Mini Normal 1814 Machiavellian Mafia (Game Over)

[Zap Rowsdower]

@Black: You're reading ira's post wrong. I'd let him explain it himself but clearly at this point he just doesn't understand what you're asking.

Ira was saying that scum know who is town, and town don't have a reason to lie. So if a town claims a PR, they must be telling the truth and are actually a PR. Thus, if ira were scum, he would "know" that Rosske was really a PR and not fakeclaiming.

Ofc the logic doesn't address the larger point of why Ira wasn't just content with a softclaim, and Ira's logic also ignores the many, many circumstances under which town fakeclaim PRs. But that's what ira was saying.

[Zap Rowsdower]

VOTE: BYF

Let's try this one.

[Zap Rowsdower]

Huh I don't think I've ever seen the "bump" button before. Weird.

[Nero Cain]

Ira, scumhunting is not super easy. Any town worth his/her grain in salt are going to have their reads change and flip flop as the game goes along. Only scum have need for staticy reads. It also doesn't help that what is a scumtell from one player might just be a derp tell from another. For example, I was in a game not to long ago with a player faking a post restriction, even though it was clear (or atleast looked clear) that they were a PR, the scum asked, thus rolefishing. Its very similar to you asking Ross to hard confirm that he's a power role. So yes, I think its scummy but I'm more than aware that this could just be bad town play. I think you've made some posts that are very scummy. You can read it here here and it doesn't help that you aren't really responding to them. My biggest issue is that your claim that my questioning the lack of resistance to a MAP wagon was "scum aligned" but you selectively used that tell.

As much as I think you are scum I'm also aware that I could be wrong and the players that are really against your wagon (Maria, Gerry, Elyse) could easily be the scum we are looking for. Apparently no one agrees with me but I still feel strongly that DW was setting up shop to push my lynch if you flipped town. I also don't think its impossible that you two are scumbuddies and he tries to scare me off the wagon.

I was scumreading CR early mostly for

I'm still ok to lynch [Maps] but Zap is climbing up on my scum list. All of his posts ping me so hard.

Confirmation bias alert. If all of his posts ping you so, then either you or he are doing something wrong. And since few others are pinged, save myself and I think also Maria, it's probably just his personality that bothers you.

I mean obviously you are scumreading him NOW but earlier on I don't remember you saying anything about him. So scum thats about to get lynched adds in his scumbuddy at the last minute so we'd be less likely to lynch him?

[MariaR]

Did...I just get called scum for not hammering my town read/being so sure they are town...That's the most hypocrite statement I've heard

[MariaR]

I need to jog. But the mafia is Nero black and map I'll say why when I get baxk

[Nero Cain]

Lets just pretend that's what I said.

Why is it hypocritical?

Why should I not consider that you are scum that knows Ira is town?

One of the tinfoils that I'm considering is that Ira is town and DW is scum which is why he said that one of us (me and Ira) had to be right about the other and when I called him on it his scumbuddies (CR and Maria) came in to defend him.

[MariaR]

I'm back from my jog now let me say Why I have those 3 marked as mafia now.

Ironically it started with Nero saying some reads can be wrong so I went back and read a few people I sr (Zap is the main one) I'm pretty sure a lot of the stuff I sr zap for was very nitpicky for me to do and I just wanted him to be scum so I could be right (Don't get me wrong Zap is still scummy but I'm lynching in the 3 I said) but rather win and say I was wrong then think I was right and lose

Reading Blacks statement again on how "If Ira was town scum would have hammered him strongly makes me think mafia were already voting him and who was already voting him?

Nero Black and Map

I forget who said it but they were right on how "If Ira is town he's a very easy ml" I agree with that statement and Black is going gun ho for it

Map has still done nothing to get the scumread I have on him off I don't see him doing anything that says "oh this is town map" I've played with map before when he was town EVERYONE townread him within the first 20 pages and I don't see that here at all the only thing he has going for him is the "bw was to fast no one tried to stop it" Bus is a thing.

Nero is scum because everything lines up for them to be his scum buddies him making a statement of "If you townread this person so hard you must be mafia who know he's town" is downright stupid because then I can just make the statement of "you scumread and push on this player because you know there town" It's like saying when the lynch is done you shouldn't look at the people who voted the person lynched but the people who didn't lynch it in the first place WHAT TYPE OF LOGIC OR IN ONLY WORLD DOES THAT MAKE SENSE

[Dwlee99]

nero i feel like you're super off track this game

[BlackStar]

I'm back from my jog now let me say Why I have those 3 marked as mafia now.

Ironically it started with Nero saying some reads can be wrong so I went back and read a few people I sr (Zap is the main one) I'm pretty sure a lot of the stuff I sr zap for was very nitpicky for me to do and I just wanted him to be scum so I could be right (Don't get me wrong Zap is still scummy but I'm lynching in the 3 I said) but rather win and say I was wrong then think I was right and lose

Reading Blacks statement again on how "If Ira was town scum would have hammered him strongly makes me think mafia were already voting him and who was already voting him?

Nero Black and Map

I forget who said it but they were right on how "If Ira is town he's a very easy ml" I agree with that statement and Black is going gun ho for it

Map has still done nothing to get the scumread I have on him off I don't see him doing anything that says "oh this is town map" I've played with map before when he was town EVERYONE townread him within the first 20 pages and I don't see that here at all the only thing he has going for him is the "bw was to fast no one tried to stop it" Bus is a thing.

Nero is scum because everything lines up for them to be his scum buddies him making a statement of "If you townread this person so hard you must be mafia who know he's town" is downright stupid because then I can just make the statement of "you scumread and push on this player because you know there town" It's like saying when the lynch is done you shouldn't look at the people who voted the person lynched but the people who didn't lynch it in the first place WHAT TYPE OF LOGIC OR IN ONLY WORLD DOES THAT MAKE SENSE

You're not really saying anything in this paragraph. Basically what it boils down to is that you were already scumreading me so you assume that I was trying to misdirect people and make them think my buddies weren't on the wagon. I don't really care if you scumread me, but you're not backing it up with anything. You said Ira is an easy mislynch. That doesn't mean that I'm scum for pushing hard for his death. Your reasoning for why you think I'm scum is as flimsy as your reasoning for why you think ira is town.

[BlackStar]

And I didn't even say that there weren't any scum on the wagon. I just thought that they probably weren't all on it and at least one of them was off the wagon

[MariaR]

We've been talking about literally nothing for like 4 days now. Plus I have a strong scum read on Ira and he's been so close to getting lynched this whole time. Of course I'm going to want him to be hammered. And if he was town, scum would've hammered him a long time ago instead of leaving him at l-1 for days

^ This is you saying Ira has to be scum because mafia would of hammered him hm? That's not even taking into account all scum could be on the wagon and I would have taken note to that right away if I was town you're trying to brush off my points saying there weak when I don't think you can even come with points against mine. If my points are so weak tell me why.

[Nero Cain]

nero i feel like you're super off track this game

I feel like you are scum and not doing anything.

[Nero Cain]

Maria did you ever make a post along the lines of "Map is not playing like he did when he played together."? 'cause I don't really remember you doing so. If not, why not?

I did say you

COULD

be scum not that you had to be scum if Ira flipped town (you know like DW did.) And its not like you, Gerry or Elyse have compelling reasons. Two of you ae arguing that Map/Yoshi are scummier and you are arguing that Ira couldn't play like this as scum so I don't see how these arguments are impossible to come from scum and why I should not consider you aas scum.

[BlackStar]

We've been talking about literally nothing for like 4 days now. Plus I have a strong scum read on Ira and he's been so close to getting lynched this whole time. Of course I'm going to want him to be hammered. And if he was town, scum would've hammered him a long time ago instead of leaving him at l-1 for days

^ This is you saying Ira has to be scum because mafia would of hammered him hm? That's not even taking into account all scum could be on the wagon and I would have taken note to that right away if I was town you're trying to brush off my points saying there weak when I don't think you can even come with points against mine. If my points are so weak tell me why.

You haven't made any points so far. You've just been saying "I think you're scum so I'm going to misinterpret everything that you say and not provide actual proof that you're scum." Can you list out your "points" so that I can properly address them? I didn't think all scum were on the wagon because they usually don't all jump onto a wagon right off the bat. There's nothing weird at all at thinking that not all of them were on the wagon at the time.

[MariaR]

Maria did you ever make a post along the lines of "Map is not playing like he did when he played together."? 'cause I don't really remember you doing so. If not, why not?

I did say you

COULD

be scum not that you had to be scum if Ira flipped town (you know like DW did.) And its not like you, Gerry or Elyse have compelling reasons. Two of you ae arguing that Map/Yoshi are scummier and you are arguing that Ira couldn't play like this as scum so I don't see how these arguments are impossible to come from scum and why I should not consider you aas scum.

I'm pretty sure I did say Map's not playing like he use to? Pretty sure

It's not that you shouldn't consider it that's 100% fine but the way you're wording it is acting like the people who wouldn't kill him are prime suspects and I find that out right foolish and from what I've seen you don't seem that foolish

[Map Wolf]

I'm back from my jog now let me say Why I have those 3 marked as mafia now.
Map has still done nothing to get the scumread I have on him off I don't see him doing anything that says "oh this is town map" I've played with map before when he was town EVERYONE townread him within the first 20 pages and I don't see that here at all the only thing he has going for him is the "bw was to fast no one tried to stop it" Bus is a thing.

I can see what you mean by this, and it would be stupid to claim that i've been playing well this game i admit that many of my reads have been off. To me being hard to townread doesn't bother me nearly as much as if i was scum (or PR) nor does it mean that i am scum. Like i have said earlier i am not really sure who we want to lynch, and that is my main problem right now. I am sure that i am alnost certainly not going to be nightkilled due to my VT claim, so at least i can "sleep" well at night.

[Nero Cain]

I'm pretty sure I did say Map's not playing like he use to? Pretty sure

pls quote it, I can't find it. My problem is, if you had a meta scum read on Map that would have changed discussion but I don't remember seeing it/didn't see it.

[Nero Cain]

It's not that you shouldn't consider it that's 100% fine but the way you're wording it is acting like the people who wouldn't kill him are prime suspects and I find that out right foolish and from what I've seen you don't seem that foolish

Lets just pretend that's what my post was saying, why is my post saying that I would consider you Gerry and Elyse as my top suspects but DW pushing me as scum if Ira wasn't scum not scummy?

[Dwlee99]

nero i feel like you're super off track this game

I feel like you are scum and not doing anything.

nah i'm town and not doing anything lol

[Nero Cain]

This is the VC. We have 17 hours left. A no lynch is a stupid thing on d1.

Map Wolf: Elyse, MariaR, BigYoshiFan [L-4]
iraonavp: BlackStar, Comparing Realities, Nero Cain, Map Wolf [L-2]
Elyse: iraonavp [L-6]
BigYoshiFan: gerryoat, Rosske, Zap Rowsdowe [L-4]

Not voting (2) - Wake 88, Dwlee

DW and Wake pls decide on what wagon you'd like to join.

[Nero Cain]

nero i feel like you're super off track this game

I feel like you are scum and not doing anything.

nah i'm town and not doing anything lol

Even if you have a green pm you aren't town but I'm p sure you are scum here.

[Dwlee99]

nero i feel like you're super off track this game

I feel like you are scum and not doing anything.

nah i'm town and not doing anything lol

Even if you have a green pm you aren't town but I'm p sure you are scum here.

what

[Dwlee99]

i'd probz join map

[Nero Cain]

ok join it