Mini Normal 1825 - Game Over

[Dierfire]

I don't understand the question.

[Dierfire]

Ah, it's a new page.

You are precisely correct about my intentions; I am voting for you less because I find you suspicious than because I am reading rb as Town. I'm not sure why it would be a problem if you demonstrate yourself to be Town and I remove my vote.

Well wtf is that

I don't understand the question.

[gameplay506]

I've never been good with the town/scum motivation hunting but I am pretty sure there is something lacking here
Like what does your town read on rb have to do with you voting me?
I can't make the connection

[Naomi-Tan]

Personally I find that post kinda weird but not scummy like they talk about a few people I just wish they had added more too it, seems half done, if that makes sense.

Naomi, this is how I scumhunt. There's no rule that says I have to explicitly reveal everything I think about a subject before I ask questions. If I do that, then it's playing into scum hands. They already know what I am thinking and then can say what they think I might want to hear.

Well, I don't like this. I feel being open is important and sharing information and digging for more information will always be useful even If I can't do anything with the information personally. Sure scum can play around this but I think that unless they are carful it'll be kinda obvious such as when I woke up Martha went and commented how I was townie which seemed off to be at the time (like they was saying it to improve my view of them. I feel that if your open your more effective, then again If I wasn't open I'd probably be killed for my strange play-style.

You don't like it because it's scummy or because it's a different playstyle from yours?

I'm open with what I feel like benefits town at the time. By the end of the day everybody will have a sense of what my reads are, and all the information in my mind will be out on the table.

I feel like I've been pretty open about my reads so far.

Less because its scummy and more that its unproductive, like not putting your views out doesn't aid talk conversation but I do understand that play style. I just like conversation as I feel it helps town talk more. though your play is pretty solid right now IMO

[Dierfire]

@gameplay506

I've never been good with the town/scum motivation hunting but I am pretty sure there is something lacking here
Like what does your town read on rb have to do with you voting me?
I can't make the connection

If rb is Town, his vote is marginally more likely to be on a Mafia player than if he were Mafia. Also, if rb is Town then all other players are marginally more likely to be Mafia (from 3/12 to 3/11).

[golden009]

@gameplay506

I've never been good with the town/scum motivation hunting but I am pretty sure there is something lacking here
Like what does your town read on rb have to do with you voting me?
I can't make the connection

If rb is Town, his vote is marginally more likely to be on a Mafia player than if he were Mafia. Also, if rb is Town then all other players are marginally more likely to be Mafia (from 3/12 to 3/11).

So, wait; You don't read gameplay as scum, but you read rb as town, and therefore, gameplay is scummy enough to get you to vote for him?

That's flimsy as hell.

[gameplay506]

ummmm
why would it be more likely since he can be wrong?

[gameplay506]

more likely he is voting mafia as town*

[pitoli]

The sudden switch from the wagon on RyanK to to gameplay506 is confident and aggressive; it's an attempt to break out of RVS and move the game forward. This is a good move that helps Town, and one that Mafia players have relatively low incentive to make at this point in the game. On this basis, I read rb as Town.

Can't confidence and aggression come from scum too? I think that mafia can easily take early positions to earn themselves easy towncred. The end of RVS is something that HAS to happen at some point, and it's not even that hard to make happen, so scum isn't sacrificing a whole lot by hurrying it along. So I understand your flow of logic but don't necessarily agree

[Dierfire]

@golden009

@gameplay506

I've never been good with the town/scum motivation hunting but I am pretty sure there is something lacking here
Like what does your town read on rb have to do with you voting me?
I can't make the connection

If rb is Town, his vote is marginally more likely to be on a Mafia player than if he were Mafia. Also, if rb is Town then all other players are marginally more likely to be Mafia (from 3/12 to 3/11).

So, wait; You don't read gameplay as scum, but you read rb as town, and therefore, gameplay is scummy enough to get you to vote for him?

That's flimsy as hell.

Did I give the impression that I considered this a wonderfully solid reason for a vote?

Moving from RVS to the real game requires an progressive escalation from "no reasons" to "weak reasons" to "good reasons" for votes.

Do you see a better vote for me at present?

[Dierfire]

@gameplay506

more likely he is voting mafia as town*

It's not that he is more likely as Town to vote Mafia than to vote Town; it's that he's more likely to vote Mafia as Town than as Mafia.

[gameplay506]

Um no

[Dierfire]

@pitoli

The sudden switch from the wagon on RyanK to to gameplay506 is confident and aggressive; it's an attempt to break out of RVS and move the game forward. This is a good move that helps Town, and one that Mafia players have relatively low incentive to make at this point in the game. On this basis, I read rb as Town.

Can't confidence and aggression come from scum too? I think that mafia can easily take early positions to earn themselves easy towncred. The end of RVS is something that HAS to happen at some point, and it's not even that hard to make happen, so scum isn't sacrificing a whole lot by hurrying it along. So I understand your flow of logic but don't necessarily agree

Yes, Mafia players could also display confidence and aggression, but I don't mind handing out credit for such things early in the game.

[Accountant]

VC 1.04

RyanK (1)

: gameplay506

gameplay506 (5)

: rb, Cass, RyanK, Martha Zolanski, Dierfire

Naomi-Tan (1)

: golden009

Martha Zolanski

: pitoli

Not Voting:

Glitch, Comparing Realities, Saru, Naomi-Tan, Chuck

With 13 alive, the majority is 7.

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-09-07 16:06:30)

[Saru]

Wow this game is moving fast lmfao.

My reads thus far:
Town:
no one.
___________
Maybe Town:
Naomi - Her initial post talking about how she usually does a lot of LAMIST and that she is nervous about being lynched and all that seemed slightly scummy because it was full of WIFOM that seemed like it was meant to confuse more than explain. However, seeing as someone pointed out that she had done the same thing in a past town game of hers, that is a solid NAI post. She feels town because she stays consistent with the style of play that she says she uses(being open) and by saying that she plays open, she would make it hard on herself as scum to play any other way because she'd have to commit to being open all the time, which is not easy for scum to do. Basically, pointing out her play style is bad for her as scum, because if she veers off from it, she's immediately suspect.

rb - I do like that he chose to get out of RVS the way he did. Initiative is usually townie. His reasoning for scum reading Gameplay is somewhat of a reach. I have to agree with Gameplay that it comes off as "full of himself" and just egotistic. Closest to being thrown into the null pile.
___________
Null:
Most people for now. Gameplay's wagon does seem suspect, so that might indicate town, but his recent responses to rb's accusations seems a bit too defensive. Feel like he was hitting the "PANIC!" button for a sec there. Have to see more from him that's not related to his wagon or rb before I can make a decision.
___________
Maybe Scum:
Dierfire - I've played 2 other games with him, one where he was town(Mini 1800) and one where he was scum(Mini 1817) and his opening comments seemed more town than scum. However, his vote on Gameplay seemed very unlike him. His vote put Gameplay at L-2, which I don't really think town!Dierfire would do. town!Dierfire tends to be more cautious than that. Plus, this:

It's not that he is more likely as Town to vote Mafia than to vote Town; it's that he's more likely to vote Mafia as Town than as Mafia.

Is just garbage reasoning...and frankly makes no sense to me lmfao. Usually town!Dierfire has solid reasoning, but this doesn't look good at all. It looks like he's just reaching for reasons to justify his vote. Most likely scum on a speed wagon.
__________
Scum:
No one.

VOTE: Dierfire

[pitoli]

Or we could do this

VOTE: golden009

His first post he votes for Naomi, hasn't moved it since and hasn't responded to my post suggesting her intro isn't really a strong indicator of alignment. Pipes up every now and then but I don't sense that he's really trying to develop reads.

[rb]

I think it's just a funny argument. I think it's not serious. And that slug thing.
UNVOTE: Ryan
VOTE: Cass

Please explain why that is scummy and serious?

Found scum #2.

[gameplay506]

And ryan?
Not a big fan of golden but ryan is worse.
Anyway saru it wasnt the panic button I was pushing but the annoyed from the amount of bs thrown at me button.

[golden009]

Maybe Scum:
Dierfire - I've played 2 other games with him, one where he was town(Mini 1800) and one where he was scum(Mini 1817) and his opening comments seemed more town than scum. However, his vote on Gameplay seemed very unlike him. His vote put Gameplay at L-2, which I don't really think town!Dierfire would do. town!Dierfire tends to be more cautious than that. Plus, this:

It's not that he is more likely as Town to vote Mafia than to vote Town; it's that he's more likely to vote Mafia as Town than as Mafia.

Is just garbage reasoning...and frankly makes no sense to me lmfao. Usually town!Dierfire has solid reasoning, but this doesn't look good at all. It looks like he's just reaching for reasons to justify his vote. Most likely scum on a speed wagon.
__________
Scum:
No one.

VOTE: Dierfire

You know what? I can get on board with this. UNVOTE: Naomi-Tan even though I don't like the introduction, it's less of a "this is scummy" dislike and more of a "I wouldn't do this if I were you" dislike. VOTE: Dierfire because of that flimsy-as-hell logic.

[pitoli]

I think it's just a funny argument. I think it's not serious. And that slug thing.
UNVOTE: Ryan
VOTE: Cass

Please explain why that is scummy and serious?

Found scum #2.

Convince me. I don't like Martha for doing jack shit and omgusing me, but that could just as likely be town being dumb.

[pitoli]

You know what? I can get on board with this. UNVOTE: Naomi-Tan even though I don't like the introduction, it's less of a "this is scummy" dislike and more of a "I wouldn't do this if I were you" dislike. VOTE: Dierfire because of that flimsy-as-hell logic.

You can get on board with this after you see the wagon gain some momentum?

[gameplay506]

And ryan?

Not a big fan of golden but ryan is worse.
Anyway saru it wasnt the panic button I was pushing but the annoyed from the amount of bs thrown at me button.

@pitoli

[rb]

Have to drive someone to their work because they're running late. So I'll respond properly in a couple of hours or so. I'm surprised how strong this wagon got.

Quick thoughts that I can expand on when I get back:

- one of RyanK or gameplay is scum
- dierfire is potential scum. Sheeping me because I'm town? Town are often wrong and of everyone on my wagon, this looks the scummiest.
- if gameplay is scum, martha is a likely partner

Also it's like Day 1 of Day 1, let's think a bit more before we kill - but I admit I'm totally fine with a gameplay lynch end of day.

UNVOTE: gameplay

Back in two hours. Be careful putting people are L-2 in a game with 3 scum and daytalk, k?

[pitoli]

And ryan?

Not a big fan of golden but ryan is worse.
Anyway saru it wasnt the panic button I was pushing but the annoyed from the amount of bs thrown at me button.

@pitoli

I originally sorted him town. I liked his early back-and-forth with rb and the way he came onto your wagon seemed organic (still seems organic, relative to the rest of the votes). I'll try to resort him when he posts more. In the meantime, vote golden with me.

[golden009]

You know what? I can get on board with this. UNVOTE: Naomi-Tan even though I don't like the introduction, it's less of a "this is scummy" dislike and more of a "I wouldn't do this if I were you" dislike. VOTE: Dierfire because of that flimsy-as-hell logic.

You can get on board with this after you see the wagon gain some momentum?

I was already suspicious; however, having someone else that shares my opinion definitely solidifies it slightly more (peer pressure and all that). What's your opinion on Dierfire rn?