Open 652- Making Friends and Enemies: Over

[Narurider]

You have clearly missed the entire point behind my post, if you think I care whether you take another look at me if NM turns out to be scum or not. I could care less if you think I'm scum with NM. What I do care about is the fact that you claimed I was strongly opposed to his wagon, which I'm not and you

haven't

shown me anything that actually

shows

that. Instead you've made a rather weak claim that I was feeding him an excuse to get him out of being lynched.

Whoops, got some words confused

[karnos]

WHOAAAA
what the fuck don't misrep me like that I'm not even fucking close to "strongly opposed"
i just think there are objectively better options

We're fucking flipping texcat and then I swear to god I will see you dead or die trying

this post is so bad on so many levels, tex did virtually nothing AI

Interesting. Did I get it a little too close to the mark?

I was about to drop the whole subject, but this overly defensive response really makes me want to flip NM and see what happens.

[karnos]

I don't want to break any rules about ongoing games, but I think it's kosher to say this: not_mafia is posting in other games. He obviously has time to play, he is just choosing to not use it in this game. It's obviously *not* an IRL reason keeping him from posting here, as naru theorized.

It is absolutely allowed to discuss general activity.

That said - even looking there, his activity is spotty at best.
He's basically being a loser lurcksack across the site in multiple games.
Which edges into "he's a bad player" territory for me over "he's scum plotting on us"

Get him to L-1 and I'll hammer for lulz, but frankly I think it looks like he needs to play in less games and stop being rude to other players.
Let's also not pretend that the Tex wagon isn't valid - which you keep trying to sorta sell here, and I find it laughable and have been openly arguing the opposite and you haven't addressed my thoughts once while also acting like it's nothing but a counter wagon. I could make the same exact debate point back at the N_M wagon, and have the same argument strength.

I guess I feel the same as you, except with the names reversed. I was there when Martha was being wagoned, and I wasn't going to let up pressure easily, but looking back now I can't fairly say the early scum tells couldn't be due to inexperience or language issues rather than alignment. Still, I can't deny the possibility that martha might be a newbie AND scum, but that just puts her about equal with my scum read of NM, and not a reason to jump wagons prior to at least *some* defense or valid explanation from NM.

We are also still a week from deadline. It just feels weird to be running her up to L-1 again, after we have already been there with martha & texcat. Are we going to get anything new? I doubt it. Are we going to quick lynch when we still have a week left? Seems like anti-town to waste so much potential time. Lets focus on others.

A bit closer to deadline, with no better lynch, I'll happily hammer texcat. But this just seems counterproductive right now.

[karnos]

WHOAAAA
what the fuck don't misrep me like that I'm not even fucking close to "strongly opposed"
i just think there are objectively better options

We're fucking flipping texcat

and then I swear to god I will see you dead or die trying

this post is so bad on so many levels,

tex did virtually nothing AI

On second glance, can you clarify the bolded?

It seems like you are admitting that texcat isn't acting scummy at all to you, but you want to lynch her above all else? Is there any particular reason for this? Is it purely because of martha's action in the slot?

[Zyf]

WHOAAAA
what the fuck don't misrep me like that I'm not even fucking close to "strongly opposed"
i just think there are objectively better options

We're fucking flipping texcat

and then I swear to god I will see you dead or die trying

this post is so bad on so many levels,

tex did virtually nothing AI

On second glance, can you clarify the bolded?

It seems like you are admitting that texcat isn't acting scummy at all to you, but you want to lynch her above all else? Is there any particular reason for this? Is it purely because of martha's action in the slot?

yes it's purely due to martha
tex is like an NM that is actually caught up but still isn't doing things
killing tex will generate much more knowledge than NM, i can assure you of that.

[Zyf]

VOTE: texcat
honestly wtf the answer was pretty obvious
stop throwing shade m8

I would love it if you could rejoin the excellent Hark wagon.

PEdit - Penguin, as I understand it, your scum read on Karnos is based on meta, yeah? Because meta is really bad.

The only people I don't want to lynch are Thor, NJAC, Zyf, Naru and Io. (More town reads than I thought I had)

Whoever else is town needs to step the fuck up or get lynched.

it's fucking useless tho because it has a complete inability to gather steam rn

[Zyf]

Really liking karnos for scum here, throwing shade everywhere basically while doing jack

[karnos]

killing tex will generate much more knowledge than NM, i can assure you of that.

Care to share?

tex flips scum: ok, who are her partners?

tex flips town: what exactly did you learn?

You think lynching texcat right now makes sense? Throw away the next 7 days before deadline, lets just quicklynch and get it over with?

[karnos]

Really liking karnos for scum here, throwing shade everywhere basically while doing jack

So, if you don't accuse anyone, you aren't doing any AI, and you must be scum.

But if you are scum hunting, and throwing out accusations, you must be scum because you are "throwing shade".

I don't like this line of thinking from you, it seems like you are crafting an argument so you can call a person scum no matter what they do.

[karnos]

Is it purely because of martha's action in the slot?

yes it's purely due to martha
tex is like an NM that is actually caught up but still isn't doing things
killing tex will generate much more knowledge than NM, i can assure you of that.

Really. I find your argument to be a little unbelievable, because you were waffling on your vote for marth from the start, and you unvoted her BEFORE she was replaced.

Somehow I don't think you actually wanted her lynched at all. Maybe martha is a scum slot, and you are her scum partner. All your voting and unvoting early in the day was trying to fake interactions but not actually lynch her, and then you were happy to unvote first when she finally hit L-1.

I'm just not sure if you have changed your mind and decided to bus her, or if you are planning to unvote again when the wagon gets bigger.

VOTE: zyf

Actually, if zyf is scum it's because he is busing.

VOTE: texcat

[Save The Dragons]

The

easiest vote count I ever done did

vote count

5 texcat (Thor665, Narurider, Zyf, Harkonnen97, karnos)

2 Not_Mafia (Loopdan, texcat)
2 Harkonnen97 (Io, BlueBloodedToffee)
2 karnos (Dunnstral, Penguin Power)
1 Zyf (NJAC)
1 BlueBloodedToffee (Not_Mafia)

Not Voting: Nobody.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day ends:
(expired on 2016-09-21 04:08:06)

[Thor665]

I guess I feel the same as you, except with the names reversed.

Except you can't - because I'm actively engaging you.

Are we going to quick lynch when we still have a week left? Seems like anti-town to waste so much potential time. Lets focus on others.

No - that is silly play. We should flip Tex and then have actual info to discuss tomorrow - everyone but N_M has weighed in on the slot, and N_M has at least been a counterwagon to it.
Extending the day an extra week will lead to boredom, empty posting, and meaningless anti-town paranoia.

[PenguinPower]

We are also still a week from deadline. It just feels weird to be running her up to L-1 again, after we have already been there with martha & texcat. Are we going to get anything new? I doubt it. Are we going to quick lynch when we still have a week left? Seems like anti-town to waste so much potential time. Lets focus on others.

And, yet, 40 minutes later:

VOTE: texcat

[karnos]

I guess I feel the same as you, except with the names reversed.

Except you can't - because I'm actively engaging you.

I think you misread me. Reversing the names martha and not_mafia, is what I meant. What is seen as scummy could just be martha being a generally bad player, language issue, newbie or whatever. While she said she was an alt, I don't even know if that is true.

The difference I see is that martha was trying to defend herself, poorly, while NM seems to not even care at all. That pushes him down a bit in my reads, but I'd agree that either of them are lynchable. It just annoys me that we have already had the martha/texcat slot at L-1 for a good bit of time to gather useful information, while certain people seem afraid or unwilling to put NM at L-1.

[karnos]

We are also still a week from deadline. It just feels weird to be running her up to L-1 again, after we have already been there with martha & texcat. Are we going to get anything new? I doubt it. Are we going to quick lynch when we still have a week left? Seems like anti-town to waste so much potential time. Lets focus on others.

And, yet, 40 minutes later:

VOTE: texcat

There is a very obvious reason for the vote that you are leaving out.

[PenguinPower]

There is a very obvious reason for the vote that you are leaving out.

What? Because zyf is scum? Then vote zyf. Bad play to vote texcat because you think zyf is scum bussing.

[Loopdan]

The difference I see is that martha was trying to defend herself, poorly, while NM seems to not even care at all. That pushes him down a bit in my reads, but I'd agree that either of them are lynchable. It just annoys me that we have already had the martha/texcat slot at L-1 for a good bit of time to gather useful information, while certain people seem afraid or unwilling to put NM at L-1.

Here here.

Players are calling each other out in this game for not contributing, but they'll turn a blind eye to NM because it's just how he plays. For the good of site-meta, why aren't we lynching him!? If you want MS to be flooded with players who intentionally prod dodge and do nothing to help town, then by all means, give NM a pass. If you want a mafia forum that doesn't put up with this nonsense, then start not putting up with this nonsense.

Also, say goodbye to Loopdan.

I will be playing as "Not_Loopdan" until one of Not_Mafia or Loopdan is lynched. That means you can expect another post from me in 47 hours and 52 minutes.

[Dunnstral]

hi I'm here

I'll have a good post later: short version, Karnos scummy still

[Thor665]

While she said she was an alt, I don't even know if that is true.

If she was town - she wouldn't lie.
If she was scum - you should lynch her whether it was a lie or not.
What are you even talking about here? You're presuming an alt claim was a lie to advance a newbie read...the hell?

The difference I see is that martha was trying to defend herself, poorly, while NM seems to not even care at all. That pushes him down a bit in my reads, but I'd agree that either of them are lynchable. It just annoys me that we have already had the martha/texcat slot at L-1 for a good bit of time to gather useful information, while certain people seem afraid or unwilling to put NM at L-1.

The N_M wagon popped up plenty quick, and got plenty large.
Beyond forcing a claim - you already have the info of who defended and who supported the wagon.
What more do you need there exactly?

[karnos]

While she said she was an alt, I don't even know if that is true.

If she was town - she wouldn't lie.
If she was scum - you should lynch her whether it was a lie or not.
What are you even talking about here? You're presuming an alt claim was a lie to advance a newbie read...the hell?

Not a lie. I doubt she knew what the word even meant. It's commonly used term in other games, but doesn't mean exactly the same thing. There was a number of other things she said that just made no sense at all, either as scum or town, but fit if you assume a poor understanding of the English language. I think that might be what was going on there. I'd dig up examples, but... eh, if we are lynching her anyway it doesn't matter.

The difference I see is that martha was trying to defend herself, poorly, while NM seems to not even care at all. That pushes him down a bit in my reads, but I'd agree that either of them are lynchable. It just annoys me that we have already had the martha/texcat slot at L-1 for a good bit of time to gather useful information, while certain people seem afraid or unwilling to put NM at L-1.

The N_M wagon popped up plenty quick, and got plenty large.
Beyond forcing a claim - you already have the info of who defended and who supported the wagon.
What more do you need there exactly?

A defense from NM? Some reads from him? You know, the usual.

Scum can fake support for a wagon if they don't think it's going to result in a lynch... possibly because they plan to eject when it hits L-2.

Whatever though, I'm okay with a martha slot lynch if it's the best we are getting.

[Zyf]

killing tex will generate much more knowledge than NM, i can assure you of that.

Care to share?

tex flips scum: ok, who are her partners?

tex flips town: what exactly did you learn?

You think lynching texcat right now makes sense? Throw away the next 7 days before deadline, lets just quicklynch and get it over with?

lmao

the point is that the texcat slot HAS had interactions that can connect to leads of some sort
I'm not gonna fucking do that early because at this point I don't think it's a good lynch anymore
VOTE: karnos

what the fuck is with your constant misrepresentations of my intentions/implications of my writing and complete lack of interest in doing anything with it?

[Zyf]

Is it purely because of martha's action in the slot?

yes it's purely due to martha
tex is like an NM that is actually caught up but still isn't doing things
killing tex will generate much more knowledge than NM, i can assure you of that.

Really. I find your argument to be a little unbelievable, because you were waffling on your vote for marth from the start, and you unvoted her BEFORE she was replaced.

Somehow I don't think you actually wanted her lynched at all. Maybe martha is a scum slot, and you are her scum partner. All your voting and unvoting early in the day was trying to fake interactions but not actually lynch her, and then you were happy to unvote first when she finally hit L-1.

I'm just not sure if you have changed your mind and decided to bus her, or if you are planning to unvote again when the wagon gets bigger.

VOTE: zyf

Actually, if zyf is scum it's because he is busing.

VOTE: texcat

what the fuck is this

thor please get on the wagon

[Zyf]

Really liking karnos for scum here, throwing shade everywhere basically while doing jack

So, if you don't accuse anyone, you aren't doing any AI, and you must be scum.

But if you are scum hunting, and throwing out accusations, you must be scum because you are "throwing shade".

I don't like this line of thinking from you, it seems like you are crafting an argument so you can call a person scum no matter what they do.

wtf
look at yourself
you're repeatedly trying to push shitty logic on me and yet are conveniently voting the biggest wagon
bruh

[Zyf]

The difference I see is that martha was trying to defend herself, poorly, while NM seems to not even care at all. That pushes him down a bit in my reads, but I'd agree that either of them are lynchable. It just annoys me that we have already had the martha/texcat slot at L-1 for a good bit of time to gather useful information, while certain people seem afraid or unwilling to put NM at L-1.

Here here.

Players are calling each other out in this game for not contributing, but they'll turn a blind eye to NM because it's just how he plays. For the good of site-meta, why aren't we lynching him!? If you want MS to be flooded with players who intentionally prod dodge and do nothing to help town, then by all means, give NM a pass. If you want a mafia forum that doesn't put up with this nonsense, then start not putting up with this nonsense.

Also, say goodbye to Loopdan.

I will be playing as "Not_Loopdan" until one of Not_Mafia or Loopdan is lynched. That means you can expect another post from me in 47 hours and 52 minutes.

*hear hear

anyway
N_M is not AI, and will most likely get replaced eventually (whether by player complaint or some other means)
Meanwhile, we have scumfucks surrounding us that will actually respond to pressure.

You put N_M at L-1, ask them to contribute properly, lynch them, and then watch them flip either town or scum

if they're town, congratulations, you've accomplished absolutely nothing except sacrificed another player's life.
If they're scum...then what? what do you get out of that? The whole discussion surrounding them is THEORY-based. Which means it's unreliable.

[Harkonnen97]

BBT sorry if I have been rude. But you can be a bit too much close-minded at times.