Kids TV Show Characters Mafia - Endgame

[Transcend]

BTW: I have no idea where my vote is rn but if it's on someone then

UNVOTE:

[MagnaofIllusion]

yo MoI if you've been so sure about hiplop being scum, why did you lynch SS with him? Did you think he was bussing?

It's possible. Why are you asking me about a deadline vote I made to assure we didn't get a No Lynch (which would be a disaster given the disjointed and split nature of the playerbase)? Did you expect me to say "Hmmm ... this player I am scum reading is also on the wagon I can't vote there even if there are chances I am wrong about said player?"

I mean given you hammered a claimed Town read Day 1 I'm not sure what your line of thinking is here ...

[Zulfy]

I'd've'nt hammered Hiplop by the way.

Can believe him.

VOTE: BROseidon
Haven't exactly found out what's going on but this should be okay.

In all this reading of yours, what made Bro stick out??
He didn't even seem to be one you were looking at..

This boy oi

Hmm I was in the middle of typing that and then went back to work so I don't know what that sentence could have been.

I didn't like his reasonings regarding DS and farside that I found on my travels.

Whoever said it's shady you focused on this can be wrong, I can see this being a thing you pick up on.

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Diamond Sentinel

[Eleven]

Vote Count 3.08

[4] DiamondSentinel ~ Medical Junkies, Aristophanes, BROseidon, Firebringer
[4] hiplop ~ DiamondSentinel, Grib, Cephrir, MagnaofIllusion
[2] MagnaofIllusion ~ Gammagooey, hiplop
[1] BROseidon ~ Zulfy
[1] Gammagooey ~ Firebringer

[2] Not Voting ~ SnowStorm, Transcend

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch!

Deadline is at (expired on 2016-09-20 12:00:00).

[BROseidon]

Ceph why are you on hiplop when you know, deep in your heart, that hiplop's town.

[hiplop]

youre the greatest bro.

[Cephrir]

Ceph why are you on hiplop when you know, deep in your heart, that hiplop's town.

I am sheeping Grib because my reads are all shit.

[BROseidon]

But.

Deep in your heart.

You know he's wrong.

[Cephrir]

I know nothing except the contents of my role PM and any PMs I may or may not have gotten from the mod.

[Firebringer]

Did you make your own role PM?

[Transcend]

Game is hard

[Aristophanes]

In all this reading of yours, what made Bro stick out??
He didn't even seem to be one you were looking at..

Bro's not getting lynched today. Neither is Zulfy. Not enough momentum on either slots.

Why is this the most important thing you return to the thread to comment on?

What are your reads on DS / Gamma / Hiplop and why?

I don't think either is getting lynched today. Does that mean I shouldn't engage and question this? No.

DS - Scummy. Gamma - Light townread. Hippy - heavier townread.

[Gammagooey]

The board went down for a bit while I was making this so if the quotes seem slightly fucked it's because they are.

Reading MoI's posts individually don't come across as town at all. He doesn't have any town reads that ever actually

need

to be defended with the exception of Waco, which I'll get to in a bit, he's been pushing on a pile of likely/flipped town players the whole game, and I really don't think his Imperium read was genuine.

I don't think anyone would disagree that MoI and Imperium's interactions could have been scum/scum until pretty close to the end of day 1 when MoI mentions that Waco's likely town because of gut and because he's Imperium's fall guy for the day and solidifies that read. MoI comes out of the start of the game already prodding at Imperium for Tammy possibly not posting, harps on another of Imp's early posts and eventually has a long series of interactions with Imperium where they split off reads of snarky and camntsuki and waco kid, with MoI town reading all of them except waco and Imperium doing the reverse, and MoI tying both of snarky and camnsuki to Imperium.

And then day 2 rolls around with Imperium dead, and MoI votes hiplop instead of either of the people he was just commenting on being scum with Imperium the previous day. It really feels like MoI is trying to save lynching them for later when it'll be more important and the interactions he brought up earlier will pay off better, I dislike MoI responding to Ceph's question of Why Waco is town with 'gut and imp is scum' when I don't think the amount of suspicion MoI attacked Imp with makes sense from Imp's posts alone, (and as a very minor point I don't think MoI is really much of a gut player at all), and MoI hammering Snarky with a comment that seems to expect him to flip town despite MoI having a scum read on snarky for all of day 1 and as his 3rd highest scumread day 2 feels SO, SO awful.

Lastly, if you were here when the claiming clusterfuck happened, you probably saw a slight change of play from MoI that Bro mentioned. Once the gamestate changed to something actually threatening to him, he immediately bumped up his activity slightly, but more than that it actually started feeling like he was engaged with the game whereas he never needed to be before, and I think that's way more likely to be coming from scum than town.

SOME MOI WORDS

Spoiler: MoI commenting to Ceph about Waco-town/Imp-scum

In post 1549, Cephrir wrote:
at least when i disagree with someone you can usually tell why i disagree with them -- you're handwaving imperium's push and i don't understand what your reasoning is for doing so


Is this the part where I say “I have a gut read that Waco isn’t scum that I can’t fully explain”?

Yes that’s a little snarky. But I think it is in line with the tone of the thread, especially a large number of posts I’ve had to deal with.

My problem with Imperium’s Waco case is basically Imperium – I’m having a hard time getting a Town read on Nacho’s posting and thought process. I could go through his case right now and lay out why I don’t see the points he made as compelling but I’m just going to say that I didn’t buy into it when I first read it and leave it at that. After all giving 100% of my thoughts to the thread isn’t an exercise I’m going to engage in when there are many other examples of players keeping their reasoning “close to the vest”. The Waco push looks very much to me like a “designated fall guy” push from Imperium not an honest scum-hunting effort.

Can I be wrong. Sure, maybe. I’m guessing we will know very soon.

[/quote]

Spoiler: a bunch of MoI's comments on Snarky

I’m inclined to read Snarky as scum for 64 especially after all the commentary on how he’s not going to do anything.

I regret engaging Cheetory on Snarky when he first questioned my Snarky read if only because in hindsight I probably should have given Snarky some more rope to hang himself with. But that’s out the door. 64 is not a post Town Snarky makes. His complete lack of reaction to my post on my success of reading him in the past makes sense from a scum perspective. I had called him scum but my vote was still on Diamond. Best course of action is not to “poke the bear” and maybe let my early read wash away in the obvious tidal wave of posts every Large game gets Day 1.

On top of Snarky and hiplop I’d also be satisfied with a camntsuki wagon after that weak-ass entrance. After supposedly reading 24 pages of material.

eh snarky gets lynched day one like literally every game

Nope. In fact he didn’t get lynched as Town Day 1 in any of my joint games with him. Try again to dissuade a wagon on him?

It just

never feels good to lynch that snowman

Yup you did.

snarky being lynchbait is irrefutable, is what I am saying

Ooo and again.

VOTE: snarky

trusting you. Can't read the snowman

And the 180 based 100% on sheeping others when you’ve just made multiple statements about how he’s not a good lynch?

Awkward Bus Hop Engage!

MoI - Hopped on me like page 12 or something. Is not a current vote.

I know he generally dislikes my play though, so not sure if that has any effect on it.

I just voted him on page 28 or so specifically after he claimed to have missed my bad and forth with Cheet on page 13. So it not being a current vote is purely incorrect.

And the bolded makes me confident that he's scum. Because he knows what I Town read him I don't push him and actively try to lynch scum-reads. Like in Inspirational when I lynched scum looking to lynch him. Or in Open 633 where I tried to lynch scum Ranger and specifically said I didn't see any scum motivation in his play. Even after games like Fire and Ice Mafia where he chose to wagon me at deadline with absolutely no reasoning instead of helping hammer the scum counterwagon I had pushed all Day 2.

Also the Snarky wagon dissipating on Nachos cute but irrelevant “Oh, no-one can read him” tale I think will be a great place to start looking for bussers who hopped at the first sign of an easy exit.

@Imperium

– why are you ignoring my question about Tammy’s participation in the hydra?

So Medical Junkies just claimed to be 100% Mod Confirmed Day 2. So that is a self-solving problem and anyone still clinging to a lynch on that slot can be scum.


--

People who "project town" end up dead, mostly. And most endgames are a bunch of lurkertown and a bunch of scumzors, and the games suck and scum win.

Complains about how it is Pro-scum to not “project Town”. Proudly states it is what they are doing.

Lynch away!

w/e. I'm going to bed, but if this wagon builds steam:
We are Clifford, The big Red Dog, and we are Vanilla.

g'night! Lynch us if you want!

A VT claim with like 4 total votes?

More Camnt votes. This needs to happen today.

708 has zero scum-hunting. They vote Snarky without a hint of about why. The mudslinging on Grib is fluff. And there’s some buddying to Ceph but that’s not scum hunting either.

In post 1219, Imperium wrote:
My cute but irrelevant tale is why I personally am not voting him at this point in time; I've also responded to your case and where I felt it went wrong, so if you're looking to actually talk why you think that Snarky is scum with me, I'd recommend that as a good jumping off point.

I didn't ignore your question about Tammy's participation; if the question is "why hasn't she posted yet?" she hasn't participated yet because she is also sick and starting her new semester next week, and thus her priorities lie there.


Frankly I don’t think there is much to discuss. You basically asserted that no-one was able to read Snarky successfully. And a whole bunch of Null to Scum players took that ball and ran with it. Suffice it to say I disagree with you but the horse is out of the barn and I’m not going to waste time trying to convince you that my opinion holds merit when you’ve clearly made up your mind given the evidence I already laid out.

And yeah – you did ignore it ipso facto when there was not comment 1 made about it. I don’t know fact 1 about Tammy’s off board life and it feels like I was somehow expected to have some psychic power to be able to derive those facts given the lack of response.

In post 1406, Imperium wrote:
Your case on Snarky seems to be that he didn't respond to you saying that you could read him successfully.
I don't think this is a significant case based on Snarky's lack of reading comprehension which he demonstrated quite soundly in Near Vanilla.
Do you have a rebuttal to that?


You’ve simplified the case that’s for sure. I’ll leave sorting why you did that for later.

The case on Snarky starts with 64. That post is that I feel comes from Town Snarky on page 3 of a game. You can disagree with me but I’m fairly confident in my assessment. He’s quantifying that he has preferred wagons (aka players he thinks are scum) based on 60ish posts into the game. That in itself should be a warning sign.

The second portion you mentioned above – my comment about my feel of Snarky as scum led to a back and forth with Cheet where he asked me to show my Snarky reading credentials. Snarky’s play around this I think has strong scum motivations. At that point despite me saying I thought he could be scum I had my vote on another candidate in Diamond. Scum Snarky poking at my assessment in any way ran the risk of me following through on my gut read and move to wagon him. Town Snarky on the other hand I can see saying something to the effect of “MoI you’ve always read me as Town correctly as you pointed out what is different here?”. Hell he might even get a scum read of me for it if he was Town. And yes I’ve seen your “Snarky doesn’t pay attention” comment that I disagree with. In Open 633 it certainly wasn’t a case that he wasn’t reading that got him lynched. It was that he chose to scum read Radiant and poked Radiant’s fragile ego. And in none of the other Town games I’ve had with Snarky has there ever been any sort of “Oops, I’m behind” excuse from him. He simply doesn’t address it.

The third portion is his reaction to the wagon – he immediately plays the “I’m Low Hanging Fruit” card. Again from our shared experience in Open 633 he didn’t use play that card. He stuck to his guns on scum-reading Radiant and only mentioned that he gets lynched to confirm what other players said about him.

Lastly (and this has not been explicitly explained in thread by me before) – this game he shows no signs of having actual reads. Open 633 once again highlights this – he drew a read on Radiant and pushed it. He also (incorrectly) pushed reads on yourself, Oceanwind and Bellaphant as scum. Here he’s popping in to stay active but has no drive to his posts. He’s basically actively lurking after he got early pressure.

So yes, there’s your rebuttal.

I also find it interesting that you’ve expressed as desire to get rid of non-performing slots and specifically don’t want to get rid of slots that “might improve” given that you have actively fought against Snarky as being a good lynch. Because of all the players in the game he certainly fits the definition of players who don’t carry their own weight and there is no historic expectation that it will change as days go on. Inspirational Mafia is an example – he was a Town Rolestopper who didn’t Rolestop protect a claimed Neopolitan and once the Neopolitan was Nightkilled and flipped Town didn’t Rolestop protect the confirmed Vanilla Town player the Neopolitan had cleared.

And yet Snarky isn’t anywhere to be seen on your radar. I have issues with the discontinuity in your posting and stated motivation and subsequent play.

[Cephrir]

I agree with Gammagooey

[Grib]

We're probably not gonna lynch someone who essentially claimed Doc.

That should work itself out.

[Grib]

Because let's be real: if Magna is scum, then he's going to get found out sooner or later. No way a scumteam leaves a Commutizer alive and risk bouncing more shots in the future. Especially with a Serial Killer on the loose.

[Grib]

In fact, I massively dislike Gammgooey (who was CC'd) for pushing on a protective claim after the mafia kill failed. On top of the JOAT CC.

The Hider ability does give me pause, though.

Not thrilled with his decision to watch MJ. If he wanted to prove DS was town (which would be super helpful, since we've been fighting about it for around an IRL month), and if he really thought DS was town, then he should have Hid with him last Night.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I’m not going to waste my time responding to Gamma’s post given I’m not getting lynched. I can’t tell if Gamma is just terrible Town who can’t let personal issue go or scum who is desperately trying a Hail Mary before just giving in to the reality that I have to be Nightkilled to be dealt with.

However while taking a spin through the slot ISO on re-read this popped up to me –

since it's actually relevant now my last ability is a hide, and I've asked eleven already if I can get a little bit more specific on the flavor for the abilities

eleven got back to me and i can claim the ability names, they're telescope glasses for the watch, the secret of Yo(-Yo) for the roleblock, and Malaria Net Tent for the hide

Gamma is saying that he didn’t in his initial role PM have flavor associated with each JOAT ability. This doesn’t seem to match my RolePm at all since my flavor for my Commuterize is the name of my ability –“All Aboard the Magic School Bus”. I’m doubting that Gamma’s original Role PM didn’t list those claimed flavor elements (Telescope Glasses, Secret of Yo-Yo, Malaria Net Tent) as the abilities at his disposal. Possible given a JOAT might be formatted differently that a single power role but I think Bro can clear this up.

@Bro

– how is your RolePm structured vis-a-vie the individual JOAT 1-shot abilities? Does it list them like this –

Don’t leave your friends – you have three one use abilities you can use a night – a Roleblock, a Hide and a Watch.

Or like this –

Don’t leave your friends – you have three one use abilities you can use at night

Telescope Glasses – You may Watch …
Secret of Yo-Yo – You can Roleblock …
Malaria Net Tent – You can Hide …

If it is the first then what I saw was just natural differences in formatting due to the nature of the role. If it is the second (or some other variant that Bro can explain) then Gretchen is almost assuredly a fake-claim and he didn’t think to ask for more flavor details before having to claim. Given the Mafia is the "Creepy Costumed Cabal" I imagine that the Mafia members are all actually costumed personas and have been provided non-costumed fake-claims.

Also would like to mention that Gamma’s claimed Night 2 watch on MJ also fits pretty well with a Mafia Watch hoping to catch a Serial Killer taking a shot at the Friendly Neighbor.

[SnowStorm]

You just wasted your time writing a post that is obviously wrong, you might as well waste some more and respond to Gamma.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You just wasted your time writing a post that is obviously wrong, you might as well waste some more and respond to Gamma.

Why don't you point out what's wrong? I'd be curious what you think it is.

Unless it is that you strong Townread Gamma in which case I don't care.

[SnowStorm]

You just wasted your time writing a post that is obviously wrong, you might as well waste some more and respond to Gamma.

Why don't you point out what's wrong? I'd be curious what you think it is.

Unless it is that you strong Townread Gamma in which case I don't care.

I'm not gonna spoil it.

[Cephrir]

Gamma is saying that he didn’t in his initial role PM have flavor associated with each JOAT ability.

what's wrong is that those quotes do not say this

[MagnaofIllusion]

what's wrong is that those quotes do not say this

Inherent in having to ask for flavor for each of his JOAT abilities is the fact that they are not shown in his original Role Pm. That's pretty clear.

My RolePm does not say

Commuterize - All Aboard the Magic School Bus - text text text.

It says

All Aboard the Magic School Bus - text explaining the Commuterize ability.

So I do not expect he would have to ask for flavor related to each ability if he RolePm is formatted similarly to mine.

As said - Bro can quickly clear this up.

[Transcend]

I just need a flip to at least attempt to sort this out because I'm beyond lost.