Mini Normal 1827 - No Flavor Mafia (Game Over)

[Naomi-Tan]

KTS; Your picture is freaking me out .. its just all of the wrong... anyway sorry for the delay was out. home now and time to post the infamous post of the game that'll be a topic for debate for a while here we go!

[Naomi-Tan]

Hello everyone,. I'm Naomi. I have a problem with my mindset in general. As both scum and town I fear getting lynched and sometimes that drives me to inaction. Additionally I doubt myself and never feel that my reads are very good and because of this i'm not the strongest arguer as in the back of my mind I'm always doubting myself. so.. I come off as unsure. My solution to fixing this has been to ask questions and being very open and honest wherever possible. beacuse even if I'm bad at scum hunting at least I can support town by keeping activity high. I like doing regular read lists as well so people can get an idea of what I'm thinking (every 10 pages or so) When I wake up I normally do a larger 'catchup' post followed by shorter reaction posts over the course of the day. Because of this I also tend to do lots of LAMIST moves beacuse Im always worried people will want me gone as I'm not very good. Scum tend to use this to there advantage sometimes.

The reason I'm opening with this is my mind set follows a more scum meta when, for me, its really NAI as I just havn't managed to get past the idea that by lynched and I don't want to die.. and thats a problem but.. as I can't really do anything about it I been taking to attempting to announce this when playing to help town out. I also find it helps if I'm honest about it early on as it's going to come out through my gameplay and its hard to defend this play style.

I expect this post will be a hot topic down the line for both Scum!Naomi and Town!Naomi but Thats just the kinda player I am. Also I normally get a handful of votes for this post from people who declare; "She is setting up for later" which is true. this is setting up for when people point and say I'm being LAMIST and for when people notice my unsure mindset and habbit of backing off because my meta is strange..

[Naomi-Tan]

Yeah if the scum team are any good daytalk is more powerful than a PR so we probably have a few

I would like to point out that the fact scum have day talk is in the setup on page one encase anyone miss's it and thinks this is a scum slip.

[Naomi-Tan]

Holy shit I found another me

Eh normally it devides town into 3 camps based on how people feel about it, so may not be the best plan for you. Those 3 camps being

Town - They appreciate my honesty and openness about it and think me townie for it.
NAI / WIFOM - they see the post for what it is and keep me as null though tend to also bare it in mind for later
Scum - They think I'm bullshitting and making up excuses for scummy behaviour and generally always think I'm kinda scummy.

Least thats my experience. Don't help that i also get defensive under pressure.

[Naomi-Tan]

I have terrible read doubt, I know there are more town than scum, so I want to think as everyone is town and read them in the most townie way and thats not productive so I then pressure things that I think might be scum tells while at the same time thinking they might be town.. think about if someone as town thought everyone is town until such time as I get the feeling there not.. I tend to use Null for people who havn't said much.. but I still treat null as town.. I guess what I should do is go; Confirmed town, Extreme town, Strong Town, Town, Slight Scum, Scum. If that makes sense.. but This isn't good for my health I find as everyones like; why you think people are town and I'm like; Dunno? should I not. And then it just gets messy.

PEDIT; Yeah thats the 3 camps thing I pointed out a bit later. It is very much NAI but pointing out that its NAI is the point of the post so.. sorta works? I havn't tested yet but I think it would be an interesting theory to look at those people who do find it scummy as paranoid townies. Though there is also a scum chance.. also this time it was a good conversation starter, though its talking about an NAI post so not really much hunting ... but its nice to start to move out of a RVS cycle.

[Naomi-Tan]

Yeah if the scum team are any good daytalk is more powerful than a PR so we probably have a few

I would like to point out that the fact scum have day talk is in the setup on page one encase anyone miss's it and thinks this is a scum slip.

We know, you don't need to whiteknight him.

I know you know but someone might of missed it

[Naomi-Tan]

Pretty sure that, considering we were discussing how scum had daytalk, no one's going to think it's a scum slip. ...

well was wasn't at the time. you commented it offhandedly so I thought I'd reinforce it a little :3 But now no one will make the mistake

[Naomi-Tan]

And nope, you didn't have it as an off handed comment it was a small conversation that I missed as I didn't really read page 1 properly as it looked like RVS shenanigans XD

[Naomi-Tan]

Pretty sure that, considering we were discussing how scum had daytalk, no one's going to think it's a scum slip. ...

well was wasn't at the time. you commented it offhandedly so I thought I'd reinforce it a little :3 But now no one will make the mistake

No one cares
Vote Blackstar...

Why?

[Naomi-Tan]

Why?

I have a day guilty on him...

a wuh?

[Naomi-Tan]

Holy shit I found another me

no lol Naomi is a G and p decent.

whats G and P?

[Naomi-Tan]

G= gangsta

So he is calling me scum? well.. thats okay, I sorta guessed someone would react like it. Whats the P mean?

[Naomi-Tan]

Well.. I guess thats cool as long as your interruption is right.. I don't think there's anything I could really do that side.

how is Jordarrian obv scum KTS?

[Naomi-Tan]

Well.. Naomi had bad sleep last night.. so im willing to be super open to questioning right now as I'm half out of it.

[Naomi-Tan]

Well I just wanted people to give the chance to ask me stuff, if you have nothing to ask thats cool

[Naomi-Tan]

whats a +1?

[Naomi-Tan]

irresponsible? thats a weird choice of words. regardless; what didn't you like?

[Naomi-Tan]

putting someone that close to dead when we're like 8(?) hours in is irresponsible because, like, what if someone comes in and says "hey haven't read the thread yet but here's my vote" and hammers him out of nowhere? like, they would immediately become suspicious, but it'd be the sort of thing that would still be possible to play off as a mistake.

he freaked out a lot at a relatively quick wagon, more than is reasonable for a wagon out of nowhere day 1. I dislike that reaction.

Seems reasonable, but I think the move would be WAY too high risk.

[Naomi-Tan]

Hmm jordarrian and naomi are null-scum leaning but it's too early to pin them down, naomi more for the subtle white knighting and buddying than for 48. Would say the same of vedith but I know from experience he's a scummy scumbag even as town but IGMEOY

Erm.. It wasn't white knighting... no one was attacking you or being suspicious of you at the time and I missed the comments on page 1 about the day talk.. it was meant to be just a small little expansion so no one got confused.. If I had noticed page one was more than just RVS I wouldn't of spoken about it.. Like.. you can't really white knight something thats not even a thing yet..

this just in kts and naomi are softclaimed masons

because i don't know how anyone could like the toxicity that is naomi

Why am I toxic..? I thought I was at least helping out.. but there isn't much to talk about right now..

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't like your gimmick and the way you post.

I don't think its really a gimmick.. but okay we can put this aside for now. As the game picks up hopefully you'll find me less gimmicky?

[Naomi-Tan]

BS'd list of reads so far

{KTS}
{Naomi}
{Jord, BlackStar}
{massive, pistachi0n, Skelda}
{Io}
{Vedith, light, Creature}
{xyzzy}

So Town to scum right ?

[Naomi-Tan]

is there a known ratio of mafia to town fwiw

I checked the rules post, my role pm, the player que and his post for mod sign up. It currently appears as if we do not have this information. However Its likely to be 3 scum as there is 13 players.

[Naomi-Tan]

ye every mini i've played has had 3 scum and 0 sks

just wondering if it's consistent

with that said, if there's 3 wolves, i need to condense my reads because i have 5 people below the null tier.

Well you can't really do that. Least not IMO as town we are always going to be unsure of who is town and not condensing would mean removing people that may be scum. I think you should open yourself to allowing more or less than 3 based on who is suspicious to you :3 Like right now I'm only just getting 1 read because everything is so light right now and that read isn't really strong enough to verbalise

[Naomi-Tan]

yo stop TvTing please.

I'll solve the game tomorrow.

Erm.. I didn't think we was?

[Naomi-Tan]

Right, so, uh, we need to lay down some ground rules.

I'm always right
If I'm wrong, then support your statement with stone cold facts and not opinions.
Even then, I'm probably right.
Because I'm always in my final form.
Always.

Right, no more TvTing you two.

Errr.. sure thing it happened around here;

BS'd list of reads so far

{KTS}
{Naomi}
{Jord, BlackStar}
{massive, pistachi0n, Skelda}
{Io}
{Vedith, light, Creature}
{xyzzy}

your his best town read followed by me and the list continues down.

[Naomi-Tan]

I said I was always right.

true you also said; "If I'm wrong, then support your statement with stone cold facts and not opinions." which I did~

[Naomi-Tan]

I just noticed... this is the most frilviously 3 way TTT conversation that has probably ever existed and all 3 of us should probably not continue it on.. like all 3 of us are town reading each other and this conversation was so pointless that it might as well been a bubble shaped sphere.

[Naomi-Tan]

lol if I were scum I wouldn't simply join the wagon like this.

lol if I were scum I wouldn't simply join the wagon like this.

scumclaim

NAI/Wifom; Hey you remember that post I made, my second post. yeah for the same reasons thats NAI/Wifom so's this one. It shows you thought about what scum wouldn't do and then did it. Which is pretty much what I did earlier Because of this, its entirely Wifom/NAI Depending on use. The way you structured it is more WIFOM while I feel my one is NAI. Either way though, you cannot determine anything from it..

Additionally; If you feel XYZZY is not scum you should expand why you feel that way else your just saying words. Its why when I said I was starting to get someone I felt was scummy I purposely left out who because I don't really have more than GUT on that side as there isn't that great of stuff going on.

Speaking of that though

BS'd list of reads so far

{KTS}
{Naomi}
{Jord, BlackStar}
{massive, pistachi0n, Skelda}
{Io}
{Vedith, light, Creature}
{xyzzy}

At the time I didn't question this list, but now I am so.. yeah; Can you explain each of these reads other than the Null line; {massive, pistachi0n, Skelda} Unless you wish to say stuff about them in which case feel free (but those are really low activity people so far) This will allow more conversation hopefully and get some momentum as I feel we are running kinda slow on the conversation front. For the same reasons for wanting his vote expanded apply to this list; Without knowing why on these things we will be unable to look into them deeper and a quick summery on each is great for helping discussion some of the time. More is better but a couple sentances is good too this is D1 and only a few pages in after all.

I'm kinda slow to make my own reads, but I'll aid to get the first list up around page 10, (or as soon as im awake post page 10)

[Naomi-Tan]

Additionally; If you feel XYZZY is not scum you should expand why you feel that way else your just saying words. Its why when I said I was starting to get someone I felt was scummy I purposely left out who because I don't really have more than GUT on that side as there isn't that great of stuff going on.

Either, I don't have anything more than say other than "was there when she could lurk"

On your lurk statement I reviewed there activity in an iso and its not that great. No better than mine though so eh? But anyway they seem to ask pretty okay questions. but this wasn't the focus of my iso. It was to check your statement and tbh I'm not seeing it from your perspective. They have done 8 posts so far 2 of which was RVS (which arguably we are still in kinda?) some stuff talking about general game meta (the day talk, Putting people L-2) but when it comes to your statement I find it rather perplexing. Not sure what else to say on this topic.

PEDIT; Hey looks like my activity stimuli has kicked in! but can you cover your scum reads as they are most important to game flow? (I know you said 3 but Scum reads are the important ones as it allows to cross check for fake reasoning)

PEDIT2; I haven't been asked for explanations on anything because so far I haven't given out many reads As far as I'm concerned I like Transcend for his early read list (though I'm currently squeezing it for more information to assist town and to try and get a more active scum hunting // create discussions over stuff to get the ball flowing a little better.) and KTS ...... And then KTS was moved back to null.. just noticed the entire game he has been using friendly terms and acting like I'm town which is extremely strange as we are not linked in a role (aka we are not masons//lovers) and I don't think I've done anything too townie yet. I guess this is a strange case of me thinking he was being too friendly? he also uses terms like I'm always right.. so i'm kinda suspecting psychological tactics are at play there, or he is just being really friendly and nice and reads me as town and I'm being paranoid.. Could I get some 3rd party opinions on this matter in relation to his interactions with myself?

PEDIT3; Give me a chance to type XD

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: io You haven't done anything useful so far and you haven't even laid down a vote yet after all this time

You know what they say about people in glass houses... Yeah I saw this and then read the ISO on IO followed by yourself. your about equal.. so yeah..

[Naomi-Tan]

Let's go, 81 is a huge filler.

o and Light, Vedith, Naomi, Creature, Black, and Io.

All wagon this with me friends

Ew friends are gross.

If scum use daytalk right, any interaction or 'slip' can be fake.

Doesn't make it less believable I fake town slipped in my first newbie game which had day chat. But really any scum 'sliping' town is fake no matter what, daytalk just means they could do it earlier and maybe a bit easier, though in that game I posted that 'slip' was before my partner got on.

I'm just an eager beaver! I'm first on the list because I was the first one to sign up for the game, and I refreshed the thread like 20 times today waiting for it to unlock.

the fact that the scum have daytalk is interesting. it implies a higher than average power level among the town, or a lower than average power level among the scum.

Also a side note I haven't played a closed game before so is this right, and is there any general things to note that are very common to see in closed games? I've read the link provided by Dunn in the OP, and looked at setups for a few games, but that doesn't really get a very good feel for what is common.

P-edit:

Does this mean everybody who has posted besides Jordarrian is town?

I'm pretty sure Kill didn't say everyone other than Jord was town. Not as scummy sure, but not scummy on page 3 wouldn't be a town read for most people.

Quoting so we can see the post (and so I can write with less tabs open)
Okay so First part is filler!
Second part; Shows he thought about if it was a scum slip or a town slip and decided its too much WIFOM to go off of and explains that
Third part; is an inquirey into normal setups for these mini's
Fourth part; is confusing and I'll need to look up what you was talking about at the time, Sec!
Fortuh part take 2; Okay so.. looked it up this post just makes no sense and is entirely backwards given at the time and statements I looked like KTS was scum calling Jord while town calling myself. This is a pretty freaky misunderstanding that I dunno how it came about.

[Naomi-Tan]

What did i just read

I broke down IO's post 81 to filter out content?

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't think it's fake, but you completely lost me on the part 4 analysis

its cause or poor quoting. I starting looking at it. Then I found I was missing vital information namely KTS's reads at the bottom of page 3. So I had to look those up and created a new line to analyse it properly. I could of redacted line 4 take 1, but I wanted to have my thought process down.

PEDIT: Thanks missed it. not really nor have I.

[Naomi-Tan]

EBWODP: Its Cause

of

bad quoting.

[Naomi-Tan]

correction to 168 : Fortuh part take 2; Okay so.. looked it up this post just makes no sense and is entirely backwards given at the time and statements

It

looked like KTS was scum calling Jord while

calling me

town

calling myself

. This is a pretty freaky misunderstanding that I dunno how it came about.

[Naomi-Tan]

I should go back sleep 4 hours is not a good amount of time to sleep before scum hunting. I'm going to brb for a nap before I kill the English language more.

[Naomi-Tan]

I just woke up from my nap and I noticed we are on page 10 now so here is my plan in order; Firstly I want to respond to stuff that happened during my nap in a multi-quote and then I wish to give out my read list so far. So Give me a sec

[Naomi-Tan]

First part is filler
Second part is fluff, no opinions on who townslipped.
Third part, no actual scum hunting.
Not sure on the Fourth Part.

I disagree with this breakdown. Which is why I provided my own. Yours seems to ignore the content that is there.

1. xyzzy

2. Transcend

3. light_ganski
4. massive

5. Jordarrian
6. Killthestory
7. BlackStar
8. Creature

9. Skelda
10. Vedith
11. pistachi0n
12. Io

13. Naomi-Tan

Calm down guys, Creatures not scum!

Okay... I'll come back to this 2 posts but for now. Great job explaining these reads! (that was sarcasm btw)

Io

I already found your post weird, but I wanted someone to see what others thought first.

Yes I know what you are saying and what you are claiming, but I don't believe that is your intent.

Neither do I~

Creature has moved up in my books.

Wut?

What.

Massive hasn't even posted and you scum read him?

Forget about you moving up in my books.

VOTE: Creature

Okay then! Good now your back on the same page as me. Right onto part 2/3

[Naomi-Tan]

Read List 1.0

1. xyzzy - Null, there activity has been lacking and I havn't gotten a strong enough read to move them either way

2. Transcend - Likely town given there content thus far

3. light_ganski - Unsure, some of there activity seems scummy while other bits seem townie. Probably have a better read on this slot in my next read list

4. massive - Who? They havn't spoken yet. Most likely to be replaced by the gm shortly because of this.

5. Jordarrian - Firstly Anyone I have to ISO to try to remember really needs to pick up the pace, secondly Null? they haven't really DONE much of anything so.. Null.

6. Killthestory - Dunno, I find him budding me too strong to not recolonise that it influenced my perspective on things. I'm not really going to go either way because of this

7. BlackStar - Minor scummy reading, as the first person to focus on IO I iso'd there content in relation to his and found he wasn't doing much more content seems to me that he focused on a weaker town player who may been an issue once momentum picked up choosing to place the easy vote while it was easy. This said he could also believe what he was saying so yeah

8. Creature - My number one scum read right now. I'll talk about this in my next post, but feel free to run an ISO on him while I get that one ready.

9. Skelda - Firstly Anyone I have to ISO to try to remember really needs to pick up the pace, Secondly Null They literally done one post saying there gonna post later seems like a mod poke dodge.

10. Vedith -Minor scummy, Just not buying the roleclaim really. like no one really has to RC day one and he just sorta did it and that seems to be his major focus.

11. pistachi0n - Firstly Anyone I have to ISO to try to remember really needs to pick up the pace, secondly one post with a vote on myself at 104 posts with no reason given is sorta shitty. Still a Null though because what can you make of that?

12. Io - Might be town. Though there content at the start of the train on them was lacking they seem to have started forming well though out arguments and that seems likely to be townie.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay and now for the creature post 3/3
I currently suspect him of being scum due to his play style. but anyway breaking down this iso.
his first 9 posts was RVS / had no scum hunting so I'm ignoring Iso 0 - 8 or upto 43 and they can just be pushed aside. as the scum hunting only recently took an upshoot
First post I take as a scummy thing is here;

Yeah if the scum team are any good daytalk is more powerful than a PR so we probably have a few

I would like to point out that the fact scum have day talk is in the setup on page one encase anyone miss's it and thinks this is a scum slip.

We know, you don't need to whiteknight him.

In this post they accuse me of whitekingting baring in mind at the time no one was pressuring light and that was what made me kinda suspicious. Without a lynch train going on and no one pressuring them on the comment I made there was no reason or way I could be whiteknighting however after this post light started thinking I was for a couple of posts till I explained this at the time. now I'm interrupting this as him trying to make me seem worse at the time and maybe get a train my direction but i'm not done on creature yet.
Also this;

dude Jordarrian is p obv scum we should be voting him.

Holy shit I found another me

no lol Naomi is a G and p decent.

Does this mean everybody who has posted besides Jordarrian is town?

Here we can see him taking KTS's words and pretty much ignoring them. This also lead to IO posting about it in 81 and myself a few pages back.

lol if I were scum I wouldn't simply join the wagon like this.

VOTE: Io

I am not seeing xyzzy as scum.

Then we have this bit of WIFOM / LAMIST stuff. where he goes Scum won't do this and then votes with no reasoning for IO and states his veiws on someone else. At the time I pressured his XYYZY view and took the time to explain how its kinda bad to do stuff without reasoning with it. Here I'd like to expand on my thoughts on that subject slightly mid post you can skip this part if you like but It may also help you understand my read here; Just like how its super easy for scum to RoleClaim VT Its also easy for them to give votes and lists without reasoning. It comes off and looks like activity however anyone can give a list of names like that, you may do it strongest to weakest player or how you think generally town is but votes with no data are just that no data nothings that cannot be used to either find your alignment or read your true views other than eliminating other targets. This'll come up again in his read list.

Let's see:

Scum would want to make their posts less awkward.

Town is usually awkward at beginning.

Here we see another example of; What would I do if I was town. Much like the quotes above it shows that creature has been thinking about what is 'townie' and then doing things based on that while trying to avoid 'scummy' acts this stateing of stuff when he does it just makes me think that he is scum thinking about what he should do as town and then doing that. in contrast to my own post which I made just declaring as a blanket I'll do certain things, his posts are always followed by doing what he feels is a 'townie' action while myself as town put it at the start and then only did those things slowly over time as they came up, as once I posted my intro post I don't think about what is scummy or townie and just post what i'm thinking at the time (and sometimes my thoughts mid post)

Additionally; If you feel XYZZY is not scum you should expand why you feel that way else your just saying words. Its why when I said I was starting to get someone I felt was scummy I purposely left out who because I don't really have more than GUT on that side as there isn't that great of stuff going on.

Either, I don't have anything more than say other than "was there when she could lurk"

Then there is this weird thing. Where he defends XYZYY pretty much because I asked him how he got his read. If you look back at the ISO of XYZYY upto creatures post of 154 you can see there isn't much going on that would be considered active scum hunting to make this read in the first place. Making me think he didn't take the time to construct why XYZYY was not scum and when asked panicked and said something that came to mind (his activity) however, upon research this shouldn't been the case.

Now we get to the blackstar IO vote;

VOTE: io You haven't done anything useful so far and you haven't even laid down a vote yet after all this time

Let's go, 81 is a huge filler.

Upon having blackstar join his wagon he declared that post 81 was nothing but filler over simplifying to point of irrelevance. having this pointed out I decided to look into post 81 to see if it was just all filler before I accepted what he said. I read the post quoted below as followed;

o and Light, Vedith, Naomi, Creature, Black, and Io.

All wagon this with me friends

Ew friends are gross.

If scum use daytalk right, any interaction or 'slip' can be fake.

Doesn't make it less believable I fake town slipped in my first newbie game which had day chat. But really any scum 'sliping' town is fake no matter what, daytalk just means they could do it earlier and maybe a bit easier, though in that game I posted that 'slip' was before my partner got on.

I'm just an eager beaver! I'm first on the list because I was the first one to sign up for the game, and I refreshed the thread like 20 times today waiting for it to unlock.

the fact that the scum have daytalk is interesting. it implies a higher than average power level among the town, or a lower than average power level among the scum.

Also a side note I haven't played a closed game before so is this right, and is there any general things to note that are very common to see in closed games? I've read the link provided by Dunn in the OP, and looked at setups for a few games, but that doesn't really get a very good feel for what is common.

P-edit:

Does this mean everybody who has posted besides Jordarrian is town?

I'm pretty sure Kill didn't say everyone other than Jord was town. Not as scummy sure, but not scummy on page 3 wouldn't be a town read for most people.

Okay so First part is filler!
Second part; Shows he thought about if it was a scum slip or a town slip and decided its too much WIFOM to go off of and explains that
Third part; is an inquirey into normal setups for these mini's

Fortuh part take 2; Okay so.. looked it up this post just makes no sense and is entirely backwards given at the time and statements It looked like KTS was scum calling Jord while calling me town calling myself. This is a pretty freaky misunderstanding that I dunno how it came about.

After putting my views out where I think I summed up nicely what they said he put this over simplification out trying to make his stance better

First part is filler
Second part is fluff, no opinions on who townslipped.
Third part, no actual scum hunting.
Not sure on the Fourth Part.

I strongly disagree with this break down as it ignores certain key points such as the second part being all fluff with no comment on the slip is untrue as they was saying its too much WIFOM to speculate and the 3rd part being no actual scum hunting doesn't matter as they was trying to work out the game. Then there is the fourth part which he didn't comment on.. (the 4th of his post is NAI)

You remember his read list.. I told you I'd come back to it

1. xyzzy

2. Transcend

3. light_ganski
4. massive

5. Jordarrian
6. Killthestory
7. BlackStar
8. Creature

9. Skelda
10. Vedith
11. pistachi0n
12. Io

13. Naomi-Tan

Right lets quickly go through the people he eliminated from this list. theres himself (which is bad. You shouldn't need to include yourself in a read list and its a little tacky. LAMIST ) Next Thing I notice is he crossed out all the most active towny players. myself KTS and Transcend. then there is xyzzy not crossed out despite him thinking he was town earlier and all the weaker town left in with two acceptations; Blackstar and Jordaman. Now if I had to guess he included one scum buddy in his town list and didn't include another. the XYZZY elimination could been done for distancing and as for the scum left in I'd suspect blackstar for the IO vote this of course is speculation on my part. but my veiw stands that a few of these reads are really off hilter and reads that I really cannot see. for example black star and XYZZY's play is pretty close but one posted more recently and moving on.

I am actually tempted to whiteknight Io.

I don even know what that means.

Hard defend someone.

Finally this flip flop changing from trying to get an IO train started to considering to protect them, normally speaking when you think someone is scum you don't rotate on a dial as it is. as im Scum reading them I'm seeing this as them trying to backtrack after biting off a bit more than they can chew.

My scum veiw on creature is not comprised of a single post but multiple posts as you can now see. It wasn't any one of these things that made me veiw them as scummy but the composition of the whole each I found to move them slightly closer to being scum and it wasn't till I looked at this full picture that I decided to make them my number one pick. and without further ado time for my first vote of the game VOTE: Creature

well I've said a lot and I expect others will want to respond and may add or subtract from this list. its pretty sizeable though so sorry about that, its kinda what happens when you compile like this.

PEDIT; @Creature I think she is saying that I was scum read on page 5 but i'm not now

[Naomi-Tan]

Let's make it simpler:

How many games you played in this site so far?

6 complete games.

[Naomi-Tan]

Mother of God Naomi, no one is gonna read that whole thing. I bet you ten bucks that you could've said less than you did.

Maybe but I'd rather put everything else at once.

[Naomi-Tan]

Let's make it simpler:

How many games you played in this site so far?

care to offer anything else, pistachi0n?

Yes! Killthestory hasn't lived up to his promises at all, what a disappointment. Creature who thinks me naked voting someone in my first post is scummy has probably never played with me before. I was weakly scumreading Naomi after reading the first five pages because I thought her posts were fluffy. Now my top scumread is BlackStar, VOTE: blackstar

Why am I your top scumread?

None of your posts have...content

I warned you about glass houses bro I told you dawg.

[Naomi-Tan]

Mother of God Naomi, no one is gonna read that whole thing. I bet you ten bucks that you could've said less than you did.

Why not? It's only a few paragraphs. Plus I read it.

Fun Facts about my mega vote post;

Words; 1,183
Characters; 6,081
Sentences; 25
Paragraphs; 20
Top 3 most used words; Scum(16), Post(15), Read & Time(9)

[Naomi-Tan]

Let's make it simpler:

How many games you played in this site so far?

6 complete games.

Isn't that enough games to know it's easy to make a huge post containing all flaws someone made?

No its really not. If you look at the time stamps (as I worked non-stop) it took about an hour to create that and though its easy just to put the flaws out its harder to think about each post critically and construct a post displaying why you think someone is scummy.

[Naomi-Tan]

Sheeping isn't scummy (specially this early), it can be town-motivated or scum-motivated.

If you notice, my posts have some reaction tests and jokes inside. Common for town that wants to push the game earlier. Uncommon for scum that's concentrated to not get attention.

yeah but its post like this one that makes me think your scum more than anything where you show your purposely looking at what town would do and do it. Town don't normally think what town would do not like this .. It also makes me think your purposely looking at your own meta as town and trying to duplicate it as scum.

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't like when someone acts like "everything can be faked", how would the game work? Stay in the shadows and wait someone make a flaw?

Well not to prove your point, but everything can be faked. The thing is that you really can't take everything at face value and say that every town slip must be from town and you can't be skeptical of every single thing posted. The point where the "everythign can be faked" comes in is when looking at a person as a whole through their ISO and interactions with others to reach a conclusion of "OK they are likely not to be faking this town slip because they've done this and that which x number of coincidences means it's more likely to not be scum faking a slip," or "OK they are likely to be faking this because of the way they approached it and this and that makes them look more consistently scummy even in smaller amounts so it probably is indeed scum faking it."

This is also the view im coming from. I took so many posts and put them together not because one thing stood out but it was a slow slide of mounting things that piled up to make me think this way.

[Naomi-Tan]

That was a long enough awkward pause. The point of the post was to show how I was thinking trying to explain it to creature. I don't think it took an expert to explain that. It matters not if its textbook stuff Its just what needed to be said and your post make me pause in shock for a while.

[Naomi-Tan]

Wait, my post made you pause in shock?

the utter oblivious nature of it.

[Naomi-Tan]

Wait, my post made you pause in shock?

the utter oblivious nature of it.

This means it was NAI but just took me off balance like a swing I wasn't expecting, to use a fighting metaphor.

[Naomi-Tan]

I looked it up, its NAI IMO. as if you was saying I don't care about my alignment I don't like them.

[Naomi-Tan]

my issue is that his complaints don't offer any way to interact with them. I'm not saying that I don't understand his arguments, I'm saying that his arguments are constructed in such a way that trying to counter them in any way is futile because of how subjective they are. things like asking questions and referring to specific statements show a good faith effort to make sure that if I'm not scum that I have a chance to show it, and I feel like Transcend is going out of his way to make that impossible for me.

you can't interact with someone saying "hey give more content" without just ignoring them and giving content

[Naomi-Tan]

light_ganski
massive
Vedith
pistachi0n

Would easily wagon any of these

I can understand why you said light and Vedith, but not the other two. Can you explain your reads?

massive is null.

I didn't decide on pistachi0n yet.

Everybody else has done something that I find town.

If I wasn't voting you before I'd do it now... Lych all Lairs (saying he doesn't find them scummy when he literally just said he did 9 posts ago)

[Naomi-Tan]

I scumread nullreads and I believe town!massive would've done something.

Also, don't come with "Lynch all Liars"

Null =/= Scummy Null means nothing no read as in neutral NIA neither good nor bad, Balanced, Ect. This is not even good. I can't believe this to be a thing thats true! Null is just too clear to mistake It feels like your just making stuff up now to cover your ass

[Naomi-Tan]

Hey guys, eat some bad food so don't really want to be chatting right now. just popping it to tell xyzzy that they can find all games I've been in within my Wiki page.

[Naomi-Tan]

pssht nice q+, jeez

Naomi

, don't take this the wrong way, but is English your first language?

yes it is. Looks like I've slept off the worst of it now so I'ma go back over the posts I skipped because Of being bleh. One sec.

[Naomi-Tan]

I scumread nullreads and I believe town!massive would've done something.

Also, don't come with "Lynch all Liars"

Null =/= Scummy Null means nothing no read as in neutral NIA neither good nor bad, Balanced, Ect. This is not even good. I can't believe this to be a thing thats true! Null is just too clear to mistake It feels like your just making stuff up now to cover your ass

I'm not saying that you're scum, but the wording of your posts feels very awkward

Wow, yeah reading that is a little bit terrible I should really keep things more condense and not try to reference Monty python sketches. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE

[Naomi-Tan]

I scumread nullreads and I believe town!massive would've done something.

Also, don't come with "Lynch all Liars"

Null =/= Scummy Null means nothing no read as in neutral NIA neither good nor bad, Balanced, Ect. This is not even good. I can't believe this to be a thing thats true! Null is just too clear to mistake It feels like your just making stuff up now to cover your ass

I'm not saying that you're scum, but the wording of your posts feels very awkward

all of it is solid, just the part where you concluded i was scum is wrong.

i'll defend myself in full detail.

I was willing to bw with KTS on Jord to generate reactions, which we got.

Creature's posts are awkward and in a scummy way, not in a towny way. He also WIFOM'd a bit. And finally I don't agree with the reads he has.

Io's response to Creature/BlackStar vote was pretty bad. Didn't see the self vote as towny so I threw her a vote and gave Creature BOTD until he tried to push on inactive slots.

I did complain about Naomi, which I probably could've done without, but it is what it is.

Voting xyzzy was lightly pushing her, and encouraging others to vote her as well to add pressure.

And last but not least, I never said that I scumread Naomi at all. I only said her posts and gimmick were annoying and I was okay policy lynching her for a bit. But then she dropped the gimmick. I hate third party gimmick accounts.

I still don't understand this gimmick thing and find it confusing that you say I stopped something.. What even was the gimick you was refrencing. as for the other stuff only the IO vote sticks out as kinda wrong here as If you thought it looked weird you should of looked up the ISO and decided if they was scum or town before nailing down a vote. But I guess reactions based on one thing can be quite common so its okay there.

could you explain what bw is and what kinda reactions your talking about? I'm not very good at reading reactions.

[Naomi-Tan]

and gimmick were annoying and I was okay policy lynching her for a bit. But then she dropped the gimmick. I hate third party gimmick accounts.[/quote]

Not doing anything scummy is easy, being towny isn't.

... are these not the same things?

[Naomi-Tan]

Black is town.

agree

Disagree. Though I'm not really able to back that up at this stage, probs do it at my next big review (page 20)

[Naomi-Tan]

Right now I could do Creature or Light, though going back and reading Light's ISO I think they are a bit more suspicious than Creature.
I don't see them as being TvT at the very least, and SvS is questionable so it looks like it would be TvS.

VOTE: Light
That post I mentioned earlier just doesn't quite sit right with me.

As for Vedith I don't know. I would need to look more at them.

what do you find suspicious about light? You say there more suspicious than creature but you don't exposit the reasons for this being so and what stands out to you. I would like a more detailed analysis of the situation.

[Naomi-Tan]

Yh you guys all look town from this

There are scum in jordarrian vedith + creature. Maybe blackstar too

VOTE: Creature

lol that's self-explanatory

He's prob distancing Vedith here.

This doesn't follow; Light was scum reading Jord and Vedith from an ealier post than the quoted one and after me rb's and creds interactions he was updating his read list as we moved up to townie. this meant the people that posted was sorted in there minds by early interactions/posts. Quoted below is the other post.

Hmm jordarrian and naomi are null-scum leaning but it's too early to pin them down, naomi more for the subtle white knighting and buddying than for 48. Would say the same of vedith but I know from experience he's a scummy scumbag even as town but IGMEOY

PEDIT: I guess?? I have no idea what your saying here tbh I was asking what this gimmick thing is.. And I don't understand your answer.

[Naomi-Tan]

Town - KTS, Naomi, Transcend, Xyzzy, maybe Io, Pistachi0n
Scum - Creature, vedith
Dunno - jordarrian, blackstar

He tagged KTS, Naomi and Transcend as town because he wouldn't want to 1v1 then.

I wonder how he got to xyzzy and pistachi0n.

Sigh... You remember what I said about glass houses?

light_ganski
massive
Vedith
pistachi0n

Would easily wagon any of these

[Naomi-Tan]

381 This isn't a good post. Not from a read stand point just from a technical one as Now I'm going to need to open 50 tabs or so just to get to understand this post. Please stop using this format.

[Naomi-Tan]

Page 13 with the xyzzy "caught for the wrong reasons" post.

VOTE: xyzzy

Creature wagon looks suspect as heck since I see it right above me. It's like the list of players half-paying-attention. And Naomi. Come on Naomi.

Come on what? and is this post reading my vote post?

[Naomi-Tan]

Page 13 with the xyzzy "caught for the wrong reasons" post.

VOTE: xyzzy

Creature wagon looks suspect as heck since I see it right above me. It's like the list of players half-paying-attention. And Naomi. Come on Naomi.

im done for now. might tackle XYYZY's stuff later

[Naomi-Tan]

I could of done what I did on page 10 with one big multi-quote, but I didn't as I wondered what would be easier to read so I thought I'd mix it up a little and get feed back.

[Naomi-Tan]

xyzzy, - Null
light_ganski,- Slight town read
BlackStar - slight scum read
(towncred) - town read

Whats your point massive? I got only 1 of them as maybe scum and that could be distancing or sheeping..?

[Naomi-Tan]

I know that you said you can't back up your scum read on me, but can you try?

I could but I like giving my full reads every 10 pages, on page 10 there is a small comment on it proper I could expand more but I like doing full reads in bulk so when I look at everyone back to back I can get a more 'true' feeling on the players as a whole to help me take things in better context. In other words. wait till page 20 :3

[Naomi-Tan]

xyzzy, - Null
light_ganski,- Slight town read
BlackStar - slight scum read
(towncred) - town read

Whats your point massive? I got only 1 of them as maybe scum and that could be distancing or sheeping..?

Baka.
Like fully disagree.
xyzzy is a little scummy, but not as much as Light and Black is Null to me.

eh? why you find light back, if you don't mind me asking.

The Xyzzy null is because I really CBA to deal with that multi-post link chain as It takes me a while to load each webpage so that would of taken me hours to look over :/ I don't like to judge when I haven't put the effort in to fully read them. I guess I'll do that a little later.

[Naomi-Tan]

I think the area your talking about is not really a good area it was barely out of RVS and seems totally irrelevant to the current environment. I think thats where we differ as I see that as just an innocent comment and not scummy and the creature train didn't exist when they voted them.

PEDIT; Light post more about stuff.

[Naomi-Tan]

Hmm.. can you not Town!Read those posts? Cause.. Im interupting them differently so.. I guess this is a case of interruption making the difference.

[Naomi-Tan]

Yeah but you linked a massive amount and it takes me like 1-2m to load the webpage each refresh :/ It would take me on that post quoted; 42 minutes to open each referenced part

[Naomi-Tan]

Yes thats fine for one link but you made 28 links in your last post

[Naomi-Tan]

Sorry im late I wanna properly look over XYZZY's stuff before doing my read list. if thats cool. Might take me a little bit but after that I'll be willing to comment on my current reads so.. one sec while I deal with there thread

[Naomi-Tan]

So In order to do this properly I want to compare 2 things; There active reads, and the comments given. So this top section will be there last known reads (within 100 pages ) And will merely be interrupted with post links (that thing I dislike others doing) I expect if they wish to correct me they will do so, but they should be connected. as a sub note continuing our format war; Next time could you put a blank line between pages so I can at least go these are page one sec. thanks XYZZY

Okay... so erm.. there is 100 pages of no reads given here .. I guess I'll go back another 100 O_o

Or in 200.. Guess I will go into this blind then as anything more back than 200 is likely different now and unreliable to go off of. Though I dislike the fact there isn't reads this far back

Okay to make this easy I'm going to spilt this into 3 parts; Bits I like, Bits I would like expanding and Things That I take issue with. That way we can skip to the good parts after a quick summery

Things I agree with / Think is good. These are townie things.

36 (Killthestory): I didn't read Jordarrian's response as defensive, and it's weird that you did.

I agree Though I think it could of been a way to get conversation rolling. as it was still RVS area.

55 (Naomi-Tan): I definitely feel the same way as you describe in the first paragraph here a lot; I usually have much stronger town reads than scum reads.

Though I think there read is NAI I like the way they thought and described there own thought process here as akin to my own. being open about playstyle I feel is important to remove confusion.

57 (Creature): I don't really like this post very much; Naomi-Tan's post wasn't as bad as Creature seems to imply no matter what you thought of it imo

Totally agree this was the first time I got suspicious of creature for using the term on what wasn't a white-knight time.

60 (Vedith): remember what I said earlier about RVS votes when discussion has already started? same thing.

Well.. while I do think that at this stage Vedith could of commented about stuff I do also think that the RVS was kinda stalled still at this point and momentum was yet to be grasped. I agree they should of put more but disagree that it was inappropriate to RVS This is kinda an NAI though. Due to the Duel Motivation of it all.

62 (Vedith): nope.

Nope.

65 (Vedith): not a fan of this.

Another good point I dislike how they shut down discussion here its at this point im going to redact my vote from later in this post (welcome to non-chronological ordering)

81 (Io): in general I feel like trying to figure out the structure of the game at this point in time is really fruitless beyond just broad statements like "town's probably strong", so trying to figure out what's common doesn't seem like a good plan. also, the P-edit at the bottom is good.

I like how they didn't say they was scummy like my other scum reads. I think its a townie thing to see there views differ from others.

VOTE: naomi

104 (pistachi0n): this isn't a good post. by page 4 you should have something to say about your vote for sure.

I kinda agree However, It could also been a reaction test at the time I may of commented on it but I can't remember (nor do I care to check at this stage) so.. Eh?

Yeah i do not like gimmick accounts in these games

VOTE: naomi

this just in kts and naomi are softclaimed masons

because i don't know how anyone could like the toxicity that is naomi

they're prob town i agree, but their posting style annoys me. wouldn't mind a vig on them lol.

10 (Transcend): I really don't like this post at all.
112 (Transcend): this is a terrible post for so many reasons, including the fact that, if you genuinely believe 2 people are masons, saying so on day 1 is basically just super unhelpful.

Strong town reasoning here (for the role stuff) I think its easy enough for scum to fake though Its enough to get another unvote XD

140 (light_ganski): it's interesting that light_ganski went from reading Naomi-Tan as null-scum to town from post 107 to 140. this post is okay.

I like this comment as it again goes aganist the active thoughts of this part of the game. shows they are not just wagon and looking for where to push much like where they looked at 81

lol if I were scum I wouldn't simply join the wagon like this.

VOTE: Io

I am not seeing xyzzy as scum.

143 (Creature): I'm not a fan of this post and I disagree.

I think Scum!XYZZY would have no reason to point this post out. as its saying there townie and would only make creatures veiw drop and they had no reason to do that as scum. For this reason I'm liking XYZZY even more.

156 (Creature): I don't like this post.

It consistent to what she said about 127 and I like how they are defending there scum read as it fits in with there self description back in there analysis of 55 It would be easier as scum to ignore this post for there Transcend train.

185 (Vedith): y'know, you've still not actually clarified whether you were serious or not. 186 points toward you being serious, but you've not explicitly answered that question.

Kinda off topic but I'd love if this was clarified today.

188 (Io): this defense of post 81 from Io seems... reasonable.
189 (Vedith): Vedith continues to make unclear posts that do not significantly contribute to the game.

I just agree with these... not more to it.

Things I would like expanding. Things in this section basically come down to why do you think that? please elaborate.

19 (Killthestory): I don't think this post would come from scum.

Why? Please explain why scum would not do this or could not?

Jordarrian

Someone got a guilty on you.

Jordarrian.

T O P K E K

Jordarrian

Someone got a guilty on you.

Nice try, I read the thread.

28 (Jordarrian): this is a good response to Creature's post 27.

Errr Why? Like.. ... Why?

VOTE: Jordarrian

VOTE: jordarrian

VOTE: Jordarrian

32-34: once any of Transcend, BlackStar, Creature or Jordarrian are dead, these 3 posts will be worth thinking about in more detail.

So... Your okay with this wagon. But then you say that about the wagon people? Now I'm just confused. So I'm going to go with; What? why?

Yeah if the scum team are any good daytalk is more powerful than a PR so we probably have a few

I would like to point out that the fact scum have day talk is in the setup on page one encase anyone miss's it and thinks this is a scum slip.

50 (Naomi-Tan): this post feels like it comes from town.

Looks NAI to me, why do you think its townie btw?

67 (Vedith): another post I dislike from Vedith!

Why? I can see it being a cool early claim if they copped scum. I would like to know why you feel this is a bad post?

because they're obv scum

76 (Killthestory): I have a bad habit of interpreting these sorts of posts as scummy even though they're usually not.

Err... Why? What is your reason for scum reading this kinda post?

is there a known ratio of mafia to town fwiw

122 (Transcend): Transcend, would you be willing to comment on what made you make this post?

Isn't trying to work out how many scum there are pretty normal? why did you feel the need to question this one? and isn't it NAI?

you're*

135 (Transcend): why did you feel the need to make this post? it feels annoying and unhelpful.

This comment was entirely unneeded why did you feel the need to make this comment? it feels annoying.... wait.. but yeah this lack lustier comment has now taken up multiple lines and posts entirely unneeded tbh I like it would of saved me a line or two in here just by not including it in your analysis I find it strange you would include such a pointless detail though.

not a bad vote light

can you guess why i fos creature >:)

142 (Transcend): this is an okay post.

Why? there isn't any new information given its just approval of a vote what do you like about this post?

152 (Naomi-Tan): I think gut reads are absolutely fine as long as you make it clear that that's what they are.

Given the content of 152 at the time I wasn't ready to voice my gut reads. Gut reads are pretty good but at the same time If your not able to defend those gut reads scum could put pressure onto them and force a misslynch so I try to hold back my votes longer than normal and only doing so when I feel pretty sure of my reads. though sometimes they can be talked down (like how in this post I've been sure your scum only to be hit with a bunch of townie posts and then gone, maybe there town.)

161 (BlackStar): you're one to talk.

I like how they took the time to Iso them upto 402 (unless they took my word for it) It shows pro-activeness and that they took the time to understand everything

Naomi

If you do like explanations, why not do some of them yourself?

Kinda wanna lynch Naomi they're annoying

184 (Vedith): not a huge fan of this post.

how does someone be or not be a fan of this post? Really this comment confuses me XD

Things That we will explore. These are things I disagree with or think looks scummy

Good, I have a N0 guilty peek on you.
VOTE: xyzzy

5 (Creature): an RVS OMGUS. probably irrelevant but I'm noting it just in case it feels relevant later.

So... your taking an RVS omgus vote as potentually scummy. a joke vote done on the first page.. REALLY? And something you could of commented on before but didn't? I feel that town wouldn't have a reason to comment on a RVS in a serious manner like this. It just seems desperate and kinda reaching.

I've decided to obvious town this game because I feel like it, meaning I'm going to destroy any of you who are scum. I apologize, but this is now a no-fun zone. RVS will be allowed within the first two pages, and then you'll be eliminated.

6 (Killthestory): I get a slight town read from this post; I feel like these sorts of things involving making really broad, unlikely statements like this immediately come from town.

Really? you just make a habbit of taking the RVS seriously? and you town read it? I mean its a post thats 100% LAMIST its just entirely NAI Its a joke comment and you just was like; they told a joke that means they are more likely to be town? I just don't.. >_<

20 (BlackStar): these kinds of things where someone doesn't notice some aspect of the setup mentioned in the rules that is only directly relevant to scum generally feels town.

Okay so.. in 19 she liked where KTS obversed that scum can fake slips and then doesn't question this interaction like; KTS announced that scum can fake slips then someone does a slip right after and you just brought it? despite liking KTS's Observation? I dislike how these two things you thought was town lined up.

What up

VOTE: pistachi0n

Am allergic to nuts

24 (Transcend): I'm generally not a huge fan of it when someone RVS votes when there's already discussion going, but I think overall it's a null tell on its own. if it's combined with very little other content later on, though, that's bad.

Firstly; this was still on page 1 which is perfectly fine for RVS and secondly RVS wasn't even over at this stage, there was no trackion other than someone had gone; Scum have day talk. and people going, yes. Now what would you suggest they put other than a random vote; "Hi good work on looking at the rules section." this was a perfectly valid RVS, vote.

Alright hello guys! This is technically my first game because both my newbie games I replaced out. Killthestory knows me on another forum which I prefer to play mafia from, but I think we only played 1 game with each other.

If you guys would like links to see my games from there then let me know

VOTE: Jordarrian

Yo Transcend wagon this w/ me

29 (Killthestory): I'm okay with this post.

Yo Dawg I heard you like wagons. So I joined the wagon against you. (I gave up meme'ing half way) VOTE: XYYZY Because I keep disagreeing with them as i'm reading through and I don't think there observations at town ones as a lot of them just look like there just saying everything is town :/ So wanna pressure them.

Yeah if the scum team are any good daytalk is more powerful than a PR so we probably have a few

I would like to point out that the fact scum have day talk is in the setup on page one encase anyone miss's it and thinks this is a scum slip.

We know, you don't need to whiteknight him.

I know you know but someone might of missed it

Pretty sure that, considering we were discussing how scum had daytalk, no one's going to think it's a scum slip. ...

61 (light_ganski): I feel like trying to derail the conversation by making something mundane like acknowledging the fact that scum have daytalk is something scum could plausibly do.

I feel that It was on topic for the time as quoted. and wouldn't the derailing thing apply to creature more?

86 (Transcend): I feel like all of Transcend's posts that I've commented on were things where I was like "that's a bit scummy" but I'd not really paid attention to the fact that all of them come from the same person. this is bad.

Well so far in this post you talked about them once

regardless xyzzy should be a contender of rope

and why is that? you've yet to meaningfully substantiate what about my play so far you dislike.

and going back through You commented once about them and they answered back with a responsible response for why they disliked your posts.

Killthestory, of the players who haven't posted yet, which is the scummiest? thanks

Why?

I have a day guilty on him...

can you confirm that you're being serious about this statement? BlackStar, what's your thoughts?

I don't like how Jordarrian responded to that wagon, but I'm definitely not putting someone at L-2 on page 4 because that would be irresponsible

care to offer anything else, pistachi0n?

posts like these don't sound genuine

Then there are shade posts like this one which you question cred's voting habbits based on a post in the RVS section made by another player all togeather

Alright hello guys! This is technically my first game because both my newbie games I replaced out. Killthestory knows me on another forum which I prefer to play mafia from, but I think we only played 1 game with each other.

If you guys would like links to see my games from there then let me know

VOTE: Jordarrian

Yo Transcend wagon this w/ me

this post right here makes me very suspicious regarding Transcend's wagon habits

You do have one more comment but I redacted it if you guys are interested its 306 and 308 But This was analysis of the multi-part messages from her so we'll not cover those in this post just to save space on this already length quote post. But this last comment made me put my vote back on.

Yeah i do not like gimmick accounts in these games

88 (Transcend): also in what sense does Naomi-Tan seem like a gimmick account? what gimmick does she have?

Here they are not saying I'm a gimmick account. If I haddn't checked this It would of been in the townie section. but yeah, there not calling me a gimmick there. though I would be interested to know this too. (if it was true)

124 (Transcend: I've already said this, but I don't like the way Transcend sets up looking at me as scum; the only valid response to this is "I disagree" because it's completely subjective.

I covered this post on there look up at 86. However, as an ammendum now they are speaking more about there Scum!Scend read I'm finding it less scummy than I did back then. though I am doing my best to perverse my feelings as I track these two posts as they cover so much that my view is bouncing, its hard to show how reacting post by post in this format as there is what equates to 100 posts of posting in one block.

Naomi

If you do like explanations, why not do some of them yourself?

158 (Creature): another Creature post that I dislike.

Unlike in the last comment this one I disagree with. It is always a valid thing to ask for more explanations and at the time I haddn't really given out too many reads and been kinda cautious upto that stage. It was a perfectly valid thing to suspect me before page 10 for this kind of reasoning and I dunno why you would not like this post. If someone is not given information the thing you should do is pressure for it IMO, unless they say they'll give it later.

81 (Io): in general I feel like trying to figure out the structure of the game at this point in time is really fruitless beyond just broad statements like "town's probably strong", so trying to figure out what's common doesn't seem like a good plan. also, the P-edit at the bottom is good.

164 (Creature): looking back at post 81, I agree with this.

Your analysis doesn't match up with your thoughts here. What happened?

Also, I remember I said you not voting

isn't

scummy.

197 (Creature): this is a valid point.

Eeh.. true but its not IO's thoughts that matter here its creatures who was against not voting. so.. this doesn't really work as its not applying IO standards to Creature but comparing creatures standards to themselves.

Yo V, i looked at Blackstar's posts from the beginning of game til post 60 when you voted. Only thing i disagree from him is this:

Tos is kind of fun, but it's too easy because most of the players are horrible

And that's because tos is bottom tier garbage. I didn't get much from his posts up to your vote. Care to elaborate your scum read on him? Are you in a neighborhood with him or something and he made a bad post in your pt? I don't understand the death tunnel. Dibd your vote even start out as rvs? Help a guy pls.

199 (Transcend): more Transcend role fishing.

I'd disagree this looks like they want to dig deeper into the reason for there scum!blackstar read rather than the RVS reasoning and it could also be trying to pressure them to confirm what they claimed properly as there sorta being a little crazy in that department.

Comments I have no strong feelings on one way or another (NAI)

98, 108, 127, 128 (Means town Vs Town) 135, 163, 168, 180, 182

UNVOTE:
VOTE: creature Just returning my vote to where it was. obvs going to read them over when I get my mega read out. (this post was exhausting to make XD)
UNVOTE:
VOTE: XYZZY Okay so.. There focusing on Transcend's wagon just seems off to me as it doesn't line up with there reads over the game coming off as more OMGUS'y as they keep calling them suspicious and in reaction they have been focusing them for a while.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: creature

So yeah.. remember when I said I hate these posts.. This is the result of what happens when someone cross analysis's 200 posts of analysis at once. I'm not sure if anyone will make it through this but if you did you earn my respect.

PEDIT; yeah sorry this post took a LONG time to make (like I knew it would) Hope it was worth the wait. now onto my updated read list (sigh I already feel burnt out XD)

[Naomi-Tan]

Also, I remember I said you not voting

isn't

scummy.

god damn that took 3 and a half hours >_<

[Naomi-Tan]

Anyways bs'd reads #2

{Naomi, KTS}
{BlackStar}
{Massive, Io, Creature, Skelda}
{Jord, Pista}
{Light}
{Vedith, xyzzy}

Some changes:

1. Naomi is now in the top tier, no way she flips wolf.
2. Creature and Io out of the scumpool and into the town pool. I've been pleased with their posts as of lately.
3. BlackStar moves up a tier because I think his case on me albeit wrong was genuine and town processed.
4. Jorda moves to the null tier because I decided that his reaction to the BW could easily be faked when I initially dismissed it as town.
5. Pretty sure xyzzy was the only person I've had in the bottom tier, but I've now moved Vedith there. His vote compared to his reads looks inconsistent and he's never justified himself.
6. Massive's analysis of xyzzy was really good and something I agreed with. He didn't go too far in depth but he moves into the more townier than not tier.
7. Skelda's vote on KTS doesn't look like a wolf vote so I also put him in the same tier as massive.
8. I have 3 people in the scum tiers now as opposed to 5. Obviously I expect to be wrong on at least one, but I'd like to think I have at least one wolf in the bottom 3 tiers to focus on. Leaning heavily towards Vedith or xyzzy rope.

In the middle of Isoing to update but could you not do this riddle format and just update it by going; Updating read list and ordering it town to scum with your reasonings. it would certainly help (I do it in page 1 order but I should take this advice to order it )

[Naomi-Tan]

Blackstar made me laugh and every time I think about my post and that picture I laugh more XD

[Naomi-Tan]

Blackstar made me laugh and every time I think about my post and that picture I laugh more XD

You put a lot of effort into your post do I'll read it, but that's insanely long lol

as I said took me 3 and a half hours to write out. I had to look at XYZZY's post then to the source post, then back at XYZZY's post then concider how I felt and where to place this post. and then talk about why I felt the way I did.. It was equivalent to me looking at over 100 posts of analysis and responding XD

[Naomi-Tan]

1. xyzzy - town. Before the did read I did just above this post I had them as null as They haddn't contributed and that was starting to scum lean as they was posting just nothing of substance. however, after reading there big Summery blocks I found myself flipping back and forth and saw there reads mutating as they posted as well to me this would be truely hard for scum to replicate and there thoughts stayed consistent through out (bar one acception) after looking over it all I struggle to believe they could have scum motivations.

2. Transcend - okay so before the iso I had them as town, however during this look over they appear to be pushing XYZZY which after diving into there post head first I'm totally town solid right now. which is tarnishing my read on them. To me it looks like a TvT fight and thats sorta eh? I guess I'm slightly less sure of my town read than before so.. slight town?

3. light_ganski - Pre-Iso Slight town read, post Iso; Slight scum read I don't like how they rarely talk about good posting and town posting (there read list being there only here are town people post) I also dislike how they had pistachi0n as town in 294 it seems weird they would get that vibe after just 4 posts.

4. massive - I went it with a pretty null veiw into the ISO. Now; Eh.. kinda scum-Nullish I feel that they havn't posted enough to warrent a scummy read but They are pushing someone I now town read and It feels pretty.. weak? I dunno.. This ones got me on the fence a little I feel that they might be scum or not.. this one is hard.. Gut plays a large part here but I also don't like how there only town read is me (because I feel by now I'm obvious as a flare) Which seems kinda off to me. and even then they never said I was town but just implied they thought that. Its really award. I also don't buy there scum slip argument :/ oh yeah and post more

5. Jordarrian - This guy dropped off the face of the earth I don't even remember them So.. IF I have to ISO to remember you, you should post more; And after reading we get another null (but with a slightly smaller hint of scummy) I dislike how we have literally no analysis to go off of in the last 10 pages(well 11 now) but they do make town comments on occasion They really havn't spoken much though and that makes me kinda lean a little scummy just because of the lurk factor. however, they are still pretty null.

6. Killthestory - Okay... so last time I did one of these read lists I had KTS as null as I felt that his constant naomi is towning was impairing my judgement fortunately he didn't do as much this phrase and also didn't do much else really Time for a controversial read. after my ISO (230 - present) I'm slight scum reading him. all of his posts seem to be about him being great at scum hunting with very little scum hunting going on all very fluffy and with no meat to it. this doesn't leave me with a real pro-town feel

7. BlackStar - Okay had a slight scum read on him earlier from his look at IO and his statements saying X is scummy while doing X (See every time I mention glass houses) I only recently said this and Before Iso I'd still be there so lets see if the ISO changes my mind. and after reviewing.. I have them as a slight town. there posting style seems close to mine with little posts scattered throughout with little bits of content this leaves a smaller impact on there own but when looked over in bulk they make a more soild stance on town blackstar. They also seem the type who is weaker in the early game.

8. Creature - okay final ISO, Last time I looked at creature I concluded they was town and focused them for the last 250 posts or so, but putting that aside lets re-read them and see if I feel they are more townie. ISO; Okay starting off his defence is flimsy at best as if he wasn't expecting it his links to meta (even though I didn't read it) could be a thing he does as town. the fact he multi-sourced it makes me think its very likely to be true. so I'll continue this Iso thinking on that; I dislike his pushing of IO (still) and I also don't like his lynch list including the idle players.. ; eh.. I guess I can slightly more see a Town!Creature right now. as unlikely as that is, but if V or Light flipped town I'd be back on him. I'm gonna be reducing my scum read on him enough to switch votes to V

9. Skelda - Firstly If I have to ISO to remember you, you need to post more often; Null yup.. They agree with my KTS thoughts right now (and appear to have beaten me to the punch though I didn't know it till now (this is the second to last iso btw Im doing it in order from most to least sure)) and yeah I like how they gave a controversial read that was unlikely to get traction and may of resulted in there lynch but there activity is lacking at best... Eh lets raise them to slight town. giving benafit of the doubt on thinking on it.

10. Vedith - Before Isoing I'm slight scum reading them. they tunnelled blackstar hard (and this is kinda half iso result from the other stuff I looked at) so.. I'm not sure if anything will change so I'm going to read back over. Bleh, that Iso was not any better. reading this toxic attitude is nasty.

11. pistachi0n - Mild scum read. they don't post very often and when they do they don't say much. at least I make up for my inactive times by mega posts and smaller comments as we proceed. they also don't go deep into there thoughts saying things like; "I am townreading creature and the creature wagon is scum" - 406

12. Io - I like there content. they don't post very often but when they do its a more bulky post which always has some manner of content. least pre-iso; and post Iso too. Awesome Likely town

VOTE: Vedith I feel they been joking most of the game and hasn't contributed much and goes berserk when pressured I also don't really like there attitude as it doesn't seem very nice.

So Final thing from town to scum

TOWN

XYZZY
IO
Transcend
Blackstar & light_ganski
Skelda
Jordarrian
KTS & Massive
Creature
pistachi0n & Vedith

SCUM

[Naomi-Tan]

Well hope that big update post was good XD because it sure was exhausting XD

[Naomi-Tan]

You could not pay me hard enough or fuck me hard enough to read 510.

Hehe I knew you wouldn't take the time to read it. but I bet its a quicker read than it was to type.

[Naomi-Tan]

WHY DOES THE SITE LOOK WONKY AM I THE ONLY PERSON THIS IS HAPPENING TO?

I guess?

Reset your router if that doesn't fix it reset your computer and if it is still not fixed open a command line as an admin and type ipconfig /flushDNS followed by Ipconfig /registerdns and if that still doesn't fix it call up your ISP and moan at them.

[Naomi-Tan]

Ever think your signature underminds your point?

[Naomi-Tan]

reading this toxic attitude is nasty.

Because I don't tip toe around fake posts like 48



Anyway, enough of responding to children...

So far Blackstar has lied about my reads, then blamed it on not reading properly then ignores questions at him.
He's scum. I would like to explain more but site rules are site rules.

1. I didn't lie about anything
2. What questions have I ignored?
C. You're distorting the truth in order to justify your read

4D. Your also belittling others by calling them things like children. @Vedith
5E how come you couldn't stick to one mathmatical system XD @BlackStar

[Naomi-Tan]

4. massive - I went it with a pretty null veiw into the ISO. Now; Eh.. kinda scum-Nullish I feel that they havn't posted enough to warrent a scummy read but They are pushing someone I now town read and It feels pretty.. weak? I dunno.. This ones got me on the fence a little I feel that they might be scum or not.. this one is hard.. Gut plays a large part here but I also don't like how there only town read is me (because I feel by now I'm obvious as a flare) Which seems kinda off to me. and even then they never said I was town but just implied they thought that. Its really award. I also don't buy there scum slip argument :/ oh yeah and post more

You really need to reconsider that xyzzy read. Don't fall into the "I post giant walls, and so do they, so we must be the same alignment" trap.

Also, what about the push on xyzzy feels weak? There are two perfectly good examples of scummy behavior and you may not have noticed but xyzzy has conveniently gone absent and so can't be extensively questioned about their walls of review. I wouldn't stick your neck out so far to protect them, or we may have to come back and reconsider your status once they flip scum.

i don't think bs is scum lol

i'm asking you why bs/xyz is impossible for you.

@naomi I finished reading your wall of text. You made a pretty good case for X being scum. I had them as null before but now they've dropped to a scum lean.

My XYYZY read is from my 510 analysis I do think its funny that me and blackstar got two separate reads from the same bit of text and I wonder if its because of how I formatted it (as I was making it in order of posts that came up) much like how you guys don't think I'm scum because of posts like 510 going into her thoughts 510 makes a lot of sense to me. Like I can see the connections to things she does and track her POV pretty stably it seems that nearly everything she said that can be tracked back to either her mentality being simalier to my own (aka she doesn't fully have a read and is unsure about herself) or its something else she said along the way. Like the things I like just seem too intricately linked to be Scum motivated.

[Naomi-Tan]

Sorry I was busy all day after school and I was just far to tired to get on.
I just finished catching up and reading the last 5 pages.

First, I don't really like Naomi's 518 reads for the same reason I didn't like Light's reads. Though Naomi has been doing a lot more than light so I don't feel it being too scummy or really that much at all, just bad.

The thing with Ved and Black just looked silly. For 1 that post was pretty clean I'm not sure how Black managed to misinterpret that, but really I don't think you can call that a lie, it's more just a clear indication that Black has not been following what you have been arguing at all (Talking about Ved). At least that argument looks way to bad to be a planned scum interaction so I can't see a Black x Ved scum team at all in the slightest.

My reaction to creatures 575: -_-
Like I know I don't have insane activity in most of my games, but like that ISO is small so you could have at least bothered to look and see that I did push my scum reads.

YOU

were even one of them early on and I pushed you. But like whatever it doesn't matter.

you said you didn't like my reads in 518 but you didn't say why. Could you please define what you didn't like about it? I also find it strange you didn't comment on 510.

[Naomi-Tan]

Its posts like that one that make me thing XYZZY is town, anyway Brace yourselves Naomi is responding shortly

[Naomi-Tan]

19: even though it's a fairly obvious point, I doubt scum would directly acknowledge an idea like this that can only benefit the town. if any member of the town hadn't already come to this conclusion and Killthestory is scum, then this post is Killthestory saying "hey, by the way, here's a thing I might do that you should pay attention to," and that seems unlikely.

But isn't this WIFOM? With scum having day talk and everything they could just arrange not to do slips and have him announce it? It seems to me that this is NAI as we can't tell where he would be based on it.

32-34: because the Jordarrian wagon came out of nowhere, once any of those 4 people are dead, it'll be a little bit more feasible to infer information about possible connections between them. I feel like most likely at most 1 person on that wagon is scum, so if Jordarrian dies, looking at how those 3 people all interacted with him will be a decent source of information.

I think it would be too early in the game to be viable information even if 1 of 3 is scum thats still a 33% failure rate, if we include the initiator thats 25% .. Wouldn't it do more harm and good? and doesn't it seem like these are RVS votes? so would be NAI?

@67; I feel that this would depend largely on how you read him. If he is telling the truth then thats awesome, if not then that would be a bad post. So.. I agree with your stance on this, but am hopeful that he will confirm it in the future. If he does admit to lying then I guess we'll just react then.

122: I don't think trying to work out that info is unusual, but I think the manner in which Transcend responds to that question could provide info.

I don't think he reads these long wall posts. you may wish to give this one its own post to get his attention. But okay Lets see where this one goes.

135: correcting other players' typos feels like an attempt to subtly make someone look like less of an important contributor to the game without actually meaningfully saying anything about their arguments.

But isn't scrutinising such a small post also undermining them and also making them look worse by doing so? Also you sure TC (hey I found an abbreviation I like for him at last!) was trying to undermine me?

not a bad vote light

can you guess why i fos creature >:)

142: the "can you guess why" part is the part I like.

I still don't get it... can you explain deeper I'm still trying to work this bit out (I also don't know why he fos'd creature but neither did I care to ask)

161: just so it's clear, my longer posts generally involve a lot of ISO-checking.

Yup... lots and lots of isoing.. currently I have this message I'm making open, Your message, my response to your message and your response to my response and on occasion I'm opening the source post too (if I don't remember it or its not quoted in my post) I would also like to just say here as I missed it at the time 161 was meant to be in the townie section but was miss placed (yeah jumping up and down a post in a small window wasn't the greatest method

184: "they're annoying" isn't a valid reason to lynch someone (it's entirely possible for a town player to be annoying or for a scum player to be the most charming person in the game), and agreeing with that statement without adding anything to it at all doesn't feel good to me.

Yeah I get this, I'm starting to think that I'm going to get shot tonight because scum doesn't want to deal with my walls and walls of text and Town read by most if not all players.

5: as I said, it's probably completely irrelevant, but it has the potential to feel noteworthy later on.
6: even though this is a non-serious post, I feel like in general town is a little more likely to make that kind of post, even if it's 100% a joke.

5,6 I still dislike how you treated RVS stuff as Alignment Indicative. I don't think we will agree here. So.. Agreeing to Disagree.

20: I don't feel like finding post 19 and post 20 both slightly town-leaning contradictory, but I see where you're coming from.

And on slightly town leaning.. I think I can also see where your coming from scum had no reason to take that risk as either position. with fake slips just being announced faking a slip there is dumb and not scum thing to do.. Okay now we both see where we came from XD

24: I think it's reasonable to expect people to say something about whatever's going on in the game if possible. as I said, I think on its own it's a null tell, but if someone has a lot of posts where they're just saying things without really contributing to any ongoing conversation, that's not great.

Yeah but it appears to me that there was nothing left TO say, it was pretty much done with.. and its still page 1 of course which is always RVS valid

29: I'm not sure I fully understand what you're getting at here.

At the time I was annoyed as you said this was townie and when the wagon formed it was scummy. however that is not what you said, you just said it was interesting so this was a misinterpretation by myself. still curious how this wasn't included in your 30/31/32 post If you don't mind me switching the focus of my original statement.

86: this is something that I noted around that point during this re-read, although I guess pointing it out at post 86 wasn't super clear.

So this was a conclusion you made at the end? Okay.. Well yeah thats poorly filed. but not really too scummy I guess? I dunno doesn't seem to match up. (not with 86 its self but the comment as a whole) that was my major issue with it and why I quoted 123/124 and 277 as I wanted to explain that I didn't see you doing the thing you said you was doing.

277: this was in response to BlackStar's comment in 276 about Transcend frequently wagon hopping. the fact that Killthestory suggested that Transcend get on a wagon and then he immediately did just seems interesting to me.

yeah the quote was throwing me here as The statement didn't include the vote by TC so I got all confused and it was just another part of my 86 thing

88: I'm not sure what you mean by this. as far as I can tell, Transcend is implying that you're a gimmick account here.

In 88 they are making a statement that they dislike gimmick accounts, they called me a gimmick account before So I could see how you'd link this up in your mind, but in 88 partially they are just making a general statement of there dislike of gimmick accounts. kinda like me announcing I dislike Joker as a role.

197: I don't understand what you mean by this.

This one is a bit complex So I'll explain using bullet points.. in fact so confusing that I got a key element wrong and now will have to revise this from the top taking key details, im going to paraphase for swiftness.
• Creature says IO not voting is NAI 180
• IO miss interrupts Creatures 180 post as him telling her that one of the reasons she is scum is because she hasn't voted (188 Paragraph one)
• Creature Corrects IO. 197
This is the true chain of events. How I interrupted it was entirely differently, and now im really embarrassed so.. yeah i'm just walking away from this..

I mostly like Naomi-Tan's reads list in post 518; I think the fact that she goes into some detail for each person about how her reads have evolved is a good thing. that said, pointing out that you dislike someone's attitude and that it doesn't seem very nice while voting for that person kind of feels like you're just tacking on another reason to vote them that isn't actually relevant to their alignment. you also seem to imply that a lot of your reads are close to null, which isn't necessarily great.

Your right. it isn't Relevant to there alignment but It was the deciding factor on what side I put my vote after reading. See I had two choices, both equally scummy but only one of them I felt was being actively toxic and if I had the choice between, lurky predator scummy or abrasive rude scummy, I'm going to take the latter.. Its a case of the deciding push on my two highest scum reads.

Topics Dropped because i'm happy with the explanation and we can now eliminate them from future topics; 27/28, 50, 67, 76, 152, 161, 5,/6, 19/20, 29, 61, 277, 123/124, 197?

PEDIT; @IO - All right then. Guess that makes sense sorry for the confusion, Next time I'll place them in a more ... town to scummy way (thinking of colour coding it on a gradient )

PEDIT on thinking about it - I find it rather strange that you would make this mistake as I make a conclusion at the end of each persons read that shows my current thoughts on there town to scum position its strange to me that you would be able to after reading me calling multiple people scum that you would then read me as having no scum.. Now I'm suspicious.

[Naomi-Tan]

I think the walls made people freak out and flee XD

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm here but I kinda spoke about everything already with these mega posts so.. yah

[Naomi-Tan]

I just dislike them for ignoring most of the thread and only making minor comments when we are already running at a slower pace.

[Naomi-Tan]

Vedith?

[Naomi-Tan]

Didn't we just cover all your picks though?

[Naomi-Tan]

Not as far as i'm aware I made a huge wall or two about them. but at the end I'm getting town vibes there thoughts are just too multi-layered to by scum orientated imo.

[Naomi-Tan]

Seraphim ignored this thread.

Noted

Thats pretty much how i'm reading it, though this may change if they do a larger scale update in the next few days.

Weird thought; what is all the most active players are town? and the scum are just letting us fight each other?

[Naomi-Tan]

Holy cow I was away for a few hours and the game came off life support. one moment while I read up. (and follow up post)

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay... tired doing a multi-part quote catchup but I'm just too sleepy and can't think properly I'm going to leave my quote chain open in the other tab and come back to it after a small sleep. Sorry for building up to a response that never came. Will put something out for IO though. I think XYZZY's thoughts changed based on our mutual wall of texts, where she came to the understanding that he may not be that bad based on observations I had made. It follows that post wall she was more neutral leaning than pre-wall.

[Naomi-Tan]

Guys we have many days left, please don't hammer yet. thanks. anyway nice vig dude. Sleep was productive and I Will reattempt to do still but you've added a ton of pages XD

[Naomi-Tan]

Its Cool I'm just digging into light, next post will largely be IOA But Thats just me.

[Naomi-Tan]

I guess so? I just Caps what I feel is a thing I wanna Caps.. Don't really think about it TBH

So here is some RAW data.

Joke Vote XYZZY
141 Creature Vote (no reason given)
296 Defended XYZZY
444 - 445 This here gives IO a clear IMO.
Voted Vedith

1x Scum Naomi
2x Scum Joradarrian
6x Scum Vedith
4x Scum Creature
3x Scum IO
2x Blackstar being scummy

3x Town Naomi
3x Town KTS
3x Town Towncred
2x Town XYZZY
1x Town IO
1x Town Pistachi0n
1x Town Blackstar

1x Jordarrian Neutral
1x Blackstar Natural

UNVOTE: What I take from this is; Vedith and Creature Are likely town. Kts possible scum, with him defeating him multiple times when his content has been lacking at best and Pistach0n is now my top scum read based on them putting them into a town pile early on (when there was no reason to) VOTE: Pistachi0n I wanna see if Pistachi0n's reads reflect what i'm seeing from Light here next.

[Naomi-Tan]

Lights activity by frequency

[Naomi-Tan]

yes your towncred because I keep miss reading your name.

[Naomi-Tan]

before it ever even started I was confident that joining Dunnstral's first modded game was the first choice and now I'm even more sure

so much has happened in the like couple days I've been away (I spent a lot of time sleeping...) and I'll need time to really process it all, but while I'm pretty sure it's possible it's possible for BlackStar to be scum (the normal rules allow for one non-normal role; they don't say anything about how non-normal that role can be) I don't really see it as likely.

Naomi-Tan, do you not think it's possible light_ganski was bussing one of Vedith or Creature?

I'm not seeing why the Seraphim wagon is happening at all. maybe that'll become clearer to me when I get the chance to reread the last several pages at a time that isn't 4 am.

I did unvote for just that reason From the flip I'm confirming both Creature and V

[Naomi-Tan]

Haha KTS doesn't know Light is scum yet (flipped from day vig.) this is pretty funny. XD

[Naomi-Tan]

Sorry for my lack of consistency over the last few days. my insomnia has decided to play up so im awake and asleep in small bursts and always sleepy and not thinking right. It doesn't lend its self to reading deep into things. I just hope it stabilises soon, this sleep debt will resolve eventually and I can perk up again. KTS's post stream here was entertaining XD but can't really cross refrence it too easily without post marks or quotes.

[Naomi-Tan]

I can do this though; Hey KTS with light being scum does this revise any of your reads? like V and Creature?

[Naomi-Tan]

Sigh.. If XYYZY is scum I'm going to be really disappointed in myself.. After our long talk i've convinced myself that they must be town but others disagree and lights responses back up a scum!XYZ. I feel that scum had lead me a lot over the course of the game and fooled me pretty well.. unfortunately I've been no help to the game other than stimulating it at times of low activity such as right now. however unlike those times I don't really feel that I should make a comment right now. just taking the time to self reflect on my mistakes such as being controlled by peer pressure to skew my vote off of creature earlier in the game. heh.. Sorry guys. just finished the beginners guide so.. I'm kinda off and don't help that im extremely sleepy from my body deciding to fuck around.

[Naomi-Tan]

I guess I could but I don't believe in the train... but neither do I trust myself.. I've had pretty bad judgements..

[Naomi-Tan]

Imo just townbloc {Creature, Naomi, Transcend, BlackStar, Io} and should be lock town win.

Your lock group has scum in it, so nope. Take out BlackStar and put in anyone but Seraphim and good to go.

VOTE: Blitzkrieg Okay guys short and simple vote here; I'm really tired of him trying to push the guy who day vigged scum. Light always had blackstar null to scum and that isn't something you do to your scum buddy please see his iso (just search for black there are like 7 mentions not one being above null though at one stage he weakly defends it but qualifies it for him being scum still (saying that he can see a weak case) The fact that Light was shading black and that black day vigged scum and finally mafia have day talk so it would be EXTREMELY unlikely that scum would also have day Vig I think that Blitz is unreasonable. This Compounds with the fact that light had a town read on his slot (in his first read missing from his second) It seems EXTREMELY suspect there actions. also the person Blitz Replaced threw shade out in nearly every post and focused myself and blackstar.

[Naomi-Tan]

Who pushes a person who literally just killed scum >_< This is scummy as heck!

[Naomi-Tan]

you mistake the words stupid and scummy.

I'm not, beacuse There is no Town! Aligned perspective to lynch blackstar after he was about to shoot scum

On Vediths point I think its pretty obvs that in this game with day talk and stuff It is EXTREMELY unlikely that they would give scum a day vig too and even if you did suspect a scum day vig you'd have much better targets to choose before hand before pushing the guy who is most obvious town confirmed

Stupidity does not cover this anti-town thought plan and backed up by his predecessor Im convinced he is scum.

[Naomi-Tan]

you mistake the words stupid and scummy.

I'm not, beacuse There is no Town! Aligned perspective to lynch blackstar after he was about to shoot scum

On Vediths point I think its pretty obvs that in this game with day talk and stuff It is EXTREMELY unlikely that they would give scum a day vig too and even if you did suspect a scum day vig you'd have much better targets to choose before hand before pushing the guy who is most obvious town confirmed

Stupidity does not cover this anti-town thought plan and backed up by his predecessor Im convinced he is scum.

anti-town =/= scum

town are able to act anti-town all the time.

also there wasn't much to get from pistachi0n's iso not sure why you thought he was scummy.

Well that kinda why, he only really contributed to killing others and his reads nearly matchup with Lights bar a few acceptations.

[Naomi-Tan]

Does Titus usually throws shade at who's logically conftown?

Your premise implies BlackStar is. They are not.

The reason why the addendum was made was to stop anything that gives scum 2kpn per night.

URGH >_<

[Naomi-Tan]

Sorry that was rather poor analysis what I should say is; I have no idea where someone would get this read from and this thought pattern and the mere conspect of it is painful as is there pressure. then again my counter train is proverbially not greatest either.

[Naomi-Tan]

titus if you don't stop playing the bussing card to explain why the heavy push then i'm going to lynch you regardless of your alignment.

thank god

[Naomi-Tan]

I still think they are town... which is why im not going L-1.. Jeez.. Can everyone on the XYZZY train write when they think there scum in a block to try and convince me ? I'd like to know full reasoning..

[Naomi-Tan]

I town read them because I can follow there thought pattern and don't really understand why XYZZY's train is a good one.

[Naomi-Tan]

The top half of 510 and the follow up big post sorted out a bunch of my original issues.

[Naomi-Tan]

I town read them because I can follow there thought pattern and don't really understand why XYZZY's train is a good one.

I just went back and started reading 510 (I did make it a LITTLE further) and I can't imagine that that is true, because 510 is about six posts of xyzzy's that you understand and then a ton you either don't understand or straight-up disagree with. You want to point me to where you starting following their thought pattern?

like by the end of 510 I felt that they was town enough to not have them as my biggest scum read, then after the next post I was happy :3

[Naomi-Tan]

If Forced I'd rather kill Seraphim :/ because out of the two I find them more likely to be scum.. if you want my opinion..

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi, who is scum? Some reasons would be great too.

Hmm out of the current player list..

1. xyzzy
2. Transcend
3. massive
4. Seraphim

Jordarrian

5. Killthestory
6. BlackStar
7. Creature
8. Skelda
9. Vedith
10. Blitzkrieg

pistachi0n

11. Io
12. Naomi-Tan

I think Blitzkrieg is scum for lights interactions and there votes lining up before replacement.
The other slot is a mystery to me.. but I think its one of the following set; Skelda, Seraphim, or massive

[Naomi-Tan]

And why; Skelda has been kinda active lurking and I'm not liking massives pushes. as for yourself... well.. others seem to think your scum, so.. I guess they've seen something I havn't so.. I guess that would be a case of; if the other two are town. if that makes sense.

[Naomi-Tan]

Well.. that happened.. lets see if my thoughts was right..

[Naomi-Tan]

Told you guys XYZZY was town.. Anyway Reviewing the game with the flip data.

[Naomi-Tan]

Also, I really doubt massive is a mafia NK.

Im going to put this quote away for much later (not a post today but MUCH later)

[Naomi-Tan]

Sigh.. im not really getting anything from analyizing Massive.

[Naomi-Tan]

hey creature what happened to me being scum?

Did your team tell you to push someone else?

Go on...? expand please, how you know he has a team?

[Naomi-Tan]

hey creature what happened to me being scum?

Did your team tell you to push someone else?

Go on...? expand please, how you know he has a team?

shh just wait Naomi

Seems reasonable I could do with a rest anyway. Im kinda sleepy... not best mindset for scum hunting. I will give ya sometime here.

[Naomi-Tan]

Also, I really doubt massive is a mafia NK.

Im going to put this quote away for much later (not a post today but MUCH later)

You can take note of this now.

Mafia didn't kill massive.

And how do you know this..?

[Naomi-Tan]

So... KTS your turn I'm going to watch this play out as its going to be an interesting conversation.

[Naomi-Tan]

Massive was a wolf kill. No way there's vig and dayvig.

whats a wolf kill?

[Naomi-Tan]

well.. Im going to lurk till tomorrow.. Im too sleepy to post what I want to and wish to review it tomorrow.

[Naomi-Tan]

Massive is a really weird scum kill. Like he was the most vocal early on in killing Xyzzy and that was a mislynch.
However 2 vigilantes seams a bit to swingy to me.
It's pretty likely scum.

VOTE: Kill

IO you do know that creature is doing two vig setup right?

[Naomi-Tan]

Massive is a really weird scum kill. Like he was the most vocal early on in killing Xyzzy and that was a mislynch.
However 2 vigilantes seams a bit to swingy to me.
It's pretty likely scum.

VOTE: Kill

IO you do know that creature is doing two vig setup right?

[Naomi-Tan]

Hey Guys my Router died so.. I'm going V/LA until tuesday (when the guy will have looked at it. Going to update you guys then. If I can't get it fixed before 6day before end I'll replace out. But I'm on limited data and I'm using it for other stuff. So.. This'll be my last message for a while

MOD: V/LA Till Tuesday the 13th Of September

[Naomi-Tan]

Just paranoid that Naomi didn't write romances on Mini 1820.

PC is nearly back up just got a few things to iron out be 100% by tomorrow (need a new lan cable)

[Naomi-Tan]

Just paranoid that Naomi didn't write romances on Mini 1820.

Okay I'm really keen on a Vedith lynch for pushing me while knowing I was down with pc issues. But There is lots of time and now I'm back i'll get the activity rolling (Once I get a network cable replaced anyway, for now phone surfing)

[Naomi-Tan]

Nay

He didn't vote you

He just said that you're "fake"

Elaboration on that would be nice

But he's not attempting to run you up in votes while you are V/LA.

I think its weird to think he would see me as fake. then again Its also strange i'm alive I thought i'd been the night kill tbh.

[Naomi-Tan]

Whats PoE?

[Naomi-Tan]

Òkay as you guys know my router blew up. what you don't know is my network card was the cause of it. I've just finished installing a new network card so now im back and full powered. So now my pc issues have stopped I'm getting right back into the flow of the game. Starting by going back to an earlier comment or chain of comments in this case. Way back at the start of the day we have this post here;

hey creature what happened to me being scum?

Did your team tell you to push someone else?

Go on...? expand please, how you know he has a team?

shh just wait Naomi

This here is one of two things; either a role fish, or a someone saying they have information. This leads me to believe that either one of creature or KTS is scum. At the time I backed off the arguement as I wanted it to play out naturally and see where it would lead though I miss informed everyone at the time as i wished there reactions to be true without outside influence that may scare scum. I feel I failed as my little comment got KTS to back down and he hasn't pushed since. This however doesn't stop my hunt. Lets revisit another thing.

hey creature what happened to me being scum?

Did your team tell you to push someone else?

Go on...? expand please, how you know he has a team?

shh just wait Naomi

Also, I really doubt massive is a mafia NK.

Im going to put this quote away for much later (not a post today but MUCH later)

It is now MUCH Later and I will expand what I meant at the time. Everynight Mafia gets a kill. This kill is normally choosen based on how it benefits scum.

Now looking at day 1 how would a massive kill benefit scum? only pro I see of it would be that they wouldn't get doc'd but if that was the case they could of targeted IO or one of the other pro-townie players who wasn't sticking out to be doced and was contributing. So.. Why massive?

Secondly I looked at massvies views. Maybe he said something that was too close for comfort maybe this post here;

hey creature what happened to me being scum?

Did your team tell you to push someone else?

Go on...? expand please, how you know he has a team?

shh just wait Naomi

Also, I really doubt massive is a mafia NK.

Im going to put this quote away for much later (not a post today but MUCH later)

You've done pretty much nothing

I gave you xyzzy, what more do you want from day one? Jeez.

Not gonna vote but I think you know where it goes.

IO is town, and Blitzkrieg being Titus explains a lot, but not enough for me to have any idea which way she swings. I like the connection between light and Jordarrian though.

To my knowledge he was the only one who suggested a link between jordarrian and light. This is a possible answer but wasn't the one I settled on in the end.

My final check was testing who read massive and how they read them. most people; my self included, had him down as a null however, there was one person who didn't Creature. a person who was suspected multiple times and read as a weaker town member at that stage who just miss lynched. XYZZY for a pretty bad reason saying themselves that they thought they was town. At the time they had them down in a list of people he wished wouldn't reach the end game.

Now.. Here comes the tricky part; What is KTS? Or what information does he have? At that stage Creature Soft claimed Vig and given his read matches the kill and the fact that scum motivation wise. the only thing that could be a factor is massive saying light and jorridy are linked. I feel the following situation is more likely

• Creature chooses to Vig Massive as they suspect them
• KTS // Mafia Rolecops Creature to work out if he is worth killing (as if he had no PR they could leave him up as a person to read lylo to lead to a miss lynch or otherwise outplay but confirming no PR helped)
• Seeing as most people have a townish veiw of KTS they get him to do the pressure (or he does it of his own free will) starting to ask leading questions to try and lay the foundations for a miss lynch
• When I question it they back off thinking that maybe I too have some information
• KTS Switches his thoughts on the matter and acts like he was just suspicious of the new read.

This leads me to the following conclusion; I was the target of the night kill but was saved (by a doc or some other protective role) This makes sense as I have been killed by mafia in pretty much all my town games of late Night 1 and everyone was town reading me at the time. The rolecop got information on creature and scum decided to attempt his miss lynch to prevent another vig shot and creature shot massive.

VOTE: KTS

Did you guys miss me XD

[Naomi-Tan]

hey creature what happened to me being scum?

Did your team tell you to push someone else?

Go on...? expand please, how you know he has a team?

shh just wait Naomi

Also, I really doubt massive is a mafia NK.

Im going to put this quote away for much later (not a post today but MUCH later)

You've done pretty much nothing

I gave you xyzzy, what more do you want from day one? Jeez.

Not gonna vote but I think you know where it goes.

IO is town, and Blitzkrieg being Titus explains a lot, but not enough for me to have any idea which way she swings. I like the connection between light and Jordarrian though.

just read her attack on me.

she doesn't even bother to ask me questions, just assume I'm scum.

If you would like a question I can put one to you; What was your objective in that interaction from a town perspective?

[Naomi-Tan]

I wonder when this quote trail will stop...

[Naomi-Tan]

Why would a roleblocker out? Thought we dismissed that there's no vig.

You guys dismissed it. I was out of connection at the time. I'm personally suspecting a JOAT with a vig on it. but it could also be a normal vig or one shot night vig.. there are a few possibilities.

[Naomi-Tan]

Can we like start lynching/choosing a dayvig shot? We're just going back and forth here.

Creature; we have 10 days remaining and this discussion is likely to be tense, please don't try to stop discussion with comments like these. Unless you wanna just start lynching blind these kinds of talks help town greatly.

[Naomi-Tan]

pressure

Pressure? how is acting like you have information good pressure? so you was VT acting like you had a role -_- Okay then; why did you want to pressure them?

[Naomi-Tan]

This silence and waiting is irritating me..

[Naomi-Tan]

I really would like more input from town about my theory.. other than "I thought this was over" just for clarity incase this fizzles down (so its easier to find scum after this event)

[Naomi-Tan]

What's the case against Naomi? I know you said that you think they're fake, but could you elaborate?

Everything I read of them just looks too over thought.
Looks to be trying too hard to give a good impression rather than solve the game and just looks fake.

I have a problem with my mindset in general. As both scum and town I fear getting lynched and sometimes that drives me to inaction.

. Because of this I also tend to do lots of LAMIST moves beacuse Im always worried people will want me gone as I'm not very good. Scum tend to use this to there advantage sometimes.

The reason I'm opening with this is my mind set follows a more scum meta when, for me, its really NAI as I just havn't managed to get past the idea that by lynched and I don't want to die.. and thats a problem but.. as I can't really do anything about it

[Naomi-Tan]

But ignoring those points and doing the one that doesn't cover; I tend to only over think my bigger posts. while most of my smaller ones are just me reacting and giving my first thoughts.

PEdit; Not really.. Your saying "Hey you know that thing that scum can misslynch you for and will get town suspicious of you more and more. you shouldn't tell people about that because its scummy and its a good idea to miss lead town by not commenting so scum can more easily lead them" If you do stuff thats normally scummy as town you should make sure people are aware of it, because you will get in trouble for it. you can call it 'fake' but You don't fake interactions like the ones I've had. my creature suspicion that was talked down. my defending of XYZZY after hard talks about there play for a while and coming to a mutual understanding and the little things. I don't know why you think I'm scummy and your entire case seems to be based on; There trying hard

[Naomi-Tan]

And you only decided to point this out in this one game? Have you actually posted this else where? I mean, it's a standard trait for you to look scummy so you should be saying this all the time, right?

No, I am saying you are trying hard to look town instead of trying hard to solve the game and fake post. And you answer it with that you do stuff that look scummy
How on earth is your augment that you look scummy in par to what I am saying?

Sort of.. Before 120 we had this game here; http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p6382331
But it was something I was trying out at the time and I think i've refined it enough that most accept it now.

[Naomi-Tan]

The game that made me decide to go forward with it properly was http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5&start=25
Where at the bottom of page 2 over to page 3 we have an interaction between me and another player where we just kinda rift and I reflected upon it and decided it was the best course of action going forward.

[Naomi-Tan]

And your KTS vote is stupid, just to add.
Talk to me about Trans. You've not mentioned him too much as of late... Once I did notice was your response to 1265
Now tell me, if you look scummy and do scummy things, why did you expect to be the night kill?

I suspected I'd be the NK because everyone had me down as a town read and I was publicly talking and generating activity. finally my posts had those walls that scum would rather not have to read tbh. so yeah..

[Naomi-Tan]

went back to look. I feel that his content has been lacking of late as I had to look back to remember them and I find his light reads rather interesting (thanks massive if your reading) I still like there stuff but there is definitely room for more input I think XYZZY's flip puts them in kinda a bad place and it might be an easy miss-lynch This is compounded by the noticeable lack of improved activity that i'd suspect of scum following a miss lynch.

[Naomi-Tan]

This post is a fuck ton of quotes for Vedith (because I have lots of free time and I was bored. There is no additional content and it should be skipped by town. Linking to past this post; 1319

Holy shit I found another me

no lol Naomi is a G and p decent.

The fuck are you going on about?

Don't you love to quickhammer in ms?

Kinda wanna lynch Naomi they're annoying

ಠ_ಠ

you don't know how i play

@transcend, Dude, Naomi is a g wtf

Nah Naomi is p town.

they're prob town i agree, but their posting style annoys me. wouldn't mind a vig on them lol.

nah Naomi is cool

BS'd list of reads so far

{KTS}
{Naomi}
{Jord, BlackStar}
{massive, pistachi0n, Skelda}
{Io}
{Vedith, light, Creature}
{xyzzy}

uh

naomi is my second best tr rn lol

Yh you guys all look town from this

There are scum in jordarrian vedith + creature. Maybe blackstar too

1. xyzzy

2. Transcend

3. light_ganski
4. massive

5. Jordarrian
6. Killthestory
7. BlackStar
8. Creature

9. Skelda
10. Vedith
11. pistachi0n
12. Io

13. Naomi-Tan

Did this thread breed while I was asleep or something

ATM readslist:

Town - KTS, Naomi, Transcend, Xyzzy,

maybe

Io, Pistachi0n
Scum - Creature, vedith
Dunno - jordarrian, blackstar

i think naomi and psiysthacoion are the only obvtowners rn . . . //

@creature, lol thats actually terrible.

light_ganski
massive
Vedith
pistachi0n

Would easily wagon any of these

I can understand why you said light and Vedith, but not the other two. Can you explain your reads?

massive is null.

I didn't decide on pistachi0n yet.

Everybody else has done something that I find town.

here's some notes from the first 4 pages. not sure whether I'll get through all of these tonight, or if I'll have to wait until tomorrow for some of them, but here's the first chunk anyway.

5 (Creature): an RVS OMGUS. probably irrelevant but I'm noting it just in case it feels relevant later.
6 (Killthestory): I get a slight town read from this post; I feel like these sorts of things involving making really broad, unlikely statements like this immediately come from town.
19 (Killthestory): I don't think this post would come from scum.
20 (BlackStar): these kinds of things where someone doesn't notice some aspect of the setup mentioned in the rules that is only directly relevant to scum generally feels town.
24 (Transcend): I'm generally not a huge fan of it when someone RVS votes when there's already discussion going, but I think overall it's a null tell on its own. if it's combined with very little other content later on, though, that's bad.
28 (Jordarrian): this is a good response to Creature's post 27.
29 (Killthestory): I'm okay with this post.
32-34: once any of Transcend, BlackStar, Creature or Jordarrian are dead, these 3 posts will be worth thinking about in more detail.
36 (Killthestory): I didn't read Jordarrian's response as defensive, and it's weird that you did.
48 (Naomi-Tan): Naomi-Tan, you imply that you make posts like this in a lot of games; would you mind linking to some examples from other games that you've played (both as town and scum)?
50 (Naomi-Tan): this post feels like it comes from town.
55 (Naomi-Tan): I definitely feel the same way as you describe in the first paragraph here a lot; I usually have much stronger town reads than scum reads.
56 (light_ganski): again, same. basically I tend to start questioning myself really hard starting around day 2
57 (Creature): I don't really like this post very much; Naomi-Tan's post wasn't as bad as Creature seems to imply no matter what you thought of it imo
60 (Vedith): remember what I said earlier about RVS votes when discussion has already started? same thing.
61 (light_ganski): I feel like trying to derail the conversation by making something mundane like acknowledging the fact that scum have daytalk is something scum could plausibly do.
62 (Vedith): nope.
65 (Vedith): not a fan of this.
67 (Vedith): another post I dislike from Vedith!
76 (Killthestory): I have a bad habit of interpreting these sorts of posts as scummy even though they're usually not.
81 (Io): in general I feel like trying to figure out the structure of the game at this point in time is really fruitless beyond just broad statements like "town's probably strong", so trying to figure out what's common doesn't seem like a good plan. also, the P-edit at the bottom is good.
86 (Transcend): I feel like all of Transcend's posts that I've commented on were things where I was like "that's a bit scummy" but I'd not really paid attention to the fact that all of them come from the same person. this is bad.
88 (Transcend): also in what sense does Naomi-Tan seem like a gimmick account? what gimmick does she have?
96 (BlackStar): this is an okay post.

overall I'm most likely to switch my vote over to Transcend at this point, but I'll re-read and comment in detail on the remaining 12 pages before I do anything.

Page 13 with the xyzzy "caught for the wrong reasons" post.

VOTE: xyzzy

Creature wagon looks suspect as heck since I see it right above me. It's like the list of players half-paying-attention. And Naomi. Come on Naomi.

Anyways bs'd reads #2

{Naomi, KTS}
{BlackStar}
{Massive, Io, Creature, Skelda}
{Jord, Pista}
{Light}
{Vedith, xyzzy}

Some changes:

1. Naomi is now in the top tier, no way she flips wolf.
2. Creature and Io out of the scumpool and into the town pool. I've been pleased with their posts as of lately.
3. BlackStar moves up a tier because I think his case on me albeit wrong was genuine and town processed.
4. Jorda moves to the null tier because I decided that his reaction to the BW could easily be faked when I initially dismissed it as town.
5. Pretty sure xyzzy was the only person I've had in the bottom tier, but I've now moved Vedith there. His vote compared to his reads looks inconsistent and he's never justified himself.
6. Massive's analysis of xyzzy was really good and something I agreed with. He didn't go too far in depth but he moves into the more townier than not tier.
7. Skelda's vote on KTS doesn't look like a wolf vote so I also put him in the same tier as massive.
8. I have 3 people in the scum tiers now as opposed to 5. Obviously I expect to be wrong on at least one, but I'd like to think I have at least one wolf in the bottom 3 tiers to focus on. Leaning heavily towards Vedith or xyzzy rope.

510 is beyond scum capacity.

What do you think about KTS?

In my next reads list I'm probably gonna bump him down a tier. In the first 10 or so pages he was obv town but has since been less active. I still think he's town but Naomi is probably going to be the only one in the top tier at this point.

icic

510 among the rest of Naomi's posts are beyond scum capacity for me lol.

icic

510 among the rest of Naomi's posts are beyond scum capacity for me lol.

I agree

my apologies for going a couple days without saying anything; I've been busier than usual the last couple days with real life things (yesterday my girlfriend and I spent what felt like 2 hours deliberating over whether to buy a plush Pokeball or a plush Shadow the Hedgehog at a Toys'R'Us, so needless to say, the things I've been busy with have been Very Important Business)

I have a very long response to Naomi-Tan's post 510 below, and I have it in its own section, with lots of hyphens.

the whole Vedith/BlackStar thing is absurd and is making both of them look scummy. that said, it's making Vedith look more scummy. I could see it being a bussing situation, though.

-------------------------

here's some responses to Naomi-Tan's post 510 (which contain responses to my post 381 and post 402):

19: even though it's a fairly obvious point, I doubt scum would directly acknowledge an idea like this that can only benefit the town. if any member of the town hadn't already come to this conclusion and Killthestory is scum, then this post is Killthestory saying "hey, by the way, here's a thing I might do that you should pay attention to," and that seems unlikely.
27/28: Creature's post 27 seems like it's trying to set Jordarrian up to make a mistake if he's scum; Jordarrian completely avoids taking the bait, which isn't an extremely strong town tell, but it's definitely not a scum tell.
32-34: because the Jordarrian wagon came out of nowhere, once any of those 4 people are dead, it'll be a little bit more feasible to infer information about possible connections between them. I feel like most likely at most 1 person on that wagon is scum, so if Jordarrian dies, looking at how those 3 people all interacted with him will be a decent source of information.
50: post 50 is definitely not a strong tell, but in general, I feel like pointing out information that is theoretically obvious but that could still be used to mislead the town is a slight town tell.
67: it just doesn't feel legitimate to me. I don't have a strong reason for believing this, but it doesn't feel like a pro-town action.
76: I tend to not be a huge fan of meaningless tautological statements, but despite my misgivings toward them, I've found that they're not really a scum tell.

122: I don't think trying to work out that info is unusual, but I think the manner in which Transcend responds to that question could provide info.
135: correcting other players' typos feels like an attempt to subtly make someone look like less of an important contributor to the game without actually meaningfully saying anything about their arguments.
142: the "can you guess why" part is the part I like.
152: that's fair. while sharing gut reads is an acceptable thing to do imo, not sharing them is just fine too, and I think your reasons for doing so are valid.
161: just so it's clear, my longer posts generally involve a lot of ISO-checking.
184: "they're annoying" isn't a valid reason to lynch someone (it's entirely possible for a town player to be annoying or for a scum player to be the most charming person in the game), and agreeing with that statement without adding anything to it at all doesn't feel good to me.

5: as I said, it's probably completely irrelevant, but it has the potential to feel noteworthy later on.
6: even though this is a non-serious post, I feel like in general town is a little more likely to make that kind of post, even if it's 100% a joke.
20: I don't feel like finding post 19 and post 20 both slightly town-leaning contradictory, but I see where you're coming from.
24: I think it's reasonable to expect people to say something about whatever's going on in the game if possible. as I said, I think on its own it's a null tell, but if someone has a lot of posts where they're just saying things without really contributing to any ongoing conversation, that's not great.
29: I'm not sure I fully understand what you're getting at here.
61: I screwed up my own grammar here--basically, what I meant was that someone could (incorrectly) decide that light_ganski's post 25 was scummy, and the fact that you pointed out that it isn't is fine. I had no issues with post 25.
86: this is something that I noted around that point during this re-read, although I guess pointing it out at post 86 wasn't super clear.

123/124: I don't feel like quoting three posts and simply saying "these don't sound genuine" without any additional commentary is a substantial reason to focus on someone as scummy; I still don't have a strong sense of

why

Transcend finds those posts non-genuine, just that he does.
277: this was in response to BlackStar's comment in 276 about Transcend frequently wagon hopping. the fact that Killthestory suggested that Transcend get on a wagon and then he immediately did just seems interesting to me.

88: I'm not sure what you mean by this. as far as I can tell, Transcend is implying that you're a gimmick account here.
158: I can't recall now why I marked this as a post I dislike, and since I'm thinking about it now, I don't really feel like it's bad anymore.
164: Creature's post 164 changed my mind about Io's post 81. I guess I should've made that more clear.
197: I don't understand what you mean by this.
199: yeah, as I said to Transcend, this is some bad reasoning based on a misinterpretation on my part of how neighborhoods work.

-----------------------
I figured out from context that TvT probably means "town vs town"! I'm so proud of myself for figuring that out even though it's not on the abbreviations page. anyway, I'm going to give some thought to the possibiity that that's what's going on with me and Transcend, because it wouldn't be the first time that me and another town player with very different playstyles mutually tunnel each other, so even though I find Transcend scummy, I don't want to ignore the possibility that that's because of my own cognitive biases.

I mostly like Naomi-Tan's reads list in post 518; I think the fact that she goes into some detail for each person about how her reads have evolved is a good thing. that said, pointing out that you dislike someone's attitude and that it doesn't seem very nice while voting for that person kind of feels like you're just tacking on another reason to vote them that isn't actually relevant to their alignment. you also seem to imply that a lot of your reads are close to null, which isn't necessarily great.

I really dislike the fact that Transcend is pretty much openly choosing not to engage with certain portions of the game. Vedith seems to kind of be doing the same with post 523.

I'm planning on doing more re-read posts, and I'll try to format them in such a way that it's easier to go through them. I tend to have an easier time processing information about the game if it's been a few days since I first read it, which is largely why I've used that format.

1. xyzzy
2. Transcend

3. light_ganski
4. massive
5. Seraphim
6. Killthestory

7. BlackStar
8. Creature

9. Skelda
10. Vedith

11. Blitzkrieg
12. Io
13. Naomi-Tan

Creature I think is Town.

BlackStar can be Town.

Naomi's posts I don't read, but they are long so she is Town by default. Solid logic, right?

I'm Town.

KTS is still scum.

Blitzkrieg is slightly scummy.

xxxyz or whatever I have no opinion on right now, but I don't want to lynch.

I dunno.

Also I think Vedith is probably town. (Congrats Naomi u won the game!)

I'll give explanations to this updated reads list later but for now I sleep.

{Naomi}
{BlackStar, Creature}
{KTS, massive, Vedith, Io}
{Skelda, Seraphim}
{light}
{Blitz, xyzzy}

I'm sorry my predecessor sucked. I will try my damnedest to be a forthright member of the town, full of insight and good arguments. I

I'm about 20 pages in and almost caught up but I'm fairly convinced we should lynch light. Pretty obvious target for obvscum and a good D1 lynch regardless.

Transcend is town for having a lot of the same reads as me (not identical, but close enough as I read that I can feel his thought process).

Naomi is town b/c her playstyle is basically impossible to fake as scum. I was reading the game and figured this was the case and took a gander at her scum games and was basically proven correct. Transcend was convinced early on that Naomi was a gimmick account and while her posting style (i.e. as a 16-year old girl) is fairly annoying, I actually think she is acting like that which means that as scum it will be nearly impossible to replicate. Which means that she's town in this game, otherwise her posting would look way more fake.

Creature is also town and I would put down money that there is at least one scum on the Creature wagon. Light jumps out as an obvious candidate for a few reasons.

Here we see a textbook example of bullshit scum post. This is not a real case. It's not even a real PBPA. It's just a summary of posting with the word scummy thrown in now and again for shits and giggles.

This post sucks. Site meta must really be going down the tubes when a post like this doesn't get bandwagoned straight out the gate.

This post is exactly the sort of distancing tactic I would expect from scum with daytalk. In fact, the whole Vedith/light interaction on pages 19-20 stinks of two scum players coordinating a distancing interaction, not just that single post. Highly recommended reading.

Obviously I think Vedith is scum too and I think a Vedith/light_ganski scumteam is incredibly likely simply based on their interactions above.

Unvote
Vote: light_ganski

P-EDIT: no I am not ignoring the thread, likely I was looking at my phone. I try not to post from my phone, but I do use my phone to keep abreast of game events while working to post from my computer. I will only post from my phone if I have the time/patience to type it out and it's a short response. A big grand catch up post is not going to get done on my phone.

Wished we could townblock, if we can agree with each other:

• xyzzy - I don't think light_ganski would join my wagon right after his partner (this only applies if light_ganski flips scum).
  
• Transcend
  
• Seraphim - His catch-up was solid.
  
• BlackStar
  
• Creature - Why not?
  
• Blitzkrieg - Genuinely town
  
• Naomi-Tan

xyzzy would need to be look at further though

Take out BlackStar and Seraphim and I am cool with that block.

Town: Naomi, transcend
Town lean: KTS, creature, blitzkrieg
Null: skelda, massive, io
Scum lean: seraphim, xyzzy
Scum: Light, Vedith

Hi I'm not dead

Reads:

{Naomi, Transcend}
{Xyzzy}
{KTS}
{Skelda, massive, Io}
{blackstar}
{Vedith, creature}

Still gotta ISO the new people

@Mod - I though I'd changed my vote to vedith in 495

Hi I'm not dead

Reads:

{Naomi, Transcend}
{Xyzzy}
{KTS}
{Skelda, massive, Io}
{blackstar}
{Vedith, creature}

Still gotta ISO the new people

@Mod - I though I'd changed my vote to vedith in 495

I just noticed how similar your read list is to mine except for the locations of creature and xyzzy. What do you think about the wagon on you?

I genuinely think that the 'Black' slip was real. I can easily see myself doing that kind of thing, and it's definitely not impossible. However, the slip itself felt genuine, and it wasn't just out of nowhere like I'd have done. It wasn't forced, and it just came out. I like Black as town just from that one comment.

Creature pointing out that it could be fake is okay, but I find that slightly scummy because he didn't bother to read the interaction. He simply planted the doubt, and then he continued on as he felt. It's scummy to me, and I don't really like it.

Xyzzy's post about daytalk was pretty good, but it was really only good enough to put her to null-town.

God, Jordarrian is so scummy. When are we lynching that slot? The way he simply reacts to pressure is so terrible. Makes me cringe.

Light coming in to reiterate what was already said it scummy.

I like those who wagonned Jordarrian, at least 2/3 are town. Probably Creature is scum out of the two if one is scum.

Naomi's post is p g wit it. They can be town.

Io coming in was nice. I liked that. They can be town.

Naomi and Transcend are both town, but they TvT this page. Bad bad bad .

Creature talking shit over there, fuck you nerd.

Xyzzy not putting Jordarrian obvscum to L-2 is weird.

Light's whole shtick of "hey null scum!!1!" is really scummy, and I think they're just being really fence sittey because they don't want to have strong opinions.

Transcend is being aggressive, but I heard he was aggressive as scum, too. I wouldn't know, so lol.

Bad entrance by Pistoahcion

Naomi still p g wit it

Light redeems himself with the vote on Creature. Does not much else.

Creature does some self meta bullshit, and it's really dumb. Also, his vote is actually terrible. V

Black has a terrible vote, and he offers little content. Bad Black.

Creature saying scummy shit that really pings me as scum. I wouldn't mind him having a noose around his neck myself.

Naomi still town along with Transcend.

Vedith is terrible. Holy fuck, "creature is not scum" yes he fucking is. Who the fuck do you think you're feeling?

Xyzzy calling Io's post bad is bad.

Io's post was good. It showed a general sign of "i don't give a fuck" and I love their pressure on Creature.

IO IS A BAD WAGON. I CANT BELIEVE TRANSCEND HOPPED ON THAT.

CREATURE IS NOT REDEEMING. HE IS SCUM. BAD SCUM AT THAT.

jesus Christ, Io being a good town.

Black is, I think, town. Not too confident about that read, but I am confident about my scumread on Vedith

Transcend redeemed himself, hopping onto Creature.

CREATURE BEING A MEANY HEAD TO NAOMI. NAOMIS ALREADY BAEBTTER HTNA YOU DONT ASK HER EXPERIENCE.

Naomi being g alongside Io. Like that.

Imo just townbloc {Creature, Naomi, Transcend, BlackStar, Io} and should be lock town win.

Imo just townbloc {Creature, Naomi, Transcend, BlackStar, Io} and should be lock town win.

Your lock group has scum in it, so nope. Take out BlackStar and put in anyone but Seraphim and good to go.

Remind me why sera has to claim again and why xyzzy is escaping rope.

Also io, Naomi as scum? Really? ...really....

Yeah I don't get making Sera claim if we aren't lynching her and we aren't lynching her because it doesn't make sense to.

I'm telling you guys right now that there are people in that giant Townblock that you guys have that are scum. I know the exact block varies from person to person, but someone is slipping through the cracks. And the more I thin about it, the more I think xxyz and Seraphim might both be Town, though xxxyz is definitely the better lynch between the two because of some interactions with Light.

What do you guys think of Vedith? A lot of people have him as Town and I'm unsure why.

Also Naomi is Town.

I feel like 2 of these guys here are scum Naomi, Skelda, Kill, and xyzzy.
As far as I'm concerned the lock town would be Black, Trans, Creature, and Verdith. Massive also looks really good, and Blitz looks townie too but just not someone I trust to lead lynches.

Well I know I'm Town and I think Naomi is Town too. Kill and xyzzy is technically possible, but no way is it that easy.

I don't think people arr as Town as you're making them out to be. I think there are scum being written off.

Fuck me I have no idea why he wanted all these quotes but my god it took a long time to fish out

Fixed the link

[Naomi-Tan]

In mildly related news; Seraphim is likely town. I read back over there posts as I was getting all these quotes and pretty much had to reread the whole thread to get them (which was fun and time consuming) and I'm not really seeing whats wrong with them. I know I had them down as scummy at the end of day 1 but looking back on it I can't think why which is strange.. its like everyone was saying it and I just kinda accepted it.. so This is my post being like; why are they scummy people who want that lynch?

[Naomi-Tan]

one last thing then. Yes I believe I was town read much more than blackstar as he was only town read mostly post vig while my town readness was throughout the entire day. Also
1318 link back above that huge wall so I can scroll up and down past it.

[Naomi-Tan]

MOD: Please fix the link to 1319 within 1318. It appears to not be functioning not giving people the choice to jump past it as I intended. Also VC. Thanks

[Naomi-Tan]

So apparently I need to follow up the post chain by explaining to V why each of the quotes is saying I'm pro town.

69 Though KTS doesn't use the words town it is implied in the kts way and being called pretty decent might as well be using the term townie even if its not explicitly said
90 here they say im just G which given context means that im good/cool aka town
109 here they say I am pretty town
110 here transcend agrees with KTS and therefore agrees that im town
111 just reinforcing what he said in 109
119 here I'm placed on the townie half of the read list. Meaning they think I'm town
130 here they are saying i'm second best town read
140 here light is saying me kts and transcend all look townie from our interactions which was loosly TvTvT
181 they eliminated me from there scum pile aka they think i'm townie.
294 once again on the town half of a read list
322 Being called an obvious town member
330 within there town pile
381 says multiple times that I feel townie
415 Is acting like I should know better (aka town)
459 top of town list
555 Stating that 510 could not be done by scum ever
567 stating im top tier town
570 once again someone saying that 510 is beyond what scum could do.
572 also agreeing that 510 is beyond scum's capacity to play
586 They saying that my read list in 518 is town motivated
635 Yup still being read as town, which is to say they think i'm town
670 They say im town by default (though this one is a bit of a stretch)
673 once again top of the read list
686 saying that my play style would be impossible to fake as scum. which means I must be town in there eyes
734 When creating a block of town players to not be lynched I was included (aka they think i'm townie enough to eliminate from a lynch)
735 disagrees with some of the listings but when it comes to myself they agree so; also thinks im townie enough to be eliminated from the lynch pool
738 read list where I'm top of town
747 Read list where i'm top of town
749 Saying that lights read list is like his own bar two people swapped one of which isn't myself so; i'm top of there read list
935 saying that me and transcend are both town on one of the lines and pointing out a TvT and then also calling me town multiple times throughout
937 saying im still town
939 saying that im good with IO which i'm interrupting as town
998 town blocked
999 disagrees with some of 998's town block but i'm not one of those so double town blocked
1107 really disbelieves that anyone could think of me as scum (aka i'm so townie that anyone thinking me not townie is either dumb town, trolling or scum)
1111 Naomi is town
1113 saying they think i'm town again

Now looking at the player list it goes like this;

1. xyzzy ✔
2. Transcend ✔
3. light_ganski ✔
4. massive ✔
5. Seraphim/Jordarrian ✔
6. Killthestory ✔
7. BlackStar ✔
8. Creature ✔
9. Skelda ✔
10. Vedith

X

11. Blitzkrieg/pistachi0n ✔
12. Io

X

when 10/12 players has you down as town by the end of day 1 your extremely likely not to see day 2

[Naomi-Tan]

I just realised it doesn't matter who scum targeted. I think its myself, but if it was blackstar then the same thing would happen. At the end of D1 I think this is blackstars list btw;
1. xyzzy ✔
2. Transcend ✔
3. light_ganski ✔
4. massive ✔
5. Seraphim/Jordarrian ✔
6. Killthestory ✔
7. BlackStar ✔
8. Creature ✔
9. Skelda ✔
10. Vedith ✔
11. Blitzkrieg/pistachi0n

X

12. Io ✔

So yes they did have more people thinking they was town.. but mine was more consistent (as in mine happened multiple times throughout and there's just spiked post scum kill)

[Naomi-Tan]

Sorry Transcend V just decided to be dumb and play stupid games.. take this post;

@Naomi
Take out scum and take out the multi posts you have 5 people calling you town and Creature crossing your name oit as scum, which coming from Creature doesn't mean a lot.

That's 5 people who could include scum in the whole game.
And yet you think you were more town read than Blackstar? Are you sure about that?
Over half those posts you showed not even called town .
You quoted light keep calling you town which just means he probably buddied you and a few posts from KTS who you are calling scum.
The reason you want everyone to skip it is because you don't want people to catch you out on it.

@everyone else - if you don't know this is fake then dear God.
I mean, read Naomi's iso and tell me that she is actually trying to game solve.

Where he says disreguarding the lists where everyone reads there thoughts on the player base not many have said about you being town. Its like... Why would people need to mention pro-townie behaviour if its not being questioned. If there is no reason to mention it of course its not going to be brought up very often. (only happening when people read back, or iso) and because of this he is disregarding most of the posts like.. 'Show me where people say your town. but anything that is a read list doesn't count' is just really dumb. Then he didn't even examine the posts and from what I can tell just looked for the words 'Naomi is town' Its like they asked for the content then ignored it rather than thinking on it >_< also I have no idea how he is getting KTS called me scum from any of those posts it just boggles my mind. (I have no idea what the skip it line is about)

The worst part is this is distracting me from where I want to be focused because some guy decided to act dumb. Worst part is I don't even think there scum right now (I think I may iso that as I can't recall them ever saying anyone is townie before an ISO) It just seems to genuine and that just makes it worse. like rubbing salt on the wound like. If this was !Scum motivated I could at least see a reason behind it but this is a TvT over stupid things because V is paranoid and can't accept that I am me. despite me going to unreasonable lengths to prove it. I really don't want to be talking about this but god damn.

[Naomi-Tan]

Can someone get this straight for me:

Do we have both a dayvig and a vig?

My Theory is a Day Vig (i think its one shot right now but that don't really matter) and a Jack Of All Trades with one shot-vig on it

[Naomi-Tan]

Can someone get this straight for me:

Do we have both a dayvig and a vig?

There hasn't been anything to suggest another vig

Also, I really doubt massive is a mafia NK.

Also, I really doubt massive is a mafia NK.

Im going to put this quote away for much later (not a post today but MUCH later)

You can take note of this now.

Mafia didn't kill massive.

Also, I really doubt massive is a mafia NK.

Im going to put this quote away for much later (not a post today but MUCH later)

You can take note of this now.

Mafia didn't kill massive.

And how do you know this..?

Starts with V

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm taking this as a soft claim. that they have the ability to kill. Which makes me think its JOAT as I doubt a full vig and a day vig in the same game.

[Naomi-Tan]

It also makes sense for creature to kill massive based on;

xyzzy
massive
Seraphim
Killthestory
Skelda
Vedith

Hopefully these don't live to LyLo (unless they're somewhat confirmed).

[Naomi-Tan]

KTS; confirm your VT and I'll just move on and put it down as a bad play :/ I think if you are VT then it kinda makes my case mute as it was based on you having information. So I'll just get back to other research.


Everyone; Just a follow up post on V. He has said people are townie a few times this list including; Light, Creature, (though he retracted his creature town read later on)
He was also the first one to toss out that black might of killed his scum buddy. Though I'm unsure if its meant to be a joke.
Shit the more I ISO V the more scummy I think he is :s He just toss's shade everywhere! the only person who he had down as townie was light and they was scum!
Oh good he says titus is town. the only other person who thought blackstar might be scum. Reviewing my earlier blackstar list though it is now;

1. xyzzy ✔
2. Transcend ✔
3. light_ganski ✔
4. massive ✔
5. Seraphim/Jordarrian ✔
6. Killthestory ✔
7. BlackStar ✔
8. Creature ✔
9. Skelda ✔
10. Vedith

X

11. Blitzkrieg/pistachi0n

X

12. Io ✔

And then two posts later he switches to blackstar town again linking posts 1008 1010
KTS, Io, Creature was listed as town in 1246 despite them not being town earlier Creature; 812 493 498 KTS; 568 (treated as active lurking) They are fairly separated out posts though.. but it just doesn't match up with the iso I read that they would be town listed. Its hard to get a good read due to this spacing though but the longer I read the more it looks like V is tossing shade at the wall and seeing what sticks!

Wow.. that was an experience. Everyone can you take the time to ISO read V and tell me if I'm just seeing things here?

PEDIT; Yeah Vig and day Vig doesn't make sense but I could see a one/two shot day vig combined with a JOAT with one-shot vig + other one shot roles

[Naomi-Tan]

EBWODP: KTS, Io, Creature was listed as town in 1246 despite them not being town earlier Creature; 812 493 498 KTS; 568 (treated as active lurking) They are fairly separated out posts though.. but it just doesn't match up with the iso I read that they

wouldn't

be town listed.

[Naomi-Tan]

But due to setup spec I kinda feel like this is a bluff because a vig and a dayvig does not make sense at all.

That's why I said there's nothing to support that theory. It seems really weird to have a day vig and a vig

Yeah but there is no Scum! motivation for that kill. it makes much more sense that either me or blackstar was targeted. I wouldn't believe day vig and vig but day vig and JOAT I can believe and shooting massive makes sense from a town!creature pov

[Naomi-Tan]

So here comes the lies from Naomi?
I never once said I town read Light. I said I didn't scum read him. That's a huuuuge fucking difference.
You also changed to me scum reading Blackstar at day end of day 1? That's also a lie.

You are saying that everyone said to you that they town read you. However, you're quotes suggested 5 people if you don't include Light.
You are saying that I had everyone as scum in day 1 apart from Light and Titus. That's another lie.

When I get home I'm going to provide everyone who said you're town with words of actually town and not something like "not scummy" I'm going to show everyone I called scum and everyone I called town considering I was throwing shade on everyone but Light and Titus, correct?

Then once you're caught out we can just lynch you.
Here's some self meta to go with your self meta - as scum I push or join easier wagons. As town I push who I actually think is scum which normally tends to be the harder wagons. Either you're an easy wagon that 'everyone' town reads or your not.

Either way, I'm calling out your bullshit and I'll be on about 7pm to prove the shit you're talking.

Your IP ****** has been blocked because it is blacklisted. For details please see http://www.spamhaus.org/query/bl?ip=92.40.248.181.

B i u quote code list list=

img URL Font colour align= anchor= area float= font= gifv goto line ooc pre reverse

If this can't be resolved by tomorrow I will be replacing out as I'm on holiday by tomorrow with only phone access. Some feel free to advise as I'm shit with this kind of stuff. :<

I GUESS! but you definately felt strong enough about them to go after blackstar so they must been town leaning at least. like you may of stated they was not scum multiple times but I GUESS techincally that means you didn't town read them This doesn't really make anything better though as you still did go after blackstar over it. It was good enough to be a town read even if it wasn't one. In your words now. You never gave read lists how the hell am I meant to track that and present it. I only have your actions to go on. your words said not scum, your actions say town.

Dude how can i tell where you stood at the end of day 1! you never once gave an answer and you flipp flopped on blackstar post thing multiple times >_<

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Vigilante

In normal games, vigs are always town. I don't like how your immediate reactions was to try and make me look like scum

You vigged someone who was about to be lynched.

What you linked is a night vig, not a day vig.
Day scum vigs do happen and not always town so that's incorrect on your part

However;

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

This proves you are town I guess.

Who pushes a person who literally just killed scum >_< This is scummy as heck!

I once dayvigged scum that was an obvious lynch when I was scum before, why can't others?
I went the whole game with town town reading me.
So pushing for him being scum here wouldn't be so bad, if it wasn't normal.

Regardless, this is town Titus 100%

lol vedith's reads are so terrible i honestly have no idea what to make with him

My reads can only be terrible if you already know peopls aligns...
Titus won't be scum, this is not scum Titus.
Blackstar won't be scum.

Any other reads I haven't given as I need to catch up and re read to get reads.

Explain how my reads are terrible?

Like those are your posts reviewing there alignment how the heck am I meant to be like; I guess there town reading them when you have two posts suspecting them. Its like you want me to ignore everything that happened before even if it was just 2 posts back!?

Im not indulging your 5 person theory it is entirely incorrect which I have proven beyond reason you can shove your 5 person theory to someone who cares about it 10 people had me as town read end of discussion.

You are saying that I had everyone as scum in day 1 apart from Light and Titus. That's another lie.

All I see is scum.

You say multiple people are scum, suspicious or ask when they are on a team and keep referencing there PT. I don't need much more than that.

I'm not going to read your 5 person theory post so don't waste your time. its not worth even considering.

[Naomi-Tan]

urgh I was so flustered I forgot to check if I had the right quote >_<

So Light was about to be lynched and Blackstar dayvigs him for town credit.

This was meant to be in place of 809

[Naomi-Tan]

You say multiple people are scum, suspicious or ask when they are on a team and keep referencing there PT. I don't need much more than that.

I'm not going to read your 5 person theory post so don't waste your time. its not worth even considering.

Point me to a player that hasn't had multiple people as scum in this game.
You are saying that me questioning/commenting on peoples actions is me calling them scum. Either one of us are mis reading something here or you are mis repping my ISO.

Why would you not read my counter to your comment of everyone calling you town?
You are giving false information out, and if you're not giving false information then that means my response will be false information. Either way it should be addressed, correct me if I'm wrong?

Im not reading your counter because its false and your not going to convince me other wise

Yes multiple people have had multiple players as scum. however they have likewise had multiple people as town and was willing to talk and change there veiws on things. you had over 20 posts railroading blackstar before he confirmed himself as town and your favourite arugement there just like here is that they was lying. Your using the same tactic accept i'm more volatile than blackstar.

[Naomi-Tan]

This is about as TVT as TVT can get.

Can we all hold hands, sing Kumbaya, and lynch Skelda?

I did say that they was town before this happened >_< but they want me to fight them.. and I'm thinking there less town when I researched and the harder they pushed.

[Naomi-Tan]

I also believe you both calling me 'V' is a scum slip but I'll add to that later when home.

You've lost your fucking marbles man.

Yeah WTF is that even. is everyone calling KTS KTS a scum slip too? What the hell. I didn't even get more down in your post than this part before having to create a post beacuse that is the dumbest thing i've ever heard

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vedith I no longer care about your alignment I just want you gone from this game.

[Naomi-Tan]

I did say that they was town before this happened >_< but they want me to fight them.. and I'm thinking there less town when I researched and the harder they pushed.

So I'm scum because I called you scum...
That's what this basically says.
And KTS is my buddy, yeah?

No it says that you focusing on me made me look into you; iso you, had to re-read the game beacuse you demanding a fuck ton of quotes. and that made me review my position as can happen when your exposed to the entire game at once. My points on KTS are entirely unrelated to your thing and concidering you only mentioned them once and it was the weakest post. I wouldn't disbelieve your in a group. (from your perspective) not sure about from KTS's perspective because I honestly don't remember (plus he always is promising content and then waiting a few days before posting)

[Naomi-Tan]

Urgh... Do I have to.. It would be much easier to scum hunt without him being a shit >_<

[Naomi-Tan]

I no longer care about your alignment I just want you gone from this game.

You've heard it here first.
Naomi wants me gone because I am calling her scum, not because of my align.

@Blackstar - If 1 is calling me V all game and 1 is calling me Vedith all game, I can see them slipping here from talking about me in PT as the other taking habbits from one another.
You find scum a lot more by the small things than you do the big things imo, and I think that talking in PT has great influence on how people react, respond and just generally type. That's something I stand by.

Do you not find how they talk about each other or their bad interaction together even remotley odd?

Comments of TvT normally come from scum with a TvS, and TvS normally come from scum against a TvS.

Challenge me on that, go for it.

Before I even put my actual post in to prove Naomi wrong, Trans is trying to stop the conversation further and Naomi is already refusing to read it.
That's scared scum.

No Im refusing to read your 5 man thing because its BS and I've proved its BS and you won't listen about it, so as your not going to listen to my breakdwon why should i take the time to listen to your break down.

As for proving TvT thing. you can look back to ealier in the game where me KTS and Transcend all went TvTvT and when I went after XYZZY where after I worked out they was T but posted it anyway. TvT means two people are interacting to try and make the other look worse with both of them being town. there are higher odds of a TvT interaction than not a TvT interaction

As for your speach thing, its all most like we been talking for nearly 2000 posts in a thread or something and Vedith is much longer to type than V I have no idea who called you V first. but it is quicker. I picked up KTS from another thread too as town so its not like its something I don't do. Using this as a scum tell is NAI/Bad town play. As you can just pick up speech patterns from In thread like i have over the course of this game.

[Naomi-Tan]

Okay so returning to where I want my focus to be; I just need to know if KTS is VT and was bluffing now. soon as KTS says he is VT we can just move on.

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi:

You're a weirdo.

yeah, probably :3 But not sure why you'd point that out.

[Naomi-Tan]

Your predecessor's predecessor ancestor was scummy too

[Naomi-Tan]

lol Massive and his man candy statement

you reached 510 yet? I find blackstars reaction to it funny everytime I ISO back

[Naomi-Tan]

I suddenly realise how poorly I been handling my kts thing. I'm going to back for beacuse it was dumb and there are many other ways to look at it that I hadn't thought of until today. so... yeah Im now thinking KTS is likely not scum and I spent the majority of the day miss reading him. Think I'll just dump my blocks

Town; BlackStar, Killthestory, Creature,
likely town; IO
Leaning Town; Transcend, RachMarie/Seraphim/Jordarrian
Leaning Scum; Skelda, Vedith
Likely Scum; Blitzkrieg/pistachi0n

Transcend - I think it would of been in scums best intrest to build pressure on me while I was flustered and frustrated with Vedith's presence however, Transcend talked me down and helped me calm down. This isn't a move I think scum would do so for now I'm still thinking there town
RachMarie/Seraphim/Jordarrian - I feel that sera had strong content and would of been a good townie member if they stuck around. rach also had a pretty nice entrance where she read over the game which I appricate the efforts of
Killthestory - I'm a moron. I dislike there constant promises of content and stuff. but there proberably town imo
BlackStar - day vigged scum. Pretty much confirmed as they get
Creature - Honesty about shooting someone was appricated. doubt there scum they just feel too townie to be scum tbh
Skelda - they lurked most of the day promising and not giving. Could be unmotivation but as we are now deep into day 2 i'm starting to feel that activity is important enough to slip them down from null.
Vedith - I dislike all the stuff they done and said and hate there toxic style and rail roading hard.
Blitzkrieg/pistachi0n - one of two people to push a blackstar lynch D1 with any kind of content I don't like blitz's thoughts there, strikes me as not great. Also was suspicious of there predicessors pushes. so.. There my most suspicious target right now.
9. Io

[Naomi-Tan]

Dough Forgot IO; Solid content and well thought out too. likely to be town

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm currently treating my V vote as just a place to hold my vote before voting others. Mostly because I'm just not going to object it regardless of his alignment. Its like my neutral pos. I think rach has contributed more than V in a town mentality. So.. there more likely town.

[Naomi-Tan]

Actually Creature probably shouldn't be conf town but I fail to see him claiming as vig with only one kill from his mafia faction which means that there's probably a block or save that suspended tonight's kill.

I agree.

[Naomi-Tan]

Err what? I'm not understanding.

[Naomi-Tan]

Personally I think blitz is scum because they took great lengths to try and convince us that a pretty much confirmed town day vig wasn't town and that light was town reading there slot for no good reason IMO. I find people more scummy if I struggle to understand there thoughts.

[Naomi-Tan]

Personally I think blitz is scum because they took great lengths to try and convince us that a pretty much confirmed town day vig wasn't town and that light was town reading there slot for no good reason IMO. I find people more scummy if I struggle to understand there thoughts.

If you suck read people you don't understand, then you'll be mislynching people in every game that you play

I guess.. I just find that if I can think of a !Town motivation it must be !Scum motivated.. and I can't think of any !town motivation to push you.. nor can i find scum! though was is a panic push? or just something to do activity? I have no idea..

[Naomi-Tan]

@IO thats pretty much why i'm not on eht train too... Skelda Is only scummy by lack of inactivity and even then there the least scummy in my current sets. I'm really wanting them to have a good replacement or something to help everything along.

[Naomi-Tan]

Can I get your thoughts on Scum!KTS Blackstar? He was my oringal thoughts for the day but now I'm town leaning and wanna know your reasoning

[Naomi-Tan]

I guess i do have a bit of explaining to do; I though about my theory and it is all good excluding; watcher and tracker and gun smith all of which I disreguarded at the time. and with Creature admitting to the kill It made KTS back off. which I didn't get at the time :/ sorry IO

[Naomi-Tan]

I was worried they'd push on me.. given I just shown that I freak out a bit with people on me.. so wanted to answer that before I got people thinking im scum a miss lynch happens. Sorry Rach

[Naomi-Tan]

I wanna lynch V just for being a jerk. but Out of Creatures set I Would go;

Town -> Transcend, KTS, Skelda, V <- Scum

[Naomi-Tan]

I do as well.. as I can't think of town motivation on him here..

[Naomi-Tan]

Me and V are not getting along. I've done blowing up at V being a jerk for now. So I'm just kinda letting his stuff sit. but I don't like it at all..

[Naomi-Tan]

Me and V are not getting along. I've done blowing up at V being a jerk for now. So I'm just kinda letting his stuff sit. but I don't like it at all..

I'm a jerk because I think you're scum!

Your a jerk beacuse you spent the majority of day one tunnelling blackstar who was town. and then switched to tunnelling others when they turned out to be town. you hound people regardless of alignment or efforts they are putting into trying to scum hunt! I put so much effort, reading and re-reading and your just like; pfft they are trying too hard bet they are scum.

[Naomi-Tan]

Your a jerk beacuse you spent the majority of day one tunnelling blackstar who was town. and then switched to tunnelling others when they turned out to be town. you hound people regardless of alignment or efforts they are putting into trying to scum hunt! I put so much effort, reading and re-reading and your just like; pfft they are trying too hard bet they are scum.

I'm a jerk because I'm pushing who I believe is scum!
Does this make Titus a jerk too? Lets be truthful here, you are just AtE right now... "He called me scum, omg what a jerk lets lynch him regardless of alignment".
Effort can be put in by either align, it's if it's believable or not, and I don't believe yours.

NO! >_< Thats not even how town thinks ! URGH Go away!!

[Naomi-Tan]

Go away Go Away Just talk to anyone else I don't wanna be around you >_<

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm Willing to explore it for you guys. but I'm not sure if its a great idea to be a kill.

[Naomi-Tan]

Really? Well... Here is a 1 - 4 chance of killing scum..