Micro 639: Noughts and Crosses Blitz [Game Over]

[Javajoe24]

I get the strategy of placing middle first in tic tac toe, but I can't wrap my head around lynching a townie day 1. It may turn out to be the best strategy in the end if we are solely going for the tic tac toe win, but I find lynching a confirmed town day 1 unthinkable in normal games.

VOTE: Guilty Lion

For lynching me last game! :p

[Javajoe24]

Ok, seems RVS is over already and game is mainly strategy based so

UNVOTE:

[Javajoe24]

This stuff is kinda going over my head. I can definitely see lanes argument about if we lynch in the middle we can force scums NK's to what we want it to be, and I think that will probably be our best strategy. I cant believe I am actually agreeing with killing an IC.....

[Javajoe24]

I don't even know what strategy is best, I can see the argument from both sides. I have never been good at tic tac toe so I will trust the majorities judgement and vote from that

[Javajoe24]

Well if we are doing the corner strategy I will vote for atm considering the other 3 corners have been actively contributing and seem to be trying to actively find the best strategy while atm has still yet to post in a blitz game.

[Javajoe24]

No, but in a blitz game we need players to be active and cutting dead weight on day 1 is a good strategy I think, especially since he is one of the 4 people we are choosing from.

[Javajoe24]

Might as well place a vote

VOTE: atm

[Javajoe24]

No, why?

[Javajoe24]

I don't understand how atm lynch ensures both of your deaths. Why is that?

[Javajoe24]

I think I liked the plan where we lynch the ic though. I want to lynch luna fox and java joe, and force scum to kill alpacaalpaca and atm

Lane I don't understand - you're voting me because you don't want to die instead of actual scumhunting?

He's referring to this where Dunn said we should lynch the IC first. And from your posts there after you seem to agree with him. Am I mistaken?

[Javajoe24]

Lol, I was thinking the same thing! Damn you lane!!

[Javajoe24]

But you didn't answer my question. Am I mistaken that you seem to agree with Dunns plan to lynch in the middle first?

[Javajoe24]

No that atm has been replaced, and his strategy on the situation seems to come from a town perspective, I would more like to vote here. I do not agree with lynching the IC. Honestly I think this strategy is more likely to come from scum than town.

P-edit - ninja'ed! Removed my vote on Dunn, but...

Intent to hammer

UNVOTE:

[Javajoe24]

There have been a lot of arguments made for lynching in the corners since my post 34, and why it is better than lynching in the center. I have taken all the strategies suggested to decide for myself which I believe to be the best, and came to the conclusion of corners. If you were to read my ISO you would see that I was very hesitant to agree with lynching in the middle and post 34 is the only time I have agreed with it. But with my perspective now, with new information, I can see that scum would most likely push for a lynch on the IC and not give the town the first corner pick. In any tic tac toe games I have ever played I personally pick the corner first because you have more options from there.

[Javajoe24]

There have been a lot of arguments made for lynching in the corners since my post 34, and why it is better than lynching in the center. I have taken all the strategies suggested to decide for myself which I believe to be the best, and came to the conclusion of corners. If you were to read my ISO you would see that I was very hesitant to agree with lynching in the middle and post 34 is the only time I have agreed with it. But with my perspective now, with new information, I can see that scum would most likely push for a lynch on the IC and not give the town the first corner pick. In any tic tac toe games I have ever played I personally pick the corner first because you have more options from there.

Okay, a couple of things:

a) You personally pick the corner first when you play Tic Tac Toe, so why didn't you disagree with Lane and talk about the values of picking the corner?
b) You're not scumreading Lane for suggesting that we lynch the middle. So, why Dunnstral?

a) Because collective thought is generally better than individual thought. I am no tic tac toe master, and I did earlier suggest that we should lynch in the corner I believe.
b) That was early in the game when not much had been discussed, and since then lane has came to the conclusion as well that lynching in the corner is best, which scum wouldn't do in my opinion, like Dunn isn't doing....

[Javajoe24]

And if scum don't nightkill mcmenno?

That's an auto-loss of the Tic Tac Toe game. We'd only need to hit one scum in four lynches to win.

Oh i think i see it
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yeah...

What is this?

[Javajoe24]

@Umlaut, can you explain why you were voting Luna and my slot? The only reason you gave was that my slot was far away from you that shows a very survivalistic mindset which is the same thing you are accusing Java of.

Yeah, that was pretty much it. I don't especially mind not being alive but I do know I'm town whereas I only think Lion and Lane are town.

I do think there's a difference between copping to a survivalistic vote made for lack of a better reason, and hiding it behind other reasons like Java did, which is why I'm so wary of his behavior.

VOTE: Luna Fox

This vote is as good as Dunn on general Tic-Tac-Toe merits while also being adjacent to Java. Admittedly forcing a Java kill would mean lynching Lake which is not so great, but since I'm townreading Lake and Wing about equally this isn't actually a reason to prefer Dunn.

How am I hiding behind my vote? I technically never even voted, but intended to before he got to L-1. And if I did vote, how would it have been "survivalistic"? I am in no danger of being killed.... so your accusation makes no sense to me.

[Javajoe24]

You want to vote Luna to get at me? Fine. I don't mind being killed, as long as we win.

[Javajoe24]

Im here guys, been busy today. working on catching up

[Javajoe24]

MOD: I am not actually voting anyone right now.

[Javajoe24]

So from my understanding of things, if we lynch dunn today then tomorrow we will lynch lane by strategy, and if we lynch luna then we lynch wing tomorrow by strategy? If this is the case, that is a harsh choice to make because I have a town read on both of them, but am perfectly happy with a luna or dunn lynch, but preferably a dunn lynch.

[Javajoe24]

Umlaut - I find the fact that he was voting ATM/Wing solely based on distance from him, and to increase his chance of survival, then a few posts later says that I am scummy for playing a "survivalistic" vote on Dunn. Not really any other thoughts on him other than he started tunneling on me for reasons I don't quite understand.

AlpacaAlpaca - Seems to be active lurking as people have said, but the fact that he just got prodded seems to indicate maybe he is just having some RL issues? I have a town read on him for his post 154 (cant remember how to make that a link). To me it seems like he is trying to warn us that we need to focus on who we lynch and not get too caught up in the tic tac toe strategies, which to me sounds like it would come from a townie.

Dunn - I really dislike how adamant he is/was about lynching the IC today. I feel in my gut that this strategy comes from a scum mindset. He claimed in post 115 that he is only willing to vote for luna, wing, or Mcmenn. This is a completely survivalistic point of view. This entire time that pressure has been placed on him, he has been in a completely survivalist mentality. Town would not care as much as dunn to die. This is why he is my top scum pick.

GuiltyLion - Got a town read almost immediately here for being one of the first to fight against lynching the IC. Genuinely seems to be posting and thinking from a town perspective. Definite town read.

Lane - Lane started out advocating for an IC kill, but slowly came around to a corner kill strategy. While this could still be scum being flip floppy, I really don't feel like this is the case. More of a Gut town read on lane really.

Luna - Luna sheeped lane on her vote for dunn, without making any arguements herself against him. Her post about thinking she shouldn't have signed up for the game because she isn't putting in enough time or effort, despite having the 2nd highest amount of posts pings me.

Wingback - Along with Lane and Guilty, Wing seems to be one of the main contributors to furthering the strategy, and his strategies seem to be very pro town. I know amount of effort put in is NAI, but for me it seems to be more helpful to the town than anything. One of my top 3 townreads.

So you all know, I made this list after re reading everyone's ISO. I do not just hold all of that information in my brain, lol. I got a little lazy towards the end explaining why cause I am getting tired, but to recap, here is my readlist:

{Mcmenno} Town
{Guilty, Wingback, Lane} Town-Lean
{Alpaca} Null
{Luna} Scum-Lean
{Dunn, Umlaut} Scum

[Javajoe24]

Wait, why would Luna switch to herself when it doesn't progress the lynch count? Doesn't make sense to me...

[Javajoe24]

I am ok with this.

VOTE: Dunn

[Javajoe24]

Really? With less than 5 hours remaining and a intent already given? Whatever man.

[Javajoe24]

That was unexpected. I thought they had to lynch center in order to not auto lose. From my POV the best option is to lynch Elmo, force them to kill umlaut, then trap them by lynching lane. Unless alpaca and GL are scum, which I highly doubt, then we will win with this strategy.

[Javajoe24]

And can I just say that I am thoroughly shocked Dunn flipped town after how he played yesterday. I really thought we nailed scum day 1...

[Javajoe24]

I agree that the wingback kill suggests a scum alpaca. Is there any other possible explanation for it? As for the plan about lynching me or alpaca tomorrow I have no issue with, but it does suck if you lynch me just cause I couldn't participate anymore, but as long as we Winn that's all that matters. So as for my thoughts on who to lynch between us, I am obviously for alpaca because I know I am town, but I can see the argument for me as well. The only problem I see with the alpaca plan is that if we lynch alpaca won't we be giving the momentum of the ttt game to scum, and they can put us in some sort of trap. Haven't really worked out the possible scenarios but not working towards three in a row seems counter productive to me. But I do agree that Elmo is the best lynch candidate today as it forces a NK on umlaut who I personally am scum reading.

As a side note, I apologize for my recent lack of input. I have had my kids the past two days and have been focusing on them instead of on here.

[Javajoe24]

Where are you pulling this most likely to be scum with guilty from?

[Javajoe24]

Here's a thought. Would the mod put the scum team in positions that would make them less likely to be lynched? If so umlaut makes sense with alpaca because they are both sides, and not across from each other so no chance of forcing them to kill the other. Now if what umlaut flips town tonight that would mean that GL would have to be scum based on that logic, which I really can't see. It could be lane, but he would be a corner and a prime lynch candidate. But then again if umlaut does flip town then at least one of GL or Lane has to be scum from my POV. If this is so, then wow, well done guys, you guys deserve the win with a game well played like this.

[Javajoe24]

Ok, since everyone seems to be ready

VOTE: elmo

[Javajoe24]

I see what you are trying to accomplish Mcmenna, and I don't blame you for it. But look at it from my perspective for a second, as if you knew I was town. If I were to vote you now, the only confirmed town we have, scum could jump on the wagon, quick lynch you and end the game. If you are quick lynched today, then that leaves only 4 players, two of whom are scum. I understand you believe me to be scum and that is why you proposed this, but knowing I am town I cannot do this and risk the game. I only know that 2 scum lie between GL, Cass, and Lane. To me the only likely possibility would be GL and Cass, I am really thinking that lane is town.

[Javajoe24]

Did you actually read what I said? This is lylo! Unvote before they quick hammer!

[Javajoe24]

What is normal? I get you think I am scum and I am fine with that, but unvote so we can get some discussions in today before someone quick hammers!

[Javajoe24]

Thank you for being reasonable. So what are your thoughts on what I said about GL and cass being the scum team?

[Javajoe24]

Guilty I've got a town read on you. Did you fool me before? Oh I just remembered I almost fooled you in that multiball. Anyways, I think if we lynch the opposite corner from me and those two sides it should be a win...

Haha Lane I think I've been town every time we have played together

also I am thinking you are town here
UNVOTE:

This seems like buddying to me. And you continue to buddy with lane throughout the game.

Can't force a scumkill on them, but we can guarantee that we'll lynch them as follows:

alpaca

lynching Luna Fox would force a D3 lynch on Alpaca

umlaut

lynching atm would force a D3 lynch on Umlaut

or Dunnstral?

eh you got me there, but lynching Dunn on D2 would be safe (although it would give scum semi-free reign for D2 night kill)

We're not going to be able to force certain players to be scumkilled if we play in the center either. After the scum NK and our D2 lynch, you'll have the same problem that you're pointing out here. You're just delaying this problem in the setup by one day, after you lynch confirmed town.

This is the first time you mention alpaca being scum, before I think he had truly done anything scummy. I believe you are bussing your partner for town cred, painting a picture to town of me and alpaca as scum because you lay a plan in the future to let you, lane(who you are buddying), and me make it to the final three. Thus making me the obvious choice to lynch winning you the game.

My point is, let's say we go your plan, scum kill atm, we lynch java, alpaca turns up dead, now we're forced to lynch Dunnstral, scum is forced to kill lane, and everyone else is immune from NKs

You had just said that alpaca is scummy, but in this post you said he will turn up dead, insinuating that he is town.

My strategy is keep upper right corner alive. If scum don't kill IC then we'll win from tic tac toe. If they do everyone in bottom left dies.

This is the best approach, I think. If we can all agree on a corner block with three townies, we can lynch the opposite corner and force the other six players to be killed. Worst case scenario is both scum are in the block of 3 and we lose, meh scenario is a 2-1 LYLO, best case scenario is autowin.

What do people think of {lane, GL, javajoe} as a block? Unfortunately I'm not all that inclined to believe in town!java

I have already commented on how you laid out this plan for your benefit, and in the same post you start discrediting me in the last sentence. You have played with me before and know I am easy lynch bait.

Well we need to get a lynch going, and since you guys want to lynch me at some point down the line might as well do it now.
VOTE: Luna Fox

So you have Dunn in your leftovers pile but you'd rather lynch yourself than him??

intent to hammer

I'll wait for Umlaut. Unfortunately this means Alpaca survives a long time, which may be why LF is doing this

Further soft bussing on alpaca. Earlier you had said he would turn up dead and you don't seem to have any independent argument for him being scum that I saw. Maybe you can point it out if I missed it?

lane do you think scum just threw the game? Or do you think it's java-alpaca team?

Here is where you start pushing for me and alpaca being on the same team, which benefits you by bussing your partner for town cred and throwing shade at me for an easy mislynch.

I still think it's Elmo-Alpaca and if Elmo flips scum then we auto-win

But just a few posts later you "still" think it's an Elmo alpaca team? When did you ever say it was an Elmo alpaca team? And you just said a few posts ago it was me and alpaca.

then we lynch javajoe as he is most likely scum remaining. If you're opposed to that you better spend the day campaigning on who would be a better D3 lynch.

And the culmination of the shade thrown at me.....

Plus the fact that alpaca has been the only constant scum read of yours, but instead of pushing for his lynch now, you are deferring to Mcmenna who has already voted me twice and you know finds me the scummiest? You must be shaking in your chair with giddiness.

[Javajoe24]

Lol, ok. Guess I only get to do this once, so might as well enjoy it.

VOTE: Cass

So, hi and bye.

wait... what???

[Javajoe24]

Well then....

Intent to Hammer

[Javajoe24]

Oh, I see now. I missed your vote Mcmenna.

[Javajoe24]

Whoa, this thread blew up while I was gone. I thought the day was over cause I saw the mod post after the lynch, but I guess not. Let me go catch up and post my thoughts.

[Javajoe24]

So... Mcmenno votes Java twice. You come in and say let's let mcmenno decide. And I vote my partner just to make the game last another day? Is what you're considering.

I'm universally townread. I don't need more town cred. And I don't need to delay the game to get it when it was pretty obvious to me mcmenno was leaning towards voting Joe.

This argument right here pretty much shows your town beyond a shadow of a doubt to me. There were some places that your posts rubbed me the wrong way, like post 360, but overall there is no question of your towniness. Which by POE leaves GL as scum. As to your rebuttals to my case on you, I have replies but do not have the time or energy to go over every one, that is something we can go over tomorrow. Suffice it to say you were right on some points and I was wrong on some, but there are still points I think hold true. Even if lane were not basically conf. town to me, you would be the scummiest one for your arguments about not wanting to lynch the scum player. He was the player that everyone in the game had a big scum read on, and it was pretty obvious that alpaca/cass was scum, so why wouldn't we lynch a virtually confirmed scum in lylo? I could see if you were only saying we shouldn't have quick hammered, because I can agree with that, but you are arguing that we should have lynched between me and lane. You are using math statistics to try and back up your argument instead of using logic and scum hunting ability. This is probably the scummiest thing you have done so far in my opinion.

[Javajoe24]

On a side note, can someone tell me how to add a link to a post number that can take you to that post?

[Javajoe24]

Thank you for that.

And from where you are standing of course your going to say I am scum. I have no comment to that.

[Javajoe24]

Well that was expected. It is too late at night and I am going to bed now. Just saw this was up so wanted to post.

[Javajoe24]

Just letting you guys know I won't be posting much if anything until probably Wednesday. Have my kids with me today and tomorrow

I will still be catching glances on my phone if you need me but won't have time for lengthy posts.

[Javajoe24]

Not much time to post, but nothing has changed for me overnight. Still confident that GL is scum. I still stick to most of my argument against GL yesterday, except for a few points in which I was mistaken. But going through both GL and Lanes ISOs yesterday, GL seemed so much more scummy than lane did, and with the argument that scum!lane wouldn't have bussed cass yesterday with Mcmenna voting me twice in the beginning of the day, it's pretty obvious lane is town. I would vote for GL right now, but I figure I should at least let him give a defense before I cast my vote.

[Javajoe24]

Are you saying everyone reacts the same in a given situation? If you look through the rest of the conversation between me and Mcmenna during that period you will see I was obviously distressed that he was voting me in lylo. I tend to not get angry on here no matter my alignment because I always keep in mind it's just a game. I have to disagree with you on what your primary argument with lane yesterday was about. While you may have been trying to argue against the quick lunch mainly, you came across to be more interested in wanting to have lynched between me and lane. This is because you spent more time discussing the latter points than the former. I will have to go back and re read which points I was talking about in your rebuttal, so that post coming up

[Javajoe24]

Further soft bussing on alpaca. Earlier you had said he would turn up dead and you don't seem to have any independent argument for him being scum that I saw. Maybe you can point it out if I missed it?

Can you explain your scumread on Alapaca?

Alpaca is active lurking. He hasn't once offered a legitimate effort to sort people, instead what he has posted has been RVS joking and then small questions/comments on theory. He also called McMenno town in his 154 in a way that pings me as fake:

I am pretty sure Luna and Wing are town so are guilty and mcmenno
@Dunn - Are you still for lynching mcmenno?

the way this is written it feels like he's just naming names and threw on McMenno afterwards because the slot is confirmed town. Like, am I on the same tier of towniness to Alpaca as the IC, why am I separated from Luna/Wing? I can't figure out exactly how to put it into words, but it doesn't look like something town would write.

This is an example of something that I was wrong about. Somehow I skipped over that post.

[Javajoe24]

lane do you think scum just threw the game? Or do you think it's java-alpaca team?

Here is where you start pushing for me and alpaca being on the same team, which benefits you by bussing your partner for town cred and throwing shade at me for an easy mislynch.

I still think it's Elmo-Alpaca and if Elmo flips scum then we auto-win

But just a few posts later you "still" think it's an Elmo alpaca team? When did you ever say it was an Elmo alpaca team? And you just said a few posts ago it was me and alpaca.

Called it here:

I'm calling a Luna+Alpaca scumteam tbh. I'm drunk rn but I'll be back for actual play tomorrow

Same here.

[Javajoe24]

actually I'll just respond to javas points now:

Can't force a scumkill on them, but we can guarantee that we'll lynch them as follows:

alpaca

lynching Luna Fox would force a D3 lynch on Alpaca

umlaut

lynching atm would force a D3 lynch on Umlaut

or Dunnstral?

eh you got me there, but lynching Dunn on D2 would be safe (although it would give scum semi-free reign for D2 night kill)

We're not going to be able to force certain players to be scumkilled if we play in the center either. After the scum NK and our D2 lynch, you'll have the same problem that you're pointing out here. You're just delaying this problem in the setup by one day, after you lynch confirmed town.

This is the first time you mention alpaca being scum, before I think he had truly done anything scummy. I believe you are bussing your partner for town cred, painting a picture to town of me and alpaca as scum because you lay a plan in the future to let you, lane(who you are buddying), and me make it to the final three. Thus making me the obvious choice to lynch winning you the game.

I'm not calling alpaca scum in my post, I'm responding to Lane's question about how we could kill alpaca if we lynch Lane and scum kill center. There's a lot of projection/assumption in the rest of your quote here - now that I've pointed out that I'm not calling alpaca scum in 20, do you still feel like the rest of your point holds up?

While I understand what your saying, and remember lane posing this question which does make this particular post irrelevant, it does not change the fact that I believe you were bussing you partner early on for town cred because you knew you would be in the last three. And also, the fact that you only responded to these parts of my argument, which I admit are the weakest parts, and completely ignored the rest just makes me even sure you are the last scum.

[Javajoe24]

Guilty I've got a town read on you. Did you fool me before? Oh I just remembered I almost fooled you in that multiball. Anyways, I think if we lynch the opposite corner from me and those two sides it should be a win...

Haha Lane I think I've been town every time we have played together

also I am thinking you are town here
UNVOTE:

This seems like buddying to me. And you continue to buddy with lane throughout the game.

Can't force a scumkill on them, but we can guarantee that we'll lynch them as follows:

alpaca

lynching Luna Fox would force a D3 lynch on Alpaca

umlaut

lynching atm would force a D3 lynch on Umlaut

or Dunnstral?

eh you got me there, but lynching Dunn on D2 would be safe (although it would give scum semi-free reign for D2 night kill)

We're not going to be able to force certain players to be scumkilled if we play in the center either. After the scum NK and our D2 lynch, you'll have the same problem that you're pointing out here. You're just delaying this problem in the setup by one day, after you lynch confirmed town.

This is the first time you mention alpaca being scum, before I think he had truly done anything scummy. I believe you are bussing your partner for town cred, painting a picture to town of me and alpaca as scum because you lay a plan in the future to let you, lane(who you are buddying), and me make it to the final three. Thus making me the obvious choice to lynch winning you the game.

My point is, let's say we go your plan, scum kill atm, we lynch java, alpaca turns up dead, now we're forced to lynch Dunnstral, scum is forced to kill lane, and everyone else is immune from NKs

You had just said that alpaca is scummy, but in this post you said he will turn up dead, insinuating that he is town.

My strategy is keep upper right corner alive. If scum don't kill IC then we'll win from tic tac toe. If they do everyone in bottom left dies.

This is the best approach, I think. If we can all agree on a corner block with three townies, we can lynch the opposite corner and force the other six players to be killed. Worst case scenario is both scum are in the block of 3 and we lose, meh scenario is a 2-1 LYLO, best case scenario is autowin.

What do people think of {lane, GL, javajoe} as a block? Unfortunately I'm not all that inclined to believe in town!java

I have already commented on how you laid out this plan for your benefit, and in the same post you start discrediting me in the last sentence. You have played with me before and know I am easy lynch bait.

Well we need to get a lynch going, and since you guys want to lynch me at some point down the line might as well do it now.
VOTE: Luna Fox

So you have Dunn in your leftovers pile but you'd rather lynch yourself than him??

intent to hammer

I'll wait for Umlaut. Unfortunately this means Alpaca survives a long time, which may be why LF is doing this

Further soft bussing on alpaca. Earlier you had said he would turn up dead and you don't seem to have any independent argument for him being scum that I saw. Maybe you can point it out if I missed it?

lane do you think scum just threw the game? Or do you think it's java-alpaca team?

Here is where you start pushing for me and alpaca being on the same team, which benefits you by bussing your partner for town cred and throwing shade at me for an easy mislynch.

I still think it's Elmo-Alpaca and if Elmo flips scum then we auto-win

But just a few posts later you "still" think it's an Elmo alpaca team? When did you ever say it was an Elmo alpaca team? And you just said a few posts ago it was me and alpaca.

then we lynch javajoe as he is most likely scum remaining. If you're opposed to that you better spend the day campaigning on who would be a better D3 lynch.

And the culmination of the shade thrown at me.....

Plus the fact that alpaca has been the only constant scum read of yours, but instead of pushing for his lynch now, you are deferring to Mcmenna who has already voted me twice and you know finds me the scummiest? You must be shaking in your chair with giddiness.

Just putting this here for easy access and billed the parts you blatantly ignored.

[Javajoe24]

Ebwop - bolded, not billed

[Javajoe24]

VOTE: guilty

GG!

[Javajoe24]

I cannot believe I pulled that off!!! I thought we were done for ever since you guys decided to lynch alpaca...

[Javajoe24]

Sorry about the activity levels from me, I tend to be more lurky as scum in general. I have no objections to releasing the PT. Can you release the dead/spectator topic?

[Javajoe24]

Jeez, did I have anyone but lane fooled??

[Javajoe24]

Thanks! I was trying desperately to act like a townie would in lylo to make him think I was town even though he thought I was scum.

[Javajoe24]

I seriously almost screwed the game up last night though. I was originally going to kill lane instead of Mcmenna last night because Mcmenna had said he thought GL was scum, but then you two got into your argument and I knew I stood a chance if I left lane alive. What was I thinking considering leaving an IC alive in lylo???