Open 651: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[lilith2013]

Votecount 1.014

I am now first in pagetops!

light_ganski [3]

Lycanfire, shaddowez, Raskolnikov

SoraAdvent [2]

NJAC, Vedith

NJAC [3]

superbowl9, SoraAdvent, Hebee Inc

Hebee Inc [1]

HighHopes

Lycanfire [1]

light_ganski

Not Voting [1]

kyndy101, Sir Bastion

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline: (expired on 2016-08-22 01:30:00)

pagetop count: Lilith 4 | Vedith 3 | HighHopes 2 | NJAC 2 | light_ganski 2 | Hebee Inc 1 | shaddowez 1 | kyndy101 1

Edited to reflect Sir Bastion's unvote

[shaddowez]

I am now first in pagetops!

Which obvs makes you scum! (or an FA alt....)

[light_ganski]

What changed your kyndy town read to neutral/hard to read?
If Hebee is hard to read, why is 396 the only time you mention them, instead of interacting and trying to form reads?

My original kyndy read was weak and based more on my gut feelings than anything else. In 357, she does two things I don't like: first says HH's playstyle is townie before saying she doesn't like HH's style of simply summarising reads - I don't see the need for her to effectively contradict himself here. Why exactly is she bothered with Sora's 342?
Overall I don't feel like I've been given much reasoning in her posts to town read or scum read her. If you put a gun to my head and asked town or scum I'd say town but only on pure gut feelings I've had all game.

Hebee hasn't said enough IMO. Their 193 would make me lean town if they'd said more but he hasn't. Would like to see if any of those 'unreadables' have changed for them.

[light_ganski]

VOTE: Lycanfire

Okay with <5 days till deadline you should probably either be convincing us really well and really fast to wagon Lycan or just voting one of the people being wagoned that you most want to lynch (NJAC based on your 396 reads)

I think I've said I'm fine with lynching NJAC if it comes down to it but my gut scum read on Lycanfire is much stronger. Will jot up a few thoughts here:

Lycan's first post is 86 where he comes in and RVS votes Vedith, at a stage where we're already out of RVS in my opinion. He makes a couple of jokey posts before switching to superbowl in what seems to be

another

random vote at a very late stage. In 99 + 101 he then switches onto me for rather questionable reasoning. This was the point at which I first suggested he could be opportunistic scum, but he then didn't post for some time and I sort of forgot about him which is evident in the fact I put him as neutral in my first reads post.

In my other reads post I said he was playing antitown but didn't feel as if I could place him down as town or scum at the tie (being that he was a bit of an afterthought to my reads as he hadn't posted in some time, to which he responds in 266 practically instructing me to town or scum read him. At the time I made that reads post I was struggling to build a read out of the small number of posts he'd made but an overall look at his ISO doesn't impress me.

He later says 266 was his jokepost which looks bad if he's not being sarcastic and I don't think he is, that post consists of the majority of the content he has made.

[superbowl9]

I think I've said I'm fine with lynching NJAC if it comes down to it but my gut scum read on Lycanfire is much stronger.

What I'm saying is that time is now. This is how no lynches happen. The deadline comes a lot faster than you expect and the last thing we want as town is to have no decisive wagon on the same day as deadline. You trying to start a wagon on someone very few people are scumreading with this little time left (when you have a scumread with a wagon on them already) is not helping town unless you have some sort of big bombshell that would convince everyone to wagon lycan.

[NJAC]

@SB:

Have you seen no lynches very often?

I think we have plenty of time, why the hurry?

[NJAC]

That was addressed to superbowl ^

[Sir Bastion]

That was addressed to superbowl ^

you did that knowing I wrote a lengthy response didnt you.


goddamnit.

[NJAC]

What? I don't follow your comment?

[Sir Bastion]

@SB

sir bastion

Sir Bastion


I was answering your question about no lynches then got the follow up post.

[NJAC]

What is really interesting is that NJAC follows this up soon by somewhat agreeing with my post suspecting Vedith in 119, then immediately turning around and saying that Vedith is a part of the town-team in 120.

@Sora:

I agree with what you said about Vedith. I'm also not a fan of his recent posts.

However Kindy is more in the townie side of null for me, but I'll let her defend herself.

So, we are the Town-Team. Why is Lycan listed with us?

Hold your horses! You're misrepping me here .

1)

119 was in response to your 114 (partially quoted below). In it you didn't explicitly said you were suspecting him, you rather expressed some concerns on him but I'm pretty sure you called him town. I mean, with your wishy-washy long "read" on him, you said you liked him but at the same time you didn't like him. Look:

Vedith - I suppose the most notable things about Vedith are twofold. One, his reaction towards the scumteam suggestion NJAC put out, and two, his response.

I like the way that Vedith's acted so far, as he's definitely showing a willingness to contribute though he admits that the overall aim of the discussion was pointless - it definitely seems to be a town-oriented mindset

. However, his reactions towards kyndy101 and the other voters seem to be a little bit of an overreaction considering the relative lack of pressure on him. In that sense, then, I agree with Lycan's assessment that he's being over-defensive. What's more, he doesn't seem to be doing scumhunting on his own later on, which leads me to consider that he was participating in discussion for the sake of taking part in discussion. He also seems to have a few relatively useless posts that I'm not a fan of. They seem to be aimed at diffusing the tension while not contributing much at all - which is something I definitely don't like. Overall, though, I'm going to keep an eye on him and completely understand why people would vote against him.

The bolded part is something I agreed with, and the other concerns I partially agreed, because I was also in the process of reading him. So yeah, I agreed with what you said about Vedith but not completely and exhaustively. I especially agreed with the bolded part. I added that I didn't like his, at that moment, recent posts, and that was my way of saying I agreed with some of the concerns you expressed but not to the level of putting him in the scum pile.

2)

In 120 I didn't say Vedith was part of the Town-Team. Here you're lying. When I said "we are the Town-Team", that "we" was to mean those in the list. Vedith wasn't in the list. In fact he used his sarcasm to say we were not his buddies. So Shadow, Lycan and me were supposed to be the Town-Team, and Vedith wasn't our buddy.

This is really a bad attempt to make me look bad ScumSora. You can do it better .

More in another post because this one is already lengthy.

[NJAC]

@SB

sir bastion

Sir Bastion


I was answering your question about no lynches then got the follow up post.

Sorry. I realized you had been called SB through the game so I had to clarify.

Anyway feel free to answer that if you want .

[NJAC]

Votecount 1.014

I am now first in pagetops!

light_ganski [3]

Lycanfire, shaddowez, Raskolnikov

SoraAdvent [3]

NJAC, Vedith, Sir Bastion

NJAC [3]

superbowl9, SoraAdvent, Hebee Inc

Hebee Inc [1]

HighHopes

Lycanfire [1]

light_ganski

Not Voting [1]

kyndy101

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline: (expired on 2016-08-22 01:30:00)

pagetop count: Lilith 4 | Vedith 3 | HighHopes 2 | light_ganski 2 | Hebee Inc 1 | NJAC 1 | shaddowez 1 | kyndy101 1

FTR:

Light's wagon is not scumdriven.
Sora's wagon is not scumdriven.
NJAC's wagon has at least one scum in it.

[NJAC]

I think superbowl is more in the townie side of null, so that leaves Sora and Hebee as potential scum on my wagon.

[NJAC]

As for the rest of your 328, @Sora, I'm not going to comment on all the BS you say there.

I was defending Vedith because I disagreed with some people reading him as scum. Is that your reason for calling me scum? Bah!

My first interactions with Vedith gave me good town vibes. Other posts from him also gave me town vibes. As you said in your 114 (what I bolded in one of my previous posts), he was "definitely showing a willingness to contribute".

If you want me to comment on something specific let me know.

[NJAC]

OK here's

So for the vast majority of the game NJAC and Vedith seem to be reading each other as town based on this interaction here near the beginning of the game, after NJAC initially calls out Shadow for selfvotinghere in 20.

Then, after shadow posts this:

It's unlikely scum would be questioning my alignment

Vedith immediately agrees by posting this:

It's unlikely scum would be questioning my alignment

Shadow and NJAC are town then.
We're getting somewhere!

Agreeing with the IC immediately is something I didn't pick up on before, and that's a little suspicious in and of itself, how he just flat-out agrees without stating any reasoning whatsoever. The later posts seem to indicate he's not being sarcastic, either, since he maintains this throughout the game. Soon after he makes this post, which 'confirms' a town-team of NJAC/Lycan/Shadow with very little evidence of Lycan.

What is really interesting is that NJAC follows this up soon by somewhat agreeing with my post suspecting Vedith in 119, then immediately turning around and saying that Vedith is a part of the town-team in 120.

@Sora:

I agree with what you said about Vedith. I'm also not a fan of his recent posts.

However Kindy is more in the townie side of null for me, but I'll let her defend herself.

So, we are the Town-Team. Why is Lycan listed with us?

My theory is that he doesn't want to appear suspicious by immediately jumping to Vedith's defence as soon as I attacked him, regardless if Vedith's town or not, because if he did so it'll be really obvious that he's trying to protect him. In fact, if we assume Vedith's town and NJAC is trying to curry his favor (being aware of this), 120 becomes fascinating. He refers to Vedith as we even though there's no evidence supporting Vedith as town at that point. Sure, you could argue that NJAC's townslip was evidence of him being town, but on that basis alone he considered Vedith town himself? The fact that there's not an iota of suspicion on NJAC ironically makes me suspicious of him.

Or I could just be reading this wrong and it's sarcasm, so sue me.

~~~~

OK, so I may be reading way too far into this one, but I really don't like the feel of NJAC's defense of Vedith one bit in this post here.

I don't see a "solid case" against Vedith, and many of your points against him are based on posts he made after you announced your "solid case".

Your arguments seem forced and written just for the sake of supossedly support a scumread, but I have to say they're weak and most of the posts of Vedith are saturated with sarcasm (a bigger dose of it than what I'd like to read, tbh) more than scumminess.

However, this one is a valid point and I want to see Vedith's response:

Why would reactions mean nothing? Also, why are you overlooking Light Ganski's comment by offering the point of looking for a reaction?

While, yes, this is the style of posting that NJAC has adopted (clear from his posts within the game, don't know his meta at all), I don't like the way it's written. Yes, I don't think kyndy's post was very well reasoned, but NJAC doesn't provde any reasoning at all. He says that they're weak and saturated with sarcasm, but doesn't note any examples within her post or explain why they're weak. He makes a point that her posts have come after, but it still seems like a stretch to me, and the softball question he quotes to Vedith seems to me to be an attempt to balance his post out to appear less scummy.

Let's compare this to his post against me.

@Sora WRT 156:
You initially supported Bastion's push on Kindy with arguments in 114 like

"I actually both agree and disagree with Sir Bastion that the random RVS unvote is somewhat suspicious"

(so you agree but at the same time disagree? ), and now that the wagon on Vedith is starting to gain some traction you suddenly end up supporting Kindy's push on him.

IDK but to me your post seems as an excuse to opportunistically vote Vedith.

I'm happy with my vote on you.

When he sees that my post on Vedith starts ramping things up a little more (eventually leading to his claim of Goon Cop), then he does immediately start to react against me (perhaps he didn't think kyndy was worth the time to respond to). I'd like to focus on the second part the quote, which I've quoted. He believes that my explanation isn't adequate, and that the wagon is heating up -

the most important thing to note is that at the time he posted, Vedith only had two votes.

Yes, he may think that my paragraph of explaining why I don't like Vedith's posting is fine, and that's all well and good, but to me (and this is just an emotional read), he seems to be flustered that I'm attacking him. This then makes me think that he's just focused on defending him, and I find it hard to believe it's simply because Vedith calls him town.

This ties in to his reads post here as well.

@NJAC: Can you please give reads of some sort? I'd love to see who you consider to be the prime suspect now, if you don't mind.

Yep, I was going to give my reads after commenting on some recent posts. A bit of patience please.

Leaning scum: Sora, superbowl.
Null: light, kindy, Lycan, everyone else
Leaning town: Bastian, Vedith, shadow

Guess which two people had a scumlean on Vedith? Superbowl had his reads in 154, and I voted for him as well.

~~~~

At this point the post is looking pretty crowded but posts like 187, 218 and 221 aren't exactly helping this case. In conclusion, I honestly think Vedith is probably town at this point and NJAC might be just trying to buddy up with him to garner his favor.

That being said, VOTE: NJAC

Have to leave now. More later...

[NJAC]

F**king quotes. Ignore the quote in my previous post please.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: Heebee

Light's return is actually alright. Not doing NJAC, would prefer not sora either but eh.

[Raskolnikov]

Light's wagon is surprisingly light, he's made some really stupid posts with one particular standing out (which I already highlighted) but I am going to have to be unpopular and say he's town and I will oppose any move to lynch him today.

But why though?

Still want this answered though.

[superbowl9]

@SB:

Have you seen no lynches very often?

I think we have plenty of time, why the hurry?

No, I've never seen a no lynch.
What I have seen, however, is shitty, last second wagons/lynches that either don't leave time for a claim and reaction or basically allows scum to wagon whoever they want, since everybody suddenly starts panicking the last day before deadline and ridiculous startup wagons begin to sound like a good idea.

The deadline comes faster than you expect.

Things can come up too, and can limit your access (or sometimes you just have busy days). It does not make sense to screw around with pointless votes this close to the deadline, especially when your second lynch candidate has a wagon. Why would you wait around until the last second, which is beneficial to scum when you have the opportunity not to?

[Raskolnikov]

@Bowl NJAC's very unlikely to happen given most people not on are opposed. Can you do hebee with me?

[Raskolnikov]

@Sora what do you make of lycan after the big post?

[superbowl9]

No, I don't want hebee. I think there's better options and wanna hear more. I'd probly join if its the main wagon with like 1-2 days left.

[Lycanfire]

Lycan's first post is 86 where he comes in and RVS votes Vedith, at a stage where we're already out of RVS in my opinion.

The game went up in the middle of the night for me. I was a sleep. Went to work. Tried to have an evening to myself, then caught up on my mafia games and posted 27 hours into the game at page 5. Deal with it.

He makes a couple of jokey posts before switching to superbowl in what seems to be

another

random vote at a very late stage.

this was 100% serious

In 99 + 101 he then switches onto me for rather questionable reasoning. This was the point at which I first suggested he could be opportunistic scum, but he then didn't post for some time and I sort of forgot about him which is evident in the fact I put him as neutral in my first reads post.

you practically put a lynch me sign on top of yourself. maybe i'm just opportunistic town.

In my other reads post I said he was playing antitown but didn't feel as if I could place him down as town or scum at the tie (being that he was a bit of an afterthought to my reads as he hadn't posted in some time, to which he responds in 266 practically instructing me to town or scum read him. At the time I made that reads post I was struggling to build a read out of the small number of posts he'd made but an overall look at his ISO doesn't impress me.

if you read me as anti town you're not reading me as null. you have material to read me with you simply choose not to. passivity is scum.

He later says 266 was his jokepost which looks bad if he's not being sarcastic and I don't think he is, that post consists of the majority of the content he has made.

dunno why you're complaining when you make lots of jokeposts

[kyndy101]

Alright guys! Off I go to reread Sora and Light to see if I want to join either wagon. I think last time I had a reads list they were mostly null, so.. We'll see what this brings up