ROLE MADNESS: Dead Thread

[mhsmith0]

Dead men tell no tales.

Spectators

Sircakez

Nahdia

Equinox

Ircher

GuyInFreezer

Beeboy

TellTaleHeart

Elbirn

infinity 324

Grendel

itlepip

inspectorscout

pieguyn

Cerberus v666

[mhsmith0]

No

t yet

[mhsmith0]

I give up

^ scum claim right there lets lynch him guys
VOTE: cakey

[mhsmith0]

I wanted to use an automatic vote counter but both didn't work on my computer.

What's this about an automatic vote counter? That would be super helpful for my upcoming mini normal.

[mhsmith0]

@wake: who do you think will totally blow it?

[mhsmith0]

The good news is both wolf factions are in the hood too

[mhsmith0]

Well, shit.

Someone accidentally slipped Mason in a Neighborhood already.

Funny you should guess that...

[mhsmith0]

It's funny, the original format was 32/5/5 with almost all townies as PRs. The current format... is not that . I'd have actually been cool w something like 26/8/8 but that's probably too scum sided without beefing up the town PRs even more.

Fwiw I really like the way we built the SK role, and I think our sk is happy with it too. Though frankly in a 41v1 game (from sk perspective) that slot damn well SHOULD be ridiculously overpowered in the night game given what it's up against.

Speaking of which... Anyone have a lean on our SK yet?

[mhsmith0]

150 pages I'll guess unofficially. Low balling it but an early maj wouldn't surprise me.

[mhsmith0]

+1

[mhsmith0]

Bee boy and Elbirn, you have randed scum. Good luck fooling the graveyard thread!

[mhsmith0]

Shit it's a jester abort abort
VOTE: beeboy

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: Mhsmith

^ wolf claim right there friends

[mhsmith0]

W.r.t. Boems MU lol catting note, still my fave MU lol catting note...

lenny, you were still wolfing when the wolves were 6:4 and had 2 vigs left to process

just start posting lolcats at that point like a decent person

Probes my fave because I was a winning wolf in that one tho
(happens rarely enough lol)

[mhsmith0]

One scum team talking about possibly fake claiming Masons. That would certainly throw the game into a different direction (since the other scum team would just shoot at them lol)

[mhsmith0]

150 pages I'll guess unofficially. Low balling it but an early maj wouldn't surprise me.

[mhsmith0]

Or you could

[mhsmith0]

But hc power sucks though? I don't see how her claim saves her at all here tbh.

[mhsmith0]

But hc power sucks though? I don't see how her claim saves her at all here tbh.

[mhsmith0]

It's only a shame if it happens to me.
If it happens to someone else, it's hilarious.

Obligatory Mel brooks time

Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall into an open sewer and die.

[mhsmith0]

@hot chocolate: in case you're a newbie and arent really sure what happened and why, I'd suggest trying out the newbie queue. People (I think) read your tone as fake and a way to try and avoid scum-hunting. If you want more advice, there are a lot of good and/or experienced players here, free to ask around and see how next game can go better potentially.

[mhsmith0]

I'll confess I'm rooting for the one

[mhsmith0]

Theres so much town power though that they SHOULD get useful stuff (investigations, vigs, docs, watches etc) but with 4 factions the odds are against them. I'd ballpark...

40% town
25% each scum faction
10% sk

Could easily be wrong tho *shrugs*

[mhsmith0]

Given the roles on the board (plus the neighborhoods and the presumed distributions of wolves in them), 32:5:5 was just ridiculous. Like it would have been flat out embarrassing for a town to lose the original setup.

[mhsmith0]

Notables: wolves have ZERO shots/traits of:

Ninja
Strongman
Godfather
Ascetic

Both teams have a role blocker, but the other wolf roles aren't great. Neapolitan in role madness is close to a fruit vendor, and both teams have a flat out goon too. I kinda think it's STILL town sided tbh.

[mhsmith0]

Honestly, given the original role distribution, if you made it 32/10 (combined the scum teams together) I'd give town realistic odds of pulling it out.

[mhsmith0]

Really?

I may have to try that sometime, but honestly I feel multiball is pretty much ALWAYS good for Town.

Yeah. My point was that even if it wasn't multi ball, the distribution at least possibly favors town. Multi ball just made it very town favored IMO.

[mhsmith0]

All three Masons were outed...?

Basically a big by the masons (or one of them anyway).

[mhsmith0]

It depends on the roles. W few PRs, 6/7 wolves probably fine. In Role madness,unless the wolf roles legitimately counter town power (here they really don't) you need higher numbers.

[mhsmith0]

I started on play dip, also play on MU.

Fwiw, even a +10% modifier brings town EV to like 35%. And I'd think town should be +10% or more over a LONG game even without PRs. And in a pr heavy game, town gets vigs, docs, watches, jks etc, all of which pay off substantially.

[mhsmith0]

We gave a lot of power to the SK, but he/she/it/they will really need it. 41 opponents, and no one as an ally to provide advice, deflect criticism/momentum, etc. Hell of a hard road to hoe.

[mhsmith0]

Fortunately the SK seems happy w the rand. We gave the SK a personal diary PT. We'll see how that goes.

[mhsmith0]

Looking at EV calculator, if you have 10/3, with town at +10%, you get town win rate of 40%. And in a large game with a bunch of PR's, including ivestigative, killing, blocking, protecting, I'd think the votechance should be solidly north of 10%.

So if I use 24 v 6 at +15% (I think highly reasonable given the role madness structure whether the best roles are town roles), you get town win of 40%. Adding 8 town (to 32) and 4 wolves (to 10) probably scum-sides it compared to 24v6, but you also get multiple more days of voting and posting data and chances for the wolves to self out in the process. So yeah 32/10 is probably too scum-sided, even in the role madness structure, but I 'd submit not by all that much. Something like 33/9 with these roles/neighborhoods/etc is I think pretty reasonable for a town v scum setup. Then again I'm probably more or less on the far end of the philosophical balancing scale lol

PS on a shorter note... "reviewed by mhsmith0" is probably a good sign you have little risk of being in a severely town-sided structure

[mhsmith0]

Looking at EV calculator, if you have 10/3, with town at +10%, you get town win rate of 40%. And in a large game with a bunch of PR's, including ivestigative, killing, blocking, protecting, I'd think the votechance should be solidly north of 10%.

So if I use 24 v 6 at +15% (I think highly reasonable given the role madness structure whether the best roles are town roles), you get town win of 40%. Adding 8 town (to 32) and 4 wolves (to 10) probably scum-sides it compared to 24v6, but you also get multiple more days of voting and posting data and chances for the wolves to self out in the process. So yeah 32/10 is probably too scum-sided, even in the role madness structure, but I 'd submit not by all that much. Something like 33/9 with these roles/neighborhoods/etc is I think pretty reasonable for a town v scum setup. Then again I'm probably more or less on the far end of the philosophical balancing scale lol

PS on a shorter note... "reviewed by mhsmith0" is probably a good sign you have little risk of being in a severely town-sided structure

It's more likely severely scum-sided imo.

[mhsmith0]

Mod confirms IC though. Pulling that shit near deadline as a non IC is basically a scum claim if it results in a no lynch.

[mhsmith0]

I also saw a townie fake claim tracker on day 1 to avoid lynch. It... did not go well. Then again I subbed in D2 (as wolf) and got lynched D2 and town eventually won, so I guess it sorta worked out for them after all

[mhsmith0]

Vig-kill just in.

Also Doc has decided to shift the protect from Mafia to SK.

But fire claimed ascetic...

It's not fire. One guess down 40 to go.

[mhsmith0]

The only hint is that the sk seems happy w the rand. Also has a 0% chance of ever dying at night.

[mhsmith0]

This may be a decent night for town after all. Two investigations onto a goon (one rb but one not), and a gunsmith onto another Mafiosi. Otoh, four deaths, all town. Bizarrely, no mason deaths coming tho.

[mhsmith0]

Also: another townie is getting watched, and visited by two different Mafia non killing PRs. Town is going to get a LOT of info from this night if they handle it right.

[mhsmith0]

Like I said, 32/5/5 was horrific to the wolves. Wolf teams each have an rb but otherwise a grab bag of meh powers. Zero ninjas, strongmen, godfathers, doctors, etc. meanwhile town has a watcher, tracker, Doctor, backup Doctor,vig, backup vig, three Mason's, a bunch of neighborhoods, a jk, gunsmith, three joats etc.

[mhsmith0]

Tbh the super sk was also a necessary adjustment to reduce towns OP ness. Too many ways for town to just crush this game through night actions.

[mhsmith0]

Ebwop: four joats. And a good chunk of the joat powers were good (wacth, doc, jk, etc - every joat had at least two strong powers).

[mhsmith0]

We had a fun discussion on that in mod thread lol.

[mhsmith0]

But town roles are so strong I don't think that one really matters tbh.

[mhsmith0]

If the Neighbors trust each other it's possible they can function like Masons

It's also possible if neighbors trust each other they'll blow the game (since MOST hoods here have 1+ wolves)

[mhsmith0]

Wow double role block of one player.

[mhsmith0]

Oh, yeah, mhsmith was a reviewer

?

[mhsmith0]

Anyone want to guess targets of
Town vig
Sk
Blue mafia
Red mafia
?

[mhsmith0]

Mhsmith0
Mhsmith0
Mhsmith0
Wake88

At least four if these guesses are wrong

[mhsmith0]

Blanche - Jailkeeper/Neighbor
shos - Motion Detector/Neighbor
Blackstar - Friendly Neighbor
Fire Assassin - Ascetic Citizen/Neighbor

One by vig one by sk two by scum, anyone want o guess which was which?

[mhsmith0]

Town has:
1) gunsmith on a scum
2) an investigative result that a claim was a lie
3) a watcher seeing two people visit a townie who was role blocked (amusingly, BOTH teams role blocked the same slot)

A wealth of info from,last night, despite four town deaths.

[mhsmith0]

Who shot who spoilers or keep guessing?

[mhsmith0]

I won't spoil names, ESPECIALLY the SK.

[mhsmith0]

Blanche - Vigged
shos - Burned
Blackstar - Sk'd
Fire Assassin - Frozen

[mhsmith0]

Well balance is assumed. That's why there's a reviewer. But I don't know that maths assumptions about HOW things balance are accurate.

Ps another example of why it had to be 29/6/6/1, people can be held accountable for their night actions here, makes it much harder for scum to do scummy things at night. Ira did something scummy, only ? Is if it was an actual wolf or a town screwup.

[mhsmith0]

Things are reasonbaly balanced, just not in a normal way. I take game balance seriously when I review, and I think the game is reasonably balanced in the ways that matter. And I still think it's town sided lol.

[mhsmith0]

Nope u were. Black star was Sk'd, though by an sk who wants to potentially claim good vig shots later on fwiw.

[mhsmith0]

Enough guilties that town has more options me than rope lol. Including one guilty that is currently being all but shouted across the board.

[mhsmith0]

You were killed by town vig. Not maiming who it is tho.

[mhsmith0]

In fairness I haven't been reading thread close enough to have a good opinion, but yeah there were some pretty obviously decent shots, some of which were on wolves.

[mhsmith0]

Sk has a thread, vig doesn't so idk. Otoh there are obvious Wolves on the board today, a decent % of which are actually wolves. I would think vig makes a good shot tonight,

[mhsmith0]

Almost everyone is a neighbor this game. Not spoiling sk.

[mhsmith0]

Part of why this is town sided is that town can impose mass accountability for role night actions early on, maybe even by day 3. Makes it really hard for wolves to get away with careless or scum-positive power usage.

[mhsmith0]

Why is there a neapolitan

And a motion detector

In a role madness game

Just put in a couple more vigs instead

Town has a massive amount of investigative power. Less so on the killing, but a big and backup vig is still useful.

[mhsmith0]

Wanna bet? They can basically create a queue of outed wolves for a vig or sk or other team to shoot at. Plus doc and jk had potential to block nks.

[mhsmith0]

The vig shooting the jk was obviously really bad for town tho. Ditto all four kills hitting different town targets.

[mhsmith0]

Not unless wolves claim vt. Motion detector is basically fruit vendor but neo has potential to be useful.

[mhsmith0]

Town specifically has a neo AND a vanilla cop. That's a "catch the goon" combo right there if they target correctly.

[mhsmith0]

Then again the vanilla cop holstered for who knows what reason. Not only town pr to holster either.

[mhsmith0]

Town specifically has a neo AND a vanilla cop. That's a "catch the goon" combo right there if they target correctly.

The chances of them coincidentally targeting the same person are essentially nil.

Except a vanilla cop should also target a vt claim...

[mhsmith0]

Sk should start making wolfy shots. As ninja should 100% shoot cookies tonight and get a frame out of it.

[mhsmith0]

Wolves in this game have IMO been fairly careless w night actions. They're turning a structurally town sided game into what could be a runaway town win (or MAYBE a friendly environment for sk to turkey shoot without scrutiny).

But day 2 has 100% validated my strong objection to 32/5/5.

[mhsmith0]

Spoiler: early town MVP

Boem is early town MVP for a good night action that outs BOTH mafia role blockers.

[mhsmith0]

Spoiler: early town MVP

Boem is early town MVP for a good night action that outs BOTH mafia role blockers.

wow

Yep. Lucky break in some respects, but the structure of the game created opportunities like that. In a large role madness, wolves have to presume they'll be held accountable for night actions. Neither team had much of a "ok here's what this role would do if town, therefore do that" discussion. I think it's town vs sk at this point. Hard to see a win from either mafia factions tbh.

[mhsmith0]

Review response to original 32/5/5 setup

I look at this game and think town is just crazy overpowered on numbers and PRs. Like I'd almost suggest replacing a citizen with a sk that can only be strong manned or lynched, and is investigative immune, ninja, and strongman himself, just for the sake of making it less unfair. IMO a reasonably decent town should just destroy this game.

Bragbragbrag
(Wake materially nerfed sk and added 2 goons instead, which was better IMO)

[mhsmith0]

Why do u think hydra SK?

[mhsmith0]

Yes but that wasn't necessarily due to hydra I suggested it pre rand, because it's fun to give a role like that a pt as a diary.

[mhsmith0]

There's a reason cookies is doing it this way btw, at least one occurs to me #mindmeld

[mhsmith0]

Oh man, egg admitted to role blocking with a flipped JK

Egg AND town block actually lol.

[mhsmith0]

What do u think the reason is btw?

[mhsmith0]

Day 2 is a lesson on how to not craft your claim, real or fake.

+1000
Fwiw if I had to do it over again I'd suggest both goons were 1-shot ninjas instead. But that wasn't really what hurt them. Lots and lots of outed wolves, and at least half really are wolves. Town basically just arguing over which very likely wolf to lynch first.

[mhsmith0]

Anyone want to make a list of seemingly outed wolves and guess how many are actually mafia? I can throw that list together tonight too btw.

[mhsmith0]

Egg, town block, ccc, Ira, dgb, bacde, accountant all have things in thread highly suggestive of them being wolves and/or have strong stated suspicion on them and/or have attracted votes. That's seven players, anyone want to guess how many wolves in that list?

[mhsmith0]

Probably not a bad idea to specify blue Mafia by writing it out though people know it's multi ball so not really a bug deal either way tbh.

[mhsmith0]

Wow that sounds like my scum game too :p

[mhsmith0]

Oh. Well, I'd say practice makes perfect. Fwiw I'm good at avoiding rope as town, bad at it as a wolf. And those two probably feed into each other too *shrugs*
Though in this case, cookie's semi guilty on you and how you handled it largely gave you away. I'd say don't be afraid to ask for help/advice in scum chat when someone is hard-tunneling you in a way that suggests a guilty. Hard to avoid the rope regardless, but advice can sometimes make it go away or make people think "eh, keep it for another day" or the like.

[mhsmith0]

I might try a large role madness at some point. The idea behind them is fun I think.

[mhsmith0]

Yeah I may use that in my mini normal too. Hand-running vcs is annoying

[mhsmith0]

In large games it's a huge pain in the ass. I've done vote counts in excel tho. Does let u put in more info, such as

Votecount 3.03

BTD6_Maker (4)JaeReed , Charloux , Chip Butty , Murdercat

LYNCH!

,

Chip Butty (2)

ReallySick , BTD6_Maker ,

Not Voting (1)

Dionysus and Ariadne ,

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-07-19 00:00:00)

Please stand by for an official vote count from Ranger.

[mhsmith0]

I find modding easier, and more enjoyable, than playing. am I weird?

Ask me again after I finish my own MS modded game

[mhsmith0]

but if I have to put on an act to look Townish when I am Town, then... well, that raises all sorts of questions.

if this is what that would feel like for you, then almost definitely you've just had bad luck with being scum read, btw.

Ccc what was your town game where you were lynched?

[mhsmith0]

[mhsmith0]

Don't facepalm @ everything mhsmith!

Actually to be fair the shot isn't as bad as I first thought. I could see why a vig might suspect that slot. Not ideal but not that bad.

[mhsmith0]

Kinda. Though this time it'll be a lurker vig, which at least isn't horribly unproductive.

[mhsmith0]

I guess foxbird.

Quoting for posterity

[mhsmith0]

Incidentally, based on submitted night actions (so far) no one is using any investigative powers on either claimed roleblocker.

[mhsmith0]

Im openly rooting for the sk. It's just so difficult to win 41v1, I'd be super impressed if "she" pulls it out.

[mhsmith0]

Like, the sk was mainly built as a check on towns OP-ness. It's still mechanically the least likely faction to win in this setup despite being until able at night. #s just so hard against, and investigations can create traps.

[mhsmith0]

Still, the sk needs to win it in the day, and that's really where the challenge comes in.

[mhsmith0]

I kinda think that this would be a good time for sk to just go wild and make scummy kills tbh. Deprive town of obv!towns and/or investigatives, and live at day by pushing outed or semi-outed wolves, and then shoot at wolves if/as necessary to balance #s. Then see what can be claimed late game.

[mhsmith0]

It's a short pt so far. Was hoping it'd be a longer diary, but there's still time for things to change.

[mhsmith0]

Per Ircher's request, I won't use a facepalm, though damn I want to

[mhsmith0]

Sorry dead people

[mhsmith0]

I still think the setup is town-sided. Last night's PR actions were, in at least a few instances, bizarre. Still, some info was gotten, so far from a total loss. The JOAT deaths hurt quite a bit though.

[mhsmith0]

Well varsoon just outed his gunsmith non-result on DGB. Va11 rightly chided him for the outing, but no one seemed inclined to chide him for the target. Two claimed RB's on the board, both caught doing sketchy things N1, and neither gunsmith investigates either of them? Either they're town RB's and need to be prodded into making better uses of their powers, or they're VERY STRONG scum roles that need to be lynched/vigged ASAP. Figuring out which way those go is like investigative priority #1 I think.

[mhsmith0]

it was badcde

Da dum tss

[mhsmith0]

The vig did not shoot boem. Vig shot foxbird.

[mhsmith0]

Notably, there were 4 nks which suggests that the wolves did NOT shoot cookie. Which then opens up the question of why they were there...

[mhsmith0]

Idk why foxbird, probably a lurker shot I guess.

[mhsmith0]

I think the sk still needs to target town tonight, but another 4x town death night would mean a requirement to start trying to shoot wolves instead I think.

[mhsmith0]

The mod literally just admitted that there was a rules misunderstanding in thread and people still want to lynch Shaziro over it. I don't even.

[mhsmith0]

Otoh

The Follower learns what action a player performed, but not who that player targeted.

From same page. Sounds like wiggle room to me.

[mhsmith0]

I have little familiarity w specific role mechanics, and am not qualified to normality review.

[mhsmith0]

I will, fwiw, absolutely +1 on wake here. If normal guidelines want to be explicit on "investigative" vs "Neapolitan" then they need the clear and consistent. Otherwise I consider it up to the mod, although I am admittedly no expert on site normal guidelines. It is POSSIBLE a mistake was made, but I see no proof of such a mistake.

[mhsmith0]

Jfc we have made it very very VERY clear that shaziro was not lying about his role. If these people want to lynch him anyway I wash my hands of it utterly and completely.

[mhsmith0]

The joat flip was a public error tho. Private stuff is I think different?

[mhsmith0]

Here the issue was a bunch of people thought hebi was lying about hood claim w CR. Why "scum lie" over "weird roles or a simple error" was people's conclusion to begin with though...

[mhsmith0]

Only kill able by lynch but flying solo, and ascetic is sketchy too if people investigate. Sk NEEDS to kill off investigatives to have any chance IMO.

[mhsmith0]

Also scum teams have a strong "not us" incentive, #s alone can tell if town keeps losing bodies. Sk has a lot of ways to lose.

[mhsmith0]

Btw, I'd say the way this game has developed reinforces the notion that going from 32/5/5 to 29/6/6/1 was 100% correct. Town has a huge amount of power and a lot of ways to win.

[mhsmith0]

Btw, I'd say the way this game has developed reinforces the notion that going from 32/5/5 to 29/6/6/1 was 100% correct. Town has a huge amount of power and a lot of ways to win.

My problem is town mislynched once and the setup is currently. 18/4/5/1
Although I don't know enough about the setup or what powers the SK has to know how balanced it is.

Yeah but that's with vig being 1 for 3, AND no cross-killing, AND no double-killing (i.e. both scum teams hitting same town target). Town doesn't have it wrapped up by any means, but town is (IMO) very clearly winning (and the winning is mainly mechanical as opposed to scum-hunting) and both scum teams are in serious trouble.

[mhsmith0]

the sk is ascetic/bulletproof/ninja iirc

And with a bunch of investigative town powers, "ascetic" starts to look really suspicious after a while. Those town PR's need to die quickly for Sk to have any realistic chance, but the scum teams ALSO have to die quickly, or SK gets out-numbered. Very hard needle to thread IMO.

[mhsmith0]

PS just imagine if this was 21/3/4 right now with the same PR's on the board. It'd be pretty close to surrender time for both scum teams, without them having been super obvious scum in the day game.

[mhsmith0]

edit: actually it would have been 24/3/4, because in that world there's no SK to shoot townies.

[mhsmith0]

That was like the comment of the game.

[mhsmith0]

you got a guilty from CB, hard to get out of that one. just rough luck i think. though probably an RB on drixx and shot on CB gets you there... but you're taking a big risk that by putting yourselves out there that likely mainly benefits the blue team.

[mhsmith0]

I think our SK has made "her" first mistake of the game with who "she" is shooting tonight. I'm curious to see if it stays there or changes.

[mhsmith0]

Titus thinks she's broken the game, but she doesn't know there's two Scumteams of 6.

Our Vig is gonna kill yet another JoaT.

with how many outed wolves there are by now, that's just wow (like, there are LITERALLY claimed guilties on the board). At this point the SK is pretty much the honorary town vig.

[mhsmith0]

Sk is shooting scum tonight btw barring a change in targets.

[mhsmith0]

Investigation immune would ( I think) show as tv to both neo and vanilla cop. Dgb is not an investigation immune sk. In fact no one this game has any kind of godfather mod; that's part of why the #s had to change to make it reasonably balanced.

[mhsmith0]

so uhm

are people really this dense

People want their results handed to them on a silver platter sometimes.

[mhsmith0]

You're mistaken. Investigative immune gets a "town" result from an alignment cop. Not sure how it works otherwise but I'd guess it gets treated like a vt generally.

[mhsmith0]

Btw shooting egg was bad from sk. Keeping rb alive is a nice excuse for the ascetic modifier, plus drixx dead = town panic and easier shots at cb and boem, who have the potential to start clearing townies which is super bad for sk.

[mhsmith0]

Bizarrely the doc remains alive.

[mhsmith0]

Btw feel free to blame me for the change in distributions, that came directly out of my review. Given how easy it's been to generate guilties on scum though I do think I was correct to change it in a pretty radical manner. With better vig shots I think this game would basically be wrapped up for town.

[mhsmith0]

The thread permits infinitely many characters

technically, only 42 plus substitutes

[mhsmith0]

There's no traitors. The only strong scum roles were the rbs and they're dead.

[mhsmith0]

Sk and red mafia shooting drixx tonight. Will lol if blues do too.

[mhsmith0]

Which may be better than what he would have done with a shot...

[mhsmith0]

Mod hasn't updated list for a while

[mhsmith0]

You'll have to wait for wake I have no edit access.

[mhsmith0]

No one shot boem. 2x drixx 1x cookie and vig slept (drixx got unlucky guessing which pr to save but either was a fine choice). Sk shooting egg the prior night was a big blunder, shoulda shot drixx there and make the good town PRs sitting ducks. IMO it's between town and sk, with town decent favorites unless they get lazy. Blue has a chance but red basically dead.

[mhsmith0]

Shooting drixx was a job for either the sk or a goon under suspicion IMO. It was somewhat surprising that drixx lasted this long.

[mhsmith0]

Also thors result is 100% correct. Egg really was an sk shot.

[mhsmith0]

In role madness w a bunch of investigatives a doc is super valuable because it makes shooting the main powers really dangerous. One reason I thought original setup was super town sided was because town roles for together w a lot of synergy, for pretty easy guilties and clears. Iirc the three switched roles were all vt/neighbor roles, easy gunsmith innos.

[mhsmith0]

Wasn't she already hammered?

[mhsmith0]

It's a pretty obviously fake claim IMO.

[mhsmith0]

Borings claim only makes sense if shed been paranoid of boem BEFORE he accused her. Instead she blithely voted creature at day start. It's a clear slip for anyone reading carefully.

[mhsmith0]

Do people have thoughts on balance given flips and game development so far? IMO it's pretty fair w town structurally favored but other factions having realistic chances. You guys agree or think it needed tweaking? It's my first time reviewing this kind if large setup so is be happy to get feedback.

[mhsmith0]

Yeah I think so too but I often think setups are too town sided. I'm very happy we didn't put out 32/5/5 though, I think that would have just been way too easy for town. Sk balances things a bit, but vig swinginess was interesting too.

I will admit I'm rooting for sk, especially since just ascetic and not investigative immune outright.

[mhsmith0]

I'm pretty sure she was. Wake will verify.

[mhsmith0]

I think creature's was the 11 hammer. either was it's a hammer.

[mhsmith0]

oh nevermind missed thors vote

[mhsmith0]

one more red left... but it won't last. the final red is also a scumspect.

[mhsmith0]

Sk should shoot an obvious villager. Mason's if nothing else comes to mind.

[mhsmith0]

Spoiler:

becuase that'd be sk shooting mafia, vig shooting random townies

[mhsmith0]

It was good. I enjoyed watching you wolf in this game,

[mhsmith0]

And now we again start to see how kills get weird when the game condenses. Red holstering and blue/sk targeting same slot. No noise from vig yet.

[mhsmith0]

Possibly? What are you referencing?

[mhsmith0]

Ah I thought u meant that someone hadn't been acting.

[mhsmith0]

If you guess "within an hour after night deadline" congrats, you win.

[mhsmith0]

Thread is open. If you guessed "within

five

ten minutes after night deadline", congrats, you win

[mhsmith0]

LOL. It's cheating if you do it and not Wake. I was just going for funny anyway.

Drixx has been revived, turned into a

Neutral Survivor

, and mod-killed for questioning smith

[mhsmith0]

i evolved into an

admin

and banned mhsmith

mhsmith0 has purchased MafiaScum for $1 and IP-banned Parama

[mhsmith0]

Yep. Shot serrapaladin. Red mafia holstered, blue/sk both shot skelda.

[mhsmith0]

also the blues followed the backup doc, so I expect that will be their kill on N7.

[mhsmith0]

nope. backup doc protected varsoon for some reason. haven't really read thread carefully, so not sure why. not spoilering v's alignment so no comment on whether it was a decent protect or not.

[mhsmith0]

actually, boem is near conf-town, and with a doc dead very easily could absorb bullets. not protecting him is very questionable.

[mhsmith0]

Red mafia is planning to hunker down and hope that things start pushing a different direction, especially since blue mafia don't actually want the last red dead since it makes it clear that it's not 5-man wolf teams. I can't criticize that decision too much, though offing some town presences might have been useful too.

[mhsmith0]

Yeah but 17p left and 5 wolves with a bunch of voting and interactions history that people COULD choose to dig into if they wanted, plus a bunch of town PRs. Town still favorites IMO.

[mhsmith0]

was that in signup thread? I don't think i see that in the game rules...

[mhsmith0]

lol
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8243355
nevermind

[mhsmith0]

meh. at some point town is either paying attention or not.

[mhsmith0]

Yes that's fine you can watch but not post. Mods who pull thread watching access are lame.

[mhsmith0]

I didn't know you did that. I'd suggest not doing that anymore.

[mhsmith0]

Eh, sure. I'll allow it.

[mhsmith0]

Well I mean you can do that too, just not much to talk about

[mhsmith0]

Trolling like that isn't a mod kill though.

[mhsmith0]

Otoh hebi is about to miss her prod so I could replace there. Wrt Gollum, is trolling against the rules?

[mhsmith0]

Force replacing for lurking and light trolling would affect the game by announcing fillings reads to be wrong. I'd rather avoid that without good reason. I can sub basic for hebi tomorow morning though.

[mhsmith0]

Or reaction testing.

[mhsmith0]

I mean, Gollum should have been a vig shot a while ago. Then again the vig missed vigging both outed wolf role blockers from n2 until their deaths which was simply
Vig is pretty much scum mvp at this point.

[mhsmith0]

The sk has arguably made better vig shots than the vig.

[mhsmith0]

Me too. Such an incredibly hard road to hoe. A win would be incredible.

[mhsmith0]

[mhsmith0]

Boem nabbed the two scum roleblockers on night one w his actions. I'd say boem or cookie for towns mvp so far.

[mhsmith0]

If it's random then yes. If it's a town player that has been aggressive and interesting, then less random. Though obv boem was more anticipating a shot instead of a block there,

[mhsmith0]

That lynch was disgusting

[mhsmith0]

I am!

[mhsmith0]

Vig is actually shooting Mafia tonight

[mhsmith0]

Factions by success so far

Sk
Town / blue
Red

[mhsmith0]

Btw blue Mafia saw a doctor action last night. Not sure why they aren't killing that player yet.

[mhsmith0]

Yeah was a really rough break . Ppl still should have let you actually catch up but lol town

[mhsmith0]

Sk killed Klingon. Blue wasted shot on boem despite knowing he'd probably get protected lol.

[mhsmith0]

And yeah last red is 100% hiding out at night.

[mhsmith0]

Math is just BEGGING for a night shot from scum lol

Also town down to nearly zero investigative power. Too late for a useful mass claim I think.

[mhsmith0]

PGO would have been good in this game, town powers were almost all +EV, part of why I needed to swing three guys around to make more balanced. Still rooting for sk.

[mhsmith0]

Yes tonight will be interesting regardless.

[mhsmith0]

expected value. I.e. It's a role that's actively helpful. PGO is an anti town role generally, so -EV. Ditto stuff like compulsive bus driver, or a vig who takes bad shots (usually vig is +EV htough swingy)