Newbie 1726 (Game Over)

[Zorblag]

@innocentvillager, thanks for that post. I do have a couple questions and am happy to talk about my page 7 posts that seem to be bothering you in a bit, though I'd like you to elaborate first.

What do you think of Gratuitous's posts the past couple pages. There's a change in tone and you don't seem to have mentioned that struck me as noteworthy. I'd also love to see if you can dig into what you don't like about ecane's resent posts as you seem to have a largely unique perspective there (in that no one else other than perhaps Gratuitous has mentioned it.)

For my page 7 posts, I wonder if you can tell me what you think my motivation as scum might have been to do what I did? I can understand not seeing what I was up to, but I'm wondering why you think it was scum play in particular.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[innocentvillager]

@innocentvillager, thanks for that post. I do have a couple questions and am happy to talk about my page 7 posts that seem to be bothering you in a bit, though I'd like you to elaborate first.

What do you think of Gratuitous's posts the past couple pages. There's a change in tone and you don't seem to have mentioned that struck me as noteworthy. I'd also love to see if you can dig into what you don't like about ecane's resent posts as you seem to have a largely unique perspective there (in that no one else other than perhaps Gratuitous has mentioned it.)

For my page 7 posts, I wonder if you can tell me what you think my motivation as scum might have been to do what I did? I can understand not seeing what I was up to, but I'm wondering why you think it was scum play in particular.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Zorblag are you speedman??? How much of that did you read so fast, and type up your post in <11 minutes after I posted???

[innocentvillager]

I will respond to your stuff after I sleep lol

[Zorblag]

@innocentvillager, I skimmed to find the topics that I found interesting (and looked at where your reads were surprising to me to hone in on the bits that I'd get the most out of.) We're on a tighter and tighter deadline here so I need to cut to the chase.

And to avoid waiting until tomorrow to get back to you, here's what I was doing with my page 7 question. I said off the bat in my question that it wasn't going to be fair:

You say that you find RachMarie's game to be similar to your own (and suspect that she's having some of the same issues.) I actually find there to be a fairly significant difference between the two.

It's not really a fair question given that I'm asking you to compare your own play to someone else's, but can you guess what that might be?

I'd concluded by that point that Foxbird was keying in on different aspects of the game than I was and valuing different things in her analysis of the game state. There wasn't any danger of her being lynched in the near future, and I wanted to see a bit more evidence of the sort of details she would hone in on before that before shifting my vote to another candidate. There wasn't a right or wrong answer she could give offhand, but assuming she was willing to answer it gave me more insight to where her attention was in the game.

The bigger issue that I'd expect one could have with my vote switch that came after the post was why it didn't go to Gratuitous, but Nachomamma8 already brought that one up.

I'm not sure what you find scummy about the move even without knowing that though. I didn't use an unfair question against the person I was asking it of and I wasn't keeping her in danger of imminent lynch. It wasn't a transparent question, but there are aspects of town play that shouldn't be entirely transparent as this is a game of information control.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

And I didn't say it in response to the post, but I'm fine with that post from innocentvillager coming from town. I want more interactions going forward, but my lynch preferences for the day stay the same.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Foxbird]

Holy mother of walls, I sleep and go to the doctor and.. jeez. Don't get me wrong, it's good, it's just a lot to read when I should be studying :')

First off:
UNVOTE: delta/innocentvillager

I don't want that slot dead today after that post. I want a Gratuitous or Fiddler lynch, I think, for reasons already stated by others and me. Would like to hear more about innocent's ecane case, but he's right, that one can wait until tomorrow. As for RachMarie... I really don't know, I'm still running up null, same assessment as in my last readslist. Can anyone confirm that she tends to struggle with D1 reads and might have a better overview D2?
I guess I can compromise on that lynch if need be, though. Better than a nolynch.

I'm not getting lynched today so you should find a better choice

This pinged me hard, gut thing. I'm not sure why. Strangely overconfident and bossy on a D1 with a couple of days left and no clear lynch target in sight.

VOTE: Gratuitous
Can we get a votecount? There's no way this is a hammer (probably not even an L-1) but I wanna be informed.

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 1.6

RachMarie (3):

Gratuitous, Zorblag, innocentvillager

Gratuitous (3):

Nachomamma8, ecane, Foxbird

Foxbird (2):

fiddlercrabontheroof, RachMarie

Zorblag (1):

Jaack

No Vote (0)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Thursday, July 28, at 4:00 PM CST, which is in (expired on 2016-07-28 16:00:00).

Prodding fiddlercrabontheroof.

[Foxbird]

^ Thanks!

L-2

on Grat (and Rach), then. Don't hammer without claims and stuff, you probably know the drill.

[RachMarie]

Wow inno

first of all I am impressed you definitely clarified that slot more I just can't see you putting THAT much effort in for a scum slot, though I would like to see some scum games if you have links, IIRC you have always been town with me in games. Though seriously a lot of what you have on me has more to do with the fact I got totally swamped with work and have not been able to play.

As for seeing caston as scummy, I think you really should focus on reading troll on that slot He has definitely contributed more and if you remember 1222 they lynched him and he was town, this definitely has that same feel in tone and in the PoV of the slot.

I have reassessed Fox and yeah I did jump to conclusions partly because of the previous game.

Thank you for taking that time it has help me to clarify a bit more.

[RachMarie]

Actually there is a parallel here I have been too hard on fox because of previous game and I have been giving grat too much leeway.

He just finished a game with me he is clearly going to try to be different.

Updated reads

Strong town : Troll , Nacho
Town: Inno , Fox
town lean: Jaack, ecaine (here is probably where to look if one of my scum reads is off)

meh could be scum not much to go on: Crab
Scummy: Grat

Nice try but you missed my message I said I would look at the previous game, I did not say I would make my decision totally on it. I understand why troll sees me as scummy he has not played with me much, I understand why Nacho town reads me, but you JUST finished a game with me and knew I was town, I think that is the case here too, its not how you play it is PoV I am looking at. You kept saying things that I should have picked up on if I had been paying more ATTENTION but not having Nacho active for a long time, and being so busy with work stuffs, I was not paying attention.,

See me I am not playing like I did last time

Nope its not the play it is the PoV behind the play. You are TRYING to appear townie. Not actually just being townie.

VOTE: Grat

L-1 Please state intent to hammer

[Gratuitous]

First off:
UNVOTE: delta/innocentvillager

I don't want that slot dead today after that post. I want a Gratuitous or Fiddler lynch, I think, for reasons already stated by others and me. Would like to hear more about innocent's ecane case, but he's right, that one can wait until tomorrow. As for RachMarie... I really don't know, I'm still running up null, same assessment as in my last readslist. Can anyone confirm that she tends to struggle with D1 reads and might have a better overview D2?
I guess I can compromise on that lynch if need be, though. Better than a nolynch.

I'm not getting lynched today so you should find a better choice

This pinged me hard, gut thing. I'm not sure why. Strangely overconfident and bossy on a D1 with a couple of days left and no clear lynch target in sight.

What happened to your scum read on Jack? You made it in #144, defended it in #152, and haven't mentioned him since so why is he out of your bottom 3.

Looks a lot like you bailed out of your potentially controversial scum read to settle on, the two leading wagons, and the lurker nobody has a real strong read on... impressive.

@InnocentVillager: I see what your saying with ecane, but overall his push on me looks more conf!bias than scummy, atm, I have a slight drop on him, but don't agree with pushing him down that far at this time

[Gratuitous]

Nice try but you missed my message I said I would look at the previous game, I did not say I would make my decision totally on it. I understand why troll sees me as scummy he has not played with me much, I understand why Nacho town reads me, but you JUST finished a game with me and knew I was town, I think that is the case here too, its not how you play it is PoV I am looking at. You kept saying things that I should have picked up on if I had been paying more ATTENTION but not having Nacho active for a long time, and being so busy with work stuffs, I was not paying attention.,

See me I am not playing like I did last time

Nope its not the play it is the PoV behind the play. You are TRYING to appear townie. Not actually just being townie.

VOTE: Grat

L-1 Please state intent to hammer

LOL, actually I replied and referred to it repeatedly. Yea I knew you were town last time, and worked awful hard to pocket you despite it being a controversial read most of the game. Likewise, I'm not playing the same game as last. Last I tried to appear townie because I had to. This time idc b/c I am town.

[Foxbird]

First off:
UNVOTE: delta/innocentvillager

I don't want that slot dead today after that post. I want a Gratuitous or Fiddler lynch, I think, for reasons already stated by others and me. Would like to hear more about innocent's ecane case, but he's right, that one can wait until tomorrow. As for RachMarie... I really don't know, I'm still running up null, same assessment as in my last readslist. Can anyone confirm that she tends to struggle with D1 reads and might have a better overview D2?
I guess I can compromise on that lynch if need be, though. Better than a nolynch.

I'm not getting lynched today so you should find a better choice

This pinged me hard, gut thing. I'm not sure why. Strangely overconfident and bossy on a D1 with a couple of days left and no clear lynch target in sight.

What happened to your scum read on Jack? You made it in #144, defended it in #152, and haven't mentioned him since so why is he out of your bottom 3.

Looks a lot like you bailed out of your potentially controversial scum read to settle on, the two leading wagons, and the lurker nobody has a real strong read on... impressive.

Agreeing to/wanting a lynch isn't necessarily the same as scumreading (or, in this case, leaning scum on) someone though - not when we're a day before deadline and have to consolidate, anyway. I named the candidates out of my pool that are the most likely to be agreed on by the town as a whole.
Just as innocent will have to come back to his ecane case, I will come back to Jaack. Just not now when we have to agree on a lynch or risk running into deadline and nolynch because of someone's stubbornness.

I also like Jaack's posting since my last readslist slightly more than yours, for what it's worth.

[Zorblag]

This is my intent to hammer Gratuitous.

I can now talk about what was bothering me earlier. I look at this game compared to his scum game and I see inferior play here. It's not play that's helping the town, it's just play that makes him look worse than he did in the other game. I don't expect a sudden drop off in skill like that, so I was trying to figure out what the motive was. When I woke up from my dream at 4:30 in the morning the other day I realized that this could be intentionally bad play to avoid getting targeted for a night kill as a power role. After giving it a significant amount more thought I've decided that the way he's going about it at first might be consistent with that play (keeping a lower profile and not working to make things happen,) but what we've had recently really doesn't. He's clumsily spinning the cases against him to look worse rather than spending effort convincing us that his suspects are scum. Town power roles should have gone with different play after picking up initial suspicion; they don't want to be brought to claim, they just want to look less obviously town than average in most cases (the obvious exception in this game is one-shot bullet proof.)

I don't want to talk about power roles at this stage of the game beyond this post, but I'm saying now that I've considered the possibility that Gratuitous has one and I think it does not fit with his overall recent play. I plan to hammer regardless of what claim he might make. I'd recommend that others take that into account as well, but I'm not going to make decisions for the rest of you, so I'm not hammering now. I don't know what his claim might be should he make one, but at this point I believe that the lynch is the correct move regardless.

Actually, as an aside, I always believe that for day one lynches even when I don't have this level of reason to have thought about it. If someone's play was scummy enough for the majority of the players in the game to be ready to lynch them, then they should be lynched. Claims give scum a chance to have a last minute out and run the danger of outing actual town power roles. Day 1 claims aren't worth it. When I played last I was not in the majority with that opinion and I'm not going to actively push it here beyond this, but I feel it's worth mentioning.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Nachomamma8]

V/LA until Friday

This weekend is very likely to be a "catch up in all mafia games and other sort of stuff" type of weekend; setting aside tomorrow in order to make that possible.

(I will check into this game since deadline is imminent, but will likely not be reading as deeply as I would otherwise. I will still read this game and take notes overnight).

[Zorblag]

OK everyone, we've got a problem.

There are approximately 16 hours left in this game day. 12 hours ago I announced intent to hammer. We've had one post since then and that was to say that Nachomamma8 won't able to read things well in what is arguably the most important stretch of hours in day 1.

That's terrible for town on all of our parts. We need to be playing this game to have a chance to win it. If there's any sort of unvoting from here on out I'm worried about our ability to hammer anyone before deadline; the activity leading up to this post isn't promising at all. The only reason that I'm not hammering with this post is that I'm hoping that the mod will start looking for a replacement for fiddlercrabontheroof before the day ends so that we might get a player in that slot who will play the game as of the start of tomorrow. I hate that I have to be taking that into consideration.

I fully expect to hammer Gratuitous when I wake up tomorrow so that we don't have any deadline nonsense. If you've got something to say that's relevant do so before then.

Town needs to play this game tomorrow. I hope that I'll be taking out scum with my next post, but regardless of whether I do or not we need to get this game into a more active state. Scum have too much ability to hide right now. There's no reasonable way we should be taking a slot with 3 posts to deadline at day one and top priority tomorrow should be getting fiddlercrabontheroof's replacement to give reads in the game. innocentvillager needs to back up what he said in his one catchup post (and I'm disappointed that he's not here with a followup by now given what he had to say.) I should have had Jaack telling me why I'm wrong for wanting to hammer Gratuitous by now; I asked for it twice and I saw him logged on this evening and not posting when he should know that a lynch he opposes is about to go down.

We need activity. Don't give scum a chance to lurk to a win; be a force for town. From a purely numbers point of view most of you are town and you should want to win. I know that you've all got life outside this game, but if we can't be here during the end of the day and contributing at least a little why are we even playing?

Assuming I'm alive tomorrow I'll have plenty more to say. Normally I'd make this post in twilight, but I don't anticipate having a lot of time to post after I wake up so you're getting it early. Hopefully I'll wake up to lots of activity, but if not think about this over the night phase and come in day two swinging. Towns that are active give themselves a chance to win. Towns that aren't are giving away victory more times than not.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zorblag]

This game.

UNVOTE: RachMarie

VOTE: Gratuitous

Remember that you need to be here playing the game tomorrow.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[RachMarie]

I will be a bit less busy hopefully

I particularly want to see a lot more from crab in the next day phase that slot is pretty much as null as you can get

[Zorblag]

Here are some thoughts about the game state going into twilight.

Gratuitous as town or scum should have been on pushing a case on RachMarie, the other potential lynch of the day. The only way that might not make sense is if RachMarie is scum partners with him and he thinks the extra pressure leads to one of them going down today and the other tomorrow (or if she's a roleblocker and he'd rather that role stay given how compromised the two slots are suspicion-wise.) Even if he's partners with RachMarie I'd expect him to be here doing something, but instead we got nothing. The flip will tell us more, but going into a lynch that meekly is seldom good play (also, if you're close to getting lynched day one you're much better off attacking the players you think are scummiest (as town) or most vulnerable (as scum) is almost always better than trying to defend yourself.)

Jaack as either town or scum partnered with anyone other than RachMarie should have been here doing one of a couple of things. Given that he thinks Gratuitous is town and RachMarie is scummy the obvious move would be to get on the RachMarie wagon, taking it to L-1 and making a case for that being the better lynch. Were he scum and partnered with RachMarie that becomes a poorer play, though it might look good long term if he can get out of needing to stick with that tomorrow (which I think he could by going back to trying to get me lynched.) In that case I still expect him to get on and try to either do more to drum up support for my lynch or stop the support for Gratuitous. Not being here when the day was ending and he could have made a difference just isn't good.

RachMarie doesn't come out of this looking much better to me than she did going in. She's flipping a vote to the wagon which is the best chance of her salvation, and it feels like the switch is to the player she's set up to switch to when needed based on all the talk about the last game with Gratuitous. Having said that, I'm not sure if she has a better move to make as either alignment in the position she's in. If she's scum she'd rather Gratuitous be lynched than she is almost all the time (again, Gratuitous as a partner complicates that slightly,) and as town, unless she's really sure Gratuitous is town as well he's the better lynch from her perspective.

FoxBird's end of day seems fine to me. She could have gone to either the RachMarie or Gratuitous wagon from a game state point of view, and I'm happy enough with how she played it. I don't love the interactions with RachMarie, but, as I've already mentioned, I don't seem to agree with the reasoning that she's using somewhat often.

innocentvillager needs to be here tomorrow and do more. Same with Nachomamma8.

Actually, while I'm on Nachomamma8, the trouble that I mentioned back in Post 174 was that Nachomamma8 said that I wasn't going to get lynched this game. Scum Nachomamma8 would know that's probably true due both to my expected play and his ability to control night kills. Town Nachomamma8 should probably believe that I won't get lynched day 1 or 2 based on play expectations, but unless he knows I'm not scum he shouldn't assume that I don't ever get lynched. That's unlikely to be a scum slip, but it's at least noteworthy.

My hope is that fiddlercrabontheroof gets replaced during Night 1 (he failed to respond to a prod within 24 hours, but I'm not sure how Zaicon handles replacements during night phases.)

I didn't even think of ecane when I was typing the rest of this which is mostly a statement of how off my radar she is.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Zaicon]

Final Vote Count - Day 1

Gratuitous (5):

Nachomamma8, ecane, Foxbird, RachMarie, Zorblag

RachMarie (2):

Gratuitous, innocentvillager

Foxbird (1):

fiddlercrabontheroof

Zorblag (1):

Jaack

No Vote (0)

Gratuitous,

Vanilla Townie

, has been lynched.

It is now Night 1. The deadline is Saturday, July 30, at 4:00 PM CST, which is in (expired on 2016-07-30 16:00:00).

fiddlercrabontheroof requested replacement; I will find one before I end Night.

[Zaicon]

Still looking for a replacement.

[Zaicon]

No one has died Night 1.

---

►►Day 2◄◄

Vote Count 2.0

No Vote (8):

ecane, foedufafa, Foxbird, innocentvillager, Jaack, Nachomamma8, RachMarie, Zorblag

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 4:00 PM CST, which is in (expired on 2016-08-14 16:00:00).

[foedufafa]

What's up, innocent? Wanted to give this another try.

I'm just catching up on the game right now. Looks like my predecessors were really inactive so I'll turn that around soon.

[innocentvillager]

What's up, innocent? Wanted to give this another try.

I'm just catching up on the game right now. Looks like my predecessors were really inactive so I'll turn that around soon.

Hey what's up man? Glad to see you came back! That game is over now lol, that was kind of a crazy shitfest of a game lolol, this one has been proceeding for more peacefully

Also that NK fuck yeah doc

[innocentvillager]

I guess jk could've saved it too (or bp but that's a less desirable outcome I guess)

I think jail keeper or doctor should soft/crumb who they saved/jailed