity: I see you around.
Do you think it's odd that Lane doesn't find anything wrong with RC or see anything scummy about him?

Why would that be odd? You ever see someone scumread someone else but someone else doesn't wee it? Ie. Infinity not seeing the mm scum?