Mini Normal 1825 - Game Over

[Chuck]

Ryan, the thing you were supposed to see that you missed was that the Martha flip makes me look bad as well. So me saying that it makes expedience look bad, is immaterial, for purposes of reading my alignment. Or as new scummer a would say, it's NAI.

To answer your "how?"s:

Martha dying made me look bad because she was the one that I suspected the most coming into today besides Expedience. And after she died all I could do was point at Expedience.
It made Expedience look bad because she had expressed suspicion of have a number of times and it looked like a kill meant to silence her.

As for how Glitch flipping town makes Expedience look bad, it's because he basically single-handedly drove that wagon directly into a mislynch.

Also his argument against to me was based entirely on me being too sure that Glitch was town, when 1) Glitch had already made some very alignment indicative statements after his hammer had gone through, and 2) all I said was "if Glitch flips town", which means he was blowing it way out of proportion just to have a reason to suspect me.

I'm not sure how you're not seeing any of this, or why I'm having to spoonfeed you.
It's like you're playing dumb, pretending not to see things that are really obvious.

If you're actually town, no offense. If you're scum, please pick a different strategy than feigned incompetence, because it is starting to get on my nerves, and I'm a really patient person.

[Chuck]

I just finished reading rb versus BBT over the last five pages.

Cliff's

Chuck's Notes:
- They both come across as petty and pedantic.
- BBT is on the defensive, and only after three pages or so does rb look like he's flagging.
- Highly doubt it's either scum vs scum. Probably not town vs town.
- Both of them would fit as a scum buddy of Expedience, but BBT would fit better.
- Due to rb asking me to compromise with him on BBT, and then he would compromise with me on expedience tomorrow, he comes across looking townier than BBT in the end.

As for that proposal rb... you got your preferred lynch yesterday in Glitch, and it was wrong. So why should I compromise when Expedience is still running around and you're picking on BBT, a relative non-entity? You should compromise with me, not the other way around. Clearly I have far more experience than you anyway, and you should trust that. Perhaps the only reason I'm not dead at this very second is because there was a power role soft claim. And if I'm wrong and you're the scum with Expedience, and BBT is town, then having you and Expedience alive tomorrow, and me and BBT both dead, sounds like a pretty sweet deal for you guys.

So, what's in it for me, if I compromise? Literally zilch.

[Chuck]

Saru, Dierfire, pitoli, and Cass, what do you think about:

1. MathBlade?
2. rb vs. BBT?
3. Expedience?

[Accountant]

VC 2.8

MathBlade (3)

: BlueBloodedToffee, Expedience, Dierfire

Expedience (2):

Chuck, Cass

BlueBloodedToffee (2)

: MathBlade, rb

Cass (1)

: pitoli

Dierfire (1):

Saru

Chuck (1):

RyanK

Not Voting:

House

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-09-23 14:00:30)

House replaces gameplay506. Welcome House!

[rb]

@Ryan in the game I linked of BBT's ISO I townread Accountant from Day 1 purely because "it looks like town Accountant" and never explained beyond that. Newbie 1727. On phone during lunch break so no time to go link it.

[rb]

I did the same in Newbie 1723 as well, there was 1 or 2 slots I just said were town and I left them there. I also did it in Gistou (large theme) where I had 3-4 townreads because they 'felt' town and I didn't elaborate.

[MathBlade]

I can compromise on Expedience but I think knowing if I am dealing with an RB team or BBT team outweighs that. I have a gut town read on RB based on Gistou and I don't see a reason to change it.

[MathBlade]

Meaning BBT is the much better lynch today IMHO.

Chuck said it himself he doesn't see it as TvT or SvS so which scum it is helps a lot.

[House]

Hello all.

<3 Pi

[MathBlade]

Hi House.

<3 You too but this post gives me the creeps.

[House]

(one mentioned example, expressing suspicion of Naomi-Tan in 88 for mentioning Daytalk, works well as an illustration of what I mean--I would expect a Mafia player to actually check how Naomi-Tan knew this information before making the vote).

Why would a newbie mafia ask town how they knew the information when they already know that town can't know it except by the op since that player is not scum?

Experienced scum might be more likely to ask, in order to cover their own ass, but newbscum are more prone to tripping up on their own knowledge.

[House]

Hi House.

<3 You too but this post gives me the creeps.

Alrighty then.

[House]

Besides playstle, communication, logic, arguments made, associations, and just plain gut feeling which isn’t reliable, what are you supposed to look for that I am not getting?

Motive.

Are reads, however terrible, sincere? Do they change organically? Does the player stand to personally gain from shifting their stance?

These are all much more reliable indicators of scum than "tells".

Anything scum can do, town can do better.
Anything town can do, scum can do too.

[RyanK]

Ryan, the thing you were supposed to see that you missed was that the Martha flip makes me look bad as well. So me saying that it makes expedience look bad, is immaterial, for purposes of reading my alignment. Or as new scummer a would say, it's NAI.

To answer your "how?"s:

Martha dying made me look bad because she was the one that I suspected the most coming into today besides Expedience. And after she died all I could do was point at Expedience.
...

It's completely illogical that scum would want to night-kill a scum read as they have a really high chance of being able to mislynch them.

...
It made Expedience look bad because she had expressed suspicion of have a number of times and it looked like a kill meant to silence her.
...

As I said, Vedith killed 0x40 and stated it was an attempt by Vaxkiller to silence 0x40. Vedith was scum and I think I can expect the same from this.

...
As for how Glitch flipping town makes Expedience look bad, it's because he basically single-handedly drove that wagon directly into a mislynch.

Also his argument against to me was based entirely on me being too sure that Glitch was town, when 1) Glitch had already made some very alignment indicative statements after his hammer had gone through, and 2) all I said was "if Glitch flips town", which means he was blowing it way out of proportion just to have a reason to suspect me.
...

1)What were they?
2)That looks like fact.

...
I'm not sure how you're not seeing any of this, or why I'm having to spoonfeed you.
It's like you're playing dumb, pretending not to see things that are really obvious.
...

I really didn't see it.

...
If you're actually town, no offense. If you're scum, please pick a different strategy than feigned incompetence, because it is starting to get on my nerves, and I'm a really patient person.

But factually, I really don't know what to think about this any more. UNVOTE:

[MathBlade]

Personal gain isn't always indicative of scum though. It is indicative of personal gain. It becomes whether than gain is Town PR oriented or Scum oriented and is usually the latter but sometimes the former.

Town players can be scummy and scummy players can be townie. It is one of the reasons I setup spec a lot because if you know certain things exist eg I am a VT then that influences votes.

[House]

Personal gain isn't always indicative of scum though. It is indicative of personal gain. It becomes whether than gain is Town PR oriented or Scum oriented and is usually the latter but sometimes the former.

Town players can be scummy and scummy players can be townie. It is one of the reasons I setup spec a lot because if you know certain things exist eg I am a VT then that influences votes.

Refer to the first word in the past you are responding to.

You basically said the same thing I did. Thanks.

[MathBlade]

Ryan, the thing you were supposed to see that you missed was that the Martha flip makes me look bad as well. So me saying that it makes expedience look bad, is immaterial, for purposes of reading my alignment. Or as new scummer a would say, it's NAI.

To answer your "how?"s:

Martha dying made me look bad because she was the one that I suspected the most coming into today besides Expedience. And after she died all I could do was point at Expedience.
...

It's completely illogical that scum would want to night-kill a scum read as they have a really high chance of being able to mislynch them.

...
It made Expedience look bad because she had expressed suspicion of have a number of times and it looked like a kill meant to silence her.
...

As I said, Vedith killed 0x40 and stated it was an attempt by Vaxkiller to silence 0x40. Vedith was scum and I think I can expect the same from this.

...
As for how Glitch flipping town makes Expedience look bad, it's because he basically single-handedly drove that wagon directly into a mislynch.

Also his argument against to me was based entirely on me being too sure that Glitch was town, when 1) Glitch had already made some very alignment indicative statements after his hammer had gone through, and 2) all I said was "if Glitch flips town", which means he was blowing it way out of proportion just to have a reason to suspect me.
...

1)What were they?
2)That looks like fact.

...
I'm not sure how you're not seeing any of this, or why I'm having to spoonfeed you.
It's like you're playing dumb, pretending not to see things that are really obvious.
...

I really didn't see it.

...
If you're actually town, no offense. If you're scum, please pick a different strategy than feigned incompetence, because it is starting to get on my nerves, and I'm a really patient person.

But factually, I really don't know what to think about this any more. UNVOTE:

Incorrect on paragraph one. A scumread by scum means they want the player gone and don't have to kill them. If they can mislynch a BP player rather than shoot them that is power to them.

Driving is only one of the kinds of champions of a lynch though. Granted I think Expedience is scum but he who smelt it dealt it is also a thing.

[House]

Personal gain isn't always indicative of scum though. It is indicative of personal gain. It becomes whether than gain is Town PR oriented or Scum oriented and is usually the latter but sometimes the former.

Town players can be scummy and scummy players can be townie. It is one of the reasons I setup spec a lot because if you know certain things exist eg I am a VT then that influences votes.

Refer to the first word in the

past

post you are responding to.

You basically said the same thing I did. Thanks.

EBWOP

[House]

MathBlade, since you're around where should I start ISOing for a decent bead on things? Reading 75+ pages ain't happening. You know me.

[MathBlade]

BBT and RB especially the recent fight. One of which I think is town and the other scum.

Also ISO chuck for my sanity. My towndar is going off miles on him so much so it is approaching I am scared of buddying territory.

Lastly Experience is probably scum.

I really wish you would stop not reading on replace in though.

[House]

BBT and RB especially the recent fight. One of which I think is town and the other scum.

Also ISO chuck for my sanity. My towndar is going off miles on him so much so it is approaching I am scared of buddying territory.

Lastly Experience is probably scum.

I really wish you would stop not reading on replace in though.

I'm trying, really i am. 75 pages, though?

I'll look into those three and your slot, then work backwards from there.

Thanks!

[MathBlade]

Lol 4 and me. Boo House cmon and count.

BBT RB Chuck Expedience.

[MathBlade]

Driving home.

[House]

Lol 4 and me. Boo House cmon and count.

BBT RB Chuck Expedience.

Math is your shtick. Not mine. I can only count to purple.

[House]

And before I start reading ISOs, I want it known for the record that BBT is probscum because he's in the game.